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Discussion The Super Mario Bros. Movie impressions/previews thread
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Dusa
Bob-omb
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There are literally well-written story-centric Mario games, that's INCREDIBLY weak as a defense. A literal skill issue that these people couldn't make an interesting Mario movie.
Clov
An ethernet cable girlfriend
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Now this is something I can agree with!
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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Thinking I might wearing my Sonic shirt when I see this
From the POV of movie plot, there really aren't.
Mario is a character that has zero character development. He's already a nice every man who will end every story as a ... nice every man.
Mario has zero character dilemmas. Batman hunts criminals to overcome the trauma of his murdered parents. Spider-Man is a nobody teenager who gains incredible powers but learns the hard way when his Uncle Ben is killed that great power comes with great responsibility. You can work with that even from base comic book characters. Even Shrek has to learn to love himself and let go of the ugly ogre stereotype that's hung around him (beauty is skin deep only and all that jazz). Mario has none of those things going for him.
The main conflict (the heart and soul of all drama) is weak (a dinosaur wants the Princess and stars) and low stakes. Bowser doesn't even really hate Mario, per Miyamoto they're just friends who are acting out a play, lol.
None of the characters really have any overwhelming personality, like Jack Black as Bowser is probably bringing the most personality to the Mario IP that there ever has been just because he is Jack Black.
There isn't even any romantic tension really, Mario and Peach are more platonic friends than lovers so you don't even really have the romance that even Disney animated film like Tangled or Aladdin would have.
Like I love the Mario games, but for a screenwriter it's not like any of this screams "holy crap! what a wealth of dramatic potential to work with!".
Really the root of the Mario character is that the Popeye license was too expensive for Nintendo circa 1980 or whatever to use so they made a generic knock-off type character and named him Mario because the guy who ran Mario's warehouse was named Mario. lol, like all of this is totally random.
Fun environments and platforming set pieces are great and if you're a Mario fanatic, I'm sure that'll probably be enough, but you have to understand from the POV of film critics, they're not going to be impressed with that. Film critics ripped Sony's Uncharted (probably the most "movie like" game IP there is) a new one too.
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Dusa
Bob-omb
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This argument is true for a LEGO movie too. What don't you get about that? Before LEGO Movie, the premise of a great LEGO Movie is seen as ridiculous. And the LEGO Movie also stands to show how LEGO-fied versions of characters can be completely different from how they're portrayed. The entire purpose of the LEGO Movie was to lampoon Batman. They literally could have made Mario averse to the Mushroom Kingdom and want to get back to Brooklyn, which is itself a pretty generic plot but it's something. It could have been played for laughs that all these staples that are defined by Mario are weird and annoying to him.
Simply put, a screenwriter who can't make a great Mario movie and a bad screenwriter are mutually inclusive terms. Like, how can you argue that Mario is an inflexible story in a world where one of the best video game movies of all time is an Angry Birds movie?
I mean if Mario's RT score holds 55 or goes up a tad it is actually in the higher tier of video game movie reviews. The only movies higher than that would be the Sonic films and Great Detective Pikachu, but it would be higher than Tomb Raider, Mortal Kombat, Uncharted, Warcraft, Angry Birds 1 and 2, Ratchet & Blank, etc. etc. etc.
The LEGO movie was a freak one off that could afford to have fun spoofing well known DC characters like Batman because WB knows that isn't the "real" Batman it's just the "for kids" Batman. If that was the only on screen representation of Batman, you can bet WB would be up the LEGO screenwriters ass about "well you can't do that, you can't do this, Batman wouldn't do that, etc. etc. etc. ".
This is Nintendo's only Mario movie. They're going to be strict about how far you can subvert the main idea. Just how the cookie crumbles.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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"Nintendo made the movie bad" isn't indication that a game with a weak story can't be made into a good movie, it's an indication that Nintendo games can't be good movies
bixente
Tingle
One of my favourite movies has a 43 critic rating.
These scores are irrelevant imo.
Plenty of fans will love it.
It can be good, but odds are it's a high mountain to climb when you have no dramatic foundation to work from. No conflict, no interesting characters, no character dilemma, no sex obviously, but not even romance, probably not even a real kiss that a G rated Disney movie would have.
That's not to say Mario has done something wrong but not having those elements, it's just that they weren't needed for a video game and so they aren't present for someone trying to make a movie from the concept to work from.
The first Transformers movie from Michael Bay that a lot of the public liked for whatever reason got 57% on Rotten Tomatoes and frankly Michael Bay (say what you want about him) ... 55 for a Mario movie sounds ... honestly about right.
Yeah it was nice to hope that maybe they could pull a miracle out of their ass (which is what the LEGO Movie was), but licensed toy line/game movies are simply more statistically likely to end up in the "Transformers/GI Joe/Angry Birds/Uncharted/Tomb Raider/Warcraft" pile. Even Sonic as a movie property has probably outperformed its core concept in large part because Jim Carrey can still carry entire portions of a movie with his manic comedy.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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Okay but that's not because the source material is averse to a good movie, it's because the executives sabotage good movies.
Clov
An ethernet cable girlfriend
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Meanwhile the original 1986 animated Transformers movie kicks ass. No excuses for Mario!
No, it's because it's not that easy to create something from a property that has basically no story, no dramatic tension, no conflict, what does Bowser even want to do to Peach? Hook up with her? Kill her? Is there anything interesting there to even work with?
You're frankly not going to get like A-list writer/director to work on this project either, because really a movie takes 2-3 years out of the life of a writer or director, how many top level directors really want to dedicate 2-3 years of their creative life to a movie based on a video game? I'd say not very many.
I love the 86 Transformers movie, but that got absolutely shredded by critics. It's something you can like if you really love the base material but I remember watching it with a friend (who wasn't into the animated show) a few years ago and he was like "what ... the fuck is this shit", lol.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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"Why would anyone want to make a movie about LEGOs"
Again, just hire people who are creative and stop sabotaging them.
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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Quite possibly the greatest piece of fiction ever created!
I mean who says they didn't ask? How many top level writers in Hollywood do you think want to take years out of their life to work on a Mario movie? I mean I love Mario than probably anyone in Hollywood but if I was a top level screenwriter or director who had their pick of top projects to work on, honestly Mario wouldn't be something I'd likely want go out of my way to work on. Legend of Zelda? OK now maybe we're talking because there's much more story and potential there to work with.
People need to be somewhat realistic.
And like jeezus just because the LEGO movie is a one off freak success doesn't mean that is the standard for toy line/video game movies. The fact of the matter is 90% of these movies are sub-70% on Rotten Tomatoes.
Saying "well just make it as good as the LEGO movie" is like saying "well just be as good as Ghostbusters 1" for every ghost related movie. It's not that easy.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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That they asked is literally in support of what I said
Why would they want to do a LEGO Movie? There's exactly as much reason to want to make a LEGO Movie as there is a Mario movie, and I feel like you're just coming up with excuses to make it seem like it was an inevitability.
Your argument CANNOT work in a world where there's a great Angry Birds movie. "Who would want to make Angry Birds?" "What could you do with Angry Birds?" Two questions we know are "they director of Angry Birds 2" and "a lot, apparently."
Clov
An ethernet cable girlfriend
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That was only because they were fools! The movie is extremely funny and introduces some of the coolest toy robots ever, including a giant Orson Welles robot and Arcee, one of the first TRANSformers. Great animation, fun performances, and hilarious music choices (including a Weird Al classic!) make it a great time! You don't even really need the base material, since most of the major characters (Hot Rod, Ultra Magnus, Kup, Arcee, Unicron) are only introduced in this movie.
And while I know you agree, it just goes to show that you can take something as simple as silly toy robots and make something great out of it!
The first Angry Birds movie (the one that I presume was setting up subsequent films) scored 43% on Rotten Tomatoes. So if that franchise is the metric you're going to use, then by that metric, Mario is ahead of the game as the first Mario movie is reviewing better than that one and almost certainly a lock to destroy it's box office take too.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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Your argument would be using Angry Birds as proof that you can't make an Angry Birds movie, so your logic would also necessitate that the setup from the Mario movie wouldn't lead to a good movie because there's nothing you can do with it.
Maybe Mario 2 will be better? Who knows maybe (gasp!) you will even like this Mario movie? It's not like it's reviewing like total dog shit, there are movies that have 50-range RT scores that I enjoy just fine.
Didn't most video game fans say the Uncharted movie was pretty decent? What's that on RT? 40-something percent? That leads me to believe most game fans will probably enjoy Mario.
If you're not into the video game and you're expecting like some kind of top end Disney animated product or LEGO movie or bust ... OK fine, sit and pout and stomp your feet. But maybe your expectations are kind of out of wack.
Clov
An ethernet cable girlfriend
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What video game fans think is never a barometer for anything good. Never trust the opinion of a gamer!
Dusa
Bob-omb
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I'm not arguing that it's bad, I'm arguing that if it's bad, it isn't because Mario has inherent issues that prevent it from being good EXCEPT that Nintendo is overseeing it. Your argument amounts to "the series with multiple games with great stories couldn't have a great story." Paper Mario, a game where the main villain is Bowser and the main quest is to rescue-a the princess, has a great story. There's no reason to assume that the audience or critics would be averse to an interesting Mario movie, and it's honestly ridiculous that you think this.
Essentially, every example of something turning out good despite being in a similar situation to Mario doesn't count, and each one has a different excuse. Well, Occam's Razor tells me that the reason LEGO can get get a good movie and Angry Birds can get a good movie and Transformers can get a good movie is because Nintendo fucked it up, not because there's a scientific metric that deems Transformers and LEGO and Angry Birds to have potential that Mario doesn't.
Tamantayoshi
Bob-omb
Uncharted was pretty good, I enjoyed the way they mixed all the elements/setpieces from the 4 games.
AtomicZach
Koopa
Wait, but if you say to never trust a gamer while you are a gamer than we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you which means we shouldn't trust you which means we should trust you and ergo the Uncharted Movie must be the greatest movie ever made!
Clov
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Excuse me??? I'm not a gamer. This is the second worst thing someone on this forum called me.
You might say Paper Mario has a "great story", but I think plenty of critics would wipe their ass with a Paper Mario movie too if I'm being honest.
If there's been a great Transformers movie post-1986 I certainly haven't seen it. People hyped up that Bumblebee movie as being "real Transformers" but I found it very average and the Michael Bay ones ... yeah no thanks. I'd rather watch Armageddon four times straight.
LEGO is just a fluke success story, those two writers are really, really good who were underrated by coming from the world of TV animation, but they're written like 4 solidly reviewed movies, they are a rarity.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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They called you Not-Vivian???
Clov
An ethernet cable girlfriend
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They went and misgendered me, so basically yes!
Dusa
Bob-omb
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"Paper Mario and the Mario movie are just as likely to get a bad review for story"
Me when someone argues that a game with lots of original characters and a fun story that is neither too complex nor too basic would be received as well as a basic Mario origin plot so that everyone knows he's from Brooklyn
Your argument at this point is claiming that critics just have a bias against Mario lol
Yeah how crazy for Nintendo wanting to do a Mario origin movie for a first Mario movie, lol.
Like we were expecting something different than that? Really?
I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm saying it's rare and the numbers bare that out when you look at video game movies, there's been like 20 of them since Mortal Kombat in 1995 and 0 out of 20 have even a 75% score on RT.
Now maybe it's just a conspiraceeeeeee from evil studio execs to make bad movies, or maybe, just maybe it's hard to write great movies from paper thin video game plots.
In all honesty how many Hollywood blockbusters per decade are even "great". Like maybe 15? Maybe? Out of like 100-150? I don't think Hollywood honestly has made anything better than the Matrix (1999) and Lord of the Rings Trilogy (not the crappy Hobbit trilogy) and that's been like 23 years ago (in the blockbuster space)? It's not because people working there are dumb or don't want to make something as good as those films, it's because it's fucking hard to do it.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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??? I didn't say it was a conspiracy, I said that the execs at Nintendo don't know how to make a good movie. I'm saying that people have made great movies from properties that people don't think would make great movies.
AtomicZach
Koopa
I am incredibly sorry. That was most rude of me to call you a gamer. Please accept my humble apologies.
Oof, fuck whoever would do that.
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This is 10 years ago by and written by a different person. Like it is easy to hate outlets and all that but by the end it is just the opinion by a single person.
Retro's Next Big Game Is Another Damn Donkey Kong Country
Donkey Kong Island is overrun by Vikings in Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze, which will be a retail release and a Wii U eShop download when it arrives later this year.kotaku.com
I will forever publicly shame these outlets for throwing a temper tantrum over this wonderful game.
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I’m not convinced making Mario a character with a compelling arc was an impossible task. You just had to lean into his very minimal character traits instead going the tired and lazy route many adaptations take; making him become the character he already is in the source material over the course of the movie. Sonic did this too, it’s a common approach for retroactive origin stories in existing properties; the MCU took three solo movies and multiple crossovers to get to the recognizable Spider-Man some wanted all along; and it is totally possible to do better.
From my perspective Mario should always be optimistic, enthusiastic and excitable; naturally curious and accepting, seeing the best in everything and everyone. From there, it should be easy to extrapolate some correlative flaws: a bit of overconfidence; acting impulsive when pushed to act; jumping into any situation believing he can resolve it; getting in over his head where a more measured approach is appropriate. He should be a direct contrast to the reserved Luigi (his characterization is far more established, and the movie appears to follow it); who keeps him balanced, reels him in when necessary. All of this is where the personal conflict should come from; especially if you keep the broad strokes of the story and separate him from Luigi, his tether. These are all common tropes, a different selection of tropes from his characterization in the actual movie but a character I still feel is more authentic to Mario (and a more interesting person).
None of these concepts are even fresh or new. You can see hints of this personality across different Mario media; main inspirations for me being being the Mario & Luigi series, the Super Mario Adventures comic, Ian Flynn’s denied Archie Super Mario comic pitch, even the brief moment of gameplay with Mario at the end of Luigi’s Mansion 3 and a bit from other western media like the cartoons.
He doesn’t need to start as an average guy who eventually becomes THE Super Mario (which they kept expressing is the idea in that production details document); he should already be Mario.
From my perspective Mario should always be optimistic, enthusiastic and excitable; naturally curious and accepting, seeing the best in everything and everyone. From there, it should be easy to extrapolate some correlative flaws: a bit of overconfidence; acting impulsive when pushed to act; jumping into any situation believing he can resolve it; getting in over his head where a more measured approach is appropriate. He should be a direct contrast to the reserved Luigi (his characterization is far more established, and the movie appears to follow it); who keeps him balanced, reels him in when necessary. All of this is where the personal conflict should come from; especially if you keep the broad strokes of the story and separate him from Luigi, his tether. These are all common tropes, a different selection of tropes from his characterization in the actual movie but a character I still feel is more authentic to Mario (and a more interesting person).
None of these concepts are even fresh or new. You can see hints of this personality across different Mario media; main inspirations for me being being the Mario & Luigi series, the Super Mario Adventures comic, Ian Flynn’s denied Archie Super Mario comic pitch, even the brief moment of gameplay with Mario at the end of Luigi’s Mansion 3 and a bit from other western media like the cartoons.
He doesn’t need to start as an average guy who eventually becomes THE Super Mario (which they kept expressing is the idea in that production details document); he should already be Mario.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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JorgenRaft
Chain Chomp
Pixar made a movie about dolls and actions figures who were great characters 4 times. I don't think it's a lot to ask, or even impossible, to do the same with one of the most iconic and established IP out there.
Lets put that into context. Games based on Video Games:
Angry Birds 2 Movie - 74% Fresh
Sonic 2 - 69%
Pokemon Detective Pikachu - 68%
Sonic 1 - 64%
Super Mario Bros. The Movie - 55% maybe going up/down
Mortal Kombat (2021) - 54%
Tomb Raider (2018) - 53%
Rampage - 51%
Mortal Kombat (1995) - 45%
Final Fantasy: Spirits Within - 44%
Monster Hunter - 44%
Angry Birds 1 - 43%
Uncharted - 41%
Prince of Persia - 37%
Resident Evil: Final Chapter - 37%
Resident Evil (2002) - 35%
Dead Or Alive - 33%
Silent Hill - 31%
Resident Evil: Welcome to Racoon City - 30%
Warcraft - 29%
Super Mario Bros. (1993) - 29%
Resi Evil Retribution - 28%
Tomb Raider Cradle of Life - 24%
Resident Evil: Extinction - 24%
Need For Speed - 22%
Resi Evil Afterlife - 21%
Ratchet & Clank - 21%
Pokemon 3 - The Movie - 21%
Tomb Raider (2001) - 20%
Assassin's Creed - 19%
Resi Evil Apocalypse - 19%
Pokemon Movie (2000) - 19%
DOOM - 18%
Pokemon Heroes - 17%
Hitman - 16%
Max Payne - 15%
Street Fighter (1994) - 11%
Wing Commander - 10%
Hitman: Agent 47 - 8%
Silent Hill: Revelation - 8%
Bloodrayne - 4%
Mortal Kombat Annihilation - 4%
House of the Dead - 3%
Street Fighter: Legend of Chun-Li - 3%
Alone In The Dark - 1%
The fact is for video game properties there's only 8 out of like 45 movies that are even over 50% lol. Mario is in the top tier. You can probably do the same thing for toy line movies ... LEGO Movie will be up near the top, but after a few LEGO movies most of the movies are sub-60%.
Quite honestly too, the two Sonic movies are likely buoyed by 5-8% by Jim Carrey. He can carry scenes by himself still and I think movie critics also have a soft spot for him now that he's in the twilight of his career. Remove him and both Sonic movies would review worse for sure.
JorgenRaft
Chain Chomp
If anything that list shows that these studios still haven't fully nailed how to adapt these franchises into a well regarded (from an overall critic perspective) movie.
Being "top tier" at 55% is certainly a way to look at it. And if Sonic is being buoyed 5-8% by Jim Carrey, then I'm not sure I want to know how much Jack Black is buoying Mario. Kind of a silly argument.
Seems like it's faithful to the game at least but to a point where it isn't as good of a movie as it can be.
Being "top tier" at 55% is certainly a way to look at it. And if Sonic is being buoyed 5-8% by Jim Carrey, then I'm not sure I want to know how much Jack Black is buoying Mario. Kind of a silly argument.
Seems like it's faithful to the game at least but to a point where it isn't as good of a movie as it can be.
robertman2
Chain Chomp
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I think series might just be a better format for video game adaptations if TLOU, Castlevania and Arcane are any indication
I mean I saw that movie opening weekend and had a blast.
But that is the RT score for it, critics shredded it.
Dusa
Bob-omb
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I don't know what this is meant to prove. Even using Detective Pikachu shows that the methods employed with Mario were less effective to producing a quality film. Detective Pikachu is the highest-rated Nintendo-related film by a decent margin, and it's also an attempt to make a unique and interesting story - because people didn't need to have an introductory flick. The very concept of Detective Pikachu was doing something with Pokemon that Pokemon hadn't done before.
Multiverse
Moblin
Well, Mario will outgross DP in like a week and a half.
“The very concept of Detective Pikachu was doing something with Pokemon that Pokemon hadn't done before.” This is true and also the reason why it didn’t do as well as it could box office wise. Still below Warcraft. It must have alienated a lot of fans because of its “different” story. It wasn’t a faithful adaptation of the Pokémon story or the detective Pikachu story from the game.
Mario seems like a more faithful adaptation. The licensed music may seem like an odd choice but Odyssey has two pop songs. The series was heading that direction anyway.
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Dusa
Bob-omb
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I mean, bringing up Warcraft is a bit weird considering the fact that more than 50% of the box office returns came from China, where revenue is considerably lower. DP had revenue lower by 6 million, but profit from DP was considerably large than WC. Mario movie might outgross it, but people also thought DP was going to break $1 billion. I do not have faith in gamers to be able to predict box office results.
Multiverse
Moblin
We have pre sales. Mario will outgross Detective Pickachu TOTAL domestic run opening weeknd.
DP dom: $144,105,346
Mario dom opening weekend: 150,000,000 +
DP wasn’t commercially successful enough for them to do a sequel. It wasn’t an outright bomb but not a block buster success you’d think considering the budget.
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Mr Doggo
Anti oof
Not that it would have made a large difference as nobody played that game
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