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Spoiler The Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Postgame & Spoiler Discussion Thread

Xenoblade is 1/3 for me when it comes to final villains. Zanza and Z simply don't have enough presence to really stand out, though they have a strong scene or two so it's not a complete wash.

I think what frustrates me with Z is that I actually found him quite engaging in the final confrontation. Harry Lloyd actually gets to act, and I like the back and forth between him and the party. Z being an immovable concept that the party has to confront and tear down is a pretty interesting idea - I just wish there was more of it.

It's actually a problem that I think 3 has in general with its villains. They tend to have strong concluding scenes, but not enough legwork has been done beforehand to really make it stick. We're seeing the end of character arcs we never got.

Joran especially suffers from this, as he essentially disappears from the game between Keves Castle and the Cloudkeep. As such, his resolution feels a bit out of nowhere and contrived - despite being well executed. Shania is another example.
 
I considered N as a 'main villain' in a Darth Vader way. He has a ton of presence (Harry McEntire did great), actively participates in fucking up the main cast throughout the story (him literally slicing apart the Ouroboros forms was cool af), was intimately involved in their Chapter 5 suffering, and I was invested in seeing how his story played out. Z really was the 'Emperor' in the sense of having a lot of charisma but mostly being in the background and not really feeling important til the final act, feeling like and literally being an embodiment of negative psyche.
 
Gona try the new hero/mission in a couple of days, starting my NG+
Any suggestion? Should I "just" load the NG+ save from the title screen, to recruit Nia and Melia, and start the new hero mission? Or for those contents it's enough to continue from the last save, without restarting the game from start?
 
Aostia82 said:
Gona try the new hero/mission in a couple of days, starting my NG+
Any suggestion? Should I "just" load the NG+ save from the title screen, to recruit Nia and Melia, and start the new hero mission? Or for those contents it's enough to continue from the last save, without restarting the game from start?
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Just continue the last save and you'll be able to get them, you don't need to start NG+.
 
Lol. I was in Harry’s stream and told him it needed to be a American accent for the (sob). Didn’t think he respond back lol
 
The ending

It's a nice, sweet ending. The story is mostly self contained and the conclusion wraps it up well enough, though I think 4-5-6 is really the peak of the storytelling in this game. After the first half of 6, it sort of loses a lot of its energy and momentum, but like I said, it's still a good ending that ties up the themes of this game well.

My big disappointment, if you will, is that inasmuch as this was supposed to be the "conclusion" to the trilogy, it's... not? Like, it doesn't really do anything to conclude those stories in any way that is meaningful. At the same time, the way it is is almost an acknowledgement that those stories were complete and self-contained, and didn't need a "conclusion".

Ultimately, this works better as its own standalone game than conclusion of any sort tbh. And the good thing is it mostly recognizes that, and keeps the connections larger thematic. I think it's a very sweet ending, and a great standalone story that I enjoyed on its own merits. In terms of it being an ending to the trilogy though, I'm naturally underwhelmed given, well, the lack of anything like that actually happening lol.
 
You don't really need the spoiler tag in here. :p

I really think the DLC will give people who wanted more connections to the other games what they wanted, even if it won't be everything they wish for. It's already been said but the DLC logo for 2 was the emblem for Torna, but for 3 it's the swords from each game. I'm sure they left the strongest connections for the DLC so that everyone can play the main game, but whether we like it or not it's basically what Takahashi's goal not to make too many direct connections between the Xenoblade games. He really doesn't want to go back to the ongoing narrative format they had with Xenosaga, most likely because of how things changed between Episode 1 and 2.
 
Phantom Thief said:
The ending

It's a nice, sweet ending. The story is mostly self contained and the conclusion wraps it up well enough, though I think 4-5-6 is really the peak of the storytelling in this game. After the first half of 6, it sort of loses a lot of its energy and momentum, but like I said, it's still a good ending that ties up the themes of this game well.

My big disappointment, if you will, is that inasmuch as this was supposed to be the "conclusion" to the trilogy, it's... not? Like, it doesn't really do anything to conclude those stories in any way that is meaningful. At the same time, the way it is is almost an acknowledgement that those stories were complete and self-contained, and didn't need a "conclusion".

Ultimately, this works better as its own standalone game than conclusion of any sort tbh. And the good thing is it mostly recognizes that, and keeps the connections larger thematic. I think it's a very sweet ending, and a great standalone story that I enjoyed on its own merits. In terms of it being an ending to the trilogy though, I'm naturally underwhelmed given, well, the lack of anything like that actually happening lol.
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Yeah it felt more like an epilogue than a conclusion. Like "let's see what these beloved characters and worlds got up to after the events of the games!" was turned into the basis of a new, essentially unrelated adventure.

And I actually like that the adventure is new and essentially unrelated! One of my worries after the first leak (who was it.. Imran Khan?) said that there would be returning characters I was afraid this would be an amalgamation of the two casts, but instead we got a new world, new lore, and new characters (even if they were all built out of pre-existing stuff from 1 and 2), and I'd even go as far as to say my favorite cast of the whole series.

I was really critical of it when I finished, but now that time has passed I think I appreciate it a lot more, now that I'm off the months-long high of expecting all these massive, grand, lore-heavy revelations. It's just a well-made game with a fantastic cast and a beautiful world, and that's great on its own.
 
chocolate_supra said:
I was really critical of it when I finished, but now that time has passed I think I appreciate it a lot more, now that I'm off the months-long high of expecting all these massive, grand, lore-heavy revelations. It's just a well-made game with a fantastic cast and a beautiful world, and that's great on its own.
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I didn't really have those kinds of massive expectations for the game, but I did hope for far better storytelling and plot. I hope to be there with you someday in how you feel towards the game.
 
Dunban said:
You don't really need the spoiler tag in here. :p

I really think the DLC will give people who wanted more connections to the other games what they wanted, even if it won't be everything they wish for. It's already been said but the DLC logo for 2 was the emblem for Torna, but for 3 it's the swords from each game. I'm sure they left the strongest connections for the DLC so that everyone can play the main game, but whether we like it or not it's basically what Takahashi's goal not to make too many direct connections between the Xenoblade games. He really doesn't want to go back to the ongoing narrative format they had with Xenosaga, most likely because of how things changed between Episode 1 and 2.
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I didn't need it to be Xenosaga level really, I just wanted it to be like 2. 2 weaves the line between being its own self contained thing while also being a sequel to/prequel of 1. This being the "conclusion", I wanted more of that, some other giant mind blowing revelation that comes out of nowhere and gives me a new perspective on how the worlds of these games are linked. What I got was a lot more... vestigial, and also literal. A lot of the high concept brilliance of 2 (or even 1) isn't here. It's a more human story in its conclusion than either of those is the tradeoff, and like I said, I think it is very sweet for that, but in terms of giving me the kind of "what the fuck just happened" moments of philosophical escalation (and masterful linking) that 1 and 2 have, it just doesn't deliver. It's not even that it tries to deliver and fails, it doesn't even try.

chocolate_supra said:
Yeah it felt more like an epilogue than a conclusion. Like "let's see what these beloved characters and worlds got up to after the events of the games!" was turned into the basis of a new, essentially unrelated adventure.

And I actually like that the adventure is new and essentially unrelated! One of my worries after the first leak (who was it.. Imran Khan?) said that there would be returning characters I was afraid this would be an amalgamation of the two casts, but instead we got a new world, new lore, and new characters (even if they were all built out of pre-existing stuff from 1 and 2), and I'd even go as far as to say my favorite cast of the whole series.

I was really critical of it when I finished, but now that time has passed I think I appreciate it a lot more, now that I'm off the months-long high of expecting all these massive, grand, lore-heavy revelations. It's just a well-made game with a fantastic cast and a beautiful world, and that's great on its own.
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Yeah, exactly. It's basically an epilogue, and it's barely even that. The story isn't about Nia or Melia, you could remove them from the game and replace them with any two random figures, and nothing would change, it's ultimately its own thing. Which, as I said, and you did too, isn't a bad thing at all. It excels at being what it is. I just... wanted something different in addition to what I did get, lol.
 
Phantom Thief said:
Yeah, exactly. It's basically an epilogue, and it's barely even that. The story isn't about Nia or Melia, you could remove them from the game and replace them with any two random figures, and nothing would change, it's ultimately its own thing. Which, as I said, and you did too, isn't a bad thing at all. It excels at being what it is. I just... wanted something different in addition to what I did get, lol.
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Yeah that's sort of the great yet weird thing about it. They built a story and a concept that stands so much on its on that the connections to 1 and 2 (especially Melia And Nia) end up serving as more of a fakeout. The Mechon-looking Ferronises, the queens, Uraya and the Mechonis Sword looming in the background, they all serve to build this expectation that the game is something that it ultimately isn't, which I think is why I got all worked up over what I figured it would be and then was let down when it wasn't. The game sets these expectations and then just.. goes another direction.

I actually kinda wonder if I'd like the game more if they hadn't built it out of the worlds of XB1 and 2. Have the same cast, same story, same world design, just make the queens their own characters and remove Uraya and the Sword and let it just be, the same way XB1 did before Takahashi saw his chance to Zohar the lore up. 😅

Actually no, now that I think about it.. even if it hadn't had the connections to 1&2 at the forefront, I don't think anything would've saved what they did to the story after Agnus Castle 😅

I know the cycle of rebirth is a thing in this game but what they did with Ethel, Cammuravi, and Miyabi just bugs me. It feels like it cheapens those characters' stories to the same degree as what Sonic Team has done with Shadow after Sonic Adventure 2. 😒
 
Phantom Thief said:
I didn't need it to be Xenosaga level really, I just wanted it to be like 2. 2 weaves the line between being its own self contained thing while also being a sequel to/prequel of 1. This being the "conclusion", I wanted more of that, some other giant mind blowing revelation that comes out of nowhere and gives me a new perspective on how the worlds of these games are linked. What I got was a lot more... vestigial, and also literal. A lot of the high concept brilliance of 2 (or even 1) isn't here. It's a more human story in its conclusion than either of those is the tradeoff, and like I said, I think it is very sweet for that, but in terms of giving me the kind of "what the fuck just happened" moments of philosophical escalation (and masterful linking) that 1 and 2 have, it just doesn't deliver. It's not even that it tries to deliver and fails, it doesn't even try.


Yeah, exactly. It's basically an epilogue, and it's barely even that. The story isn't about Nia or Melia, you could remove them from the game and replace them with any two random figures, and nothing would change, it's ultimately its own thing. Which, as I said, and you did too, isn't a bad thing at all. It excels at being what it is. I just... wanted something different in addition to what I did get, lol.
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I get it, I do agree that the game ran into problems after Agnus Castle. They were somewhat struggling to fit everything they did have into something more cohesive so when it came to more connections to the first two games it was hard to go beyond Melia, Nia, all the subtle nods that were there. Since they had the connections to the previous games in mind from the start I think it led them to put so many "wink, wink" moments into the game that I think most fans are hoping to see some sort of revelation to. I'm pretty sure the DLC will turn at least some of those into more meaningful. We still don't know why Riku seems to know Melia or what significance the Monado REX has to this story, and don't know how Riku ended up with the Lucky 7 to begin with or if Poppi's inclusion was just a nod. I think it's just a question of how far they'll go, because I feel like they've already setup something that is fairly immense to deliver in a DLC story.
 
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Am I the only one that DOESN'T want to see recurring characters in the DLC?
I even think Melnia were an ill fit for the main game.
Their stories had ended. In the context of their arcs, this whole addition is just weird. And neither of them suit the world and tone of this game in the first place.
 
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bellydrum said:
I didn't really have those kinds of massive expectations for the game, but I did hope for far better storytelling and plot. I hope to be there with you someday in how you feel towards the game.
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this isn't a rant towards you and just to be clear, I totally both respect and get at least some of the criticism (as the one from Phantom Thief about wanting more direct links with XC1 and XC2), but



I really think that storytelling and plot in XC3 are top tier, in the videogame landscape.
I love how they were able to keep the over-the-top approach (with mech as big as continents, hitting each others with iron fists!) but mixing the sci-fi context with a very human-being based narrative

The focus of the story is the human-being, with its fears, its weaknesses, its doubts that can stop the society and the world to evolve, to move into a new direction, just for the sake of keeping everything as it is, despite all the bad, all the greif, all the horror that the "here and now", the "as is", the "normal life" can actually bring to everybody involved. The fear of any kind of change, not knowing its outcome, can stop human beings evolution, even when the life conditions are so bad that the very vast majority of the people is suffering so much. A fear so big that can generate this massive evil, this iconic humanoid figure that basically is the fear of change itself, personified within this sci-fie context, but that actually exists also in our real world (take a look at the climat change issues: it's an elephant in the room issues, everybody is and will suffer from but nobody seems to have the strength to move toward an actuall change of behaviours). In order to fight against this villain, that is made by ourselves, we need to overcome so many obstacles, that is epic

Within all this setting, there is the wonderfully narrated love story between Mio and Noah. The original ones: M and N. It's heartbreaking, absolutely not banal/common: a man that in order to not lose his love, the woman of his life, take the wrong path, staying in the eternal presnt/now, een sacrificing everything they fought for, up until that moment. A man that lose himself, to not lose her. I loved the N drama, and the stength from M to sacrifice herself, in order to free the future, but also "her" Noah.

And within this story, there is the quality of the narrative, based on direction, scenary, facial animation, VA: everything was simply GREAT, in my opinion. The script, the lines, the photography...

I think this was a great story, greatly narrated. Very human, very well done/said/written.

I can understand people wanting more direct connection with XC1 and XC2, with the Conduit, with Klaus.
But I appreciated how, after two very long games focusing on the background/prequel story of the experiment, focusing on the struggles of those two worlds generated by the activation of the conduit to fight against their false gods, thet decided to tell the story of this world, that was born/on the brink of extinction due to those two wrongly-separated worlds to collide.

What I think is that they could have avoided to tell us since the beginning that this world was the collision of the two previously existing worlds, not showing the giant sword and titan, not showing Melia and Nia, and leavint the coup-de-theatre in-game (as they did for the last arc within XC2)

In that way, everything would have been more "fan-service" and a surprise, pleasing everybody (imho of course)
 
Phantom Thief said:
The ending

It's a nice, sweet ending. The story is mostly self contained and the conclusion wraps it up well enough, though I think 4-5-6 is really the peak of the storytelling in this game. After the first half of 6, it sort of loses a lot of its energy and momentum, but like I said, it's still a good ending that ties up the themes of this game well.

My big disappointment, if you will, is that inasmuch as this was supposed to be the "conclusion" to the trilogy, it's... not? Like, it doesn't really do anything to conclude those stories in any way that is meaningful. At the same time, the way it is is almost an acknowledgement that those stories were complete and self-contained, and didn't need a "conclusion".

Ultimately, this works better as its own standalone game than conclusion of any sort tbh. And the good thing is it mostly recognizes that, and keeps the connections larger thematic. I think it's a very sweet ending, and a great standalone story that I enjoyed on its own merits. In terms of it being an ending to the trilogy though, I'm naturally underwhelmed given, well, the lack of anything like that actually happening lol.
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I have similar complaints - so if you want some bedtime reading, you can see what I thought of it all here.

A few of my thoughts on the ending.

My less than charitable view of Origin...

And finally, what I LOVE about XC3 - and why it pisses me off as a sequel!

I have to link to all these because they're so long and people are tired of my shit - but that first bolded link in the top line speaks to a lot of what you're saying I think.

I appreciate the arguments made above I just think the devs could have done all the great stuff they did in XC3 - while also giving us better villains, a more engaging plot and a satisfying ending (note, not a happy ending, but a satisfying one).

XC3 is a great standalone game, with issues that stop me from loving it the way some people do. As a sequel, as a conclusion to saga, I think it's extremely disappointing and REALLY unsatisfying.

I do maintain some hope that the DLC can give me a bit of what I wanted out of the main game but didn't get...
 
Mr.Fletcher said:
I have similar complaints - so if you want some bedtime reading, you can see what I thought of it all here.

A few of my thoughts on the ending.

My less than charitable view of Origin...

And finally, what I LOVE about XC3 - and why it pisses me off as a sequel!

I have to link to all these because they're so long and people are tired of my shit - but that first bolded link in the top line speaks to a lot of what you're saying I think.

I appreciate the arguments made above I just think the devs could have done all the great stuff they did in XC3 - while also giving us better villains, a more engaging plot and a satisfying ending (note, not a happy ending, but a satisfying one).

XC3 is a great standalone game, with issues that stop me from loving it the way some people do. As a sequel, as a conclusion to saga, I think it's extremely disappointing and REALLY unsatisfying.

I do maintain some hope that the DLC can give me a bit of what I wanted out of the main game but didn't get...
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Yeah I agree with almost everything you say across those posts, having read all of those. I think there are some other great story moments in addition to the ones you noted, and like you I agree that 5-6 is where this game peaks, while 7 just kinda feels like a shoulder shrug.

One area where we don’t agree really interests me. It’s an area where we both have the exact opposite takeaway regarding something, and then both come away unsatisfied anyway, and I think that’s insightful about how the story of 3 is constructed. But you say that towards the end, the story and characters and narrative take a backseat to the philosophical ideas and as a fan of how 1 and especially 2 do it, you’re unhappy with that. It’s amusing because I felt the game NEVER ratcheted its philosophical musings and explorations to that level where they drive the story. This happens in both 1 and 2, there’s this sudden escalation of philosophical stakes that recontextualizes and the whole story until then, and it never happened in 3 (this is something you noted too). There’s lip service paid to some ideas - matter and antimatter, light as a medium for multiversal communication, Origin, and Z being a manifestation of humanity’s negative desire (hey there Persona), but it’s just sort of… stated and brushed under the rug? Xenoblade 1 and 2 go out of their way to properly explain and contextualize how the philosophical and metaphysical escalation works and what it means and how it fits with the story told so far. 3 doesn’t. All this stuff is sort of stated, it’s talked about a LOT, but the mechanics of it all are never understood. And I’m not expecting a post doctoral thesis on the blueprint for Origin, or the propagation of light, or any of that, but give me SOMETHING. I spent the whole game (and it’s a long game) working up to the ending, if this is the resolution at least give me the mechanics of how it all works rather than just saying “yeah this happens” and moving on.

I would actually say that if I were to judge this game based on Xenoblade’s (and Xeno as a whole’s) philosophical legacy then it’s a failure. Simply rattling of a bunch of concepts like it’s a philosophy class syllabus isn’t enough, you have to actually engage with them and integrate them into the story, and 3 doesn’t do that, and as more time is passing, I’m getting more and more disappointed in hindsight.
 
Mr.Fletcher said:
I have similar complaints - so if you want some bedtime reading, you can see what I thought of it all here.

A few of my thoughts on the ending.

My less than charitable view of Origin...

And finally, what I LOVE about XC3 - and why it pisses me off as a sequel!

I have to link to all these because they're so long and people are tired of my shit - but that first bolded link in the top line speaks to a lot of what you're saying I think.

I appreciate the arguments made above I just think the devs could have done all the great stuff they did in XC3 - while also giving us better villains, a more engaging plot and a satisfying ending (note, not a happy ending, but a satisfying one).

XC3 is a great standalone game, with issues that stop me from loving it the way some people do. As a sequel, as a conclusion to saga, I think it's extremely disappointing and REALLY unsatisfying.

I do maintain some hope that the DLC can give me a bit of what I wanted out of the main game but didn't get...
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I’ve read your comments previously & I’ve gotta say I’m right there with you for the most part.

As others have said, the game works better viewing it as a stand alone game rather than a conclusion to a trilogy.
I’ve played it through twice now & whilst I enjoyed the story a lot more after having got the interpretations from the community, it still didn't wrap things up as sufficiently as I’d hoped. I’m left with more questions than answers.

Going back to XC1. I had no expectations or clue how the game would end & I ended up loving the ending.
With XC2, the game was not marketed as a sequel in the sense of it being a continuation of events from XC2. Once again I loved the ending.
With XC3, it was absolutely marketed as a conclusion & being about the future of the worlds we saw in the first 2 games.
XC3 was the only game in the trilogy where I had expectations of the story & ending and as such those expectations were not met.

It may not sound like it but I did love the game despite the above.
 
I am much less bothered by the whole "it's barely even a sequel" thing than most of the active posters here, but I do admit that this game officially made me exhausted with narrative sequels that try to be welcoming to newcomers. When you're as niche as Xeno you obviously can't just say "play these 2 60+ hour games and their 10-20 hour expansions to get caught up" and not expect to bomb, and I still stand by what I said about this game being a good conclusion of the trilogy. However, when looking at how little the XC1 and 2 elements are leveraged during the plot itself, it almost feels they only merged Bionis and Alrest for the sake of making world-building easier. It makes me wonder how XC4 is going to be like, given that Monolith has surely heard all of the criticism.
 
Paxie said:
It makes me wonder how XC4 is going to be like, given that Monolith has surely heard all of the criticism.
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Not only the criticism, but I'm pretty sure Monolith themselves said this would be the end of this arc and whatever they do going forward won't be connected. So I expect XB4 (if they even label it as such) to be a clean break, similar to what they did with XBX.
 
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RogueyOneKenobi said:
XC3 was the only game in the trilogy where I had expectations of the story & ending and as such those expectations were not met.
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this is exactly why I wrote above that they should have avoided to tell everybody that this was a sequel of merging the two worlds, with Melia and Nia as obvious queens

Let's imagine to start the game with that battlefield scenes and the uroboros egg, start the adventure and BAM at a certain point you see Uraya titan corpse OVER THERE! And what is this City? Wait, inside the body of a GIANT SWORD? OMG that is Bionis sword, wth is happening here?!?!?

And wait..those hairs...that staff..is that Melia!? and those ears....NIA!?!?!?!? OMG!

So you are telling me that those 2 worlds were going to collide and desappear? and that Melia and Nia found this Origin-thing to save the world(s)!?

that's GREAT!


Pretty sure that this would have worked pretty well
 
Aostia82 said:
this is exactly why I wrote above that they should have avoided to tell everybody that this was a sequel of merging the two worlds, with Melia and Nia as obvious queens

Let's imagine to start the game with that battlefield scenes and the uroboros egg, start the adventure and BAM at a certain point you see Uraya titan corpse OVER THERE! And what is this City? Wait, inside the body of a GIANT SWORD? OMG that is Bionis sword, wth is happening here?!?!?

And wait..those hairs...that staff..is that Melia!? and those ears....NIA!?!?!?!? OMG!

So you are telling me that those 2 worlds were going to collide and desappear? and that Melia and Nia found this Origin-thing to save the world(s)!?

that's GREAT!


Pretty sure that this would have worked pretty well
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Without a proper payoff for it I think I'd have ended up just as disapointed as I currently am. The game just isn't concerned with the previous games' worlds, which tbf makes sense for the story they are going for (and commercially too).
 
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Btw, Origin pretty obviously is the same as Mira's core.


Brewster123 said:
Without a proper payoff for it I think I'd have ended up just as disapointed as I currently am. The game just isn't concerned with the previous games' worlds, which makes sense for the story they are going for (and commercially too).
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I don't know: I'm pretty ok with 80+ hours of narrative about those 2 worlds, honestly. They had their arc, they narrated tons of stories and details, I'd be ok with those 2 worlds simply collapsing one into each other, due to their un-natural origin (pun intended) cause by Klaus Conduit's incident, and still able to survive thanks to Melia and Nia imperfect solution

This was the story of THIS world, that was born from the other 2, that already had their fullfilling story IMHO of course :)
 
Aostia82 said:
this is exactly why I wrote above that they should have avoided to tell everybody that this was a sequel of merging the two worlds, with Melia and Nia as obvious queens

Let's imagine to start the game with that battlefield scenes and the uroboros egg, start the adventure and BAM at a certain point you see Uraya titan corpse OVER THERE! And what is this City? Wait, inside the body of a GIANT SWORD? OMG that is Bionis sword, wth is happening here?!?!?

And wait..those hairs...that staff..is that Melia!? and those ears....NIA!?!?!?!? OMG!

So you are telling me that those 2 worlds were going to collide and desappear? and that Melia and Nia found this Origin-thing to save the world(s)!?

that's GREAT!


Pretty sure that this would have worked pretty well
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Yeah, that's how I felt. I thought "If before actually playing the game we know THIS much, knowing Monolith Soft the actual twist is going to be crazy". And then it didn't almost even exist.
 
Aostia82 said:
Btw, Origin pretty obviously is the same as Mira's core.





I don't know: I'm pretty ok with 80+ hours of narrative about those 2 worlds, honestly. They had their arc, they narrated tons of stories and details, I'd be ok with those 2 worlds simply collapsing one into each other, due to their un-natural origin (pun intended) cause by Klaus Conduit's incident, and still able to survive thanks to Melia and Nia imperfect solution

This was the story of THIS world, that was born from the other 2, that already had their fullfilling story IMHO of course :)
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My point is that, for the story XC3 is going for, it'd make more sense to just not tie XC1 and XC2 in at all. Even just having their landmarks and characters in the game is going to invite speculation and expectations that the game is not concerned with meeting. The game could still work as a spiritual conclusion to Xenoblades 1 and 2, as it is quite related to them thematically, without actually including those characters. If anything, I think the message would be more focused since less time would be needed to establish what exactly happened to the old characters and worlds from the past games.
 
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I am starting to like the soundtrack a lot. Yzana Plains Day has a clock ticking and lots of atmospheric sounds, which is probably a reminder that the characters are chained to the Flame Clocks, alright, that is good and dandy, but the track as a whole is such a pleasure to listen to now that I'm carefully paying attention to it with headphones on. It never really grabbed me in-game, probably because I couldn't notice the tiny details due to having lots of noise around me (a fan for the heat of Summer, mostly).

Yzana Night also possesses similar characteristics, but the track that really is striking me is Eagus Wilderness Night. I already liked it a lot when I played the game but with headphones is just something else. It starts so whimsical, only for a wind to catch on and then proceed with a spooky sensation and peak with a sweet zurna. So, so good.
 
Síriocaz said:
I am starting to like the soundtrack a lot. Yzana Plains Day has a clock ticking and lots of atmospheric sounds, which is probably a reminder that the characters are chained to the Flame Clocks, alright, that is good and dandy, but the track as a whole is such a pleasure to listen to now that I'm carefully paying attention to it with headphones on. It never really grabbed me in-game, probably because I couldn't notice the tiny details due to having lots of noise around me (a fan for the heat of Summer, mostly).

Yzana Night also possesses similar characteristics, but the track that really is striking me is Eagus Wilderness Night. I already liked it a lot when I played the game but with headphones is just something else. It starts so whimsical, only for a wind to catch on and then proceed with a spooky sensation and peak with a sweet zurna. So, so good.
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Yeah the soundtrack has actually grown on me since I started listening to it independently of the game. I know I gushed about the Moebius battle themes a few months ago but I've since fallen in love with "Noah and N" and the Millick Meadows theme as well. Some reeeaaally good stuff in this OST.
 
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I beat the game a couple of weeks ago and am still trying to get all of my thoughts on it together; it's certainly a game that gives you a lot to think about. But I can safely say I liked it very, very much. While I do agree with the common sentiment there were quite a few plot elements under-explained and that the story really slowed down in Chapter 6, I'd say the story's general themes resonated with me more deeply than 1 or 2's did, and the character cast is now one of my favourites in JRPGs.

I can't say that I'm all that down about the game not doing as much with its connections to 1 and 2 as much as some people were hoping; that was never really a huge draw for me, and I was actually hoping that the game wouldn't rely too heavily on those connections. Guess I was satisfied on that count!
 
Harpoon said:
I beat the game a couple of weeks ago and am still trying to get all of my thoughts on it together; it's certainly a game that gives you a lot to think about. But I can safely say I liked it very, very much. While I do agree with the common sentiment there were quite a few plot elements under-explained and that the story really slowed down in Chapter 6, I'd say the story's general themes resonated with me more deeply than 1 or 2's did, and the character cast is now one of my favourites in JRPGs.

I can't say that I'm all that down about the game not doing as much with its connections to 1 and 2 as much as some people were hoping; that was never really a huge draw for me, and I was actually hoping that the game wouldn't rely too heavily on those connections. Guess I was satisfied on that count!
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Despite any minor issues I had about this game, the fact that I’m still talking about it/thinking about it long after I’ve beaten it speaks volumes.

I do love a game/story that makes me think and has me (slowly) piecing things together long after the credits have rolled.
Feels like I’m certainly getting my money’s worth with ~150hrs play time & then the enjoyment of the theories that follow (no matter how obvious or even ridiculous they may seem)

Looking forward to replaying it again in future once the dust settles & the dlc (hopefully) fills in some gaps.
 
I know a bunch of people have said that the protagonists' side stories should have all been integrated into the main plot, but my take is that they should've gone in the other direction and made Noah's and Mio's optional. After Agnus Castle you go to Captocorn to meet Nia, maaaaaybe do the shard stuff but not have Cris as part of that, and then do the final dungeon. I'd consider that a decent solution to the pacing complaints regarding the back end
chocolate_supra said:
I know the cycle of rebirth is a thing in this game but what they did with Ethel, Cammuravi, and Miyabi just bugs me. It feels like it cheapens those characters' stories to the same degree as what Sonic Team has done with Shadow after Sonic Adventure 2. 😒
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I kinda get this complaint, though I guess it depends on the extent to which you'd consider someone "reborn." Ethel and Cammuravi aren't really the same people they used to be in that they have no memory or connection to their previous lives as colony commanders; they're effectively new characters upon their reemergence from the pod, and Cammuravi's storyline from then on is about rehabilation and integration into the City. I don't think that detracts from their past selves' tragic deaths, at least

Ethel being shoved into the growth pod so she can fight again is kinda icky but I guess they really wanted her back as a Hero unit for gameplay? eh

Part of it is also that the game gives you all three of them in the same area, which to me smells like they reworked/cut something down on the premise of either budget or pacing. Honestly I kinda wonder how much of this game being sold as a continuation of XCs 1 and 2 is an excuse to do a bunch of asset reuse after they did an open world with original assets for XCX and got burned
 
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Apopheniac said:
I kinda get this complaint, though I guess it depends on the extent to which you'd consider someone "reborn." Ethel and Cammuravi aren't really the same people they used to be in that they have no memory or connection to their previous lives as colony commanders; they're effectively new characters upon their reemergence from the pod, and Cammuravi's storyline from then on is about rehabilation and integration into the City. I don't think that detracts from their past selves' tragic deaths, at least

Ethel being shoved into the growth pod so she can fight again is kinda icky but I guess they really wanted her back as a Hero unit for gameplay? eh
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I feel the game does a poor job of actually selling the rebirths as being not the same people. Characters are shown to carry over memories and feelings all the time. Cammuravi and Ethel still retain a sense that they are connected in some way and have the exact same personalities and capabilities. Plenty of characters talk about Mwamba and Heckt as if they're the same in the sidequests after chapter 6. After doing some quests, NPCs in colony 9 talk about how happy they are to say Mwamba again if he doesn't remember them. They talk about it like dealing with a friend who has amnesia rather than a whole new person. The characters in the world don't view it as a death, they're happy their friend is alive and back.

And this is something that's been bugging me about some defenses. When some say they didn't like the rebirths and chapter 6 feeling cheap for bringing characters back, others say they aren't the same and it's still like a death. But then when people say they didn't like the ending or how the reset made everything feel pointless, others say "oh but they retain memories and thoughts, Zeon's totally going to grow up to be a potato farming!" It's very contradictory. I'm not directing this at you, it's just something I've noticed over the last couple months of discussion.

Miyabi's especially a strange case. She retains her relative age to Mio instead of being 10th term the rest of the people Y experimented on which some have used as an argument for Miyabi not being reborn and just surviving the gas attack. But in a sidequest afterward, Sena questions why Mwamba and Heckt didn't retain their memories like Miyabi. It almost feels the writers themselves couldn't decide if Miyabi was reborn or not - or at least there was a lack of understanding between the main scenario writers and the sidequest writers.
 
EtherPenguin said:
I feel the game does a poor job of actually selling the rebirths as being not the same people. Characters are shown to carry over memories and feelings all the time. Cammuravi and Ethel still retain a sense that they are connected in some way and have the exact same personalities and capabilities. Plenty of characters talk about Mwamba and Heckt as if they're the same in the sidequests after chapter 6. After doing some quests, NPCs in colony 9 talk about how happy they are to say Mwamba again if he doesn't remember them. They talk about it like dealing with a friend who has amnesia rather than a whole new person. The characters in the world don't view it as a death, they're happy their friend is alive and back.

And this is something that's been bugging me about some defenses. When some say they didn't like the rebirths and chapter 6 feeling cheap for bringing characters back, others say they aren't the same and it's still like a death. But then when people say they didn't like the ending or how the reset made everything feel pointless, others say "oh but they retain memories and thoughts, Zeon's totally going to grow up to be a potato farming!" It's very contradictory. I'm not directing this at you, it's just something I've noticed over the last couple months of discussion.
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Here's my interpretation of what's going on:

There's something persistent to the concept of the individual in XC3 that allows reborn people to experience flashbacks/déjà vu about their past selves. For the sake of simplicity/annoyance, we can call it a "soul." Maybe the soul has always been a thing, maybe it's a quirk of how Origin catalogues identities. Who knows.

Reborn people do have at least the broad strokes of their personalities consistent with their past selves. This could be because of the common soul, but it could also be because their personalities were formed enough by the age of ten that continuing to churn them out of cradles at that level of development causes these minds to be consistent in their traits and worldviews.

Death is still meaningful because it compromises the continuity of consciousness and retained memories permanently. The new guy with the same name who looks and thinks kinda like the old one may inherit their soul, but they can never meaningfully inherit any experiences or relationships. Their glimpses of their past lives are merely that, and the new person must begin their life anew. People die when they are killed, and the neverending bloodshed and slaughter is no less disgusting just because new bodies replace the old ones.

The tragedy of death, the selves reduced to fleeting half-memories, is what enables a new birth for Cammuravi. Ethel's rival was a ferocious warrior, and the newly born Cammuravi was similarly trained, but while he maintains the other's values and combat capabilities, he can — and must — transition away from that life and find his place in a peaceable society. He is one representative of many Kevesi and Agnians grappling with the geopolitical shifts that have made their military skills no longer necessary or valuable, and we see in the latter half of the game other soldiers' struggles with the new reality. This theme about the reinvention of the self complements the theme about moving on from the past and making the future that Xenoblade has always been about.

Aionios and the experiences of its inhabitants inform the future world and its residents, but do not define it. We don't know what reborn Zeon and Cammuravi will do in the future, but we can hope that they continue to apply their personalities toward the preservation of peace, and that their future selves can flourish outside of the context of constant warfare.
 
My feeling when I played Eunie and Lanz Ascension quest was that the story originally unfolded in a different way, but they changed it significantly and chose to fit the (already done) old cutscenes into the game, even if some parts didn't fit that well. That feeling just got worse after that.

Once I made peace with that, I just treated these scenes as "what if" additional scenarios and a glimpse on what the story was originally planned to be, and it stopped bothering me.
 
Mio's side quest is where I immediately went from being 100% invested to not giving a shit at all. Just like that.

I'm going to side-step the rebirth issue entirely: How does this resolve Mio's story?

Right when they first meet, Noah asks,
"Those who can leave their legacy, are they content at the end? And the ones left behind, can they really come to terms with that?"

We'll never know. Mio continues Miyabi's legacy, but doesn't need to come to (final) terms with Miyabi's demise because she can see a new incarnation of her, wandering around the city and enjoying cooking contests and basically living a better life than the old her ever could have done. The loss loses its sting here, no?
It wouldn't matter if this new Miyabi was some entirely different character with someone else's soul. Because to Mio, it's still just Miyabi, just like to Taion it's still just Nimue, and they overcome their feelings of guilt and loss with a cheat code.

In the latter case, Taion burying the watch under some Saffronias was set up but never delivered. Instead he's still got it on him at the end of the game. The symbolic burial of the watch - the acceptance that someone is truly gone forever and that a void might forever persist within you - is something we never get. The game feels like it doesn't need to deal with the actual reality of bereavement, even though it fills itself with mortality and partings.

Partings: In the end the characters will never see- oh no wait, they're convinced the worlds will come together and they will meet again.

If Takahashi was a British politician we'd accuse him of cakeism.
 
Apopheniac said:
Here's my interpretation of what's going on:

There's something persistent to the concept of the individual in XC3 that allows reborn people to experience flashbacks/déjà vu about their past selves. For the sake of simplicity/annoyance, we can call it a "soul." Maybe the soul has always been a thing, maybe it's a quirk of how Origin catalogues identities. Who knows.

Reborn people do have at least the broad strokes of their personalities consistent with their past selves. This could be because of the common soul, but it could also be because their personalities were formed enough by the age of ten that continuing to churn them out of cradles at that level of development causes these minds to be consistent in their traits and worldviews.

Death is still meaningful because it compromises the continuity of consciousness and retained memories permanently. The new guy with the same name who looks and thinks kinda like the old one may inherit their soul, but they can never meaningfully inherit any experiences or relationships. Their glimpses of their past lives are merely that, and the new person must begin their life anew. People die when they are killed, and the neverending bloodshed and slaughter is no less disgusting just because new bodies replace the old ones.

The tragedy of death, the selves reduced to fleeting half-memories, is what enables a new birth for Cammuravi. Ethel's rival was a ferocious warrior, and the newly born Cammuravi was similarly trained, but while he maintains the other's values and combat capabilities, he can — and must — transition away from that life and find his place in a peaceable society. He is one representative of many Kevesi and Agnians grappling with the geopolitical shifts that have made their military skills no longer necessary or valuable, and we see in the latter half of the game other soldiers' struggles with the new reality. This theme about the reinvention of the self complements the theme about moving on from the past and making the future that Xenoblade has always been about.

Aionios and the experiences of its inhabitants inform the future world and its residents, but do not define it. We don't know what reborn Zeon and Cammuravi will do in the future, but we can hope that they continue to apply their personalities toward the preservation of peace, and that their future selves can flourish outside of the context of constant warfare.
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We are shown those memories of the past are more than just glimpses through Eunie and Ashera. Both are haunted by the memories of their past lives and find a connection in each other over it. Eunie's memories of D killing her is the basis for her character arc. Ashera is an extreme case where she still physically feels the pain of being beheaded to such an extent that it's brought her to the brink of madness.

But besides the extreme cases, I get what you're saying, it just feels too abstract for me. Like starting over without most your memories should make you essentially a new person and the loss of your old self an actual death, I get that. But the game doesn't really explore that compared to something like Nier Automata which handled the exact same concept in a way that felt more meaningful to me. Compare 2B's reactions to the new 9S after the previous one's sacrifice in the opening mission to the way Mio sees Miyabi or those Colony 9 NPCs seeing Mwamba. 2B is troubled by the system of dying and being rebuilt over and over, but xb3's characters are just happy to have their friends back and view it as a resurrection.

The characters were troubled by the system of fighting an endless war, but learning about the rebirths almost brings comfort in a way, unlike Automata. I think the writers knew this too which is why they had to throw in that bit about homecomings preventing rebirth just before Mio's to keep the stakes high.
 
Aostia82 said:
So how is with me, in thinking that the Origin has connection with Mira?
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I’ve been thinking this since the beginning and I still do…but unfortunately the game raises even more questions than answers when it comes to that. But I still believe there’s supposed to be a connection there somewhere, somehow.
 
Ngl some of the more late game quests involving multiple colony heroes are really cool to see. And it's great how the world is still changing in the post game: It felt great to finally see the gate between colony 11 and fort o'virbus open
 
Phantom Thief said:
Yeah I agree with almost everything you say across those posts, having read all of those. I think there are some other great story moments in addition to the ones you noted, and like you I agree that 5-6 is where this game peaks, while 7 just kinda feels like a shoulder shrug.

One area where we don’t agree really interests me. It’s an area where we both have the exact opposite takeaway regarding something, and then both come away unsatisfied anyway, and I think that’s insightful about how the story of 3 is constructed. But you say that towards the end, the story and characters and narrative take a backseat to the philosophical ideas and as a fan of how 1 and especially 2 do it, you’re unhappy with that. It’s amusing because I felt the game NEVER ratcheted its philosophical musings and explorations to that level where they drive the story. This happens in both 1 and 2, there’s this sudden escalation of philosophical stakes that recontextualizes and the whole story until then, and it never happened in 3 (this is something you noted too). There’s lip service paid to some ideas - matter and antimatter, light as a medium for multiversal communication, Origin, and Z being a manifestation of humanity’s negative desire (hey there Persona), but it’s just sort of… stated and brushed under the rug? Xenoblade 1 and 2 go out of their way to properly explain and contextualize how the philosophical and metaphysical escalation works and what it means and how it fits with the story told so far. 3 doesn’t. All this stuff is sort of stated, it’s talked about a LOT, but the mechanics of it all are never understood. And I’m not expecting a post doctoral thesis on the blueprint for Origin, or the propagation of light, or any of that, but give me SOMETHING. I spent the whole game (and it’s a long game) working up to the ending, if this is the resolution at least give me the mechanics of how it all works rather than just saying “yeah this happens” and moving on.

I would actually say that if I were to judge this game based on Xenoblade’s (and Xeno as a whole’s) philosophical legacy then it’s a failure. Simply rattling of a bunch of concepts like it’s a philosophy class syllabus isn’t enough, you have to actually engage with them and integrate them into the story, and 3 doesn’t do that, and as more time is passing, I’m getting more and more disappointed in hindsight.
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I hear you and I think we agree more than you think.

I think it’s the way those philosophical trappings are used in... let’s say XC2, compared to XC3 - at least for me anyway.

And I think one of the main reasons I feel the way I do comes down to how those ideas are used to bolster the characters and storytelling in XC2.

Klaus musing about the state of man recontextualises the story of XC2 as, in some sense, a battle for the soul of humankind.

His outlook gives you a new prism through which you can view the narrative and a lot of characters - Almalthus, Jin and Malos for example.

Takahashi is all but pointing back at the plot and characters you’ve just experienced and saying ‘he’s got a point, you know?’.

So they’re weaving together Klaus’ personal story, the narrative you’ve spent 70 hours playing through and the game’s central themes all in one go.

At the same time, the devs are also explaining the creation of the world, the science behind it and how and why Alrest came to be.

They‘re all working together, lifting each other up. Like you say, there‘s a much heavier philospophical bent at the end of XC2 than XC3. I agree.

But there’s so many things going on in tandem, it doesn’t just feel like the game is screaming it’s message at you.

And that’s where XC3 comes in.

You enter a room to fight an enemy whose name is a letter, an enemy who has no personality, no history, no trauma, etc.

He’s had no presence in the story and you’ve not met him before now.

The mystery of the world was cleared up hours ago and the plot is done.

The character‘s arcs are wrapped up.

So when I say characters fade into the background, it’s because the only option left for XC3 is just to have the characters start shouting themes at Z.

It’s front and centre. There’s nothing else around it.

They do jump back to earlier moments in the theatre but it just feels nowhere near as smart.

So for me, it’s not that XC3 is actually heavier in a philosophical sense at the end - it‘s just that when XC3 reaches the finish line there’s nothing else in the tank.


I’m rambling and I can’t quite find the right words, but I hope this gives you some sense of what I think. :p

RogueyOneKenobi said:
I’ve read your comments previously & I’ve gotta say I’m right there with you for the most part.

As others have said, the game works better viewing it as a stand alone game rather than a conclusion to a trilogy.
I’ve played it through twice now & whilst I enjoyed the story a lot more after having got the interpretations from the community, it still didn't wrap things up as sufficiently as I’d hoped. I’m left with more questions than answers.

Going back to XC1. I had no expectations or clue how the game would end & I ended up loving the ending.
With XC2, the game was not marketed as a sequel in the sense of it being a continuation of events from XC2. Once again I loved the ending.
With XC3, it was absolutely marketed as a conclusion & being about the future of the worlds we saw in the first 2 games.
XC3 was the only game in the trilogy where I had expectations of the story & ending and as such those expectations were not met.

It may not sound like it but I did love the game despite the above.
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I agree. While I can’t lie and say I’m not disappointed, I do love it. I hope the game has been a huge success for them.

I’m sure our thoughts are probably the minority anyway. lol
 
Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to make mention of is just how good Harry Lloyd's performance as Z is. Guy could totally find success doing an ASMR on the endless now.
 
Honestly, my fundamental issue with the villains of Xenoblade 3 is that there are too many villains and that the important villains have very limited screen time. What's the point of giving character development to Consuls like P and O when that screentime could have been better served for Consuls like X and Y who are clearly the Dickson/Lorithia to Z/Zanza? What's even worse is that if X, Y, and Z did more then they'd be much better villains.

The reason why Xenoblade 2 has the best villains is that the important villains have plenty of screen time. Jin and Malos are a constant thread throughout the narrative, D and J start off important but then they fall into the whole Metal Face/Egil situation where they served their purpose prior to the final act of the game... and don't get me started on Crys, he just suddenly appears as a villain to cap off the final chapters. All the Consul members who are part of the main story are squandered potential either because they don't have enough screen time or they're killed off way too early, that's the worst part. None of these characters are as badly developed as Gaelgar but they leave a lot to be desired because of their resolution with the exception of N, of course.

The most constant strength of the Xeno franchise has been its villains so I'm so surprised that this is the game to falter on that element.
 
50 hours into the postgame, minding my business, doing some sidequests, then all of the sudden the game decides to kill off a likeable npc. What a gut punch! In hindsight there were some hints to it, but I didn't expect any deaths in a simple sidequest, got me good...
 
Guess it's finally time to close the game on my Switch and find something else to play for a few months :(

The DLC gave me a hell of a second wind. Once back in, I decided to experiment with different builds for hours upon hours. My main complaint with the gameplay, especially in the latter half, was the slow, boring, and all-too-powerful chain attacks. Imagine my delight when I discovered that post game optimisation makes chain attacks suboptimal at best. Even without having smash in the kit, the only enemy that takes me longer than three minutes is Kilocorn Grandeps at max level on hard just because of how tanky it is and how it heals itself when enraged.

I absolutely love the combat in this game.
 
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