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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread

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Lozjam said:
The reason why companies do early reviews is for exposure, it’s not out of the goodness of their hearts. Basically to get people to play a game. But honestly, with the original Breath of the Wild, it was so heavily talked about, and dominated gaming discussion for 6 years, they don’t need reviewers to advertise for them. If TotK is even half the game that BotW, it probably is better to not do reviews for that natural sense of discovery. Thats probably way better marketing than the old way.

The majority of people are probably completely sold on TotK, it’s already one of the best selling games 2023 with preorders alone.

I think giving everyone equal footing is actually a far better marketing strategy too. One of the strengths of BotW was the community behind it, and the constant forms of discovery. Press really didn’t get to be a part of that, but it definitely enhances the experience.
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And here I thought the purpose of a review was to tell people what they thought of different aspects of a game! More fool me.

Surely people who want to maintain a natural sense of discovery could do as I do, and simply not read reviews? While others, who perhaps want to know what makes this entry distinct from BotW could go on reading them?
 
Lozjam said:
The reason why companies do early reviews is for exposure, it’s not out of the goodness of their hearts. Basically to get people to play a game. But honestly, with the original Breath of the Wild, it was so heavily talked about, and dominated gaming discussion for 6 years, they don’t need reviewers to advertise for them. If TotK is even half the game that BotW, it probably is better to not do reviews for that natural sense of discovery. Thats probably way better marketing than the old way.

The majority of people are probably completely sold on TotK, it’s already one of the best selling games 2023 with preorders alone.

I think giving everyone equal footing is actually a far better marketing strategy too. One of the strengths of BotW was the community behind it, and the constant forms of discovery. Press really didn’t get to be a part of that, but it definitely enhances the experience.
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Just because TOTK is the kind of game that doesn't really NEED reviews for a lot of people, maybe moreso than most games, doesn't mean that's the case for everyone, and you can't rely on that being the case.

There's no way in hell they simply don't do reviews for the biggest game of the entire year. That'd be complete and utter insanity.
 
If the game is great, there’s no downside to having reviews. If Nintendo is worried they’ll spoil the experience for players, they can just heavily restrict exactly what is covered ahead of launch (and they usually do).

Great reviews are a heavy dose of positive word of mouth - no different than what you’d hope for post launch from early adopters. The only people buying the game on faith alone are Nintendo / Zelda fans. For everybody else, a majority of those 30 million, Nintendo needs to create that positive buzz.
 
Reviews will boost ToTK sales.
This image alone made BoTW to sold millions of copys.

1vcushsnx0jy.png
 
Clov said:
And here I thought the purpose of a review was to tell people what they thought of different aspects of a game! More fool me.

Surely people who want to maintain a natural sense of discovery could do as I do, and simply not read reviews? While others, who perhaps want to know what makes this entry distinct from BotW could go on reading them?
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SammyJ9 said:
Just because TOTK is the kind of game that doesn't really NEED reviews for a lot of people, maybe moreso than most games, doesn't mean that's the case for everyone, and you can't rely on that being the case.

There's no way in hell they simply don't do reviews for the biggest game of the entire year. That'd be complete and utter insanity.
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Here is the thing though, Nintendo gets to have their cake and eat it too. And we saw this with Metroid Prime Remastered:

It will go something like this:
1. Game releases, and all of the game fans buy it day 1, because why the hell not.
2. Positive word of mouth, day 1 videos of experiencing the game. This then positively affects reviewers as well
3. Reviews Trickle In, instead of on a single day, reviews regular came in every day for a week.
4. The game becomes the best reviewed game of the year.
5. Then, the public starts buying it in droves, and the game becomes sold out.

I am not saying that there won't be reviews. Because I guarantee that there will be reviews no matter what. But maybe early reviews might not be the best play for Zelda. Obviously, time will tell.
SMALLVILLE BOY said:
Reviews will boost ToTK sales.
This image alone made BoTW to sold millions of copys.

1vcushsnx0jy.png
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And they can still do the same thing, that BotW accolades trailer didn't even release a few weeks after launch. Same as this little gem:
 
Reviews will obviously happen before release.

Question is more how stingy Nintendo will be with which outlets will get review copies and how much they are allowed to say about the game in said reviews.
 
Lozjam said:
you know, I actually kind of hope Nintendo doesn’t send any review copies before launch. Lets the game speak for itself. I think that it really affected Metroid Prime Remastered reviews positively. You cannot possibly concern troll over ”Nintendos aging hardware” when people get their hands on the game and are loving it. I think that it positively affected Metroid Prime Remastered sales.

Zelda is a game that really don’t need reviews too.
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I don't think it's fair to compare TOTK situation with MPR shadow drop. MPR is an old game remastered and a much smaller game in comparison with TOTK, for those who've already played MP before, MPR can be finished in a day or two, so they can come up with their reviews pretty quickly. TOTK is a much larger open world game with at least 100h+ worth of new content in it, reviewers need at least 2 weeks to finish it without sacrificing their normal life too much.

And I think pre-release review may positively affects reviewers since it gives them a sense of privilege for playing the game earlier than anyone else. (only if the game is actually good tho)
 
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Mekanos said:
Regardless, I just think it’s weird to be like “well it’s Zelda, of course it’ll be great” when we had games like Skyward Sword which was such a misfire they completely rethought the way they make Zelda games (and I say this as someone who likes the game).
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Fun fact: When Skyward Sword came out I wasn't really following online discussion that much. My friends and I all loved it, so when I eventually realised there was some kind of backlash about it it was surreal experience.
Like "wait did we play the game?", I was completely belwildered. Little did I know it would only be the first episode in a long series of me being completely disconnected from video game enthusiasts.
 
I'm also of the opinion that TotK shouldn't have reviews but it's because I'm a hater and don't want other people to play it before I do.
 
Lozjam said:
Here is the thing though, Nintendo gets to have their cake and eat it too. And we saw this with Metroid Prime Remastered:

It will go something like this:
1. Game releases, and all of the game fans buy it day 1, because why the hell not.
2. Positive word of mouth, day 1 videos of experiencing the game. This then positively affects reviewers as well
3. Reviews Trickle In, instead of on a single day, reviews regular came in every day for a week.
4. The game becomes the best reviewed game of the year.
5. Then, the public starts buying it in droves, and the game becomes sold out.

I am not saying that there won't be reviews. Because I guarantee that there will be reviews no matter what. But maybe early reviews might not be the best play for Zelda. Obviously, time will tell.

And they can still do the same thing, that BotW accolades trailer didn't even release a few weeks after launch. Same as this little gem:
Click to expand...

That only worked with Metroid Prime Remastered because A) It’s a known quantity as a game, being a remaster, and B) Nobody knew it existed until it shadowdropped, which is important (rumors don’t matter). There are general expectations and a flow of things for new game releases that a shadowdrop circumvents.

If Nintendo didn’t send out early copies of TOTK, it would have a ton of negative side effects for a lot of reasons:

- Nintendo does not want any bad press. If they didn’t send out early copies, there would be a metric fuckton of articles, tweets, and YouTube videos all along the lines of “Nintendo not sending out early copies??? What are they hiding? Is the game actually bad? They have no confidence in it? etc. Doesn’t matter if that’s not true, it’s still bad press.

- It completely screws over games media. Reviews and guides are the single biggest traffic-drawers on all games media sites and platforms, so if everyone got the game at the same time on day one, especially for a game of this magnitude, then guides writers and reviewers would all be forced to basically crunch like crazy to get out that kind of content that generates that traffic as quickly as humanly possible. And they would HATE that (and rightfully so), which would lead to a lot of bad feelings and, yet again, bad press with tons of articles and videos about the situation, why they don’t have that content ready, etc., and it all makes Nintendo look like the bad guy.

- All of this combined, plus a lot of other stuff, puts a ton of focus exactly where Nintendo doesn’t want it: On real world situations and problems and failing expectations and external issues and drama and so on, and not on where they do want it: The game itself.

If the game is great, reviews drop that week and everyone just says “yep, it’s an amazing game and should be played by everyone.” Simple, easy. No drama. Otherwise, it causes a complete fiasco that would backfire badly.
 
Mekanos said:
Regardless, I just think it’s weird to be like “well it’s Zelda, of course it’ll be great” when we had games like Skyward Sword which was such a misfire they completely rethought the way they make Zelda games (and I say this as someone who likes the game).
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Yeah it seems a bit obnoxious to be honest. Of course if someone has faith in the Zelda team, that's fine. But not wanting reviews out of blind faith is just weird. The too big to fail shtick is annoying even if it's true.
 
yes it is true
-old hardware 20-30 fps
-reusing the map
-graphics ps3 In a year with many next gen
-trailer that looks like a dlc
-bad marketing
I don't trust guys I want a review.Of course if someone has faith in the Zelda team, that's fine.
 
Eh I really wouldn't call Zelda a damsel in distress in Botw, far from it actually.

She is the true hero of the game and all the memories are about her journey moreso than Link's.
 
fork said:
yes it is true
-old hardware 20-30 fps
-reusing the map
-graphics ps3 In a year with many next gen
-trailer that looks like a dlc
-bad marketing
I don't trust guys I want a review.Of course if someone has faith in the Zelda team, that's fine.
Click to expand...
Keep the faith! Or just look at the leaks lol
 
Lelouch0612 said:
Eh I really wouldn't call Zelda a damsel in distress in Botw, far from it actually.

She is the true hero of the game and all the memories are about her journey moreso than Link's.
Click to expand...

The man, the playable character, Link, adventures across Hyrule fighting monsters, meeting many interesting people, and exploring the landscape. The woman, Zelda, who is distinctly not playable, stays in one place to hold back Ganon, until her hero arrives to save Hyrule! I guess she uses some light magic in the final battle?

I wouldn't say she's the true hero of the game at all, and I don't think her role here is significantly different than many other Zelda games. Sure, there are some memories that flesh out her character. It doesn't change the fact that Link is the one who has to save her in the end, that she is confined to one place for the vast majority of the game. She's a damsel! I certainly don't feel seen or respected by having the game's most prominent woman, the namesake of the entire series, have a role like this.
 
Clov said:
and I don't think her role here is significantly different than many other Zelda games.
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This seems unfair. Holding the big bad captive and being held captive by the big bad is very much different, in fact it's the complete opposite.

I do agree that it's a shame her position made it impossible for her to get screentime during the present. This is the one point I want to be changed in the sequel.
 
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Maronic03 said:
This seems unfair. Holding the big bad captive and being held captive by the big bad is very much different, in fact it's the complete opposite.

I do agree that it's a shame her position made it impossible for her to get sreentime during the present. This is the one point I want to be changed in the sequel.
Click to expand...

The effect is the same. She remains in one place, not having the power to vanquish Ganon, while waiting for the one who DOES have that power to end her plight.

I want it changed in the sequel too, believe me! But I'm not confident that's what's going to happen.
 
Clov said:
The man, the playable character, Link, adventures across Hyrule fighting monsters, meeting many interesting people, and exploring the landscape. The woman, Zelda, who is distinctly not playable, stays in one place to hold back Ganon, until her hero arrives to save Hyrule! I guess she uses some light magic in the final battle?

I wouldn't say she's the true hero of the game at all, and I don't think her role here is significantly different than many other Zelda games. Sure, there are some memories that flesh out her character. It doesn't change the fact that Link is the one who has to save her in the end, that she is confined to one place for the vast majority of the game. She's a damsel! I certainly don't feel seen or respected by having the game's most prominent woman, the namesake of the entire series, have a role like this.
Click to expand...
Lelouch0612 said:
Eh I really wouldn't call Zelda a damsel in distress in Botw, far from it actually.

She is the true hero of the game and all the memories are about her journey moreso than Link's.
Click to expand...
There's no nice way to put it, a lot of Nintendo's game are actively retrograde when it comes to portrayal of women and other similar marginalized groups (Clov already touched on the transphobia in BOTW, but it's compounded by the blatant orientalism with the Gerudo and the general issue of how the whole "sexy harem girl" trope has roots in colonialist and racist views of Arab culture).

But this is a series where the blonde, fair skinned noble royal elves fight off the evil brown desert man who has an entire army of woman servants, so it would be nice if people admit the Zelda series is actually kinda reactionary instead of saying "actually no it's actually progressive after all!" It's just annoying that we always have to tiptoe around this topic so I'm gonna be the one to come out and say it.
 
Zelda as playable character in the mainline games seems to be a bit of a lost cause under the current leadership. They have some very antiquated views on her role in the series and I don't see that changing until Aonuma is gone at the very least. I really wish we could have gotten Skyward Sword with the story from Zelda's perspective but alas...
 
I think reviews are pointless for any Nintendo game really. We should just pay $60 a month for 10 months and $70 for 2 months (for the real big games) in a year as a subscription to buy every game. No need for directs, no marketing, no promotions, nothing.
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
Zelda as playable character in the mainline games seems to be a bit of a lost cause under the current leadership. They have some very antiquated views on her role in the series and I don't see that changing until Aonuma is gone at the very least. I really wish we could have gotten Skyward Sword with the story from Zelda's perspective but alas...
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Honestly they should just bite the bullet and give Link customizable gender options. I'm tired of pretending he's not a glorified avatar character and he's actually super unique and has to be male always. It would be extremely easy to be able to design Link's face, hair, body, etc. to suit the player's needs.

But they won't, Nintendo is convinced Link has to be characterized in the safest, most cishetero male way possible.
 
Mekanos said:
Honestly they should just bite the bullet and give Link customizable gender options. I'm tired of pretending he's not a glorified avatar character and he's actually super unique and has to be male always. It would be extremely easy to be able to design Link's face, hair, body, etc. to suit the player's needs.

But they won't, Nintendo is convinced Link has to be characterized in the safest, most cishetero male way possible.
Click to expand...

They should! Lady Link is just what the series needs! Of course there's many, many other improvements needed, but this would be a great start.
 
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Mekanos said:
I can’t say I’ve LOVED every game in any series, especially one with well over a dozen core entries. And definitely not one with games like Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass.

Regardless, I just think it’s weird to be like “well it’s Zelda, of course it’ll be great” when we had games like Skyward Sword which was such a misfire they completely rethought the way they make Zelda games (and I say this as someone who likes the game).

Honestly I think the 3D Mario team is the most reliable team at Nintendo, but that’s neither here or there. I just find a lot of discussion weird about this game how it’s basically “it’s the sequel to the Best Game Ever” and that’s all we need to get hyped. And I thought BOTW was great but there’s a lot that can go wrong in a game, even when it’s a world class dev like EPD (and a lot of issues that a sequel needs to address since it isn’t the first time around anymore).
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All of this is judged relatively though.

Like yes, for the series standards SS was polarizing for sure and in the context of the series, it proved time for a reinvention

But it was still one of the best reviewed games of its year. I know people like to scream Zelda bias but honestly I can’t believe it was ALL a case of that. SS in many areas, especially its later dungeons, demonstrated game design that much of the industry still can’t match.
 
Phendrift said:
All of this is judged relatively though.

Like yes, for the series standards SS was polarizing for sure and in the context of the series, it proved time for a reinvention

But it was still one of the best reviewed games of its year. I know people like to scream Zelda bias but honestly I can’t believe it was ALL a case of that. SS in many areas, especially its later dungeons, demonstrated game design that much of the industry still can’t match.
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If you think I'm harsh on SS you're gonna really hate my WW take

Review scores are basically worthless to me, Bioshock Infinite has a 94 on Metacritic which is essentially a game about how anti-racism is as bad as racism
 
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fork said:
yes it is true
-old hardware 20-30 fps
-reusing the map
-graphics ps3 In a year with many next gen
-trailer that looks like a dlc
-bad marketing
I don't trust guys I want a review.Of course if someone has faith in the Zelda team, that's fine.
Click to expand...
Can't tell if trolling or not... I hate it
 
Mekanos said:
There's no nice way to put it, a lot of Nintendo's game are actively retrograde when it comes to portrayal of women and other similar marginalized groups (Clov already touched on the transphobia in BOTW, but it's compounded by the blatant orientalism with the Gerudo and the general issue of how the whole "sexy harem girl" trope has roots in colonialist and racist views of Arab culture).

But this is a series where the blonde, fair skinned noble royal elves fight off the evil brown desert man who has an entire army of woman servants, so it would be nice if people admit the Zelda series is actually kinda reactionary instead of saying "actually no it's actually progressive after all!" It's just annoying that we always have to tiptoe around this topic so I'm gonna be the one to come out and say it.
Click to expand...
Are the Gerudo themselves in BotW offensive? I agree with what you described, but mainly in the case of OoT. I found the Gerudo in BotW to be pretty great unless I’m missing something. BotW did a pretty good job of separating them from Ganondorf besides Urbosa’s reference to OoT’s version of events. They’re a benevolent tribe with a variety of skin tones and body types.

Everything else regarding Zelda, I agree though. It’s very odd in a sense that, with SS and BotW and WW, Zelda seems primed to have a very active role in the story. She’s got amazing potential with characterization from a fearsome pirate leader to a bold and independent researcher going against what’s expected of her. Like Nintendo sets up such interesting things with her character but is afraid to take it all the way and execute it well. It’s just a bizarre pattern at this point.
 
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Phendrift said:
All of this is judged relatively though.

Like yes, for the series standards SS was polarizing for sure and in the context of the series, it proved time for a reinvention

But it was still one of the best reviewed games of its year. I know people like to scream Zelda bias but honestly I can’t believe it was ALL a case of that. SS in many areas, especially its later dungeons, demonstrated game design that much of the industry still can’t match.
Click to expand...
Plenty of big games reviewed well but later opinion turned on them a bit. Bioshock Infinite and Dragon Age 3 for a start, the latter winning tons of GOTY awards too. Skyward Sword isn’t alone in getting unanimous critical acclaim and hype at the time then opinion cooling, in that sense Zelda isn’t alone any more than ‘Zelda bias’ is a thing. The latter I always think is more rooted in console wars because it’s Nintendo’s big flagship action-adventure game, on top of it being one of the most consistently highly rated games over 35+ years. That’s really hard to pull off.

(For what it’s worth, I agree with you that SS dungeon design was great, even if I can think of plenty of major parts of the game I didn’t like).

I don’t really think even Zelda is worth thinking ‘of course it’ll be great!’. I love BOTW but it’s not like there aren’t aspects that have proven divisive (weapons breaking leading to carrying dozens of them) or worth criticising (Nintendo’s usual damseling etc), generating discussion as we see above and thus making reviews that highlight them also worth reading.

Whether ToTK is stunning or not (and I’m not saying the latter is likely), it’ll still be one of the most talked about games of the year, just through comparisons to BOTW even if nothing else.
 
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Phendrift said:
Are the Gerudo themselves in BotW offensive? I agree with what you described, but mainly in the case of OoT. I found the Gerudo in BotW to be pretty great unless I’m missing something. BotW did a pretty good job of separating them from Ganondorf beyond Urbosa’s reference to OoT’s version of events. They’re a benevolent tribe with a variety of skin tones and body types.
Click to expand...
The whole concept of a woman-only race has its roots in orientalist views of harem women in Arab countries. The Gerudo are still cartoonish stereotypes of Arab women, where Nintendo also goes out of their way to remind you that they are all 100% heterosexual, with classes about how to attract men and NPCs displaying anxieties about not being able to attract men. Because Hylia forbid they display queer romance in a same sex society.

And this, which I touched on earlier:

 
Mekanos said:
The whole concept of a woman-only race has its roots in orientalist views of harem women in Arab countries. The Gerudo are still cartoonish stereotypes of Arab women, where Nintendo also goes out of their way to remind you that they are all 100% heterosexual, with classes about how to attract men and NPCs displaying anxieties about not being able to attract men. Because Hylia forbid they display queer romance in a same sex society.

And this, which I touched on earlier:

Click to expand...

Ah i hadnt thought about it from the angle I bolder, that makes sense! I had also forgotten about the classes on how to attract men lol, just a really outdated attempt of a joke that shouldn’t have made it in.

Also the transphobia of the quest to obtain that outfit is gross, yeah. Have thought that since the game’s release.

I do still think strides were made with their depiction from OoT where they centered around “the evil tribe from the desert that was responsible for Ganondorf.” I enjoyed many moments with them in BotW and hope to see them improved even more despite problematic origins.

Unfortunately with regards for LGBTQ representation I don’t expect much at all from Nintendo, as a gay man who has repeatedly been disappointed with Fire Emblem romance options - and that’s their best “attempt” yet at it. Don’t really wanna get my hopes up for that sadly. But it would’ve been cool to see some through the Gerudo for sure.
 
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Member permanently banned for misuse of the pronoun field through blatant mockery. - Aurc, PixelKnight, xghost777
Yavga said:
Can't tell if trolling or not... I hate it
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not , if it was 2017 or 2021, I would hate myself for saying this. But this year I really think so. I'm sorry
 
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Mekanos said:
Honestly they should just bite the bullet and give Link customizable gender options. I'm tired of pretending he's not a glorified avatar character and he's actually super unique and has to be male always. It would be extremely easy to be able to design Link's face, hair, body, etc. to suit the player's needs.

But they won't, Nintendo is convinced Link has to be characterized in the safest, most cishetero male way possible.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with this but I also think character customization is ultimately a band-aid solution for Nintendo's issues in representation and inclusivity. As Clov says, it'd be an important first step but with Nintendo it often feels like it's also the last one. Customized characters make sense for multiplayer games or stuff like Animal Crossing and Pokémon but I'd much rather have Nintendo be more mindful and respectful of other gender identities in ways that don't involve leaving everything up to the player but committing to a vision.

We have like 100 different Links that are male, it's fine to also have some that explicitly aren't. They could make Link non-binary by default, or introduce incarnations of Link that don't fall into the typical blue-eyed Euro-adjacent male mold, make games starring Zelda or, selfishly, Impa etc. In the wider context of Nintendo games I'm also a little bit tired of there being basically three choices of main characters: Cismale, Samus or a custom blank-slate.
 
Clov said:
The man, the playable character, Link, adventures across Hyrule fighting monsters, meeting many interesting people, and exploring the landscape. The woman, Zelda, who is distinctly not playable, stays in one place to hold back Ganon, until her hero arrives to save Hyrule! I guess she uses some light magic in the final battle?

I wouldn't say she's the true hero of the game at all, and I don't think her role here is significantly different than many other Zelda games. Sure, there are some memories that flesh out her character. It doesn't change the fact that Link is the one who has to save her in the end, that she is confined to one place for the vast majority of the game. She's a damsel! I certainly don't feel seen or respected by having the game's most prominent woman, the namesake of the entire series, have a role like this.
Click to expand...

Mekanos said:
There's no nice way to put it, a lot of Nintendo's game are actively retrograde when it comes to portrayal of women and other similar marginalized groups (Clov already touched on the transphobia in BOTW, but it's compounded by the blatant orientalism with the Gerudo and the general issue of how the whole "sexy harem girl" trope has roots in colonialist and racist views of Arab culture).

But this is a series where the blonde, fair skinned noble royal elves fight off the evil brown desert man who has an entire army of woman servants, so it would be nice if people admit the Zelda series is actually kinda reactionary instead of saying "actually no it's actually progressive after all!" It's just annoying that we always have to tiptoe around this topic so I'm gonna be the one to come out and say it.
Click to expand...
Listen, that's actually my read of the game. While there are multiple examples of "damsel in distress" in the past and in Nintendo's portfolio, we can also admit that the story of Zelda in BotW is central.

More broadly, it is the failures of the male figures (Her father and Link) which ultimately led to the defeat 100 years ago. The King eventually realized he should have let her follow her own path. At the end, she managed to save both Link and the realm, so if it is not heroic, I don't know what is.

Is there any character more and better fleshed out in the game ? With a more decisive contribution ?

Overall, you want her to be controllable and that's my wish too. I think it would be a great continuation to her character arc and well overdue. But that doesn't mean she would be more heroic, that's two different things.
 
Lelouch0612 said:
Listen, that's actually my read of the game. While there are multiple examples of "damsel in distress" in the past and in Nintendo's portfolio, we can also admit that the story of Zelda in BotW is central.

More broadly, it is the failures of the male figures (Her father and Link) which ultimately led to the defeat 100 years ago. The King eventually realized he should have let her follow her own path. At the end, she managed to save both Link and the realm, so if it is not heroic, I don't know what is.

Is there any character more and better fleshed out in the game ? With a more decisive contribution ?

Overall, you want her to be controllable and that's my wish too. I think it would be a great continuation to her character arc and well overdue. But that doesn't mean she would be more heroic, that's two different things.
Click to expand...

As a woman, I feel that sitting around, holding back the evil Ganon because of the failures of men past, waiting for the man with the power to vanquish him for good is not especially heroic compared to exploring and actively slaying monsters. I would love it if Zelda, or at the minimum, a Lady Link, could go around and do that. Why settle for crumbs when I should be having a meal?
 
Dardan Sandiego said:
I don't disagree with this but I also think character customization is ultimately a band-aid solution for Nintendo's issues in representation and inclusivity. As Clov says, it'd be an important first step but with Nintendo it often feels like it's also the last one. Customized characters make sense for multiplayer games or stuff like Animal Crossing and Pokémon but I'd much rather have Nintendo be more mindful and respectful of other gender identities in ways that don't involve leaving everything up to the player but committing to a vision.

We have like 100 different Links that are male, it's fine to also have some that explicitly aren't. They could make Link non-binary by default, or introduce incarnations of Link that don't fall into the typical blue-eyed Euro-adjacent male mold, make games starring Zelda or, selfishly, Impa etc. In the wider context of Nintendo games I'm also a little bit tired of there being basically three choices of main characters: Cismale, Samus or a custom blank-slate.
Click to expand...
I agree it's a band-aid, and there should definitely be explicitly female Links, non-white Links, etc. But again, Nintendo is far too rigid and conservative (both in the political sense and in the sense of how it treats its IPs) to even humor the idea. I just think it's silly they treat Link as this singular character who must always be Recognizably Link, while also claiming him to be a blank slate for the player to project onto. I don't think you can have it both ways.

Even compared to other major Japanese studios Nintendo is incredibly retrograde on these topics. Say what you want about Forspoken - and there's plenty you can say - but you can't say Nintendo ever greenlit an AAA game with a black woman as the lead. Whether it's technological or social, Nintendo is always dragged into the future kicking and screaming, and unfortunately their current success only incentivizes them to stay their safe, risk-averse course.
 
Clov said:
As a woman, I feel that sitting around, holding back the evil Ganon because of the failures of men past, waiting for the man with the power to vanquish him for good is not especially heroic compared to exploring and actively slaying monsters. I would love it if Zelda, or at the minimum, a Lady Link, could go around and do that. Why settle for crumbs when I should be having a meal?
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As I said, you want Zelda to be controllable. Hopefully it is the case this time around, because it is well overdue. I would be very disappointed if that's not the case, especially how this Zelda is central to the whole game themes.
 
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Link hasn't really been a blank slate in a while; they don't want him to be as such, which is one of the reasons they also took away the ability to rename the character.

The localisation kind of messed this one up a bit for BOTW, where in the Japanese version, Link writes an entire diary in first person about various things, that got significantly rewritten to be from a generic perspective in the English version.
 
Clov said:
Sadly only for Hyrule Warriors! Would love to see her back though.
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Yeah that’s a shame. I guess Nintendo has a habit of digging deep into the back catalogue to surprise people so I’m sure we’ll see her again one day.
 
Fucking sucks that Serif left, he probably was the greatest contributor to Zelda discussion on Fami.

The real tears were the ones we shed along the way....
 
One reviewer out there will say: "Tears of the Kingdom makes Breath of the Wild feel like a tech demo." Just watch.
 
Phendrift said:
Like yes, for the series standards SS was polarizing for sure and in the context of the series, it proved time for a reinvention

But it was still one of the best reviewed games of its year. I know people like to scream Zelda bias but honestly I can’t believe it was ALL a case of that
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I mean I don't know, I think Zelda bias is a pretty valid point. Opinions are opinions but I don't think most game critiques would say Skyward Sword or Twilight Princess deserve to be rated as some of the best games of all time anymore. They also got some of the biggest score changes between remaster and original, especially Skyward Sword.

If anything i think the point is too memed because of the Celda comment, because there is a valid point to be made. I like the series a lot but they can't all be best game ever.
 
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Linkstrikesback said:
The localisation kind of messed this one up a bit for BOTW, where in the Japanese version, Link writes an entire diary in first person about various things, that got significantly rewritten to be from a generic perspective in the English version.
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They'll probably do it again in TOTK too unfortunately.
 
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LukasManak22 said:
I would like to thank @Serif for the amazing contributions to this whole thread, altough he requested self ban and will not be coming after game releases so he will not be able to read this.
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Wow, a self-requested ban even? That's such a shame, he was the oldpuck of the Zelda threads. Hope he's doing well.
 
Skyward Sword was a bit of let down but was still fun to play if motion controls were OK for you. Bosses in Skyward Sword were weak though, 2 Ghirahim temple encounters and the TinkerCAD octopus boss sucked.



Nintendo didn't really know what they were doing with Skyward Sword until a few years into development, with TotK it sounds like they came out swinging right after BotW. This won' t be another Skyward Sword.
 
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