This has been a Hairspray reference
"Bring onnnn that pecan piiiiiiiiiiie" still randomly pops into my head on a regular basis all these years later.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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"Bring onnnn that pecan piiiiiiiiiiie" still randomly pops into my head on a regular basis all these years later.
Adulfzen
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Sounds like a huge waste of money, keep both the games and other media production as far away as possible from each as possible. Trying to coordinate those projects together sounds like a recipe for sloppily rushing games so they release at the same timing as tv shows or movies.
Also where does the indication of a cinematic universe come from, there is only been one movie so far.
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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I’m interested to see future analysis of why the CPU load is so high and if there are any optimizations that could help.
Ok. Which one of you wrote this?
Posted on a fake 4chan leak thread
ziggyrivers
thunder
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D
Deleted member 5146
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I'm not sure if it would be, since they already have voice talent retained for many of their properties it wouldn't be a leap to transfer those onto the animated projects or vice versa
Furukawa and Miyamoto have both spoken publicly about future films, with Miyamoto strongly hinting numerous other films are in the pre-production stage while the voice cast of Super Mario Bros. are already known to have been negotiating multi-contract deals for various spin-offs over the last few months
I have no doubt the Switch 2 gaming era will be complemented by various feature-length and web series projects coordinated around the development and launch of the flagship titles
Even Astro's Playroom looks fantastic.
D
Deleted member 645
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What people have to understand about these types of things is the developers in prioritizing pushing the limits. That doesn’t mean the switch or a less capable PC couldn’t run this game. It’s up to the developers. In this day and age for anyone to believe x game can’t run on a less powerful machine is beyond me. If the developer wants to make the game and optimize it for certain specs they can.
D36
I stand proud, because I can cook!
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Where did you get the whole cinematic universe thing from? A Zelda movie from Illumination hasn't been confirmed to even exist yet and they've shut down that rumor that sprung up a few months ago (it could be corporate speak, because they're not just going to up front confirm a rumor like that, but still).
TomNookYankees
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Why would anyone get their hopes up for BG3 on Switch NG when the game ended up a PS5 exclusive on consoles because of performance issues on Series S?
D36
I stand proud, because I can cook!
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Yeah, we don't need another Pokemon situation.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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That is entirely due to split-screen multiplayer support, and Larian is obligated to ship feature-identical versions to both Series consoles. No such restriction on Switch.
That's only because of split screen on Series S. They cut split screen on Divinity OS2 on Switch and they would here again
Smash Kirby
Bob-omb
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It runs on Steam Deck.
Most likely fake,
I don't think Nintendo of Japan would keep Nintendo of America, and Nintendo of Europe out of the loop when it comes to development of next gen consoles, software, and other corporate decisions.
it's not like they can anyway. no major product launch is regional anymore
Exactly,
That 4chan post made my head hurt...it reminded me of the civil war between Sega of America and Sega of Japan where they had both completely different visions on how to market their consoles...
Dekuman
Gerudo
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I am sure that's not real either but there is always an outside chance the hardware misses 2024 for various reasons, including software not being ready.
I sincerely hope they don't miss it as it feels like they will lose too much momentum if they wait for 2025, but that is a possibility and we have to be prepared for that curve ball.
Indeed.
Even if there was market interest and the tech was there, there's no way to make a device that would fully satisfy both VR and handheld experiences.
Screens are completely different, in resolution, aspect ratio, refresh rate, etc.
Optimizing towards VR would hinder handheld and/or make it needlessly more expensive.
I'd rather have a great handheld first, preferably without gimmicks.
I believe 3D mario was in the works since Odyssey. maybe even Bowser's Fury was a test of changes. so there's ample time.
maybe
Shoulder
Paratroopa
We probably have different meanings in terms of huge leap in graphics horsepower. The issue I have is in terms of say resolution, we went from 480p to 720p, and in some cases that same era, 1080p. Then because of marketing, there was this avoidance for 1440p, and instead go with 4K (aka 2160p). So we went from say a 2-2.5x resolution increase with newer gen consoles to a massive 4x increase. On top of that, higher frame rates beyond 60fps are knocking on the door more often rather than always sticking with 60fps, or even a humble 30fps.
All these increases in resolution, and frame rate cut into developers’ overhead regarding graphical fidelity. Looks great, don’t get me wrong, but it’s also partly why we’re not seeing the gains in raw graphics we’re used to seeing.
So for Switch 2, if it outputs 4K 60fps for some of its games, whether native, or DLSS, we’re not going to get games that’ll look that much better than say Mario Odyssey, or Zelda TOTK because all the additional horsepower is going towards higher frame rates, and resolution.
You said Drake is 6x more powerful than Tegra x1 broadly speaking. So take Zelda TOTK, output at 4K or close to it, and make it 60fps. That’s about as good as you’ll get in terms of native resolution. Tack on DLSS though, then you might get some discernible difference.
I’d like to be wrong though, but that’s how I see it happening as of right now. As we get closer to everything being known of Switch 2, I may change my time.
That’s why I said “up to 4K”
Foltzie
Uncle Muji
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Agreed,
It's possible that NoA and NoE don't yet know about specific details, especially around things like final name (heck most folks at Apple didn't know the name of Vision Pro until the Cook said it during the keynote).
However, these days NoE and NoA would be much more engaged in console development than decades back. NoE developing emulators, NoA being the business customer face for North American developers, etc certainly implies that there must been more engagement related to hardware/software development, not less.
Folks outside of the C-level positions and selected folks in finance and engineering wouldn't know things like targeted price anyway. It simply isn't relevant for most folks working at Nintendo in any capacity.
This is all very high level of course, but until things are needed to be shared with marketing to prep things like announcement videos, things like price and name are highly unlikely to leak.
HankyPanky
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yeah maybe he's already recorded all his lines for the next 3D Mario which should be deep in development. could be his last game.
Nintendo Confirms Charles Martinet Is Not Involved in Super Mario Bros. Wonder - IGN
Following the news that he will be "stepping back" from voicing Nintendo characters, Nintendo has confirmed to IGN that original Mario voice actor Charles Martinet will not be involved in Super Mario Bros. Wonder.
that's all assuming the devs actually want to hit 2160p and 60fps. all these are choices and as generations go on, they don't target one or both of these more and more. hell, with dynamic res and upscaling, few are even trying to hit native 2160p. this will be the case for Drake as well. don't be surprised if there's a lot of 1080p output and 30fps games from third partiesWe probably have different meanings in terms of huge leap in graphics horsepower. The issue I have is in terms of say resolution, we went from 480p to 720p, and in some cases that same era, 1080p. Then because of marketing, there was this avoidance for 1440p, and instead go with 4K (aka 2160p). So we went from say a 2-2.5x resolution increase with newer gen consoles to a massive 4x increase. On top of that, higher frame rates beyond 60fps are knocking on the door more often rather than always sticking with 60fps, or even a humble 30fps.
All these increases in resolution, and frame rate cut into developers’ overhead regarding graphical fidelity. Looks great, don’t get me wrong, but it’s also partly why we’re not seeing the gains in raw graphics we’re used to seeing.
So for Switch 2, if it outputs 4K 60fps for some of its games, whether native, or DLSS, we’re not going to get games that’ll look that much better than say Mario Odyssey, or Zelda TOTK because all the additional horsepower is going towards higher frame rates, and resolution.
You said Drake is 6x more powerful than Tegra x1 broadly speaking. So take Zelda TOTK, output at 4K or close to it, and make it 60fps. That’s about as good as you’ll get in terms of native resolution. Tack on DLSS though, then you might get some discernible difference.
I’d like to be wrong though, but that’s how I see it happening as of right now. As we get closer to everything being known of Switch 2, I may change my time.
That’s why I said “up to 4K”
Giancarlo
Nintendo intulit risum in omnibus
that a linear way to design games
Shoulder
Paratroopa
Very true, and a good point. I do anticipate dynamic resolution plus upscaling to be a hugely used feature for Switch 2 (aka DLSS).
As a side note, I’m curious if Nintendo will have a 120hz option for certain titles. Not necessarily for handheld as I don’t see the screen to be 120hz, but for docked mode it would be cool. Because bandwidth wise, I see nothing that would limit them on that front besides an artificial limitation.
In fact, is it possible through Homebrew to force a 120hz mode on the Switch in docked mode? Or is there a bandwidth limitation for it?
Teal'c
Boo
Yes, I'm not completely sold on this either, but assuming there will be a gimmick, maybe Nintendo and Nvidia made a little deal to advertise the DLSS?
Sometimes I think of this small (remote) possibility
mjayer
Bob-omb
1080 to 2160p is a 2x jump
720p to 2160p is a 3x jump
So no 4x increase...
I think your correct, for the most part, in your assessment here... however I believe for this exact reason Nintendo won't be targeting 4k/60 for ANY of their new tentpole titles. Some may be 1440p/60fp and some may be 4k/30. Either of those, combined with Nintendos attention to gameplay, amazing artstyle, and the accompanying bump in lighting and detail...it's gonna wow.
You'll probably see ports that do the 4k/60fp and little else improvement. I bet you'll even see 3rd party ports that are around 720p/30 WITH DLSS! Can't wait.
mjayer
Bob-omb
Hmm I'm wrong aren't I?
A 720p screen is rocking about 1 million pixels.
A 1080 screen is rocking about 2 million pixels.
A 4k screen is rocking an incredible 8.2 million pixels.
So...
1080p to 2160p = 4.1x
720p to 2160p = 8.2x
That's crazy yaw.
Edit: And this is why DLSS is the hot sauce.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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I don’t think this is true. 1080p to 2160p is 2x in one dimension, but 4x the pixels overall.
BDGAME
"The Baby"
Baldur's Gate 3 is running pretty good on Steam Deck, no? for the rumors, the CPU on Drake will not be weaker than the Deck.
kvetcha
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Act III is the pain point. Act I seems to run fine, but it’s heavily optimized due to early access.
no, it's a 4x increase and a 9x increase respectively
GamerJM
Chain Chomp
When we say things like "NoA," who do we actually mean? Like, a lot of different people work at NoA. Maybe the higher ups know but not people in, say, localization.
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If they were to port Odyssey they could have it render at the same resolution and frame rate, use DLSS to increase resolution to whatever makes sense for 60fps, and still have the vast majority of system resources free for improvement.
Anything that goes from 30 to 60, yeah, that's going to cost.
Marty, you're not thinking two-dimensionally!
Lancelot
Koopa
Nintendo literally isn't going to target those amounts anytime soon, let alone enforce them to anyone. There will be Switch ports and stuff running on native 4K (perhaps 60 FPS), but remember this is not a Pro version and it's going to get exclusive games utilizing the hardware much better over pushing an ancient Switch engine to get those targets. Besides, the whole point of my previous reply was to tell you those 6x figures are not conclusive and the actual hardware will be pushing significantly above those in real world scenarios.We probably have different meanings in terms of huge leap in graphics horsepower. The issue I have is in terms of say resolution, we went from 480p to 720p, and in some cases that same era, 1080p. Then because of marketing, there was this avoidance for 1440p, and instead go with 4K (aka 2160p). So we went from say a 2-2.5x resolution increase with newer gen consoles to a massive 4x increase. On top of that, higher frame rates beyond 60fps are knocking on the door more often rather than always sticking with 60fps, or even a humble 30fps.
All these increases in resolution, and frame rate cut into developers’ overhead regarding graphical fidelity. Looks great, don’t get me wrong, but it’s also partly why we’re not seeing the gains in raw graphics we’re used to seeing.
So for Switch 2, if it outputs 4K 60fps for some of its games, whether native, or DLSS, we’re not going to get games that’ll look that much better than say Mario Odyssey, or Zelda TOTK because all the additional horsepower is going towards higher frame rates, and resolution.
You said Drake is 6x more powerful than Tegra x1 broadly speaking. So take Zelda TOTK, output at 4K or close to it, and make it 60fps. That’s about as good as you’ll get in terms of native resolution. Tack on DLSS though, then you might get some discernible difference.
I’d like to be wrong though, but that’s how I see it happening as of right now. As we get closer to everything being known of Switch 2, I may change my time.
That’s why I said “up to 4K”
In any case, you're still not going to get those insane native resolutions in Switch 2 because there's no point in doing so anymore. Not even PS5 is doing that, the average Switch 2 game will be rendering internally in 720p and below for DLSS to upscale it to whatever Nintendo wants, that's what its parallels with the Series S tend to indicate. If you're only thinking of huge leaps by native resolution and framerate, you've been seeing Gen 9 all wrong.
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Shoulder
Paratroopa
Yeah. It’s pretty crazy how the jumps in resolution go.
8K for example is not a double in pixels, but a 4x increase over 4K. That means 8K is a 16x increase in pixels over 1080p.
And for shits and giggles, 16k resolution is 4x over 8K, which means it’s a 64x resolution increase over 1080p just to put things into perspective.
You can see why technologies like DLSS/FSR/XeSS are so crucial I think in this day and age.
And we haven’t even gotten into super high frame rates.
60 fps? 120fps? Pfft.
240hz displays have been around for awhile, but 360, even 480hz monitors are showing up now. But I believe 360, and 480hz displays are only at 1080p (maybe 1440p for the former). There are 4K displays at 240hz now, which is crazy bonkers since I don’t even think an RTX 4090 can run any brand new game at that many frames. You’d probably have to go back a few years. I think Doom Eternal can now run at full max settings with Ray tracing at 4K240 with the right hardware. And I think 8K60 is possible now since the RTX 3090.
We aren’t so much limited in raw graphics fidelity these days. It’s limited in resolution, and frame rates.
the people I assume they're talking about aren't technically part of NoA and NoE. NERD, NST, and NTD all report to NCL rather than NoA/NoE. that said higher ups at the regional branches are involved as they need to give input on how marketing will be, focus testing, and acting as liaisons to other important developers
kvetcha
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It's a shocking amount of required data throughput
Kise Ryota
Then I'll say "I told ya"
If Nintendo decides to try with VR again, I don't think it would be in this way. I can see them reusing assets from those games (like zelda botw/totk, 3D marios, the next mario kart, etc) as well as the engines (with tweaks), but all to build new - and smaller - experiences (yes, VR has been - at its most part - about these 'experiences' for a long time...)
For that, I believe the Switch 2 will have enough power to deal with any idea Nintendo want to implement. They won't simply try to run the next AAA Zelda in VR... that's impossible, of course. But a "spin-off" of those games reusing engine and assets to speed up development (and reducing costs considerably) is very possible IMO, and the hardware will be just enough.
Also, depending on how they decide to approuch VR (if even), they can offer a very accessible experience in terms of price for Switch 2 owners. Making it easier to jump in (at a cost stand point) and having some appeling experiences for those seeking for something different (mario kart would be the best one IMO, but a Luigi's Mansion VR would also be really fun I believe), I think they could bild a healthy base to develop their VR ideas without taking big risks financially speaking.
Oh, and I think they could use games like Metroid Prime to make it full VR. It's a game that Switch 2 would run at 90fps with a 2k resolution per eye without breaking a sweat.
Anyway, VR would be just a bonus for those with a Switch 2, just like it is on a PS5. The big difference between these two could be that on Switch 2 customers could have a really small entry price.
LLMs can't actually do any of that. They're just gibberish generators. The gibberish is of pretty high quality, but using it directly in contexts where information is expected would be grossly negligent (yes, I know people do this. Yes, I judge them for it). On top of that, there's not a whole ton of point in making something like that a "system" feature if it's not actually running on the hardware.
If you think "AI" is the only possible marketable gimmick, then you lack imagination. These consoles are meant to last for a while, and trend chasing is unlikely to produce something with lasting appeal.
I mean the point is they don't actually move on that quickly. Not all at once. Most of their bigger titles are likely to make the jump fairly early, but Nintendo is a very prolific publisher with a pretty wide variety of games. I see little reason to doubt that games targeting Switch 1 will continue to release into at least 2026 or 2027 given Nintendo's history.
D
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Yes, of course. At least sometimes. DLSS is neither free nor perfect, otherwise every game would be 4k all the time.
Some games will be particularly prone to DLSS artifacting. Sonic Frontiers is probably a good example - DLSS's weaknesses are fast movement, foliage, particle effects.
Some games will have tight GPU budgets. DLSS is much cheaper than native resolution, but it isn't free - and the cost goes up as the output resolution does. Some games may choose to have more effects - higher quality shadows/reflections/particle density/motion blur - at a lower upscale rather than a lower quality image at a higher upscale.
As for "dumb upscales" - 1080p integer scales on a 4k screen - it might not give you new details like DLSS does, but it also produces no errors. We tend to knock IQ around like it's an objective measurement, but there are preferential tradeoffs here. Ports will likely handle DLSS like they would any other rendering feature, adjusting all the dials at their disposal till they land at an acceptable presentation. Sometimes that will be 4k, sometimes it won't
Nintendo's first party approach is a little more unclear. There have been no "native" DLSS games ever made, where DLSS 2 is the exclusive rendering path. I suspect that they'll target the prettiest 1080p presentation they can at their target frame rate, then apply whatever DLSS scaling they can afford after. But also, despite not releasing any games using it yet, Nintendo's tech teams have been at least experimenting with DLSS 2 longer than just about any other game developer. I'm curious about their approach
Lancelot
Koopa
How many games are left to target Switch 1 since the start, though? That's the real question here, since we don't really know what's left in the tank just yet. Once that backlog is ran over, Nintendo's history indicates they won't keep making anything for it period, even if subsequent releases could technically run on it. I'd say it all depends on how strong the original Switch remains after the successor has been unveiled.
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Nintendo was publishing 3DS games into 2019, and probably would have continued had the sales not evaporated. In Japan, they basically kept publishing games for SNES for close to the entire life of the N64.
Like I said, if the audience is there and they have the development capacity, they tend to just keep going. Don't let their underperforming home consoles or the heavily troubled Wii/DS -> Wii U/3DS transition confuse you.
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SoldierDelta
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Going based on past Nintendo logic... honestly the Switch 1 having no more releases on launch day of the NG Switch is entirely possible.
That being said, I don't think it's wise for Nintendo to do it, especially if they've got BC in the Switch 2. Less demanding games running on the base Switch and the NG Switch would be a good move for them. What defines "less demanding" may be a bit vague, but i'm mostly operating out of hope here tbh.
Lancelot
Koopa
Yeah... It's admittedly a problem when most of their transitions in modern history have been next to terrible. Ultimately I agree, Switch should have no issues staying relevant after the successor is out in the wild, only a 3DS tier evaporation could force Nintendo to burn that bridge entirely.
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