Andre3333456
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Looks like Mario Kart Tour is no longer getting content updates after October 4th, maybe it is a good time for Nintendo to reveal the next Mario Kart game after this day passes.
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StarTopic Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars
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Looks like Mario Kart Tour is no longer getting content updates after October 4th, maybe it is a good time for Nintendo to reveal the next Mario Kart game after this day passes.
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They are shutting down the Mario Kart team for selling 0 copies of Tour
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Yeah they’re going to reveal the new Mario Kart for Switch 2. Was this ever in doubt. Mario Kart 8 dlc ending the end of this year told us that years ago.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
it seens the anouncement of a new Mario Kart is imminent, many trough Nintendo would do a second Booster Course Pass or do a definitive edition of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, with all content for Booster Course Pass packed in.
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Arms sold much more than the newest mainline MK entry, it's clear where the future of Yabuki's team lies.
TheMoon
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who are these people
they would never do either of these lol before anyone says "but smash got a 2nd fighter's pass": please note that that was under completely different circumstances and not comparable at all so let's not do this lol
please tell me none of them are on this board
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
some YouTubers i saw, they made a video speculating the possibilty of a second Booster Course Pass
Just goes to show how unimaginative people are
EDIT: it seems you changed your comment, so that renders my reply moot
TheMoon
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disregard those youtubers who are desperate to create any sort of content that gets people to click on their videos when there is nothing official out there to discuss. they'll say anything, even the most basic nonsense that can be dismissed out of hand. this isn't serious discussion or anything of the sort, it's the content and engagement machine feeding itself.
often they lack a fundamental understanding of even the main subject they're focusing their channel on (nintendo as a company in this case) and fail to apply analysis backed up by well researched facts.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
yes, this feel just like they doing clickbait after clickbait for the Switch Pro, i was glad Digital Foundry finaly shot down Switch Pro is not gonna happen, i was annoyed,
LordByron28
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Yes, my point was moreso surrounding how and why Nintendo nixed different ideas that Retro had for Prime titles when they would later approve odd or seemingly conflicting games. It wasn’t about NLG versus Retro but rather some of Nintendo’s decision making.
The point I’m trying to make is that I think Retro has perhaps been limited a bit by Nintendo/Tanabe being a bit heavier handed. That I think Nintendo should invest more resources into Retro while some are speculating its demise if MP4 doesn’t make it. That I believe it stems from a bit more familiarity and comfort with Japanese sensibilities over western ones. While some of Retro’s ideas coming with western sensibilities are a bit more scrutinized. That Retro’s quality output should allow them a bit more creative freedom, autonomy, and decision making when they are capable of producing games that are widely regarded as some of the best ever made games(prime is high on the list and many regard Tropical Freeze as the best 2D Platformer ever). In addition to looking at the DKC:R titles selling better than a lot of titles Nintendo’s other studios have produced. I use Monolith as an example because I found Xenoblade to be a bit more comparable to the Prime series and the nature of the studio as an acquired first party studio.
Those are fair points. I guess the amount of focus and marketing towards Xenoblade Chronicles X during the Wii U days tainted my opinion.
If they are just ending DLC development for Tour and 8 later this year, I wonder how quickly they could realistically create another title. I’d assume with the DLC they know that Mario Kart products sell well over a lengthy period of time and wouldn’t want to cut sales of the DLC off quickly.
Giancarlo
Nintendo connoiseur
i dont believe the entirely of Mario Kart team worked on the Booster Course Pass, problaby half or even less of the Mario Kart team worked on Mario Kart 8 Deluxe DLC, when the majority is working on the next Mario Kart.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
They really haven’t been that heavy handed all things considered. You speak of monolith but they have talked about how Nintendo really only wants them to focus on Xenoblade with other pitches going nowhere. As we have seen in this discussion alone some of Retro’s pitches, ideas, & concepts couldn’t even get passed Retro higher ups let alone Nintendo; it’s not because they are western that they are getting scrutinized more. You speak of allowing them more freedom, autonomy, & decision making yet we have a 9yr period with nothing to show for it; harkening back to pre-Prime days of unfocused product pitches, concepts, ideas, & unfinished work. It frankly doesn’t matter if they produce “best ever games” if they are never putting them out to sell while other studios/teams in the wheelhouse run circles around them.
If you wanna see heavy handed then we have examples of heavy handed. This is just pretty typical of how studios/teams are handled by Nintendo.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
I mean, the thing is that we haven't seen any of Retro's or Monolith Soft's pitches other than Sheik... Which was on paper one of the worst pitches of all time and may have caused the three leads of Retro to leave the company, lol.
Sheik was............. Yeah.
It's not clear how far Boo Academy got or how far the Zelda Tactics got before being shut down, neither may have made it to a full pitch.
They could be bad pitches or could be pitches for games that require way too many resources or are too niche or maybe Nintendo's higher-ups are just too conservative. It's really hard to tell with how little info we have.
Like, maybe Monolith Soft pitched a game where you played as waifus fighting Jesus and figures from the Old Testament.
May not have been received very well by Nintendo.
Sheik was............. Yeah.
It's not clear how far Boo Academy got or how far the Zelda Tactics got before being shut down, neither may have made it to a full pitch.
They could be bad pitches or could be pitches for games that require way too many resources or are too niche or maybe Nintendo's higher-ups are just too conservative. It's really hard to tell with how little info we have.
Like, maybe Monolith Soft pitched a game where you played as waifus fighting Jesus and figures from the Old Testament.
May not have been received very well by Nintendo.
LordByron28
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I mean it’s a bit hard to ascertain what exactly has happened as Nintendo has no interest in portraying its studios into a negative light. All we know is from disgruntled employees that left the company which can be a take it with a grain of salt. I’d say that we could look at their relationships with other western studios. Rare was dumped when things were getting slightly out of control but they had previously delivered a wide catalog of titles that significantly helped the SNES and GB as well as playing a pivotal role on the N64. Silicon Knights was a strong partner that Nintendo wasn’t interested in salvaging. NCL was progressing well in the mid-00’s with MvDK series, Wave Race, 1080, and Metroid Hunters as well as other projects but the studio really collapsed and had a major setback after Project HAMMER was cancelled leading to staff leaving. Monster Games developing Excite Truck, Excite Bots, and Pilotwings Resort before the dissolution of their relationship with Nintendo. Significant staff exodus’ from Retro specifically citing management within Retro and/or disconnect with Nintendo of Japan. In addition to Nintendo liking Retro’s MP4 pitch but going for Namco instead.
I think something can clearly be said about Nintendo’s historical problems with western studios and being able to sustain relationships with them. Likewise for NoA leadership and the amount of autonomy that they possess. Outside of Ubisoft, I don’t think Nintendo has been able to have long lasting good relations with western 3rd parties unlike Japanese 3rd parties. There appears to be a clear pattern and opportunity for improvement within Nintendo to find and develop better working relationships with western 3rd parties. Something that I believe could benefit them in the long run and continue to expand their base and appeal through original products like they’ve done in the past with Metroid Prime, Goldeneye 007, Eternal Darkness, DKC, Banjo Kazooie, 1080, Wave Race, Excite Truck, and Luigi’s Mansion.
Alternatively we can look at the products and status of the studios before and after leaving Nintendo which do not paint a pretty picture for any of these western studios. Even NLG’s games they produced outside of Nintendo were mediocre at best. Likewise Tanabe’s track record has ranged from average to amazing depending on the studio he is overseeing. Retro has consistently worked out the best among Tanabe’s supervision and have yet to release anything short of spectacular. So something can also be said about those studios and how talented they were without Nintendo’s influence.
I’m not speaking of those projects but of concepts they proposed for the Prime series or prototypes that got further into the development stages.
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Mario Kart Tour
Mario and friends go global in this new Mario Kart as they race around courses inspired by real-world cities in addition to classic Mario Kart courses! These destinations will be featured in tours that rotate every two weeks! In addition to courses based on iconic locales, some of your favorite...
www.metacritic.com
ARMS
The first fighting game of its kind. Choose a fighting champion from around the world, equip your own combination of extendable arms, and then use a mix of button presses and quick hand motions to really take the fight to your opponent. Throw punches and guide them midflight to hit agile...
www.metacritic.com
Let's review, Mario Kart Tour is:
-hated by players
-hated by gamers
-hated by the fans
-hated by critics
-hated by gamers
-has sold 0 copies
uh oh, it looks like it's dunzo for the Mario Kart team. Bad sales AND bad reception = Nintendo shutting them down. Nintendo shutting Nintendo down. Their best times are behind them, all they could do was get out a port and a launch year title. They better make Arms 2 fast, or they'll be sorry.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
Mario Kart Tour
Mario and friends go global in this new Mario Kart as they race around courses inspired by real-world cities in addition to classic Mario Kart courses! These destinations will be featured in tours that rotate every two weeks! In addition to courses based on iconic locales, some of your favorite...ARMS
The first fighting game of its kind. Choose a fighting champion from around the world, equip your own combination of extendable arms, and then use a mix of button presses and quick hand motions to really take the fight to your opponent. Throw punches and guide them midflight to hit agile...
Let's review, Mario Kart Tour is:
-hated by players
-hated by gamers
-hated by the fans
-hated by critics
-hated by gamers
-has sold 0 copies
uh oh, it looks like it's dunzo for the Mario Kart team. Bad sales AND bad reception = Nintendo shutting them down. Nintendo shutting Nintendo down. Their best times are behind them, all they could do was get out a port and a launch year title. They better make Arms 2 fast, or they'll be sorry.
NST was demoted for over a decade because of Project Hammer so I think there is reasonable concern about a Retro demotion to EPD support if Prime 4 turns out badly. Hopefully it's great instead.
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I'm just joking. I don't think Prime 4 will be bad enough for Retro to be demoted, probably, but as I said it could happen. Especially since Metroid's sales aren't great, the combination of the two would be bad.
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Can't be demoted for Metroid Prime 4 underperforming if you never release Metroid Prime 4.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
There’s zero chance of MP4 having any problems critically.
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Honestly if Metroid Prime 4 was a Project Hammer level disaster, Nintendo would have just cancelled it. They've had no problems doing it with Metroid Prime 4 before.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
The issue is that Retro probably did have a Project Hammer level disaster before Prime 4 so that probably raises the stakes here.
Kind of like how post-Anthem, Bioware is on their last chance with Dreadwolf.
Hopefully it releases soon and is great... It's been a very long time.
TheMoon
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this endless doomsaying about Retro and MP4 just because they're not the AAA treadmill that forces games out to meet financial quarter goals or whatever is really getting tiring and if this weren't this thread, I'd almost call it concern trolling at this point.
I mean we do know. That's why I posted this:
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We're talking about Nintendo-orbit development here, where we know for a fact that they give things time and also sometimes let things just sit. All this doom and concern exists solely because we haven't seen anything and I honestly find that ridiculous.
I mean we do know. That's why I posted this:
They weren't even proper pitches that got to higher ups AT RETRO. Let alone NCL.
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There really isn't, though? They just released the MP Remake to - yet again - massive critical acclaim and good sales performance after releasing the DKCTF port with great sales success and reiterated critical acclaim.
We're talking about Nintendo-orbit development here, where we know for a fact that they give things time and also sometimes let things just sit. All this doom and concern exists solely because we haven't seen anything and I honestly find that ridiculous.
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Yeah, the idea that Nintendo let Retro spend potentially 5+ years on a project that was doomed from the word go while expanding the studio and specifically hiring people to work on it is too silly for words.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
"AAA treadmill" they have not released a single original title in a decade, lol.
I talked to some Square Enix fans before and they were extremely mad about the idea of Luminous being demoted if Forspoken failed and then Luminous was demoted two months after Forspoken got released.
Retro just needs Prime 4 to be really good and needs it to actually release after so many years.
I talked to some Square Enix fans before and they were extremely mad about the idea of Luminous being demoted if Forspoken failed and then Luminous was demoted two months after Forspoken got released.
Retro just needs Prime 4 to be really good and needs it to actually release after so many years.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
It is true though. I’m tired of this BS concern trolling these posters keep doing with retro. If they fking had issues with them they wouldn’t spend thousands and millions on them to grow their studio.
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This is such a tired talking point. I'm going to mention the same thing I always say when this is brought up: Retro's development times are not that different from a major EPD team. Which is more or less where they're at in terms of quality.
The reality of modern videogame development is that the Mario Odyssey team hasn't gotten a second original game on Switch in 6 years because it is more efficient to save it for a successor, and that Tears of the Kingdom took 5-6 years to make despite being a mostly iterative sequel. And this is for one of the most efficient triple A developers on the planet. Obviously those developers contributed a lot more to the Switch, but it doesn't change the point that their development times are long.
If you took any major developer and cancelled their game after years of development, you'd get the exact same development pattern as Retro Studios. There is nothing special about their development times. I ge it's frustrating given how long ago the reboot of the project was announced to wait. But if you cancelled a big EPD project 4 years in, you'd probably have to wait another 4-6 years to get a game out, too. If you want to criticize something, criticize the cancelled project. Which we can all agree with and is at this point just stating the obvious. But Retro Studio's development times for individual projects are not insanely long as of yet.
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Yeah, and the fact that there seems to be very little turnover if you do a bit of creepin on Linkedin. If MP4 or the studio was in a bad state I doubt the new hires would have stuck around for the whole project.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
I mean let’s look at all the studios you listed
- Rare wasn’t dumped but that the Stampers overpriced themselves when selling to Nintendo or misread how willing Nintendo was to acquire them at the time.
- Silicon Knights, much like Factor 5, wanted to move to other pastures during the Wii years. And, much like other studios in the situation they found themselves in, Nintendo was not gonna bail them out
- NST was the only really bad spot here
- Monster Games wanted to do NASCAR games & when the chance presented itself choose to do so
- Retro was passed over for MP4 initially because they were busy. The pitch was to get a project they were familiar with so they could actually release something instead of nothing
The issue with Nintendo & big Western 3rd parties have been issues of two different entities having two opposing models for the industry. While I don’t think they will ever get fully fixed it has been mended to a degree during the Switch era.
I don’t think Retro is getting demoted even if MP4 does poorly. It just means 3D Metroid gets a tighter budget with smaller expectations while Retro focuses on DK to be their potential big seller.
TheMoon
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or something else entirely, it's not like this is the only binary path that exists where they either make DKCs or Metroid Primes. If there's a strong pitch for anything from Mach Rider to Rock N Roll Climber 2 to something original that all sides like, that's just as likely. We're thinking in terms "they have only made this and that so they can only ever make this or that" way too often. Who could've have seen the space first person game studio make a bright 2D platformer until they announced they were making one (and then raked in the 10/10s and awards)
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
I’d rather think Nintendo would get them on something they know & proven to be successful so that they can get their feet under themselves after not releasing a game for 9yrs & another doing poorly in this scenario. If DK does well then they may get some leeway to reboot an IP or try something new. Also considering how DK & Metroid have had issues with not having a home studio to consistently produce games; I’m not gonna be shocked if Nintendo makes Retro the DK & 3D Metroid house.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
The issue with talking about "Retro" is that the studio has changed massively from 2013.
It's hard to tell what the studio is currently good at as there's been so many new people and major departures since their last game. Maybe they're still really interested in Donkey Kong, or maybe the current leads prefer Wario Land or Wave Race. Vince Joly is gone and senior designers were promoted to replace the people who did lead the company in the past.
It's hard to tell what the studio is currently good at as there's been so many new people and major departures since their last game. Maybe they're still really interested in Donkey Kong, or maybe the current leads prefer Wario Land or Wave Race. Vince Joly is gone and senior designers were promoted to replace the people who did lead the company in the past.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Manakete
I still don't love the idea of graphical remakes of GameCube games as it seems like a waste to me, but it being $40 instead of $60 made it a lot less bad.
LordByron28
Cappy
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These are all fair points. Although I thought I read that Monster Games was hired and working on a Wii U project that ultimately got canned and their relationship dissolved from there. Personally, think the Rare decision was a poor decision as I felt they contributed heavily to the N64 having a stronger Western presence which significantly picked up the slack from when the system was underperforming significantly in Japan due to the great S-E falling out. Although there are some inherent design problems Rare was running into and many of their products felt like they were echoing Nintendo titles so it’s hard to say. If Rare had stayed with Nintendo and they were able to get Jet Force Gemini and Goldeneye 007 in addition to the Prime series, perhaps they would’ve severely limited Microsoft’s impact into the gaming market as Xbox was able to get a heavy monopoly on shooters. Then again in the long run, Microsoft’s entry into the market has likely helped Nintendo by eating away at Sony’s market share and helping drive the final nail into the coffin for Sega as a console manufacturer.
Metroid Prime 4’s reveal and release can’t come soon enough to alleviate these concerns about Retro. While a lot of these situations seem like they were out of Nintendo’s control, it doesn’t change that the 00’s brought a major crumbling of their western gaming presence. Nintendo is currently thriving and doing well on a global scale but for long term growth there is a notable disparity between their Japanese and Western presence in terms of overall market share. I do believe Nintendo in the long term needs to work on rebuilding its western gaming development scene to overcome some of these issues. NLG acquisition is a good step in the right direction. Hopefully MP4 is all we hope for and more in terms of critical reception and improved sales to further get things back on track. Retro used to be a studio at the same prestige as EPD Tokyo and the Zelda team. This current situation has left a lot more doubt in the air.
I’d like to see their western development scene back to its former glory ideally handling IPs such as Metroid, DK, Luigi’s Mansion, Sports and Racing titles such as 1080, Wave Race, F-Zero, DK Racing, and/or Excite series. I think Kid Icarus and Star Fox have the potential to do well with a successful reimagining/reinterpretation of the series. As well as some new original IPs. Perhaps utilizing the existing teams and partners they have and allowing them to provide support for their projects such as Retro providing some development support for NLG’s and NLC’s projects and/or vice versa.
Tentacle-tropes
Kremling
To my knowledge I haven’t heard anything about a WiiU project that got canned. Monster Games did make it known though they wanted to work on NASCAR games again if they could. I don’t think Rare would’ve helped much if they were bought out by Nintendo. The Cube still would have done poorly & not really help western relations; while the Wii flipped the table & was going in another direction from where the rest of the industry wanted. Handhelds probably would have benefitted more though.
The difference in market share comes solely down to the fact that 2/3 console developers basically don’t exist in the Japanese market. Who’s Xbox is not just a meme in JP & Sony doesn’t care for the region except to generate content for 10yrs+ now. Nintendo doesn’t really need to rebuild their western gaming arm in the modern landscape; they just need to mend 3rd party relations so they start getting games they missed in previous gens sooner.
With the way Nintendo is expanding & their acquisition strategy; I doubt we see their western gaming arm go back to its former glory. I can maybe see NST becoming a bigger studio to handle more intensive projects but Retro, NST, & NLG are kinda it. They’ll have their franchises they consistently do with an occasional reboot or maybe a new IP.
Supreme Overlord
Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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Something Retro does have in its favor if its next project falls to the depths being proposed here is that it does have name recognition and prestige. NST never really had that, at least to the same extent.
Of course, this recognition probably plays into why it's proposed so often that the studio will be punished in some way.
Anyhow, I still think the basic idea of that boo game looked adorable.
Of course, this recognition probably plays into why it's proposed so often that the studio will be punished in some way.
Anyhow, I still think the basic idea of that boo game looked adorable.
... You know what, they should go for it.
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There are still a lot of people who worked on the Prime Triolgy there though, even people who worked on MP1.
LordByron28
Cappy
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I agree to some extent as to why Nintendo has such dominance in Japan. However, look at some of their IPs such as Splatoon and Pikmin where it is heavily dominant on Japanese sales. Nintendo lost their footing with the Japanese market during the PS1/PS2 days. Sony post-PS3 took the market for granted. They saw that they had Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts, Metal Gear Solid, Resident Evil, and a plethora of other AA Japanese 3rd party franchises as well as Monster Hunter in the PSP era. What changed is Nintendo began chipping away at their advantage while Sony was chasing after the western audience to compete against Microsoft. Nintendo was able to develop software that really resonated with a different audience and their classic fans with DS/Wii. When Nintendo had that large audience they slowly began repairing relationships convincing Japanese 3rd parties to develop titles for them that fit within the Nintendo ecosystem such as what resonated with NES and SNES fans as nostalgia was strong and Nintendo was cultivating that audience such as with NSMB. Nintendo started getting more significant remakes of classic FF and Jrpgs titles. They began targeting specific franchises that resonated with their brand and fit their ecosystem. DQ9 was a pivotal moment where you could feel a shift from the PS1/PS2 days. Then Nintendo was also able to secure Monster Hunter. Nintendo began investing into more JRPG franchises such as Fire Emblem and Xenoblade. They partnered and reached out to 3rd party developers to develop games utilizing their ip such as KT with Metroid: Other M, Pokémon Conquest, Hyrule Warriors. Namco with SSB and Kid Icarus and even SE with Mario spin-offs giving some more traditional Japanese gaming sensibilities and influence to their franchises. They invested quite a bit in working with Level 5 which paid off in dividends during the DS/3DS era with a number of multimillion selling franchises in Japan as well as helping develop DQ9. Created a region exclusive Animal Crossing movie that aired in theatres. From the DS/Wii era, 3DS era, and Switch era they were able to gain a complete monopoly on the market. Meanwhile the franchises that Sony felt they had secured which gave them such dominance over the Japanese market began waning. Mainline SE titles developed and headed by Nomura have drastically declined. Metal Gear Solid has concluded its arc and Kojima has yet to find similar success. Capcom and Namco have begun investing and developing less titles outside of a few of their staple franchises and most of those have started declining outside of RE and MH. Nintendo’s predominance in the market has grown so significantly that now most up and coming developers only want to work for Nintendo.
While the Japanese market is a significant market that has helped Nintendo dramatically and they shouldn’t stop trying to maintain their dominance in the market. In the long run, the market will decline due to population and economic reasons. I do think they could follow a similar strategy in expanding in the west and growing deeper and stronger roots. It helps further grow their resilience. Competitors aren’t ever going to cease trying to carve their niche in the market even at the expense of Nintendo. Obviously Nintendo’s franchises have maintained and grown in popularity so significantly the past few decades that they have existed that it would be hard to imagine a significant decline. Yet the Wii U wasn’t that long ago and now that they are pursuing the hybrid approach they can’t afford to have a Wii U, GameCube, N64, or Virtual Boy level setback.
I’m not saying Nintendo grow acquisition hungry but working on investing and expanding their existing western development scene so that they have a more secure and stable western gaming development infrastructure. One that is not nearly as volatile as it has been in the past. Nintendo as a company has realized its franchises and characters are significant sources of revenue to further increase avenues of profit. They can use their franchises to help sell merchandise, movies and theme parks and couples with increased popularity these other divisions will also increase their overall revenue as well as increased sales into their videogames.
Nintendo can’t survive solely on running every generation with the same franchises and expect for fan interest to remain the same. They need to continually explore different interpretations/twists with their existing franchises whether it be spin-offs, new gimmicks/evolutions in their new entries or complete reinventions of their existing franchises. No one can fully and accurately predict how the videogame industry will change in the next 5-10 years. However, having a diversified amount of resources appealing to different audiences can help ensure survability.
P.Scoop
Mostly lurk, talk sometimes.
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First, no (not beyond what we got for original 8's DLCs anyway)
Second, we know so little of that game, it's way too soon to make a dedicated thread for it.
OctoSplattack
Chain Chomp
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Things we currently know about Princess Peach will star as the main character in a brand new game (temp.):
- Princess Peach will star as the main character.
- It is a brand new game.
- It has a theatre/stage play aesthetic.
- It releases next year.
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Developed by Nintendo themselves? There's few things I am as confident in as I am in saying that this will never happen.
TheMoon
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now I just need to see Retro x Star Tropics again and I think I'm in a thread from a decade ago lol
AllEchse
Bob-omb
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Are MMOs even that popular anymore?
Apart from FFXIV?
It seems like a much mote niche genre these days when you have all these Destiny like MMO-lite games.
And even there most of them just crash and burn like Avengers or Anthem.
To me it feels like a much too risky market, I think Nintendo plays it safer anyway.
Also, looking at how they've been dealing with online parts of their multiplayer focussed titles I'm dreading how a Nintendo supported MMO would look like.
How about mentioning the concept of a Pokémon MMO?
