StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

[Giancarlo]

I think one of the worst possible names could also be extremely effective.

What if it's called

Nintendo Switch.

Just Nintendo Switch. (Second Generation) in brackets when the differences need to be pointed out. The Nintendo Switch (2nd Gen).

i getting Wii U vibes for this and this dont sound good

 

[Concernt]

let hope Switch sucessor is a true next gen hardware/sucessor to Nintendo istead of a Pro console, like the VGC report seem to sugest

The difference is immaterial. A "pro" type system with a 1080p screen and a Tegra T239 is a generational leap.

 

[Concernt]

i getting Wii U vibes for this and this dont sound good

 

[AxkilAvenger]

Nintendo Vision

This is a very good name.
If I heard it as a customer, I’d immediately think this device must have some sort of virtual reality business going on

 

[D36]

I think one of the worst possible names could also be extremely effective.

What if it's called

Nintendo Switch.

Just Nintendo Switch. (Second Generation) in brackets when the differences need to be pointed out. The Nintendo Switch (2nd Gen).

Nintendo Switch: 2nd Gig

 

[NateDrake]

lol so we get hype videos and collabs now for Switch 2. Wild.

Not really. It's mostly a creator sharing that they'll give a Switch 2 rumor this weekend on their show -- which is how they relayed it to me. They told me they had a rumor to share and that it may be of interest to MVG and myself as a talking point for next week. Prime will simply cover what the other individual shares. Whether the information is meaningful or not is something we'll soon find out.

 

[OctoSplattack]

Just give it to me straight, fami.

The Nintendo Switch has games. Will the Switch NG have games?

 

[TheSentry]

That was NVN2, the API for the next Switch.

Ahhh yes, thank you! At the least, we see one invested party using a “2” to signify the next generation of something related to the next console.

Interesting none the less.

 

[Catsylvania]

Just give it to me straight, fami.

The Nintendo Switch has games. Will the Switch NG have games?

No. There are no games; only Zuul.

 

[TheSentry]

let hope Switch sucessor is a true next gen hardware/sucessor to Nintendo istead of a Pro console, like the VGC report seem to sugest

I didn’t take the VGC report to mean the NG Switch is just a Pro-like console.

Between VGC and the Nvidia leak, I take the NG Switch to be the equivalent of PS4 to PS5, not PS4 to PS4Pro.

I don’t think VGC was suggesting it was just a small Pro type upgrade at all.

 

[Shoulder]

But are you on the side of WHEELS or capacitive pressure sensitive shoulder buttons?

#TeamCapacitance

There's nothing mechanically wrong with the mouse wheel, so why change it? It's a tried and true method.

Nintendo will name the device something to communicate the offering to consumers. They've not nailed it every time, but they've tried.

I expect Nintendo to introduce some new hardware mechanics this gen, and I expect the name to reflect it.

Wonder if it'll be some awkward naming scheme like the Switch Flip because they're "Flipping the script" on what they normally do in terms of sequel platforms. Or take a cue from the NES, and call it the Nintendo Switch Entertainment System.

That said, given how Nintendo understands how successful Apple is with the iPhone, it only makes sense to keep the naming scheme simple. Apple went from the iPhone to the iPhone 3G in order to communicate that it had 3G connectivity. It was simple, yet effective. Then it was the iPhone 3GS, and then the iPhone 4. They just kept the numbers, but made it clear it was new.

It would make a case for Nintendo to make it simply the Switch 4K, though at the same time, you don't want to convey the wrong message that it can do 4K on both docked, and handheld, because only the former could do that.

"The Nintendo Switch 2: You were expecting Die Hard 2, but in fact it's Aliens."

The tech used to do the screen mirroring on Wii U was pretty expensive at the time, so I do wonder if it has become cheaper or if a different cheaper technology exist to accomplish the same thing is available that could be included into the dock. The meat and potatoes of what makes Switch so popular is its hybrid nature, and I believe that will still be the case with SNG. However, just like Switch has various features that are there is a developer wants to implement them, they arent forced because the whole system concept doesnt revolves around a feature. No one thinks of Switch as a motion control gaming platform, but Switch Sports is obviously a direct evolution from the Wii's most popular game with Wii Sports, and thanks to the motions controls being included, it was possible to bring Switch Sports to market. That's a long way of saying that its certainly possible Nintendo will implement asymmetrical gameplay with SNG, but it will be a feature for the new system rather than the focus. Motion controls aren't the focus with Switch, but we have Switch Sports. Asymmetrical gameplay wouldn't be the focus for SNG, but perhaps Nintendo Land Deluxe is possible on the new console thanks to additional streaming technology.

It does make me wonder if Nintendo would consider going down that road again, but flip the tech from the Gamepad to the Dock. It would certainly allow DS games, but it is also currently possible to play DS games on the Wii U without the Gamepad if I remember correctly.

Maybe a month or so ago, I suggested that Nintendo could offer a controller holder for the Switch where the hardware is mounted vertically instead of horizontally. Turns out, there actually is a product that does just that called the Flip Grip.

Sure, it doesn't do you any good for docked gameplay, but it would work in the same vain as the 2DS does.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Maybe a month or so ago, I suggested that Nintendo could offer a controller holder for the Switch where the hardware is mounted vertically instead of horizontally. Turns out, there actually is a product that does just that called the Flip Grip.

Sure, it doesn't do you any good for docked gameplay, but it would work in the same vain as the 2DS does.

It'd be incredibly niche, which is why Nintendo would just let a third party make it. They don't disallow vertical mode games, so a couple do take advantage of it

 

[The Competition]

let hope Switch sucessor is a true next gen hardware/sucessor to Nintendo istead of a Pro console, like the VGC report seem to sugest

If anything I feel like the VGC report indicates a true next gen. A pro model would never go backwards from OLED to LCD. The only reason they'd go LCD is to cut costs, meaning that the LCD system is trying to be as mass market as possible, and not just a niche premium product for enthusiasts, which is what a pro would be

I wouldn't worry about just a "Pro", not from any of the evidence we have, and especially not from the VGC report.

 

[Shoulder]

It'd be incredibly niche, which is why Nintendo would just let a third party make it. They don't disallow vertical mode games, so a couple do take advantage of it

A bit more than a couple actually...

https://www.doesitflip.com/

 

[ShaunSwitch]

I'm thinking with the Mario movie doing great Nintendo may want to add more media services for you to WATCH content on and expand on that aspect of the switch.

So we have a system for games and watching content.

Why not a simple name that encapsulates that simplicity?

Nintendo Game and Watch.

 

[Concernt]

There's nothing mechanically wrong with the mouse wheel, so why change it? It's a tried and true method.

That's untrue, so there's plenty of reason to change it!

A mouse wheel is a textured mechanical device that exits and enters the electronic device that polls it, so any finger gunk or dust on it gets pushed into the device and can stop it from working. Furthermore, since it would have to act as a shoulder button, you risk the button slipping out from under your fingers when just trying to press it without scrolling it.

A capacitive, pressure sensitive button provides multiple benefits. No additional moving parts, no parts that enter the device, smaller and thus easier to integrate, allow for the same input as scrolling shoulder buttons AND other inputs, like up and down flicks, or very light touch detection for a hair-trigger-like response. Meanwhile pressure sensitivity would allow for an additional level of sensing. It can simulate analogue trigger input without taking up valuable space inside a Joy-Con-like controller. All while preserving the current default digital click!

Why use scroll wheels when there's so much wrong with them, and capacitive response can offer the same input opportunities AND MORE?

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Yet here we are.

So let's discuss the implications of the codename being NX2 and/or NSW2. From the start, this device has been envisioned as simply the next Nintendo Switch. Nintendo Switch, but more. And I'm quite excited to see how that pans out.

Yeah no, I find that discussion to be ultimately pointless and have no energy to even bother with it. It’ll be named something and I’ll end up buying it regardless. It’s a new generation console with a new catalog of games ready to flow into it, and it offers a tangible enough difference in performance that makes it worth it for the next 7 years.



I’ll bring something else instead.

I present to you all, the ODIN2:

All of these use the SnapDragon 8 Gen 2, difference being the amount of storage and RAM.

The reason I bring this up is that these are sold for profit and they have solid margins for these portable devices.

(observe the retail price, not the early bird price)

I think in the case of Nintendo it would be in a similar spot but they would be moving an order of magnitude more units than Aya and their scale offers them a different angle to sell products and pricing.


Nintendo won’t come close to selling at the same margins as these portable PCs, and they have slimmer margins unless they want a 3DS2 to happen, it wouldn’t be priced incredibly high from the BoM.


(SD8G2 is manufactured at TSMC)

Edit: so I think 12GB of RAM and 256-512GB of eUFS Storage is very much possible at profit even if sold for $399.99

I’m unsure of which eUFS version though.

 

[Concernt]

Yeah no

Then why are you still here? Is waltzing in and trying to shut down discussion productive for you in some way?

 

[10k]

Yeah no, I find that discussion to be ultimately pointless and have no energy to even bother with it. It’ll be named something and I’ll end up buying it regardless. It’s a new generation console with a new catalog of games ready to flow into it, and it offers a tangible enough difference in performance that makes it worth it for the next 7 years.



I’ll bring something else instead.

I present to you all, the ODIN2:

All of these use the SnapDragon 8 Gen 2, difference being the amount of storage and RAM.

The reason I bring this up is that these are sold for profit and they have solid margins for these portable devices.

(observe the retail price, not the early bird price)

I think in the case of Nintendo it would be in a similar spot but they would be moving an order of magnitude more units than Aya and their scale offers them a different angle to sell products and pricing.


Nintendo won’t come close to selling at the same margins as these portable PCs, and they have slimmer margins unless they want a 3DS2 to happen, it wouldn’t be priced incredibly high from the BoM.


(SD8G2 is manufactured at TSMC)

When we expected new hardware in November 2022 or any of 2023, I was adamant Nintendo would need to sell at $449 to break even.

By the time Switch 2 actually comes, $399 will likely be the break even or profitable.

 

[AoiHana]

Then why are you still here? Is waltzing in and trying to shut down discussion productive for you in some way?

He’s not? He just wanted to change the subject. As long as it’s Switch 2-related, I don’t see the problem.

 

[Shoulder]

That's untrue, so there's plenty of reason to change it!

A mouse wheel is a textured mechanical device that exits and enters the electronic device that polls it, so any finger gunk or dust on it gets pushed into the device and can stop it from working. Furthermore, since it would have to act as a shoulder button, you risk the button slipping out from under your fingers when just trying to press it without scrolling it.

A capacitive, pressure sensitive button provides multiple benefits. No additional moving parts, no parts that enter the device, smaller and thus easier to integrate, allow for the same input as scrolling shoulder buttons AND other inputs, like up and down flicks, or very light touch detection for a hair-trigger-like response. Meanwhile pressure sensitivity would allow for an additional level of sensing. It can simulate analogue trigger input without taking up valuable space inside a Joy-Con-like controller. All while preserving the current default digital click!

Why use scroll wheels when there's so much wrong with them, and capacitive response can offer the same input opportunities AND MORE?

I guess I'm the lucky one who doesn't get gunk stuck in his mouse wheel? Is this actually a common issue? And I'm being serious. In the almost 30 years I've been using mice on computers, I've never had issues with gunk preventing the movement of the mouse wheel. And currently, I have a nearly 10 year old Logitech mouse at home that gets regular use, and no issues with the mouse wheel, and same with mine at work, and that typically is subjected to harsher conditions than a home.

That being said, I can see what you're getting at, especially regarding no moving parts, and potentially even a smaller footprint. There are some advantages to this approach, though given what we know of the Nintendo patent itself, it's a mechanical scroll wheel, and not some capacitive pressure sensitive button. The used a fricking Resistive touch screen for both the DS/3DS, and Wii U, and did not go the capacitive route until the Switch. If there is a scroller on the shoulder buttons, my money is on a simple mechanical wheel similar to their patent.

 

[YolkFolk]

let hope Switch sucessor is a true next gen hardware/sucessor to Nintendo istead of a Pro console, like the VGC report seem to sugest

Sounds like we’re going from PS3 Pro to PS4+.

We’re going from Red Dead Redemption to Red Dead Redemption 2 in graphical quality.

 

[Concernt]

I guess I'm the lucky one who doesn't get gunk stuck in his mouse wheel? Is this actually a common issue? And I'm being serious. In the almost 30 years I've been using mice on computers, I've never had issues with gunk preventing the movement of the mouse wheel. And currently, I have a nearly 10 year old Logitech mouse at home that gets regular use, and no issues with the mouse wheel, and same with mine at work, and that typically is subjected to harsher conditions than a home.

That being said, I can see what you're getting at, especially regarding no moving parts, and potentially even a smaller footprint. There are some advantages to this approach, though given what we know of the Nintendo patent itself, it's a mechanical scroll wheel, and not some capacitive pressure sensitive button. The used a fricking Resistive touch screen for both the DS/3DS, and Wii U, and did not go the capacitive route until the Switch. If there is a scroller on the shoulder buttons, my money is on a simple mechanical wheel similar to their patent.

A "simple" mechanical wheel is far more mechanically and electrically complex than a capacitive, pressure sensitive button.

If you want an example of gunk ruining controllers, look at Joy-Con drift...

And again, a mechanical wheel would interfere with the moment to moment, old fashioned simple digital click of the shoulder button!

(I'll also note a Funcle apparently claims that the shoulder buttons are just bigger, but didn't note anything else about them. A scroll wheel would be very, very obvious even at the moulding stage, while a capacitive part can, essentially, be glued on with no visual changes.)

 

[Concernt]

Sounds like we’re going from PS3 Pro to PS4+.

We’re going from Red Dead Redemption to Red Dead Redemption 2 in graphical quality.

More like Xbox One cut in half to PS5 cut into thirds.

 

[Concernt]

When we expected new hardware in November 2022 or any of 2023, I was adamant Nintendo would need to sell at $449 to break even.

By the time Switch 2 actually comes, $399 will likely be the break even or profitable.

We?

Hey don't rope me into 2024 just yet.

It's just a little unrevealed, it's still good, it's still good!

 

[D36]

Feels like we've exhausted every talking point we could muster up with the many scraps of information we've gathered over the years. Might as well wait and pray we get some leaks after Gamescom or if that summer announcement that Grubb's been speculating on is the big 2nd Gig reveal. Otherwise, we might be speculating on what the cartridges will taste like. (I hope they're grape flavored)

 

[Concernt]

Feels like we've exhausted every talking point we could muster up with the many scraps of information we've gathered over the years. Might as well wait and pray we get some leaks after Gamescom or if that summer announcement that Grubb's been speculating on is the big 2nd Gig reveal. Otherwise, we might be speculating on what the cartridges will taste like. (I hope they're grape flavored)

Bitrex will continue, after these messages.

 

[D36]

We?

Hey don't rope me into 2024 just yet.

It's just a little unrevealed, it's still good, it's still good!

Concert, we've done all we could. We fought the good fight. It's over.........

 

[Concernt]

Concert, we've done all we could. We fought the good fight. It's over.........

Never say never ever.

 

[Shoulder]

A "simple" mechanical wheel is far more mechanically and electrically complex than a capacitive, pressure sensitive button.

If you want an example of gunk ruining controllers, look at Joy-Con drift...

And again, a mechanical wheel would interfere with the moment to moment, old fashioned simple digital click of the shoulder button!

(I'll also note a Funcle apparently claims that the shoulder buttons are just bigger, but didn't note anything else about them. A scroll wheel would be very, very obvious even at the moulding stage, while a capacitive part can, essentially, be glued on with no visual changes.)

I'm only trying to play devil's advocate because Nintendo's MO is typically of what is relatively cheap, readily available, and simple. I don't know off hand though if a mechanical scrolling wheel shoulder button is cheaper or more expensive than a capacitive pressure sensitive shoulder button. I'm not disagreeing your solution being likely better, but we also have to remember this is Nintendo we're talking about.

And to be fair to Joy-Con drift, gunk isn't always the main issue as it is also the graphite pads being worn down over time with the metal connector that looks more like a Vinyl Record stylus. I've replaced my joy-con sticks once already, and clearly saw some good wear on the pads because of this.

 

[ReddDreadtheLead]

Then why are you still here?

because I can be? Hello??

Who said I can’t be??

 

[Concernt]

I'm only trying to play devil's advocate because Nintendo's MO is typically of what is relatively cheap, readily available, and simple. I don't know off hand though if a mechanical scrolling wheel shoulder button is cheaper or more expensive than a capacitive pressure sensitive shoulder button. I'm not disagreeing your solution being likely better, but we also have to remember this is Nintendo we're talking about.

And to be fair to Joy-Con drift, gunk isn't always the main issue as it is also the graphite pads being worn down over time with the metal connector that looks more like a Vinyl Record stylus. I've replaced my joy-con sticks once already, and clearly saw some good wear on the pads because of this.

My argument is partly that nowadays, capacitance is almost always cheaper than mechanical anything. Usually that's not a good thing, but I think it could be effective here!

 

[YolkFolk]

More like Xbox One cut in half to PS5 cut into thirds.

It’s always best to just look at the games and use those as the examples.

Switch games look closer to PS3 games than they do PS4 games regardless of any technical technicalities.

By that same measure, Switch 2 games will likely look closer to PS4 games than they will PS5 games.

This is why Red Dead Redemption and Red Dead Redemption 2 were a good example to use in terms of explaining why the next Switch will be a true next generational leap forward. The leap between those two pieces of software is huge and the Switch 2 being capable of handling such a successor (RDR2) should give us great cause for optimism.

Therefore, nobody at all should be concerned that this new hardware won’t be a big jump over the current Switch.

 

[10k]

We?

Hey don't rope me into 2024 just yet.

It's just a little unrevealed, it's still good, it's still good!

Unfortunately we’ll all have to wait a bit longer for the Nintendo Switch Advance but the wait will be worth it!

Pokémon Scarlet and Violet have been patched to run 24fps consistently on it.

 

[kalosmani]

There's nothing mechanically wrong with the mouse wheel, so why change it? It's a tried and true method.



Wonder if it'll be some awkward naming scheme like the Switch Flip because they're "Flipping the script" on what they normally do in terms of sequel platforms. Or take a cue from the NES, and call it the Nintendo Switch Entertainment System.

That said, given how Nintendo understands how successful Apple is with the iPhone, it only makes sense to keep the naming scheme simple. Apple went from the iPhone to the iPhone 3G in order to communicate that it had 3G connectivity. It was simple, yet effective. Then it was the iPhone 3GS, and then the iPhone 4. They just kept the numbers, but made it clear it was new.

It would make a case for Nintendo to make it simply the Switch 4K, though at the same time, you don't want to convey the wrong message that it can do 4K on both docked, and handheld, because only the former could do that.

"The Nintendo Switch 2: You were expecting Die Hard 2, but in fact it's Aliens."



It does make me wonder if Nintendo would consider going down that road again, but flip the tech from the Gamepad to the Dock. It would certainly allow DS games, but it is also currently possible to play DS games on the Wii U without the Gamepad if I remember correctly.

Maybe a month or so ago, I suggested that Nintendo could offer a controller holder for the Switch where the hardware is mounted vertically instead of horizontally. Turns out, there actually is a product that does just that called the Flip Grip.

Sure, it doesn't do you any good for docked gameplay, but it would work in the same vain as the 2DS does.

If Switch 2 had a stylus and came with this Flip Grip officially (let's be honest this would be cheap as it's a piece of plastic) it could be good new edition for the Switch. Market DS games as a new game selection for Nintendo Switch Online retro game catalogue.

For launch they can also include game like a Nintendo Pinball party game, where you have Nintendo themed pinball levels where each pinball level works differently. Donkey Kong you can have barrels, Kirby you can use stylus to draw lines, Metroid you have bombs. All these games will be able to be played vertically.

I can't think of any other use that Nintendo can use vertical screen for their games but the stylus can be used for many games like Nintendogs sequel, Brain Age, Trauma Centre, Pikmin, Mario Maker and etc.

Yeah the Stylus is more useful than the vertical grip, but to throw in a vertical grip in the package would cost Nintendo nothing and it's worth it just for DS games and the 1 or 2 games Nintendo can support it with.

 

[D36]

Found this meme on Discord and I have to say, I relate to the North American River Otter a lot.

Do we expect Switch 2nd Gig to have the same semiconductors as the Switch 1 or does it not matter?

 

[mjayer]

We?

Hey don't rope me into 2024 just yet.

It's just a little unrevealed, it's still good, it's still good!

Same! Same. Same?

 

[Maxrunner]

Nintendo Switch: 2nd Gig

Just call it Nintendo Switch Too( 2 ).

 

[SiG]

Nintendo Switch: 2nd Gig

Nintendo Switch: Stand Alone Complex

 

[DariliumA]

Otters are sleeping still.

 

[MuchLonk]

Nintendo Hub

 

[Dark Cloud]

This is a pretty dumb thing to tease & mention. A YT channel is planning to share a rumor they have heard in regards to Switch 2. The channel in question shared some Nintendo related stuff recently. I assume they told Prime about their intent to share info soon, as they also mentioned it to me in passing. What the info is, I don't know. But, yes, a YT podcast channel will discuss something Switch 2 related in rumor capacity this coming weekend. Whether the information is worthwile... we'll see.


Definitely can be the case. IGN and other outlets are not operating in the dark on these matters. What they choose to discuss seems like a deliberate action.

Hmm. If it’s worthwhile info I’ll take it lol

 

[LiC]

Found this meme on Discord and I have to say, I relate to the North American River Otter a lot.

Do we expect Switch 2nd Gig to have the same semiconductors as the Switch 1 or does it not matter?

I think we can be reasonably confident it will use silicon. Maybe Nintendo revolutionized physics when no one was looking, though, we can't discount that possibility.

 

[Giancarlo]

with everyone abusing the Argentina eShop, to buy games with the cheapest best prices, this will make Nintendo made the Switch sucessor not region free anymore, even americans/european was abusing this

 

[Dark Cloud]

with everyone abusing the Argentina eShop, to buy games with the cheapest best prices, this will make Nintendo made the Switch sucessor not region free anymore, even americans/european was abusing this

So what no other systems have this issue like Sony or Microsoft?

 

[Concernt]

with everyone abusing the Argentina eShop, to buy games with the cheapest best prices, this will make Nintendo made the Switch sucessor not region free anymore, even americans/european was abusing this

It's really not that big a deal, like at all. SOME Americans might do it, but that's far from the majority, and those that do may not have bought anything without low prices. Nintendo really doesn't lose unless everyone does it. Certainly not enough to re-engineer a regional locking system.

Region locks in general are outdated and frankly gauche, it's insane to me that they even bother with region locking DVD and Blu-Ray players. It's a global world, companies need to keep up with that.

 

[OctoSplattack]

Individual publishers might forego regional pricing if they think this is hurting their bottom-line significantly, as has been happening on other storefronts, but I don't see Nintendo reinstituting region locking to deal with the problem.

 

[Mirev]

Seems like I’m one of the few here without any fear of “Nintendo Switch U” or names like this.

Internet has changed a lot since 2013 and the real problem was the first trailer showed by Nintendo, it also never focused on the console, just controller.

Unless they change something on the controllers and put a trailer with “Do this with the New Joy-Cons”, I really think that the success of the console will be just based on the new games.

Xbox is the perfect example. “Series X” is a BIG shit name after Xbox One X, and just few parents had problems with this.

 

[Giancarlo]

So what no other systems have this issue like Sony or Microsoft?

simply because after 6 years, Nintendo first party games are still sold at full price, unlike Xbox/Sony where you can find most of it major releases you can buy the games at a adequate price, you never find God of War Ragnarok sold at full price

 

[Look over there]

Wonder if it'll be some awkward naming scheme like the Switch Flip because they're "Flipping the script" on what they normally do in terms of sequel platforms. Or take a cue from the NES, and call it the Nintendo Switch Entertainment System.

That said, given how Nintendo understands how successful Apple is with the iPhone, it only makes sense to keep the naming scheme simple. Apple went from the iPhone to the iPhone 3G in order to communicate that it had 3G connectivity. It was simple, yet effective. Then it was the iPhone 3GS, and then the iPhone 4. They just kept the numbers, but made it clear it was new.

It would make a case for Nintendo to make it simply the Switch 4K, though at the same time, you don't want to convey the wrong message that it can do 4K on both docked, and handheld, because only the former could do that.

"The Nintendo Switch 2: You were expecting Die Hard 2, but in fact it's Aliens."

Oh if only Bill Paxton was still around, for some of that "Game over man, GAME OVER!"

---

Alright, veering off course a bit, but I really wanted to type up something on seeing Baldur's Gate 3 benchmarks. If you already know your computers, I don't think that anything I say will be new. I'm hoping that it's at least a worthwhile read to the subset of readers who are less familiar.
Lots of rambling; as always, you are quite welcome to correct me where I'm wrong. Particularly, I was motivated by Digital Foundry's article today. And in addition, there's this from pcgameshardware.de; my focus is on the CPU benchmarks.
So Alex suggests that one of the reasons for the performance tanking in act 3 of BG3 is the significant increase in NPCs and the corresponding AI scripts weighing down the CPU.

First thing I wanted to blaber on about would actually be the CPU benchmarks on pcgameshardware.de. Particularly noticeable is the drastic difference between the regular Zen 3/4 SKUs and the X3D SKUs. Hardware-wise, the difference between regular and X3D is that the regular SKU can clock a bit higher, while for the X3D SKU, a given CPU core has access to 96 MB of L3 cache instead of 32 MB.

Oh right, quick interjection about "the memory hierarchy" for the readers. CPU needs data/instructions to do work. Said data/instructions need to be held somewhere in order to be retrieved. The hierarchy is just describing the order of locations to search in. Internal storage is at the bottom/end. Storage is awful, so thus RAM exists. RAM, while a massive improvement, eventually gets deemed 'can still be improved upon'. And lo, this thing called 'cache' now exists. And over time we have multiple levels of cache. You'll see reference to L1/L2/L3 cache. The number is descriptive; it's just the order in which they're searched in. If you can't find what you want in L1, then you move on to L2. If you can't find it in L2, you move onto L3 if there is an L3 (Tegra X1 doesn't have an L3), but otherwise to RAM you go. You eventually run out of levels of cache to go through and have to turn to RAM.
Furthermore, cache should be holding recently needed data. New data wouldn't be already there. And relatively older data that was placed there eventually gets replaced with new incoming data.

Back to the X3D vs non-X3D Zen chips.
X3D gets a win whenever you get a hit in L3 cache where the non-X3D would instead get a miss. That is, you're working with something that fits within 96 MB, but not 32 MB.
Non-X3D gets a win whenever accessing data is a hit or miss for both SKUs, due to higher clocks. As in, both hit in L1? Clocks should win out. Both hit in L2? Clocks should win out. Both hit in L3? Clocks win. Both need to hit RAM? Clocks win.
For the X3D SKU to pull ahead by so much, it should mean that it's accumulating a lot of wins. That is a lot of times where you miss L1, you miss L2, but then hit in the 33-96 MB of L3 (because it'd have to miss the regular SKU's 32 MB of L3). That's a lot of times where you're accessing recent-ish data, and there's a decent chunk of said recent-ish data.
AI scripts... makes sense? They seem to be something that would be constantly running. They also seem like that they would be something that would keep touching the same data.

Moving away from X3D vs non-X3D to a quick look between different CPUs...
Going from 6C/12T to 8C/16T SKUs within a gen helps somewhat, but nowhere near proportionally. Like the 3600->3800XT isn't a 1/3 increase in average FPS. Similarly with 5600->5800X. It's mainly going from one gen to another that makes the big differences. For those less familiar, I'll do a recap.
Ryzen 3000 (Zen 2) to Ryzen 5000 (Zen 3) series: Core got expanded (read as: higher potential IPC, or performance per clock), plus how the cores are organized changed from 4 cores in one cluster to 8 cores in one cluster. Latency between cores within the same cluster is much better than between different clusters. Also, each core has access to the L3 cache in its cluster. For the SKUs tested here, cores in the 3100/3600/3800XT have access to 16 MB of L3 cache. Cores in the 5600/5800X have access to 32 MB of L3 cache. Reminder: PS5/Series use monolithic Zen 2, so their cores have access to 4 MB of L3 cache. Also, remember that while GDDR has the bandwidth advantage over LPDDR or regular DDR, their latency is worse (ie, worse for frequent access). It'll be interesting to see how the PS5 version fares...

Intel 8000/9000/10000 (they're all Skylake cores) to 13000 (Raptor Lake; uses Raptor Cove and (enhanced) Gracemont cores): Between Skylake and Raptor Cove, there've been two significant expansions to the core. There's also been a few changes to the memory subsystem. Skylake had 32 KB of L1 Instruction/32 KB of L1 Data per core. Raptor Cove has 32 KB of L1 Instruction/48 KB of L1 Data per core. Skylake has 256 KB of L2 per core; Raptor Cove has 2 MB of L2 per core. Skylake chips with hyperthreading have a total L3 cache of 2 MB times the number of cores. Raptor Lake usually has a total L3 cache of 3 MB times (# of Raptor Cove cores + # of Gracemont clusters). Also Raptor Lake generally gets pushed to higher clocks than the Skylake-based generations. So the performance uplift is coming from a combination of clocks, higher potential performance per clock, and a beefier memory subsystem.

Alright, now to what really got me itching to make this post. There's a particular paragraph in the Eurogamer article that stood out to me:

Is this performance justified and can it be fixed? To answer that, I think we can look at how the performance scales with the amount of cores and threads. When looking at the Core i9 12900K, we see some interesting data when examining how the game runs across different amounts of cores and threads. The best performing combination here is actually eight cores without hyperthreading on. Eight cores only performs four percent better than six, while the fully enabled 12900K is just two percentage points better than the six-core result, despite doubling threads and available cores. Eight p-cores with hyperthreading enabled is the worst result of all, a touch slower than the six core result.

And yea, it sticks out to me cause every now and then we get people wondering about 'how much does the lack of SMT matter?' here

First off, hyperthreading/HT. What is that? (besides being Intel's brand for their version of Simultaneou Multi-Threading, or SMT) So, years and years ago (at least a couple of decades ago), a couple of inefficiencies were observed. Temporal/time and electrical/energy.
Sometimes a core is just stalling for whatever reason. Maybe some part of the core needs to be used for what you want to do next, but it's also kind of busy working right now. So you're just waiting around, twiddling your thumbs doing nothing. That sucks. So HT/SMT is the idea of enabling a core to have a 2nd thread running; to potentially convert some dead time into something productive. Assuming said other thread doesn't need the same resources.
Electrically, this is back before clock gating got further refined. You're lighting up/turning on huge chunks of the core, if not all of it. But you're not necessarily using all that you've lit up. Well, that's a waste of energy, right? So HT/SMT can potentially utilize parts that are on but otherwise not in use; try to 'un-waste' some energy.
But notice that HT/SMT is effectively a method to try to cover for gaps. If your core is better at single thread utilization, there's less room for potential improvement from a 2nd thread. If your clock gating is refined enough such that you're better at only powering the parts you need, you're wasting less energy that a 2nd thread would've tried to cover for.
Also remember that HT/SMT doesn't create additional resources. For example, you're sharing the cache that's private to each core...

Second, the 12900k. What is that? Alder Lake uses Golden Cove and (original) Gracemont cores. Golden Cove is... well, I should say that Raptor Cove is basically a refinement of Golden Cove. The notable difference here is that Golden Cove has 1.25 MB of L2 cache per core. Anyway, the full 12900k is 8 Golden Cove cores plus 2 clusters of Gracemont cores (1 cluster of Gracemont = 4 cores, so 2 clusters = 8 cores). Total of 30 MB of L3 cache.
The (original) Gracemont cores themselves have 64 KB L1 Instruction/32 KB L1 Data per core. Then they have 2 MB of L2 per cluster (not core). And for completion's sake; I mentioned (enhanced) Gracemont is what's used by Raptor Lake earlier. The "enhancement" here is increasing a cluster's L2 from 2 MB to 4 MB.
Couple more links for those interested...
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1704...hybrid-performance-brings-hybrid-complexity/6 - inter-core latency for the 12900k. Also, latencies for the memory sub-system in nanoseconds.
https://chipsandcheese.com/2021/12/02/popping-the-hood-on-golden-cove/ - gotta scroll down quite bit, but eventually you'll get to a section covering latencies for the memory sub-system in both nanoseconds and clock cycles.

Performance hierarchy seems to be:
8 Golden Cove only, hyperthreading OFF
8 Golden Cove + 8 Gracemont, hyperthreading ON (ie the full 12900k)
6 Golden Cove only, hyperthreading OFF
8 Golden Cove only, hyperthreading ON

Ok, my gut reaction:
8 Golden Cove only with no HT? At most 8 threads at a time. Need context switching every time a core wants to change threads. Plus side though? You're confident that a thread has all of a core's L1 and L2 cache to themselves. I'm guessing that this config is scoring a lot of wins from the AI density to compensate for the fewer threads.

Full 12900k? So, default behavior is that the task scheduler first populates the P-cores (Golden Cove here) with 1 thread each, then the E-cores (the Gracemont cores) get a thread each, then you finally start putting hyperthreads on the P-cores. So it's actually not until thread #17 that HT starts kicking in. An individual Gracemont is far weaker than an individual Golden Cove, but a thread on a Gracemont still gets the full core to itself along with L1 and access to the cluster's L2, compared to a hyperthread on a P-core getting leftovers.

6 Golden Cove only with no HT? I suppose that 6 threads at a time just isn't quite enough.

8 Golden Cove only with HT on? How did that drop off so much? I'm looking in the direction of hyperthreads clashing with the main thread over... maybe the cache, due to the AI scripts. And/or both threads on the core need the exact same execution units, or other parts of the core. But I'm thinking that 1.25 MB of L2 cache to split between two threads maaaay be a bit of a tight squeeze in this scenario. So there may be a fair amount of times where this config is getting kicked out to L3 or beyond, while the other configs are remaining in L2.
(...although, it would be interesting if Alex can do this test with a Raptor Lake CPU and see if 2 MB of L2 cache for the P-core would help...)

...uh, oh, yea, maybe I should try to this to Nintendo somehow? Um, so guys, what's probably necessary to do if we want a port of Baldur's Gate 3 on the NG? Slash as much unnecessary AI running concurrently as possible?

Edit: bwaaa, **** me, I forgot to cover Ryzen 5000 (Zen 3)-> Ryzen 7000 (Zen 4). Zen 3 to Zen 4 was another expansion to the core. So, performance uplift comes from higher clocks and potential IPC.