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Spoiler The Xenoblade Chronicles 3 Postgame & Spoiler Discussion Thread

I didn't feel that way about J at all. I felt like he was 1 out of 3 decent antagonists the game had to offer (alongside N and Shania). He was fleshed out just enough to make me think "okay I get why this person would choose the eternal now and become moebius". And that might say more about the other 20 something assholes than J himself but at least he has that going for him.

Just like Lanz and Sena were clearly not going to die in the previous chapter. With the exception of Mio in that one sequence, all the good guys feel indestructible.
The party has that air of invincibility to them, don't they? I noticed that too and it felt like it hurt the narrative sometimes. For example with D. There's nothing wrong with having a villain whose deal is simply HE'S CUHRAYZEE but he better be charismatic/imposing/whatever to compensate. D just gets humiliated badly every single time he appears, especially in Keves Castle, how am I supposed to take him seriously after watching him pathetically crawl through the floor without arms like a lizard ripping off its own tail? What can this guy possibly do to the party?
 
I didn't feel that way about J at all. I felt like he was 1 out of 3 decent antagonists the game had to offer (alongside N and Shania). He was fleshed out just enough to make me think "okay I get why this person would choose the eternal now and become moebius". And that might say more about the other 20 something assholes than J himself but at least he has that going for him.


The party has that air of invincibility to them, don't they? I noticed that too and it felt like it hurt the narrative sometimes. For example with D. There's nothing wrong with having a villain whose deal is simply HE'S CUHRAYZEE but he better be charismatic/imposing/whatever to compensate. D just gets humiliated badly every single time he appears, especially in Keves Castle, how am I supposed to take him seriously after watching him pathetically crawl through the floor without arms like a lizard ripping off its own tail? What can this guy possibly do to the party?
The problem is, having an inferiority complex as the reason to commit numerous atrocities and be a dick to your friends is never a good explanation for why someone tuned evil. It makes you go from feeling sorry for someone to making you hate them.
Both J and Shania do this and both are handed poorly. In Joran' case it also doesn't make sense that he would turn from a legitimately nice kid into a heartless monster as soon as he became mobius.
In both cases the redemption is also poor and makes everything worse. Both are turned into idiots who couldnn't realize something obvious despite pretty much everyone telling them multiple times (which also applies to N now that I think about it.)
Sena also had an inferiority complex, but she didn't turn into a mass murderer
 
Shania I agree could have been fleshed out a little more, but I still can feel what they were trying to do with her and she did leave a pretty strong impression on me. Joran, on the other hand, was very disappointing as a character for me. At first, after watching the direct, I was expecting him to have much more screen time, much more character development that would make his "death" and later his transformation much more interesting, convincing and tragic or something to that effect. But unfortunately, we had little to nothing of that and I found myself not caring for him at all even during his last moment.
 
Thinking about the story some more, I think it would have been better if after chapter 5 your mission was to try and find a way to defeat Z and keep the worlds connected. like you could have had chapter 7 be finding where melia is and rescuing her because she knows what Z's weakness is, chapter 8 focusing on finding what can defeat Z but also the characters thinking if there's a way to keep the worlds connected and chapter 9 discovering that and Finla assault against origin.
and throughout all this X/Y and Z getting better confrontations and explanations.
 
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Shania is pretty much "okay" for me, especially after doing Sena's side story (that should have been part of the main plot really), but J is genuinely "evil Juju" tier for me.

I hope it doesn't come across as fat shaming, but he looks so goofy in his Consul costume it was extremely hard for me not to find it unintentionally hilarious. And in general he basically appears 15 minutes in a flashback were he dies, then hours later I'm supposed to feel strongly about him when he gives schizo-level rants about wanting wings and freedom.
 
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The problem is, having an inferiority complex as the reason to commit numerous atrocities and be a dick to your friends is never a good explanation for why someone tuned evil. It makes you go from feeling sorry for someone to making you hate them.
Both J and Shania do this and both are handed poorly. In Joran' case it also doesn't make sense that he would turn from a legitimately nice kid into a heartless monster as soon as he became mobius.
In both cases the redemption is also poor and makes everything worse. Both are turned into idiots who couldnn't realize something obvious despite pretty much everyone telling them multiple times (which also applies to N now that I think about it.)
Sena also had an inferiority complex, but she didn't turn into a mass murderer

I think both of them could've had just one more cutscene with them showing some trace of the emotions and intentions that eventually led them to join Mobius. But i agree, Joran's case surprised me the most. Shania looked sus since the beginning imo... and in her case, it was something more than inferiority complex. There were family and political issues as well
 
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After some time and consideration.

I think the peak of the Xenoblade 1-3 series is….

Amalthus’s and Jin’s death scene. And I mean after you defeat his boss fight. not the prior scene where I think it was rather mediocre.

The music playing and Amalthus seeing the one face of humanity he used to know before dying. Then Jin dying with a look of acceptance after wanting to die for so long. It’s a pretty well done scene. Even if it wasn’t paced as well. A flashback in the middle of it was weird lol. More effective after playing Torna as well.

Also, this reminds me of how strangely empty the final lead up to Xenoblade’s 3 final boss was. I honestly expected more story or stuff to happen as we walked Origins. But nothing happened. 1&2 had a lot more going. Especially 2. even if 2 has the less spectacle of a final boss fight.
 
After some time and consideration.

I think the peak of the Xenoblade 1-3 series is….

Amalthus’s and Jin’s death scene. And I mean after you defeat his boss fight. not the prior scene where I think it was rather mediocre.

The music playing and Amalthus seeing the one face of humanity he used to know before dying. Then Jin dying with a look of acceptance after wanting to die for so long. It’s a pretty well done scene. Even if it wasn’t paced as well. A flashback in the middle of it was weird lol. More effective after playing Torna as well.

Also, this reminds me of how strangely empty the final lead up to Xenoblade’s 3 final boss was. I honestly expected more story or stuff to happen as we walked Origins. But nothing happened. 1&2 had a lot more going. Especially 2. When if 2 has the less spectacle of a final boss fight.
Ugh. Comparing the lead ups to the final bosses of 2 and 3 really shows the stark difference between the two games.
 
Yeah, ignoring my more personal gripes with how the world was handled, I definitely do think the game suffers from its emotional highpoint (End of Ch.5 / Start of Ch.6) and resolution (Post-Final Boss Sequence) being too far apart and the in-between being relatively lacking in compelling content. A lot of the stuff that happens in the last two chapters (Colony Omega, Crys, Origin Metal Hunt, A lot of Origin itself) either comes too quickly to be compelling or, atleast personally, wasn't very compelling to begin with. More character moments/interactions, like what happened in Chapters 1-5, probably would've helped here. It might be that they had a plan for this part of the game, but couldn't realize it due to a lack of time and resources. However, it definitely sticks out.
 
Ugh. Comparing the lead ups to the final bosses of 2 and 3 really shows the stark difference between the two games.
Personally. I don’t think it’s a negative for 3. At that point we knew who the final boss was and what we had to do. 2 was building anticipation for The architect and Elysium.

I was just surprise how straightforward it was for a game that took its time in cutscene lol. I was thinking we get some more character interaction. Or a talk about how it feels walking in origin. But pretty much nothing lol.
 
I was just surprise how straightforward it was for a game that took its time in cutscene lol. I was thinking we get some more character interaction. Or a talk about how it feels walking in origin. But pretty much nothing lol.
To me, that's a negative.
 
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Xenoblade 3 is a lot like Xenoblade X in a way.

The most interesting part of the story actually happens before AND after the game.



It's such a bizzarre choice to build the entire game on a "it was all a simulation, snap back to reality" resolution without giving the player almost any explainations.

It feels like they wanted to make a meta-narrative sequel to both games but they actually didn't want to go and mess with the universe of 1 and 2. The result is a sequel story that exists, but it also never existed.
 
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After some time and consideration.

I think the peak of the Xenoblade 1-3 series is….

Amalthus’s and Jin’s death scene. And I mean after you defeat his boss fight. not the prior scene where I think it was rather mediocre.

The music playing and Amalthus seeing the one face of humanity he used to know before dying. Then Jin dying with a look of acceptance after wanting to die for so long. It’s a pretty well done scene. Even if it wasn’t paced as well. A flashback in the middle of it was weird lol. More effective after playing Torna as well.

Also, this reminds me of how strangely empty the final lead up to Xenoblade’s 3 final boss was. I honestly expected more story or stuff to happen as we walked Origins. But nothing happened. 1&2 had a lot more going. Especially 2. even if 2 has the less spectacle of a final boss fight.

Yeah, the buildup in the first two games (XC2 in particular) was way better, you could feel that something big was going to happen. Chapter 7 was the most underwhelming by far, it begins with a fetch quest, then it has some interesting side stories before going to Origin, where it becomes a very straightforward march to the final boss. It definitely lacked that Wow Factor that was present in the first two games. The final battle is my favorite in all of the 3 games though (even though the implementation wasn't so good and Malos, for instance, was a much better archnemesis)
 
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No, it's explicitly stated by other characters, most damningly by Z himself
I would exclude Z since he would say anything if it meant keeping his world intact as we see when he warns Noah that freeing the worlds from his control would lead to destruction. What other characters bring it up though?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what happens at the end is that the 2 universes simply phase through each other instead of destroying each other, just like Noah assumed it was possible when he asked Z how he could be so sure destruction was inevitable without any concrete proof?
There's several different interpretations at the moment. Personally I think the original universes of XC and XC2 destroyed each other and everything after the opening cutscene of young Noah is taking place within Origin.
 
There's several different interpretations at the moment. Personally I think the original universes of XC and XC2 destroyed each other and everything after the opening cutscene of young Noah is taking place within Origin.

Even the post credit scene?
 
Yes, the post-credit scene is after Nia and Melia successfully restarted Origin. The original universes are dead, but everything will move on within Origin. The reason we go back to young Noah is because Origin was programmed to start right at the moment both universes ended.

I have to say, I put 115h into this game, I did all the side content, and I've absolutely no clear idea of what the biggest plot device in the game is actually supposed to do.

I thought it was an Ark of some sort that would have re-created the two universes in the cases they'd destroy each other. But apparently it is basically the Lifehold from Xenoblade X + a simulator?



EDIT: unrelated, but is "A" the only letter that is not a Consul?
 
XC2 definitely has a more action-packed, plot-rich final third. It brings so much together, in an ever-escalating melting pot.

XC does actually face a slightly similar downturn to XC3 after the events in the Mechonis Core, but even that game has more going on in the space between that moment and the conclusion.

It's so strange, we heard talk of XC3 being sat on for months - we did also hear they were having trouble with optimisation though, so that doesn't mean it was ready to go, but the general impression we got from whispers on the internet was that it was done and dusted in terms of content.

They were so far ahead, the release date could be shifted up from September to July.

And while XC3 feels much more polished than the other games, it does feel like stuff was cut or they just ran out of road at the end. Chapter 6 and 7 feel a little limp - and there's only 7 chapters in total, so it's not exactly a small portion of the game.

I think in truth, this is the story Takahashi wanted to tell and that's it, but I wonder what the team thinks looking at the feedback the final chunk of the game is getting. XC3 is great no doubt, it's a critical and commercial success. Let's make that much clear.

But I've always felt Monolith Soft were quite infatuated with their fans and making them happy, so I wonder if the mixed view of the final stretch irks them at all, or causes them food for thought.


I hope, if nothing else, the response forces Takahashi and co to really double down and explain what Origin is in the DLC. The jumbled mess of an explanation we've got is awful. No one can make heard or arse of it.
 
I find it funny how this game ended up similar to Eva 3.0+1.0, incomprehensible ending with zero explainations that seemingly resets everything included.
 
I find it funny how this game ended up similar to Eva 3.0+1.0, incomprehensible ending with zero explainations that seemingly resets everything included.
I don’t agree that the ending is incomprehensible honestly.

I’m honestly surprised some think “it” didn’t happen cause of the shot of Noah at the end.
 
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After some time and consideration.

I think the peak of the Xenoblade 1-3 series is….

Amalthus’s and Jin’s death scene. And I mean after you defeat his boss fight. not the prior scene where I think it was rather mediocre.

The music playing and Amalthus seeing the one face of humanity he used to know before dying. Then Jin dying with a look of acceptance after wanting to die for so long. It’s a pretty well done scene. Even if it wasn’t paced as well. A flashback in the middle of it was weird lol. More effective after playing Torna as well.

Also, this reminds me of how strangely empty the final lead up to Xenoblade’s 3 final boss was. I honestly expected more story or stuff to happen as we walked Origins. But nothing happened. 1&2 had a lot more going. Especially 2. even if 2 has the less spectacle of a final boss fight.
A solid second place, but it doesn’t come close to the actual peak of the franchise: Zeke’s introduction.
 
I have to say, I put 115h into this game, I did all the side content, and I've absolutely no clear idea of what the biggest plot device in the game is actually supposed to do.
Origin was pretty much a shot in the dark for Melia and Nia. The collision of both universes was inevitable so they had Origin constructed in the hope that the recreated worlds within it would continue on after the originals were destroyed.
EDIT: unrelated, but is "A" the only letter that is not a Consul?
Yup, my thoughts on that is Aionios itself is Moebius A. Z forced the recreated worlds within Origin to interlink which is why the land is experiencing annihilation events and why the worlds split apart not long after Z is defeated.
 
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A solid second place, but it doesn’t come close to the actual peak of the franchise: Zeke’s introduction.
Please.

PLEASE.

Malos vs Rex in chapter 1 is peak Xenoblade in all honestly.

Also, turters deserved more then one scene.

Actually. In all seriousness, it’s pretty rare for a JRPG to have the first major boss to be the final boss as well, even with them be a consistent presence and boss fight throughout lol.
 
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Even the post credit scene?
Yes - my interpretation is that the post-credits scene takes place in a successfully rebooted universe created by Origin.

For a few reasons:

  • this way the universes didn't inexplicably shoot apart again for no reason and the collision happened as expected
  • it would explain why, while young Noah hadn't personally experienced Aionios, he'd still have a wisp of recognition about Mio's flute melody
 
everything will move on within Origin.
Just to nitpick, but neither Aionios nor the new universe(s) are "inside" Origin - they're created by Origin, just not housed within it like a software program. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to go to Origin as a location within Aionios (a computer can't contain an exact recursive replica of itself)
 
It really does feel like an entire Chapter or two is missing from Xenoblade 3. Like some seriously major content was cut.
 
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Just to nitpick, but neither Aionios nor the new universe(s) are "inside" Origin - they're created by Origin, just not housed within it like a software program. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to go to Origin as a location within Aionios (a computer can't contain an exact recursive replica of itself)

My read too.

Origin created the universe we see at the end and it is as much a simulation as XC1's universe was. (It wasn't) They were made basically the same way.

These worlds are made by reality-creating-Xenoblade-magic machines be it the Trinity Processor hooked up to the Conduit or Origin. They aren't "simulated."
 
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Yes - my interpretation is that the post-credits scene takes place in a successfully rebooted universe created by Origin.

For a few reasons:

  • this way the universes didn't inexplicably shoot apart again for no reason and the collision happened as expected
  • it would explain why, while young Noah hadn't personally experienced Aionios, he'd still have a wisp of recognition about Mio's flute melody

To be honest point 2 could be explained as easily by the power of love trascending time, space and existance itself. It doesn't bother me too much, it's fate for Noah and Mio to meet.

Also what is powerful enough to re-create a universe now that the Conduit is gone, seemingly forever?

We'll probably get a better understanding with the DLC but as things stand I don't think we can go much further than picking our favorite headcanons.




Speaking of DLC, I hope we get Poppi as a hero.
 
Also what is powerful enough to re-create a universe now that the Conduit is gone, seemingly forever?
This is one of my biggest dislikes about the story.

It kind of devalues the entire concept of the Conduit if Tora can, in the span of about 20 years, design and build a machine that can create a universe
 
This is one of my biggest dislikes about the story.

It kind of devalues the entire concept of the Conduit if Tora can, in the span of about 20 years, design and build a machine that can create a universe
He basically created a person with their own emotions and able to act on their own free will.

If Rex gets him the supplies. Anything is possible for tora 🧐
 
This is one of my biggest dislikes about the story.

It kind of devalues the entire concept of the Conduit if Tora can, in the span of about 20 years, design and build a machine that can create a universe

I mean Pyra and Mythra were there. For hundreds of years aside from managing blades and titans they were also hooked up to the Conduit. They also had a direct connection to the Conduit's power for the climax of XC2. Maybe they picked up some info they passed to Tora. They still had their core crystals at the end of 2 with the info needed theoretically there.

Shulk and the Machina probably helped. Shulk was techy and Machina worked with machines and their lifespans are like centuries, I'm sure the High Entia had some research lying around.

He basically created a person with their own emotions and able to act on their own free will.

If Rex gets him the supplies. Anything is possible for tora 🧐

Poppi herself probably did the lion's share of work lmao
 
I mean Pyra and Mythra were there. For hundreds of years aside from managing blades and titans they were also hooked up to the Conduit. They also had a direct connection to the Conduit's power for the climax of XC2. Maybe they picked up some info they passed to Tora. They still had their core crystals at the end of 2 with the info needed theoretically there.

Shulk and the Machina probably helped. Shulk was techy and Machina worked with machines and their lifespans are like centuries, I'm sure the High Entia had some research lying around.



Poppi herself probably did the lion's share of work lmao

Pyra and Mythra's link with the Conduit explicitely ended with Klaus' death in XC2.
 
Just to nitpick, but neither Aionios nor the new universe(s) are "inside" Origin - they're created by Origin, just not housed within it like a software program. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to go to Origin as a location within Aionios (a computer can't contain an exact recursive replica of itself)
I believe the Origin we go to in Aionios is the database of the system not an exact copy of the original device. That's why "metal" and "cogs" from it are capable of producing Lucky Seven and the Ouroboros stones. They're not physical pieces of the actual machine, but more like snippets of Origins' foundational code which is why they are able to create weapons capable of feats other weapons can't do and allow two separate individuals to interlink.
This is one of my biggest dislikes about the story.

It kind of devalues the entire concept of the Conduit if Tora can, in the span of about 20 years, design and build a machine that can create a universe
Not if the Conduit, like Origin, housed a replica of a previously destroyed universe and it was the nopon that created it.

Anyway I doubt Tora alone designed and built Origin. He may have been the chief architect on the Alrest side, but I'm sure it was a monumental undertaking from both worlds.
 
It’s crazy that Origin is so poorly explained when it’s perhaps the biggest leap in logic the series has ever asked us to make.

We‘ve got two halves of a giant mechanical ark, built in different universes that are meant to align at the convergence of those worlds and recreate life on a mass scale.

It is, really, the most over the top, ridiculous thing in the franchise ever. It’s so fanciful, unusually so for the series.

Xenoblade has always tried to ground some of it‘s craziest stuff in some scientific explanation, not because it really matters, but because it contains the tone. It wrestles it into line.

In XC3, Nia’s basically like yeah, we built it, it was bloody hard, but there it is… lol

You can look at the XC2 side - core crystals specifically - and kind of get on board with the idea of Origin housing the ‘code for human life’…

… but the rest is such a leap in logic, it’s bonkers.

The idea of mankind experimenting on things they don’t truly understand with disastrous results is a common trope in sci-fi media. The multiverse is also something of a recognised idea.

You nod along at these things as they’re introduced in XC2 because there’s almost… a universal understanding of these things. These ideas are popularised.

They didn’t need to say that the Cloud Sea was actually a bunch of nano-machine reconstructors because let’s be real, we’ve got no idea how that actually works - but it’s something to hang on to, to grip on to and interpret.

Origin is probably one of the most outlandish sci-fi mechanics ever, and it’s paired with an enemy that is a philosophical concept born from the fear of man.

It’s either so ridiculous that, in time, it’s going to come back round to being amazing - or it’s just going to remain ridiculous.

It would have been a big thing to get on board with, even if it was explained well…
 
Considering what they did with Mio/Rex/Nia, do you think there is a chance the original Eunie is Shulk and Melia's daughter?
 
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I believe the Origin we go to in Aionios is the database of the system not an exact copy of the original device. That's why "metal" and "cogs" from it are capable of producing Lucky Seven and the Ouroboros stones.
You're using this like it's evidence, when it works just as well the other way around.

They're not physical pieces of the actual machine, but more like snippets of Origins' foundational code which is why they are able to create weapons capable of feats other weapons can't do and allow two separate individuals to interlink.

I mean at this point you're creating headcanon to make things make sense. For all intents and purposes, and based on how every single person refers to it in the game, and based on the diagram we see in Nia's story, the giant sphere in the center of Aionios is Origin.

If you're to say that it's not Origin, and instead it's the database or something, that's once again assuming that what the game is directly telling you is false, and that instead something else that the game isn't telling you is true.

I prefer going by what the game tells us, not basing my understanding on speculation and asserting it's the truth, despite conflicting evidence.

Not if the Conduit, like Origin, housed a replica of a previously destroyed universe
I don't understand what you mean by this, or how it relates to what you're responding to. Even if the Conduit does house a replica of a previously destroyed universe, the Conduit itself was not in the universe of Bionis and Mechonis. Alvis, a computer that was powered by the Conduit, was.

and it was the nopon that created it.
"Not if the Nopon created the Conduit" is that what you're saying? At this point I'm done making universe-sized reaches and what-ifs in order to try and make things make sense.

I'm not going to make speculations based on the assumption that the Nopon created the Conduit

Anyway I doubt Tora alone designed and built Origin. He may have been the chief architect on the Alrest side, but I'm sure it was a monumental undertaking from both worlds.
I don't understand how that makes it any less ridiculous that our main characters from 1 and 2 banded together and created a new Conduit in about 20 years.

Pyra and Mythra may have knowledge, but they're certainly neither connected to the Conduit nor the Trinity Processor database anymore. Especially if you account for the theory that their memories were wiped (it appears that Mythra says "hajimemashite", or "nice to meet you", in the final scene of 2), they probably weren't doing much to contribute towards creation of a Conduit 2.
 
It’s crazy that Origin is so poorly explained when it’s perhaps the biggest leap in logic the series has ever asked us to make.

We‘ve got two halves of a giant mechanical ark, built in different universes that are meant to align at the convergence of those worlds and recreate life on a mass scale.

It is, really, the most over the top, ridiculous thing in the franchise ever. It’s so fanciful, unusually so for the series.

Xenoblade has always tried to ground some of it‘s craziest stuff in some scientific explanation, not because it really matters, but because it contains the tone. It wrestles it into line.

In XC3, Nia’s basically like yeah, we built it, it was bloody hard, but there it is… lol

You can look at the XC2 side - core crystals specifically - and kind of get on board with the idea of Origin housing the ‘code for human life’…

… but the rest is such a leap in logic, it’s bonkers.

The idea of mankind experimenting on things they don’t truly understand with disastrous results is a common trope in sci-fi media. The multiverse is also something of a recognised idea.

You nod along at these things as they’re introduced in XC2 because there’s almost… a universal understanding of these things. These ideas are popularised.

They didn’t need to say that the Cloud Sea was actually a bunch of nano-machine reconstructors because let’s be real, we’ve got no idea how that actually works - but it’s something to hang on to, to grip on to and interpret.

Origin is probably one of the most outlandish sci-fi mechanics ever, and it’s paired with an enemy that is a philosophical concept born from the fear of man.

It’s either so ridiculous that, in time, it’s going to come back round to being amazing - or it’s just going to remain ridiculous.

It would have been a big thing to get on board with, even if it was explained well…

I'm actually getting kind of annoyed at people trying to convince others that "it's not that weird, and it makes sense because ____"
 
I feel like Takahashi considering this the end of the Klaus saga means the worlds are now fully free from Klaus's influence. Looking around at different reactions, I've seen a lot of people interpret it that way.

With that in mind, the idea of Origin being built on the core crystal technology and working similarly should go against what's being expressed. But at the same time, how else could they build all this stuff? 2's world has the relics of all the technology from Klaus and his world, and they can reverse engineer it and learn a lot from it. How can they ever truly be from his influence?
 
Like, I absolutely loved this game.

The class system is a really fun aspect to introduce to the Xenoblade seres' combat system — even if it sort of makes each character less unique.

The exploration is fantastic, with plenty of secret areas, hidden surprises, and unique monsters — even if the landscapes and vistas are nowhere near as fantastical and awe-inspiring as 1 and 2's.

The sidequests are fantastic.

And the premise is inarguably gripping. I know for a fact that we were all sucked in by the intriguing implications that all the prerelease material provided.

The biggest problem I have with the game is how it handled the explanation of the universe, the explorable world, and the antagonist(s). And this brings the game down a non-insignificant amount in my eyes, especially after the perfectly tied bow that Xenoblade 2 left on the story.
 
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I feel like Takahashi considering this the end of the Klaus saga means the worlds are now fully free from Klaus's influence. Looking around at different reactions, I've seen a lot of people interpret it that way.

With that in mind, the idea of Origin being built on the core crystal technology and working similarly should go against what's being expressed. But at the same time, how else could they build all this stuff? 2's world has the relics of all the technology from Klaus and his world, and they can reverse engineer it and learn a lot from it. How can they ever truly be from his influence?

I see the universes as free from his influence in that the decision Klaus made no longer has an effect on their worlds. Even if the entire datasets of their universes essentially was a result of his folly.
 
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  • If Mio is Nia's daughter, how old is she? How do blade children age? Brain hurty.
I don't think Mio is necessarily Nia's daughter, but my impression is that the Origin model used for her is Nia's daughter. That would open the door to where are Pyra and Mithra's kids though.

Personally, I would like to think Mio is a descendant of Nia or a copy of her daughter, and the same regarding Noah and Shulk. At least, that's how I can see why these two have so much focus during the eternal cycles.
 
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speaking of the many, many unexplained stuff in the game, did we ever get an explanation of what exactly Ouroboros is or is it just "the embodiment of hope"?
I'm pretty sure it was stated that it was developed through Nia (so maybe Aegis technology) to fight Moebius and their form of interlinking. I don't think it's meant to be much more but I do think we will learn more in the DLC (especially if it's about the Founders).
 
I'm pretty sure it was stated that it was developed through Nia (so maybe Aegis technology) to fight Moebius and their form of interlinking. I don't think it's meant to be much more but I do think we will learn more in the DLC (especially if it's about the Founders).
I hope so. with all the unanswered questions popping up it feels like half of the story is missing.
 
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speaking of the many, many unexplained stuff in the game, did we ever get an explanation of what exactly Ouroboros is or is it just "the embodiment of hope"?
The ouroboros stone was made from Nia's core and the Origin steel. It's unique properties were tied to this combination, I would imagine.
 
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To be completely honest, I have no idea why Nia would be a Queen in the first place.

The political landscape of Alrest after the events of XC2 is super interesting to me. A "Future Connected" for XC2 would be incredibly hype.
 
The problem is, having an inferiority complex as the reason to commit numerous atrocities and be a dick to your friends is never a good explanation for why someone tuned evil. It makes you go from feeling sorry for someone to making you hate them.
Both J and Shania do this and both are handed poorly. In Joran' case it also doesn't make sense that he would turn from a legitimately nice kid into a heartless monster as soon as he became mobius.
In both cases the redemption is also poor and makes everything worse. Both are turned into idiots who couldnn't realize something obvious despite pretty much everyone telling them multiple times (which also applies to N now that I think about it.)
Sena also had an inferiority complex, but she didn't turn into a mass murderer
Nah, I feel your reading of him is way too uncharitable, and I say that as someone who thought the bad guys were very disappointing in this game.

No reason is a good reason to commit mass murder. Does anyone really think N or Jin were more justified in killing people because a cute girl was involved? His reason starting from an inferiority complex is a good base as any for an antagonist.

You are forgetting his transformation from sweet kid putting a strong front into J involves gaining the knowledge the he's always been a bullied fat loser getting comically run over by levnises or whatever in every single lifetime, also that people don't really die and are just reborn to keep fighting the pointless war. Harder to keep holding onto hope after that when he already wasn't in the strongest position in the first place.

Your point that they were idiots who just couldn't realize something obvious feels wildly off the mark, like asking why someone in deep depression hasn't just tried being happy. The game gets so, so preachy with this shit in the last chapter that it is hard to miss the point being made.

"Why do you insist on punishing yourself like this?"
"You took the wrong path, and then you had to walk it alone"
"Regret owns you"
"If only I'd made the right choice"
"If what happened, hadn't"
"Clinging to the past, obsessively"
"What you've become is regret itself"
"You could try to move forwards again" "After so long?"
"Regret is our be all and end all"
"Blindly we never tried to change ourselves, wishing only that the world would instead"

All of these are said in the context of N but it's clear it applies on some level to all Moebius (at least the ones that have actual characters) based on how moebius' true nature is described. There's a reason why N, Joran and Shania are the characters most prominently displayed when confronting Z at the end. There's also a reason why J and Shania's powers as Moebius are warped reflections of what they actually loved but couldn't do either because the world fucked him over (Joran) or because she made the wrong choice (Shania). People so consumed by regret, people so convinced that "welp, it's already fucked, no point to it, no choices left, unfixable, no hope for me" that they have bogged themselves down into a personal hell of their own creation and are now too afraid to escape because of all the time, effort and actions wasted into self-torturing delusions. Notice how Aionios itself is self-made hell, and the moebius fight to protect it.

N, J and Shania do an at least adequate job of representing all of this, I feel (compared to the other 20 something assholes)

I would exclude Z since he would say anything if it meant keeping his world intact as we see when he warns Noah that freeing the worlds from his control would lead to destruction. What other characters bring it up though?
In the flashback from 1000 years ago where Crys and M create the homecoming ceremony the consul that was about to execute the soldier remarks the same thing. Homecomers don't reincarnate in this system.
 
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