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StarTopic Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars

Reader mode
9Volt said:
I wonder what was the project Retro Studios was working before Metroid Prime 4
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We all are in the same bolt here, pal.

Well, I think the better question is what were they working on from 2014-2017(the canned game for Wii U/Switch). From 2017 onwards they were making Metroid Prime Remastered (began as Trilogy remaster but then tuned into 1 remaster/remake mid dev) that gone gold by late 2021. They were given Metroid Prime 4 late 2018(announced early 2019), but I think it's safe to assume most of the team was busy with MPR or at least a big chunk of it, as we got a lot of key staff hirings mid dev.

Late 2013/early 2014 until 2017- new IP/new game that got canned, entered development as their next Wii U game(confirmed), moved to Switch and got canceled somewhere between 2017 and 2018;
Late 2017/18 until late 2021:
Earlier: Metroid Prime Trilogy remaster for Switch.
Later: focus moved to heavily rework/1:1 remake Prime 1, with 2/3 abandoned(can come later with MPR setting the ground, but not in development yet). Gone gold 2021, aimed to release holiday 2022.
2018: new game is canceled, they're working on either the trilogy or the 1 remake already, also providing assistance for Bandai Namco on Metroid Prime 4. Original Prime 4 is then scrapped and they restart from scratch as lead development team. After Prime 1 remake gone gold it's probably the whole team hard at work to finish 4. Aiming for a 2023 release.
 
2017-2021 seems a dev cycle too big for a remaster, even if XC: DEs style. I guess it could be justified due to support Scamco in Prime 4 at the same time and after working on Prime 4 as the main (and atm only) developer
 
ILikeFeet said:
hard to say how long MP1 was in the works for, but I can see 3-ish years. before that and after Donkey Kong though, who knows. I kinda think it was a 3D donkey kong game
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Someone claimed it was like a music/dance RPG new IP or something. I don't remember who tho.
 
A new ip, most likely. Retro always wanted to make a new ip and tried/failed at multiple occasions. No way it was dk lol. I also dont believe in this music thing, dont seems to fit with what retro usually does.
 
Blue Monty said:
2017-2021 seems a dev cycle too big for a remaster, even if XC: DEsytle. I guess it could be justified due to support Scamco in Prime 4 at the same time and after working on Prime 4 as the main (and atm only) developer
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Working on more than one game would already make it take longer, not to mention if they made assistance for 4(2018) then became the lead development team for that(2019-2021) for most of the dev time.

I think Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze already took longer than Returns, and they provided assistance to Mario Kart 7(in fact they were tasked to help finish the game desperately so it could be completed for that holiday launch).

But it being a very ambitious remaster that's basically a 1:1 remake, I could already see it demanding that much time. Majora's Mask 3D needed 3.5 years to make and that wasn't even HD development.
 
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Blue Monty said:
All rumors said it was a remaster similar to XC: DE, any reason to believe this isn’t the case?
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A little larger. For one thing we’re talking about a larger generational gap for Prime. Second, while both Monolith and Retro have internal engines they’ve continued to develop, apparently Retro has had some pipeline problems with the older games making working with Prime 2+3 very difficult.

The plan is to resuse the collision meshes from the original games, but make entirely new visual assets, and also update the underlying engine to resolve the motion control issues to allow another studio to take over duties for the second two games, and likely the engine also needs to support Prime 4.
 
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Magic-Man said:
Nah that was confirmed to be an internal joke
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sometimes i wonder if nintendo creates that shit on purpose. Like, about the star fox grand prix... they were the ones who created it and slapped retro's name right? that must be amusing

i didn't think it was that anyway, it had that ''federation force'' look and i dont think nintendo would try that with retro.
 
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Following up because this was a Thing that went down at the old place and info I don’t think is widely known.

Retro were working on an Original Game. According to one dev at the time (I can’t find who atm, it was one of the many “former retro employee gets on a podcast” things that seem to be everywhere lately) it was “never fun” - a grab bag of mechanics that never gelled.

After a lot of time flailing on it, Kyoto suggested a rethink, taking the game and building it around an existing Nintendo IP. Which one I do not know. When that didn’t pay off, Nintendo pulled the plug. The rumors of it being some kind of rhythm game were false, sparked from a single post on Era.

Prime 2+3 use the sensor bar in ways that make using Joy-Cons for control Not Fun. The game could be retuned for Joy-Cons but problems with the dev pipeline meant that automated changes weren’t possible and manual changes very expensive.

Nintendo then handed a complete remake of trilogy to Retro. This gave them a large project that would give them end to end experience with Switch development and employ the majority of staff, as a massive remake like that would require engine work, level tuning, mechanical updates and a lot of asset creation.

Prime 4, meanwhile, was an internal experiment at Nintendo in “modern” game dev, with different teams, possibly in different locations, handling asset creation, level design and engine work. This was apparently a rocky process and Nintendo wasn’t happy with the quality of the level design specifically. Since level design staff were underused by Trilogy Remake, Retro began giving level design support to Bamco, much improving the game.

Then when Nintendo looked at the quality of the visual assets for Trilogy remake, and the question comes up - why bother with Bamco at all? Retro has an engine, they’re producing gorgeous HD Samus art, they’re already doing the level design. Plus they already have a good relationship with Tanabe, and, like, Nintendo has to pay that staff anyway.

New plan - Retro takes over Prime 4, total reboot but it’s not like they even have to be brought up to speed on the intention since they were already working on the project. Only hitch is that making 4 prime games simultaneously is just too much.

Nintendo bets that the remake is enough of a value proposition that they can sell all three games solo. Retro will finish 1, and 2+3 can be farmed out, using the first game as a quality benchmark.

By all accounts Prime 1 is done. Whether or not any work has been done on the other 2 games is unknown, as is Nintendo’s release strategy.
 
oldpuck said:
Following up because this was a Thing that went down at the old place and info I don’t think is widely known.

Retro were working on an Original Game. According to one dev at the time (I can’t find who atm, it was one of the many “former retro employee gets on a podcast” things that seem to be everywhere lately) it was “never fun” - a grab bag of mechanics that never gelled.

After a lot of time flailing on it, Kyoto suggested a rethink, taking the game and building it around an existing Nintendo IP. Which one I do not know. When that didn’t pay off, Nintendo pulled the plug. The rumors of it being some kind of rhythm game were false, sparked from a single post on Era.

Prime 2+3 use the sensor bar in ways that make using Joy-Cons for control Not Fun. The game could be retuned for Joy-Cons but problems with the dev pipeline meant that automated changes weren’t possible and manual changes very expensive.

Nintendo then handed a complete remake of trilogy to Retro. This gave them a large project that would give them end to end experience with Switch development and employ the majority of staff, as a massive remake like that would require engine work, level tuning, mechanical updates and a lot of asset creation.

Prime 4, meanwhile, was an internal experiment at Nintendo in “modern” game dev, with different teams, possibly in different locations, handling asset creation, level design and engine work. This was apparently a rocky process and Nintendo wasn’t happy with the quality of the level design specifically. Since level design staff were underused by Trilogy Remake, Retro began giving level design support to Bamco, much improving the game.

Then when Nintendo looked at the quality of the visual assets for Trilogy remake, and the question comes up - why bother with Bamco at all? Retro has an engine, they’re producing gorgeous HD Samus art, they’re already doing the level design. Plus they already have a good relationship with Tanabe, and, like, Nintendo has to pay that staff anyway.

New plan - Retro takes over Prime 4, total reboot but it’s not like they even have to be brought up to speed on the intention since they were already working on the project. Only hitch is that making 4 prime games simultaneously is just too much.

Nintendo bets that the remake is enough of a value proposition that they can sell all three games solo. Retro will finish 1, and 2+3 can be farmed out, using the first game as a quality benchmark.

By all accounts Prime 1 is done. Whether or not any work has been done on the other 2 games is unknown, as is Nintendo’s release strategy.
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when you spell it out like this it sounds awfully exciting. I'd love to get some tangible indication that this is true soon
 
Raccoon said:
when you spell it out like this it sounds awfully exciting. I'd love to get some tangible indication that this is true soon
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I’ve never played a Prime game despite my love of 2D Metroid. So I’m pretty jazzed
 
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Raccoon said:
when you spell it out like this it sounds awfully exciting. I'd love to get some tangible indication that this is true soon
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You have to remember Retro Studios are not Japanese tho



Only issue I have with the theory is that I would imagine Retro is using their own engine for the remakes, wouldn’t this make outsourcing Prime 2+3 remakes harder? They would need to teach the 3rd party developer how to work with the engine and support it
 
oldpuck said:
Following up because this was a Thing that went down at the old place and info I don’t think is widely known.

Retro were working on an Original Game. According to one dev at the time (I can’t find who atm, it was one of the many “former retro employee gets on a podcast” things that seem to be everywhere lately) it was “never fun” - a grab bag of mechanics that never gelled.

After a lot of time flailing on it, Kyoto suggested a rethink, taking the game and building it around an existing Nintendo IP. Which one I do not know. When that didn’t pay off, Nintendo pulled the plug. The rumors of it being some kind of rhythm game were false, sparked from a single post on Era.

Prime 2+3 use the sensor bar in ways that make using Joy-Cons for control Not Fun. The game could be retuned for Joy-Cons but problems with the dev pipeline meant that automated changes weren’t possible and manual changes very expensive.

Nintendo then handed a complete remake of trilogy to Retro. This gave them a large project that would give them end to end experience with Switch development and employ the majority of staff, as a massive remake like that would require engine work, level tuning, mechanical updates and a lot of asset creation.

Prime 4, meanwhile, was an internal experiment at Nintendo in “modern” game dev, with different teams, possibly in different locations, handling asset creation, level design and engine work. This was apparently a rocky process and Nintendo wasn’t happy with the quality of the level design specifically. Since level design staff were underused by Trilogy Remake, Retro began giving level design support to Bamco, much improving the game.

Then when Nintendo looked at the quality of the visual assets for Trilogy remake, and the question comes up - why bother with Bamco at all? Retro has an engine, they’re producing gorgeous HD Samus art, they’re already doing the level design. Plus they already have a good relationship with Tanabe, and, like, Nintendo has to pay that staff anyway.

New plan - Retro takes over Prime 4, total reboot but it’s not like they even have to be brought up to speed on the intention since they were already working on the project. Only hitch is that making 4 prime games simultaneously is just too much.

Nintendo bets that the remake is enough of a value proposition that they can sell all three games solo. Retro will finish 1, and 2+3 can be farmed out, using the first game as a quality benchmark.

By all accounts Prime 1 is done. Whether or not any work has been done on the other 2 games is unknown, as is Nintendo’s release strategy.
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Thanks very much for that!! Great summary of what happened. I can't wait to see how MPR will look.
ILikeFeet said:
I remember that. there was absolutely no merit to that whatsoever
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Oh, sorry for bringing that up, I didn't know it was debunked.
Blue Monty said:
You have to remember Retro Studios are not Japanese tho



Only issue I have with the theory is that I would imagine Retro is using their own engine for the remakes, wouldn’t this make outsourcing Prime 2+3 remakes harder? They would need to teach the 3rd party developer how to work with the engine and support it
Click to expand...
At first I thought they'd go for simpler remasters with 2 and 3(like how we got more reworking for Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask than for Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword), giving it to other teams instead of Retro (like Tantalus).

If they go the more remaking route tho it would be a bit harder, but maybe porting over the models from remakester to another engine or something? I mean Tantalus can work with the Nintendo internal engines of the 2000s, I'm sure the team tasked with doing 2+3 would find a way.
 
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oldpuck said:
Following up because this was a Thing that went down at the old place and info I don’t think is widely known.

Retro were working on an Original Game. According to one dev at the time (I can’t find who atm, it was one of the many “former retro employee gets on a podcast” things that seem to be everywhere lately) it was “never fun” - a grab bag of mechanics that never gelled.
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought this was about a previous original IP attempt, not in relation to what occured between Tropical Freeze and Prime Remake?
 
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Blue Monty said:
You have to remember Retro Studios are not Japanese tho



Only issue I have with the theory is that I would imagine Retro is using their own engine for the remakes, wouldn’t this make outsourcing Prime 2+3 remakes harder? They would need to teach the 3rd party developer how to work with the engine and support it
Click to expand...
“Theory” isn’t entirely accurate. This is put together from public statements by retro employees put together with a large leak on ResetEra by occasional leaker Belmont, and later confirmed by Emily and Imran Khan. This seems to be pretty patently what went down.

There are dozens of studios that specialize in ports and working with other studio’s engines. Nintendo works with those companies all the time - that’s how games like Skyward Sword HD happen.

But again, it’s not clear what the plan is for 2 and 3. Dread was a huge hit by Metroid standards, but it’s not “annual franchise” huge or “multiple games a year” huge. Remakes for all 3 OG Prime games + 4 is a lot of Metroid for the Switch era.
 
oldpuck said:
“Theory” isn’t entirely accurate. This is put together from public statements by retro employees put together with a large leak on ResetEra by occasional leaker Belmont, and later confirmed by Emily and Imran Khan. This seems to be pretty patently what went down.

There are dozens of studios that specialize in ports and working with other studio’s engines. Nintendo works with those companies all the time - that’s how games like Skyward Sword HD happen.

But again, it’s not clear what the plan is for 2 and 3. Dread was a huge hit by Metroid standards, but it’s not “annual franchise” huge or “multiple games a year” huge. Remakes for all 3 OG Prime games + 4 is a lot of Metroid for the Switch era.
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reminder that in the 2000s metroid was annual to semi-annual tho. Of course, you can say game cost grew and all, but nintendo has been trying to make the franchise have more presence for decades now.
 
Blue Monty said:
All rumors said it was a remaster similar to XC: DE, any reason to believe this isn’t the case?
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The simon belmond rumor says its a full asset remake demon souls ps5 style and the reason nintendo gave prime 4 to retro its because they were impressed by the remake graphics, the trilogy remaster rumor was a misscomunication
 
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oldpuck said:
Nintendo bets that the remake is enough of a value proposition that they can sell all three games solo. Retro will finish 1, and 2+3 can be farmed out, using the first game as a quality benchmark.
Click to expand...

I honestly don't even think this is a thought within Nintendo that Prime 2 and Prime 3 would be remade and released on the Switch. Assuming Prime 1 releases, it serves its purposes in reintroducing the franchise, and setting the stage for Prime 4.

Prime 2 and Prime 3 will probably be released some day through a lower effort eshop or lower scale limited edition retail packaging similar to Super Mario 3D Anniversary.


Tentacle-tropes said:
It’s not even just the bolded now too but also them attempting:
  • Long tailed live service games
  • Their attempt at bringing some of their ips back
  • Gather a work force to have some more erratic ips have a more consistent release schedule
This is not even counting any attempt at getting back into the mobile game if they wished. It’ll be interesting to see where they expand with existing studios outside their main branch.
Click to expand...

I think that's a particular interesting point of how development has changed. The live service / continued support that needs to be dedicated to their major IP releases.
 
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Marce-chan said:
We all are in the same bolt here, pal.

Well, I think the better question is what were they working on from 2014-2017(the canned game for Wii U/Switch).
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I'd imagine that Retro's game required the gamepad. At E3 2014, Nintendo revealed Mario Maker. At E3 2015, they revealed Star Fox Zero. Rather than reveal a Wii U line-up of holiday games and future releases at E3 2016, Nintendo used the event as a Breath of the Wild showcase, and announcing its dual-release on Switch and NX.

We know that Nintendo had their most unique gamepad reveals at the 2014 and 2015 E3 Directs. We also know that Retro's game, along with Luigi's Mansion were both intended to release on Wii U, and that there was a Pikmin 4 game that was far-along in development.

My theory? There was a potential Direct that would have opened with a Pikmin 4 reveal and "Spring 2017" release window, a reveal trailer for Retro's game - both Pikmin 4 and Retro's title were dual-screen HD console game, ala Star Fox Zero - and a Luigi's Mansion 3 reveal, showcasing unique (and required) gamepad mechanics, with a "Fall 2017" release window, before going into a 20-min BOTW trailer, with Treehouses for all four of those titles.

However, once Mario Maker didn't move consoles, and Star Fox Zero failed to sell 30,000 units, Nintendo started scrambling. They moved Luigi's Mansion to NX, with no reveal in-sight, as the game would require significant reworking of any and all capture mechanics, (player's would no longer be able to blow on the gamepad, in effort to fog up the room and reveal ghosts).

Due to Retro's game entirely built around being an HD, console dual-screen experience, there were intentions to push through with the Wii U release, as it (along with LM3) was going to showcase the Wii U's graphical capabilities in ways that hadn't been seen since Mario Kart 8's initial release. After the Switch launched to great success, Nintendo changed plans. Dual-screen wouldn't work on Switch, and a 3DS release would require a mostly from-the-ground-up approach, so it was scrapped..

As for Pikmin 4? That was, theoretically, intended to release, first, on Wii U and later, on 3DS, but the Wii U version got scrapped, and the name was changed to "Hey, Pikmin!"
 
GriffMendez said:
I'd imagine that Retro's game required the gamepad. At E3 2014, Nintendo revealed Mario Maker. At E3 2015, they revealed Star Fox Zero. Rather than reveal a Wii U line-up of holiday games and future releases at E3 2016, Nintendo used the event as a Breath of the Wild showcase, and announcing its dual-release on Switch and NX.

We know that Nintendo had their most unique gamepad reveals at the 2014 and 2015 E3 Directs. We also know that Retro's game, along with Luigi's Mansion were both intended to release on Wii U, and that there was a Pikmin 4 game that was far-along in development.

My theory? There was a potential Direct that would have opened with a Pikmin 4 reveal and "Spring 2017" release window, a reveal trailer for Retro's game - both Pikmin 4 and Retro's title were dual-screen HD console game, ala Star Fox Zero - and a Luigi's Mansion 3 reveal, showcasing unique (and required) gamepad mechanics, with a "Fall 2017" release window, before going into a 20-min BOTW trailer, with Treehouses for all four of those titles.

However, once Mario Maker didn't move consoles, and Star Fox Zero failed to sell 30,000 units, Nintendo started scrambling. They moved Luigi's Mansion to NX, with no reveal in-sight, as the game would require significant reworking of any and all capture mechanics, (player's would no longer be able to blow on the gamepad, in effort to fog up the room and reveal ghosts).

Due to Retro's game entirely built around being an HD, console dual-screen experience, there were intentions to push through with the Wii U release, as it (along with LM3) was going to showcase the Wii U's graphical capabilities in ways that hadn't been seen since Mario Kart 8's initial release. After the Switch launched to great success, Nintendo changed plans. Dual-screen wouldn't work on Switch, and a 3DS release would require a mostly from-the-ground-up approach, so it was scrapped..

As for Pikmin 4? That was, theoretically, intended to release, first, on Wii U and later, on 3DS, but the Wii U version got scrapped, and the name was changed to "Hey, Pikmin!"
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It being gamepad heavy and not being a fun game at all without it or not going anywhere after the project got moved to Switch is a good explanation, yeah.

I disagree on Pikmin 4 and Luigi's Mansion 3 tho... The first was probably a serious case of mistranslation, there was no way it really was near completion in 2015. Also we know that wasn't Hey Pikmin.

I assume Luigi's Mansion 3 development for Wii U wasn't that far along when NLG received Switch dev kits. It definitely wouldn't be ready for fall 2017. It began development in summer 2016 IIRC.
 
Emily said a reason for the weak 2018 was that Nintendo planned Retro game to release that year iirc, Retro didn’t deliver and I guess Nintendo had no way to fill the void or didn’t until late 2018 but at that point Pokemon+Smash would have killed any smaller release. Retro game was at one point planned for Switch
 
Marce-chan said:
It being gamepad heavy and not being a fun game at all without it or not going anywhere after the project got moved to Switch is a good explanation, yeah.

I disagree on Pikmin 4 and Luigi's Mansion 3 tho... The first was probably a serious case of mistranslation, there was no way it really was near completion in 2015. Also we know that wasn't Hey Pikmin.

I assume Luigi's Mansion 3 development for Wii U wasn't that far along when NLG received Switch dev kits. It definitely wouldn't be ready for fall 2017. It began development in summer 2016 IIRC.
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I have no idea about when games went into development, but LM3 on Switch released in 2018, so I theorized 2017 was the initial release window. Thanks for discourse.
 
I believe we will get a September General Direct. I really hope to see one of 2D or 3D Mario or Donkey Kong, Pikmin or Pushmo.
 
GriffMendez said:
I have no idea about when games went into development, but LM3 on Switch released in 2018, so I theorized 2017 was the initial release window. Thanks for discourse.
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It released late 2019 actually.

I'm taking Metroid Prime Federation Force release as the supposed development start of Luigi's Mansion 3.

I think there's an interview where they specifically talk about the 3.5 year development cycle.
 
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GriffMendez said:
I have no idea about when games went into development, but LM3 on Switch released in 2018, so I theorized 2017 was the initial release window. Thanks for discourse.
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"The new Luigi’s Mansion has been in development for a while, with early design taking place on the Wii U and development starting in earnest following the completion of Next Level’s multiplayer-centric 2016 3DS game Metroid Prime Federation Force. At E3, Tanabe and Ikebata were heavily pushing two of Luigi’s new moves in the game: a vacuum-powered hop in the air called “burst” and “slam,” the ability to slap a vacuum-tethered ghost around the room and into other ghosts like snapping a wet towel. The slam move was working on the Wii U and seems to be core to making ghost-catching in the game more exciting and satisfying."

Found this on a Kotaku interview interview. Full development probably started only after Federation Force wrapped, and by 2016 Nintendo already new they wouldn't release anything on Wii U anymore by the time the game would be ready.
 
Marce-chan said:
"The new Luigi’s Mansion has been in development for a while, with early design taking place on the Wii U and development starting in earnest following the completion of Next Level’s multiplayer-centric 2016 3DS game Metroid Prime Federation Force. At E3, Tanabe and Ikebata were heavily pushing two of Luigi’s new moves in the game: a vacuum-powered hop in the air called “burst” and “slam,” the ability to slap a vacuum-tethered ghost around the room and into other ghosts like snapping a wet towel. The slam move was working on the Wii U and seems to be core to making ghost-catching in the game more exciting and satisfying."

Found this on a Kotaku interview interview. Full development probably started only after Federation Force wrapped, and by 2016 Nintendo already new they wouldn't release anything on Wii U anymore by the time the game would be ready.
Click to expand...
Oh, ok.
 
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For interviews, the next best thing is the Developer talks they do, for some games. Nin Sports, Kirby and Xenoblade had them, while Strikers did not.
Splatoon will definitely have one right? That team is very open about their ideas/work/methods etc.

After them, there is technically no in-house first party game announced, except Zelda. M+R and Bayo might do them. Pokemon most likely not. If the Prime remaster is real who knows.
 
SirArthur said:
For interviews, the next best thing is the Developer talks they do, for some games. Nin Sports, Kirby and Xenoblade had them, while Strikers did not.
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Next Level Games used to always do interview with magazines for their games with the exception of Federation Force, that is why I said it (could just be the result of COVID tho)
 
ILikeFeet said:
it's been shown off with concept art but not much beyond that. it's self-published unless they found a publisher since
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They said they wanted to self-publish their games (outside contract work) there is no reason for them to search for a publisher for the game. Only reason would be if they need help overseas to publish the game but considering these projects seem smaller in scope it will probably be digital only so no need for a bigger publisher to step in.
 
Blue Monty said:
They said they wanted to self-publish their games (outside contract work) there is no reason for them to search for a publisher for the game. Only reason would be if they need help overseas to publish the game but considering these projects seem smaller in scope it will probably be digital only so no need for a bigger publisher to step in.
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My concern is the just recent announcement of Monkey Barrels coming to Steam... with Nicalis again. I worry about Good-Feel having ANYTHING to do with Nicalis after this all came out about Tyrone Rodriguez three years ago. :/ Hope it's just a contract from before then they had to honor or something.
 
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I keep wondering why Camelot is even needed at this point? They have very few actual people working under the studio while I assume the extra help they need are hired from other Nintendo studios.
 
Comic Obsessed said:
I keep wondering why Camelot is even needed at this point? They have very few actual people working under the studio while I assume the extra help they need are hired from other Nintendo studios.
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Almost all of the outsourcing development wise is to other 3rd party studios while Camelot devs still have almost all the biggest roles in the production of the game. A small dev team can still work and Camelot seems to do fine enough with their size, no reason to drop them when they do a great job for Nintendo.
 
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