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StarTopic Star Wars |ST| SW fans cannot help what they are. Their passion leaves a trail. The enthusiasm for Star Wars is like an itch. They cannot help it.

Clov

Welcome to the True Bean's World
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This was not meant to be posted yet and might not even be complete for some time still. I'll try to finish it asap.




You most certainly can. His performance was absolutely a highlight there, filled with a gravitas. He would like to see the baby, whereas we would like to see The Client.

It retails for around $25.00 USD but might sometimes be found cheaper if you are willing to make your soul a sunless space.

I don't know what you're typing up, but I do hope that it's not another attempt at using detailed "facts and logic" to "prove" to Phos or I that we are wrong to feel the way we feel about a corporation.

More on topic, it's a great performance! Herzog's Client is just instantly memorable. It's the voice that does it. He just has such a distinct speaking voice, the same one that makes even his lesser documentaries a pleasure to watch. As for the figure, $25 is certainly a lot cheaper than I expected. I don't own any Star Wars figures anymore, but the sheer novelty of having a miniature Werner Herzog that I could pose next to say, Robocop or Crystal Bowie makes this one really tempting to track down.
 

Supreme Overlord

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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If I may,

My intent was not to cause offense, nor is that my intent now, but rather to inquire about and allow for elucidation upon certain assertions-- particularly that a piece of media (in this case Andor) would necessarily be improved by removing it from its context and preexisting universe, hence the closing questions being framed around that point -- and to dismiss the unsubstantiated "Star wars sux" as sufficient reasoning.

At the beginning and end of the post, though, it states the original post's conclusion (clearly demarcated in the aforementioned post with "in conclusion") has no real support. The inflammatory reference to a "hot take" specifically calls to this conclusion and mirrors it to draw attention to the fact that the hot take in question is "in conclusion: Star wars sux."

(We can reasonably assume this is, indeed, a hot take because it is degrees removed from any support, needlessly tacked on to the end of the comment, and is dismissive of the entire thread. And yet still wouldn't have elicited a reply if not for the questions about a piece of media being made better or worse simply by virtue of its relation to a preestablished universe. Feel free to correct me if this is incorrect.)

Now, obviously this did not come across as intended, and the wording of this closing was received especially poorly, and for that I am sorry.

But the message of the post was never "Yay, media singularity! Heat death of all culture!" nor was it ever "you're wrong to feel a particular way about a corporation." It was more "these details don't contribute to whether the show is better outside its universe, and these concepts suggest removing it might not be as simple as suggested, so how will removing it necessarily improve the show itself? Also, did you just dismiss an entire thread you sought out?"

If you feel the need to eviscerate me with that in mind, please, do commence.




I do hope that it's not another attempt at using detailed "facts and logic" to "prove" to Phos or I that we are wrong to feel the way we feel about a corporation.
someone trying to own me with facts and logic.
The flagrant misread or misrepresentation of the post's purpose aside, there's no "owning" here, no "look at me destroy this," just a response to some assertions and an invitation to discuss, if one so chooses.

All that said, this "owning with facts and logic" language generally pops up in some certain contexts. Please tell me this wasn't specifically chosen as loaded language to carry with it some particular connotations and suggestions.

In any case, that invitation remains open:
What about removing a story from an established universe would always lead to its betterment?

How does the idea of this media singularity necessarily mean an individual project must be bad, entirely divorced from any details about the piece of media itself?
(This was about Andor -- or, I suspect, anything Star Wars -- and is thus still very much on topic.)

I'm still rather curious about why the show would be better if ripped out of its established universe, assuming, of course, the answer is more considered than "Star wars sux."

SO drops frickin MLA formatted dissertations three times a day
I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I fear you might be overselling my capabilities a tad. Regardless, this seems an opportune time to review the Overlord's modus operandi.
 
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Phosphorescent Skeleton

It feels like I'm in a fairytale
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If I may,

My intent was not to cause offense, nor is that my intent now, but rather to inquire about and allow for elucidation upon certain assertions-- particularly that a piece of media (in this case Andor) would necessarily be improved by removing it from its context and preexisting universe, hence the closing questions being framed around that point -- and to dismiss the unsubstantiated "Star wars sux" as sufficient reasoning.

At the beginning and end of the post, though, it states the original post's conclusion (clearly demarcated in the aforementioned post with "in conclusion") has no real support. The inflammatory reference to a "hot take" specifically calls to this conclusion and mirrors it to draw attention to the fact that the hot take in question is "in conclusion: Star wars sux."

(We can reasonably assume this is, indeed, a hot take because it is degrees removed from any support, needlessly tacked on to the end of the comment, and is dismissive of the entire thread. And yet still wouldn't have elicited a reply if not for the questions about a piece of media being made better or worse simply by virtue of its relation to a preestablished universe. Feel free to correct me if this is incorrect.)

Now, obviously this did not come across as intended, and the wording of this closing was received especially poorly, and for that I am sorry.

But the message of the post was never "Yay, media singularity! Heat death of all culture!" nor was it ever "you're wrong to feel a particular way about a corporation." It was more "these details don't contribute to whether the show is better outside its universe, and these concepts suggest removing it might not be as simple as suggested, so how will removing it necessarily improve the show itself? Also, did you just dismiss an entire thread you sought out?"

If you feel the need to eviscerate me with that in mind, please, do commence.






The flagrant misread or misrepresentation of the post's purpose aside, there's no "owning" here, no "look at me destroy this," just a response to some assertions and an invitation to discuss, if one so chooses.

All that said, this "owning with facts and logic" language generally pops up in some certain contexts. Please tell me this wasn't specifically chosen as loaded language to carry with it some particular connotations and suggestions.

In any case, that invitation remains open:

(This was about Andor -- or, I suspect, anything Star Wars -- and is thus still very much on topic.)

I'm still rather curious about why the show would be better if ripped out of its established universe, assuming, of course, the answer is more considered than "Star wars sux."

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I fear you might be overselling my capabilities a tad. Regardless, this seems an opportune time to review the Overlord's modus operandi.
I already said I wouldn't post here anymore, you have to calm down with this stuff.
 
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Clov

Welcome to the True Bean's World
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If I may,

My intent was not to cause offense, nor is that my intent now, but rather to inquire about and allow for elucidation upon certain assertions-- particularly that a piece of media (in this case Andor) would necessarily be improved by removing it from its context and preexisting universe, hence the closing questions being framed around that point -- and to dismiss the unsubstantiated "Star wars sux" as sufficient reasoning.

At the beginning and end of the post, though, it states the original post's conclusion (clearly demarcated in the aforementioned post with "in conclusion") has no real support. The inflammatory reference to a "hot take" specifically calls to this conclusion and mirrors it to draw attention to the fact that the hot take in question is "in conclusion: Star wars sux."

(We can reasonably assume this is, indeed, a hot take because it is degrees removed from any support, needlessly tacked on to the end of the comment, and is dismissive of the entire thread. And yet still wouldn't have elicited a reply if not for the questions about a piece of media being made better or worse simply by virtue of its relation to a preestablished universe. Feel free to correct me if this is incorrect.)

Now, obviously this did not come across as intended, and the wording of this closing was received especially poorly, and for that I am sorry.

But the message of the post was never "Yay, media singularity! Heat death of all culture!" nor was it ever "you're wrong to feel a particular way about a corporation." It was more "these details don't contribute to whether the show is better outside its universe, and these concepts suggest removing it might not be as simple as suggested, so how will removing it necessarily improve the show itself? Also, did you just dismiss an entire thread you sought out?"

If you feel the need to eviscerate me with that in mind, please, do commence.






The flagrant misread or misrepresentation of the post's purpose aside, there's no "owning" here, no "look at me destroy this," just a response to some assertions and an invitation to discuss, if one so chooses.

All that said, this "owning with facts and logic" language generally pops up in some certain contexts. Please tell me this wasn't specifically chosen as loaded language to carry with it some particular connotations and suggestions.

In any case, that invitation remains open:

(This was about Andor -- or, I suspect, anything Star Wars -- and is thus still very much on topic.)

I'm still rather curious about why the show would be better if ripped out of its established universe, assuming, of course, the answer is more considered than "Star wars sux."

I appreciate the vote of confidence, but I fear you might be overselling my capabilities a tad. Regardless, this seems an opportune time to review the Overlord's modus operandi.

Phos isn't going to post here anymore, but perhaps I can respond to at least some of this. If your intent wasn't to cause offense, why respond to an older, fairly short post with this sort of long-winded diatribe? It's condescending, and the way you ended that post (regarding "giving marks") reeks of arrogance. To your credit, you do seem to regret that part, but it definitely tinted your entire post, which came across to me as a sort of hostile "I will destroy this dissenting opinion for not being backed by logic" sort of deal, long after the issue seemed "settled" by moving on. You don't like us bringing up the "destroyed with facts and logic" archetype, but that genuinely is how you are coming across to both of us (and others I know who happened to see it). Both Phos and I have dealt with these types before; we are familiar with their behavior. If that's truly not what you're trying to do, then I apologize.

You also talk about us "misrepresenting" or "misreading" your posts. There's a simple solution at hand, which also would clear up the issues I mentioned previously. Write concisely. Not all posts warrant an essay length response. If you want to make your point understood, make it simply. There's nothing wrong with longer posts in themselves, don't get me wrong. A long post can certainly warrant a long response, or a long post can be used to start a complex discussion (which you claim to have attempted here?), and sometimes, a short post might have something so truly vile that it needs a lengthy reprimand. But I don't think Phos' post needed that sort of response. I think a short and easy to understand response is perfectly fine for a short and easy to understand post... at least, if you want to ensure that you're being understood.

There's certainly some irony in me advocating you to write more to the point while typing up all of this, but you'll have to forgive me just this once. I hope now you understand our perspective of things and can move past this. Phos wants no part of this anymore, so if you still want to continue this discussion direct it towards me only. Otherwise, maybe we can all move on and talk more about Werner Herzog.
 

Supreme Overlord

Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!
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(Adding this up top where it won't require being searched for)
I wasn't going to bring the topic back up, but I jumped back to check something out of curiosity and there really is quite a bit more between the post and reply than I'd thought. More important, though,
is that, yeah, I can see how things would have gotten muddled; it didn't flow nearly as clearly or connect as strongly as it seemed to before being typed. I still question
how the strong insistence on the particular reading carried so much (particularly after someone clearly took away a different meaning almost immediately), using that as reason to insert rather nasty implications, and unilaterally determining that (these as clear fact) everything is resolved
], but I do see how my writeup contributed to the initial response, and as such I do apologize for my part in that.

@Clov, it is, it's the voice and cadence that instantly draws attention to Herzog's client. I suspect how little we end up knowing about him likely plays a role in the character's allure, the mystery. In a galaxy where everyone gets receives a name, even if only relayed through merchandising, he remains The Client. Perhaps he fancies himself a Man with no Name sort of person.




Andor looks like it's really good so maybe I'll give it a watch? I didn't like Rogue One as much as everyone did so Andor-the-character really says nothing to me. Is it that good?
I don't know if you've decided on this yet, but I'd suggest it is just legitimately good -- and it's not uncommon to find people who didn't care for -- or even so absolutely detested -- Rogue One who have come to that same conclusion, so finding that underwhelming isn't automatically a detriment to enjoyment and appreciation of this show.

Overall, it's a very deliberately paced series, a bit low for much of its run on what some people generally look for in action but more than making up for that with a deft hand on dialogue and tension.

There's absolutely a reason the first three episodes were released in one chunk.

Really, though, the writing, acting, cinematography, set design, sound design, costume design, it's really well put together.

If it looks good to you, yeah, check it out. That's no guarantee you'll end up liking it, of course, but let us know either way.




My opinions on Luke aside, my main qualms with Johnson will always be focused on what he did with Finn. Or rather, what he and the writers didn't do. I keep thinking back to what Boyega said at the BLM rally in London and in following interviews, years back.

Sure, I'm glad that Disney and SW apparently got "the message" when it came to Boyega's remarks in wake of his (and his fellow minority actors') soured experience with the recent Star Wars films. And I would certainly hope that if Johnson's supposed trilogy ever materializes, he'll do better, next time.
While I appreciate what Johnson was trying to accomplish within that part of the plot, this always was one of the weaker elements of the movie.

I did wish there'd been more done there when the movie released -- and some of the cut content would have at least edged things further in that direction -- but it was easier to accept because The Last Jedi made it really clear where his character would go. Unfortunately, that never materialized after all.

Basically, while I think it would have been better to take that arc farther in The Last Jedi, even if it wouldn't have solidified the endgoal, I did find it more egregious when The Rise of Skywalker tossed aside the clear setup for the character.

Boyega was absolutely underused in that trilogy as a whole. There was a lot of potential for the character, too.




Andor continues to solidify Andy Serkis as one of my favorite actors. Goddamn.
To think, this could refer to multiple actors in the series. The casting was on point, and the acting is so good.

But, yes, The Serkis is incredible and so versatile. From traditional acting and voice acting to narration, and so forth, I wish I had even a modicum of that talent.
 

Clov

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I think what I like about Herzog's Client is that he's just a sort of faceless representation of a larger evil. He does come across more as mysterious than outright villainous, but it really works for the role he's playing. He doesn't have much individuality, it's Herzog's performance that makes the character what he is. Without him I don't think anyone would remember who The Client is in the first place.

Though mainly I like him because it's literally just Werner Herzog in Star Wars!
 
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TreIII

Triceraton
Founder
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Boyega was absolutely underused in that trilogy as a whole. There was a lot of potential for the character, too.
Absolutely.

Like Boyega's entire beef was that he was trotted as a signal for representation, and also being the main hero of TFA, with the way he was holding the lightsaber. And then just made a cruel joke, which I didn't find funny at all.

I'll continue to hope he, Rose and others get their due, someday.
 

Ozeiyo

Bob-omb
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I don't know if you've decided on this yet, but I'd suggest it is just legitimately good -- and it's not uncommon to find people who didn't care for -- or even so absolutely detested -- Rogue One who have come to that same conclusion, so finding that underwhelming isn't automatically a detriment to enjoyment and appreciation of this show.

Overall, it's a very deliberately paced series, a bit low for much of its run on what some people generally look for in action but more than making up for that with a deft hand on dialogue and tension.

There's absolutely a reason the first three episodes were released in one chunk.

Really, though, the writing, acting, cinematography, set design, sound design, costume design, it's really well put together.

If it looks good to you, yeah, check it out. That's no guarantee you'll end up liking it, of course, but let us know either way.

I haven't gotten around to it yet (too much work, too many pokémon to catch) but I am starting to get really hyped about it. Hopefully I can get too it soon-ish.
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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The space battles in this series are more satisfying than those of some whole damn movies.

And they only further cement my desire for Rogue Squadron to come out like right damn now please
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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I don't expect the next Star Wars movie to come out before 2025 tbh.
8p5rI6e.gif
 


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