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StarTopic Nintendo Switch Online + Expansion Pack |ST| New 2024 Poll Up

How will Nintendo handle the NSO with the launch of the Switch 2

  • Everything on the service becomes playable on launch day of the new system.

    Votes: 152 77.2%

  • A slow roll out with a promise to move everything over within 12 months from launch day

    Votes: 25 12.7%

  • LOL Nintendo is going to start all over with just NES games in late 2025

    Votes: 18 9.1%

  • Nothing will transfer over because the Switch 2 won't be backwards compatible with the Switch 1

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Total voters
    197
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Eventually Nintendo are going to have to increasingly sell NSO on the basis of what's already there rather than on the promise of further regular additions to the retro selection. Presumably the drip-feed is there to delay that as long as possible. Doing deep-cut stuff like a Virtual Boy app, or adding N64 DD games to the N64 app and Mega CD games to the Mega Drive app, would be good high profile things to do in the medium term. The total library is approaching the 250 game mark (if you subscribe to the EP), so the cumulative offering is obviously improving all the time (even if around a third of titles are for the NES).

As we've seen, it's not unreasonable to expect the GB/C offering to eventually be similar to the NES offering in size (somewhere around 80 or more games), though the Expansion Pack systems are going to top out somewhat lower. GB/C really could afford to have more updates than 2 games once every quarter. It's difficult to see the N64 going beyond 35 even with additional third party licenses, while GBA is difficult to guage. GBA got over 70 titles on Wii U VC, but a chunk of those were from Capcom and Konami and some of those are available through eShop collections on Switch; without much third-party support, it's difficult to know how GBA'll work out. I'd guess we're looking at 40 to 50 games at a minimum; easily more if Nintendo can sort out some licensing issues and get Capcom, Konami, Natsume, Sega and Square Enix to provide some support (the latter just for FF Tactics Advance, pls). It'd obviously improve the service as a whole if Nintendo can work with these companies, even if the releases are sporadic rather than comprehensive.

DS is an interesting one for the future. On Wii U VC, Nintendo released 31 games, and they were all first-party titles. The most promising thing for DS is that a large number of titles didn't make the Wii U VC (for obvious reasons) and are probably feasible for NSO, especially on new hardware - whether it's obscure titles (Polarium, Last Window) or mega-hits (Nintendogs!), plenty of DS titles never made it to VC and would have a real shot at coming to a subscription in the future. It's also another obvious system where a little more support from Japanese publishers would make a tangible difference.
 
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The DS is a messy thing for them to add to NSO with all of it's different capabilities and control schemes. I think it will be hard to predict when and how they add it, at least while we don't know the exact feature set of the Switch 2.

I imagine it will be Expansion Pass by default, considering the potential work each game/the emulator may need, but it's awkward because we don't have an obvious addition to the base subscription to go alongside it. They could always move systems down from the Expansion Pass to the base pass, but if anything they may revamp and reshuffle the subscription model instead for the Switch 2 launch (read: charge more money).
 
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Spikeylord said:
Keep in mind that Project EGG is also coming to Switch - and given Nintendo's history with D4E (provided the Neo Geo and MSX emulators for VC, has a title on NSO - that was only added after the EP launched) - I think there is a non-zero chance that it becomes part of the NSO service; so that might end up being how we get MSX back, as well as a bunch of other old Japanese computer models for the first time (NEC PC-98, Fujitsu FM-7, Sharp X1 etc).

As for what I think is likely for NSO in general:
  • We get PC Engine/TurboGrafx and/or Master System/Mark III in Autumn 2024 (if we get both, I'd say Master System base NSO and PCE/Turbografx for EP)
  • Then Nintendo DS gets added in 2025 as a Switch 2 exclusive NSO+EP service (based on the cope that the Switch 2 will have a built-in microphone) - and if they keep the double console drop thing then I could see Game Gear coming with it as a base NSO thing.
  • Project EGG as mentioned is a wild card, but it was added it'd be NSO+EP for sure (platforms on EGG that aren't on Switch - or mentioned elsewhere in this list- are as follows: PC-9801, PC-8801 [including mkIISR], PC-6001 [including mkII], PC-6601, MSX/MSX2/MSX2+, Sharp X1, X68000, FM-7, FM77AV)
  • Saturn is unlikely, and Dreamcast ain't happening ever - 32X and Sega CD could happen, but I'm not gonna hold my breath. And, for completeness sake, we are also not gonna get SG-1000 or Sega Pico/Advanced Pico Beena either lol
  • Commodore 64 likely won't happen cause of the same licensing issues that resulted in C64 VC being removed early on Wii VC
  • Virtual Boy is a wild card but I could see it happening
  • Gamecube (and also Wii, 3DS and Wii U) are port/remaster territory for sure now - given how many GCN titles we seem to be getting brought over now
  • Satellaview might pose major issues due to preservation and licensing
  • N64DD should really happen, as there's only a few titles on that to begin with and it would just be integrated into the N64 NSO app
  • and then any other platform is a complete wild card that probably isn't likely but are fun to speculate on (Game & Watch? Atari consoles? Wonderswan? 3DO?)
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  • I can expect PC Engine to come, but Master System, judging by Sega's (shitty) focus on Game Gear, I feel like it could be Game Gear instead.
  • Nintendo DS is a mess in terms of controls, though not impossible to solve to me, but I think it's only for Switch 2. NERD could implement macros of sorts for games that could use them, but it will definitely be limiting.
  • Project EGG is an odd one, I kinda hope there's some implementation for NSO.
  • Virtual Boy god I hope it would happen, there's not many games, they even have unreleased ones, but then they could just make a collection, it's really all single player only games.
  • Satellaview might be messy but also might not. There's still quite a bunch of games they could rerelease without any problems though (Special Tee Shot, Kirby's Toy Box). If the problem is the voice acting and all for BS Zelda and others, they could just replace it, and in all honesty, they would need to figure out how to localize it too.
  • N64DD is so Japan only that I don't know if Nintendo finds it worthwhile in general... unless they rerelease in Japanese worldwide perhaps. But F-Zero X Expansion Kit should seriously happen. They might even have an english disk master already, as localization of the track editor was definitely underway, proven by the gigaleak.
 
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MisterSpo said:
Eventually Nintendo are going to have to increasingly sell NSO on the basis of what's already there rather than on the promise of further regular additions to the retro selection. Presumably the drip-feed is there to delay that as long as possible. Doing deep-cut stuff like a Virtual Boy app, or adding N64 DD games to the N64 app and Mega CD games to the Mega Drive app, would be good high profile things to do in the medium term. The total library is approaching the 250 game mark (if you subscribe to the EP), so the cumulative offering is obviously improving all the time (even if around a third of titles are for the NES).
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The problem with Sega CD, or any CD based console, is that Nintendo would probably need to change the structure of how these apps work. It's one thing to ask people to download every nes/snes/gb/gbc/gba/md rom you upload to the service, one sega cd game is bigger then all of those other apps combined.
 
BassForever said:
The problem with Sega CD, or any CD based console, is that Nintendo would probably need to change the structure of how these apps work. It's one thing to ask people to download every nes/snes/gb/gbc/gba/md rom you upload to the service, one sega cd game is bigger then all of those other apps combined.
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That's true for the more modern disc based systems but not necessarily for Mega CD. Sonic CD is probably ten or even twenty times the size of Sonic 2, but it's still not as big as the overall Mega Drive app as it stands.

Plus, I wouldn't expect the CD selection to be anything exhaustive. The dozen games that made it on to Mega Drive Mini 2 would be indicative of what I'd expect.
 
Ok, so I think we are getting an Expansion Pack update tonight. Why?

Everytime I go to a premier showing on a Thursday night, there is an announcement while I am in the theater. While I am watching Nolan drop a nuke, Nintendo will drop their own bomb!

Count on it!
 
I got an update for the n64 app last night, it didn't add any gesture though, they must have been. Doing some under the hood work.
 
I do think they'll do Virtual Boy eventually. It has the rare factor and the few 3rd party games Nintendo could get for basically free. I don't think they would put it out on its own, probably paired with another system.

Virtual Boy for base tier
DS or PC Engine for expansion tier
 
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Lugia667 said:
it depends if they wanna aknowledge it exists, last time they did was with tomodachi life I think
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I've seen the Virtual Boy referenced in recent Animal Crossing games that the 3DS Badge Arcade. Nintendo doesn't try to completely ignore it, unlike the Phillips CD-I....
 
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Nintendo should do Pokemon Stadium 2 plus Mario Party 3 this month and another GB drop in early August. Speed up that drip feed.
 
Since D4E and Project EGG came up, it's also worth noting D4E handled the Wii U VC PCE emulator for Konami.

MisterSpo said:
That's true for the more modern disc based systems but not necessarily for Mega CD. Sonic CD is probably ten or even twenty times the size of Sonic 2, but it's still not as big as the overall Mega Drive app as it stands.

Plus, I wouldn't expect the CD selection to be anything exhaustive. The dozen games that made it on to Mega Drive Mini 2 would be indicative of what I'd expect.
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Additionally, 16-bit CD games are often easy to compress thanks to the big data files usually just being raw audio or video files while game data files are still pretty tiny. TGCD games like Ys Book I & II went from a 515MB CD-ROM image to a 38MB Wii VC download.
 
MisterSpo said:
Nintendo should do Pokemon Stadium 2 plus Mario Party 3 this month and another GB drop in early August. Speed up that drip feed.
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I honestly don't even mind the drip feed that much, but I do wish that Nintendo...

A. Had some kind of reliable schedule for these things - so you knew that X console would get updated every X number of months or X number of days on X day of the week, that sort of thing. The random guessing game isn't fun. Shit, just do it once a week or something! Every Thursday drop a game - even if some weeks are lame, it keeps people thinking about it. You could even do a NES, GB, SNES, and either GBA/N64 game each month - just one of each takes you through a whole month!

B. At the same time, it would be nice if we knew what was coming. Why did all of those GB/GBA games get announced months ago and then almost none of them have been released, but we've gotten random drops like Kirby's Dream Land 2? I'll bet people subscribed to play Oracle of Ages or Golden Sun or whatever and now we're almost six months in and we have no idea when those things are coming.
 
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They can still do an announcement tomorrow for the next week. I don't think we will have a month without any retro console update.
 
Luneth said:
They can still do an announcement tomorrow for the next week. I don't think we will have a month without any retro console update.
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Can't do an announcement tomorrow. The usual announcement time tomorrow would mean it's on a Saturday in Japan.

If there's no announcement tonight it's either next week for the week of the 31st/early July or they're skipping a month. I'd bet on the former.
 
Virtual Boy, Pokémon mini and DS/DSiWare seem like the only possible Nintendo platforms left. I'm not sure if any of them are likely tbh, I really think if we get more new platforms things like TG16 or GG are on the docket and they'll be behind the EP. Expansions like Sega CD or Super GB are possible too imo but would be folded into their existing core platforms.
 
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In terms of future platforms here’s where my thoughts lie:

Nintendo:
  • DS is an inevitability; the last platform where remasters are a far too complex ordeal to be viable for the vast majority of the library. On Wii U VC DS games were priced lower than N64 games too, so despite being newer they have been valued as lesser before; definitely in NSO’s value range. They can be the last first-party platform addition to the service, when they’ve totally run out of first-party N64 games to regularly add.
  • With Hagi on the table, they have a format to put out GC / Wii ports with light remaster work, and based on the credits of Pikmin 1+2 they will be utilizing it more. Maybe someday these will be added to the NSO sub as the “GameCube library”, but that’d be very far away; right now they want you to buy them all individually.
  • 3DS we need a few more examples to judge by, but I think remasters will be the focus there too. The end-goal is, of course, making as much of Nintendo’s past library available on a single platform as possible.
  • Accessories and expansions beyond the Disk System seem optional for Nintendo. I do hope we see all of them for existing platforms pop up; Zapper, Super Scope, Mouse, Satellaview, N64DD; but my hopes aren’t high, because beyond the Zapper games and Mario Paint we’re talking niche on top of niche.
  • Game & Watch, Virtual Boy and Pokémon Mini seem better served for individual compilations rather than an NSO app, given the size and nature of their libraries. In the latter case I think it’d be a fair suggestion to include the complete Pokémon Mini library in a remaster of Pokémon Channel; the original game featured emulated demos of some Mini games and an exclusive game; just add the rest.
Third-Party:
  • After Sonic Origins Plus i’d prefer them to stay away from Game Gear emulation, but unfortunately it’s probably more likely than Master System just due to having a slightly wider appeal overall.
  • M2 have expressed interest in both Saturn and Dreamcast emulation, but especially the latter. They stresses on the Mega Drive Mini 2 streams that Saturn was their first thought, but is currently infeasible on with the form factor and pricing model of the Mini systems. Wouldn’t be so infeasible on other hardware though…
  • Sega CD file sizes would be difficult to manage. Once again on the Mega Drive Mini 2 streams they mentioned how much they needed to expand the internal storage compared to Mini 1 just to fit the Sega CD games; around 7-8 GB if I recall.
  • PC Engine feels like the most likely third-party library right now. It had perfect Virtual Console attendance on all platforms (even if the 3DS library was Japan-only and tiny), all parties involved in both ownership and emulation are already tied to NSO; just feels like a very safe future addition.
  • Project EGG is difficult to imagine being part of NSO for me (it’d have to be Expansion Pack if so), but I can’t totally write it off either given the history of D4E bringing MSX to Virtual Console.
  • I don’t really think anything else is on the table.

Despite it being Pikmin day I have a decent feeling for an announcement in an hour; otherwise for N64 we may need an announcement on F-Zero X and Wave Race’s schedule (the same week as the release) next week to get something out this month. The current drip feed really is unbelievably terrible. Last month we get an update for everything but N64, and now we get nothing.
 
Josh5890 said:
Ok, so I think we are getting an Expansion Pack update tonight. Why?

Everytime I go to a premier showing on a Thursday night, there is an announcement while I am in the theater. While I am watching Nolan drop a nuke, Nintendo will drop their own bomb!

Count on it!
Click to expand...
I apologize for getting anyone's hopes up.
 
Ugh. I closed out of Fire Emblem without creating a new save state, then stupidly reopened my latest one. There’s about two hours gone. Probably not going back to that one.
 
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Unless we get something next week, this will be the first month since November of 2021 without an NSO update
 
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V_ac said:
Can't do an announcement tomorrow. The usual announcement time tomorrow would mean it's on a Saturday in Japan.

If there's no announcement tonight it's either next week for the week of the 31st/early July or they're skipping a month. I'd bet on the former.
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It’s also possible we get a base tier shadow drop next week and a Plus system announcement as well for the following week. Wouldn’t be the first time
 
Yeah if this drip feed keeps getting slower I'm gonna just go back to only getting the regular NSO plan (it expires in october) and I'll just pay the $25 for the mario kart DLC.
 
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Man the lack of consistent updates is just the worst part of NSO. My only thought is that maybe it's just because of the absolutely huge maintenance coming in the next few days that they want out of the way before updating something.
 
Apparent lack of an update this month sucks, especially because the rate of addition has at least been regular across the board this year even if it's a regular drip feed.

I'd definitely expected an N64 title.
 
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Orbit said:
What I meant is that almost six months after the launch of Gameboy games there's only been 4 games released. The NES app launched with 20 games and six months later they had added 15 games. The next app, the SNES, launched with 20 games, but only had 6 games six months after launch. The GB app launched with only 9 games, and has had only 4 games added nearly 6 months after launch.
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NES is the only one that existed in a vacuum. You point out that after NES launched, 15 games were added in six months. But in the since 5.5 months since Game Boy launched, 21 games have been added--just across a variety of systems
Brofield said:
It's when it comes up to the EP that it's being more than doubled in price but not in value is what draws the ire.
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In "Virtual Console cost", EP's games are currently worth 80% more than base's. Expansion has been sloping up much faster, too. If what's happened over the last two years were to continue, by next year EP would be 110% over base. Another year and it would be 136% over base.
 
If microsoft was willing to play ball with banjo, I have to imagine that getting diddy kong racing and dk64 should be a non issue. I dont think there are any non nintendo characters at all in dk64. Also, so many gba games that would be an easy win, kirby nightmare in dreamland, wario land 4 ect, wonder what the hold up is?
 
If we're talking Rare/Xbox I still want Blast Corps!

Actually, given how aggressive Sega has been with signing key 3rd party stuff, I wonder if they might get Rare's old MD games at some point (Battletoads, Championship Pro-Am, Snake Rattle n Roll)? Those versions have never been rereleased so it could be interesting.
 
If there is no update this month I genuinely cannot understand why. No, Mario Kart content doesn’t explain it, every other wave has had at least one NSO update the same month.
 
Beanstar40 said:
If microsoft was willing to play ball with banjo, I have to imagine that getting diddy kong racing and dk64 should be a non issue. I dont think there are any non nintendo characters at all in dk64. Also, so many gba games that would be an easy win, kirby nightmare in dreamland, wario land 4 ect, wonder what the hold up is?
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DK64 shouldn't be an MS/Rare issue. That game was on the Wii-U VC. DKR is a different story though with all of the Rare-owned characters involved. I still think we get it at some point.
 
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JoshuaJSlone said:
In "Virtual Console cost", EP's games are currently worth 80% more than base's. Expansion has been sloping up much faster, too. If what's happened over the last two years were to continue, by next year EP would be 110% over base. Another year and it would be 136% over base.
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Perhaps value isn't the right word, but nevertheless the size of the library is lackluster especially when they are taking as long as they are to fill it out. At least Virtual Console meant you could own the ROM of the game by legal means. If we can't own these games and they're only being streamed, I would have expected a more complete library to start at the price they're asking for.

I earnestly don't mind the subscription model and it seems to make a lot more sense to me, but it still has a great deal to improve before I would publicly or privately endorse the expansion pass.

Catalyst said:
If there is no update this month I genuinely cannot understand why. No, Mario Kart content doesn’t explain it, every other wave has had at least one NSO update the same month.
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The only time it made sense for them to skip releases last year was September (announce the new roadmap), December (two Mario Party games in November), and February 2023 with the release of GBA.

But seriously, the entirety of July with not a single update for any of the NSO platforms? Fishy as hell and this complete lack of communication continues to meet expectations of how seriously Nintendo is taking the whole initiative.
 
I just want Donkey Kong 64, Super Smash Bros, and Harvest Moon 64 on the service at this point. If Nintendo is going to put like zero effort in to getting third parties on board beyond asking Rare for Banjo and Goldeneye, then at least give me those 3 and let me not think about the service anymore lol.
 
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Brofield said:
Perhaps value isn't the right word, but nevertheless the size of the library is lackluster especially when they are taking as long as they are to fill it out. At least Virtual Console meant you could own the ROM of the game by legal means. If we can't own these games and they're only being streamed, I would have expected a more complete library to start at the price they're asking for.

I earnestly don't mind the subscription model and it seems to make a lot more sense to me, but it still has a great deal to improve before I would publicly or privately endorse the expansion pass.


The only time it made sense for them to skip releases last year was September (announce the new roadmap), December (two Mario Party games in November), and February 2023 with the release of GBA.

But seriously, the entirety of July with not a single update for any of the NSO platforms? Fishy as hell and this complete lack of communication continues to meet expectations of how seriously Nintendo is taking the whole initiative.
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Uh they aren’t streamed at all…you can stop use them offline
 
Lugia667 said:
Uh they aren’t streamed at all…you can stop use them offline
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Yes, I know. It's pedantic; the point I'm making is that once you unsubscribe, you lose access to this library. You don't own the titles through subscription.
 
MisterSpo said:
I will accept GB shadow-drop of Kid Icarus: Myths & Monsters plus Donkey Kong '94, or Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons, in order to make up for the lack of a release thus far in July.
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Eerie timing, I was about to post in this thread with the same comment lol; the last base update was June 5th and the Genesis update was June 27th, and we've heard absolutely nothing since.

I'd be content if Pokemon TCG was added to the GBC like they originally promised at first announcement for Gameboy NSO, but seriously at least they kept up updates with games after the initial roadmap was cleared through for N64. We still have four titles to come (and GoldenEye to Japan eventually), but being absolutely empty until the last week of the month...just shameful. I really would love to know who is in charge of the committee who decides what games get released or emulated after clearing the legalese nonsense, because it always seems like some poor bastard who pulls short straw with no cohesive plan.

Even just some honesty that they've hit a snag in getting an emulated game up to scratch for a release and there's a delay, I'd at least understand with some transparency. The only thing that would explain not having an NSO announcement of any kind this week is because they have something bigger to announce that would make up for it (or it really is empty because fuck the subscribers amirite?)
 
LuigiBlood said:
Well all that happened was just NSO smartphone app 2.6.0 today and that's it. Thanks Nintendo.
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Nothing to be datamined beyond stability updates, I take it?

I wonder why they still haven't bothered to bring the Western NSO app up to par with all the featured bells and whistles of the Japanese app
 
MisterSpo said:
I will accept GB shadow-drop of Kid Icarus: Myths & Monsters plus Donkey Kong '94, or Oracle of Ages & Oracle of Seasons, in order to make up for the lack of a release thus far in July.
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I will not accept it. Even though I want those games very badly. I need to heal and learn to forgive first
 
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I still maintain that PC-Engine/TG16 is my number 1 most wanted NSO addition. Sega CD is number #2 (Snatcher please!) but as @MondoMega said above: the filesizes are gonna be rough to deal with there. My “if 1 and 2, then 3” pick is PC-Engine CD. But again: CD filesizes.

I really think, once we start getting into bigger filesize games like those on Optical Media, they oughta figure out some kinda “choose which games you’d like to have installed“ interface.

So upon some research: Castlevania Rondo of Blood for TurboGrafx CD came out for Wii Virtual Console and, if my research is correct, was only 267 “blocks” or about 34 megabytes. How did they get a CD game to be that small? Could they do something similar for Sega CD games?
 
Brofield said:
Nothing to be datamined beyond stability updates, I take it?

I wonder why they still haven't bothered to bring the Western NSO app up to par with all the featured bells and whistles of the Japanese app
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Nope, just "bug fixes".

You sure you're not confusing with the japanese My Nintendo app which is the cooler app?
Derachi said:
I still maintain that PC-Engine/TG16 is my number 1 most wanted NSO addition. Sega CD is number #2 (Snatcher please!) but as @MondoMega said above: the filesizes are gonna be rough to deal with there. My “if 1 and 2, then 3” pick is PC-Engine CD. But again: CD filesizes.

I really think, once we start getting into bigger filesize games like those on Optical Media, they oughta figure out some kinda “choose which games you’d like to have installed“ interface.

So upon some research: Castlevania Rondo of Blood for TurboGrafx CD came out for Wii Virtual Console and, if my research is correct, was only 267 “blocks” or about 34 megabytes. How did they get a CD game to be that small? Could they do something similar for Sega CD games?
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Here's one of the biggest cheats of early CD game compression: Compress all of the redbook audio tracks. That's the part we can do really well, and then you can add possibly a way to have compression on the entire data track as well, it's probably highly compressible too.
 
LuigiBlood said:
Here's one of the biggest cheats of early CD game compression: Compress all of the redbook audio tracks. That's the part we can do really well, and then you can add possibly a way to have compression on the entire data track as well, it's probably highly compressible too.
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Ahhhh gotcha. I guess if it’s just the music they can get that down pretty small! Maybe it’d be a bit harder when you start getting into FMV and whatnot? Or is that easy too?
 
Considering the Sega cd was a Genesis peripheral, if they ever added those kinds of games they'd just add them to the Genesis app. I'm sure they could update the emulator to support it.
 
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Derachi said:
Ahhhh gotcha. I guess if it’s just the music they can get that down pretty small! Maybe it’d be a bit harder when you start getting into FMV and whatnot? Or is that easy too?
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Depends how the FMV works, but I don't see it as impossible to compress honestly. Just think of this: the expected biggest ROM on any NSO service would be 64 MB for N64. N64 and GBA games are compressed currently.
 
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