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StarTopic Metroid Prime Remastered |ST| Prime Prophecy Fulfilled

Sorry if this comment is too long, I couldn't figure out a way to shorten it. I want to say that your perspective is fine and completely valid. 3D Metroid in a lot of ways can inspire similar debates to 2D Zelda vs 3D Zelda. There's some people that just prefer one to the other. Personally as someone who got into Metroid with Prime, I definitely had some parts of the game knocked down a peg or two for me (the Chozo Ghosts, the color-coded Space Pirates, the weird Sunken Frigate trolling). I'm not really sure where I'd put it in respect to the rest of the franchise these days, but if I could provide some food for thought.

When Metroid Prime came out, the last game in the series was Super Metroid, a game that placed heavy emphasis on exploration and discovery. Super Metroid is definitely in part an "action game", but these elements are so diminished in part because of its admittedly alien controls, its bosses usually being gimmicks or platforming challenges, and a lot of the upgrades in the game straight up undermining the combat. This is the game that Metroid Prime is working off of, not the 20 plus years of 2D games that came after. The 2D games after Super heavily changed the flow of a Metroid game I think, and while none of them necessarily committed to Fusion's linearity in quite the same way, one thing that stayed pretty consistent is a constant supply of power ups, upgrades, and critical paths being overtly obvious. The DNA of Metroid was streamlined into being more of an action romp that features exploration, with a critical path that is usually clearly outlined.

The reason I'm saying this even though you didn't necessarily mention linearity vs exploration or fast paced gameplay vs slower paced gameplay is because in my eyes when you say that you shouldn't have tackled Prime as a 2023 game, I think you're right, but not because it hasn't aged well, but rather just because the franchise isn't the same nowadays. Prime is all about taking that slower pace of Super (at least, slower pace on a casual playthrough) and making that work in 3D. Prime in general is just about playing into the strengths of 3D honestly. It's a slow, ambient, methodical adventure game that uses the time between battles for contemplation and reflection. To me it's not too different from how something like Link riding a horse in Hyrule field is technically a waste of time compared to watching him fly across the screen with a sword, but the ambiance and feeling you get with it is completely different. It's not poorly aged, and I don't think it's really just a "basic" version of Metroid but in 3D either, it's just "different", because the franchise is different.

I will say though I find your take on the amount of areas and the density of them kind of interesting. I don't think I really agree on that front. The amount of areas seems pretty comparable to most Metroid games. Super has 6 areas but it includes its version of Sunken Frigate as one, which Prime doesn't, so it's actually the same amount. Zero Mission has 7 areas but its actually more like 5 because Lower Norfair is considered its own area called "Ridley", and Kraid has his own area. Samus Returns and Fusion for a few reasons are kind of nonsequiturs. Dread definitely has more areas but Dread's areas are pretty disjointed and there's a lot of overlap between area themes (there's like 2 labs except one of them is actually interesting because it's half underwater, there's 2 jungle areas, etc.). I also 100%d Dread for the first time after Prime and honestly, I don't think it's denser either. I was consistently surprised how few upgrades would be in any given tile, and this is keeping in mind the game has the most areas of any Metroid, and even has white tiles that will tell you if there's a hidden upgrade there.

That's just my two cents. I'm not explaining to you why you should enjoy the game more, 2D Metroid is so good that it's only natural to be disappointed when a 3D Metroid doesn't play to your tastes. I'm explaining why the game is the way it is I guess. Sorry if the reasons are already obvious though. I will say about Prime 2 and 3: Don't let the fact that people like them less cloud your judgment of how much progress Prime as a series did or did not make. The thing is that Prime suffers from serious Ocarina syndrome, the first game was so innovative and revolutionary that every game after it was seen as just a worse version, even if each game would play better to different tastes. For example I'm playing through Prime 2 right now and while it's definitely pretty similar to Prime 1, it also is a denser game because of the dark world mechanic, it has better bosses, the combat is better, etc. It makes total sense to me that some people would love Prime 2 or 3 and not 1.

Thank you for the detailed response! I really appreciate it!

Yeah, I definitely think what hurt me more was going into the game with the mentality that it has not aged at all (although I was lead to believe that by the reviews and wom) when it does have limitations or points that meed improvements that are inherent to the time it came out. I'm pretty good at approaching a game with the mindset of the time it came out and I'm always discovering retro games I love, but I didn't do that with this one, in my head it was like a new release. The core of the game is extremely solid and like you said, its incredible they came out with this as their first tackle into the franchise when all the framework they had was Metroid 1-3. In a fundamental level, the game really works, but imo for a completely newcomer 20 years later it gets more obvious that it needs some fine tuning to reach full potential.

For example, I agree when you say it's supposed to be slower paced and contemplative, and believe me, Super is still my favorite entry so I know what you're talking about. Despite loving Dread, I complained that it never gave the player time or enough room amplitude to stop and take in the atmosphere, the game's areas felt very narrow and funneled. Prime definitely isn't like that, its large rooms do remind me of Super and I loved exploring them for the first time and definitely think that was the right approach for the game. Key words here are "for the first time", because I think where the game differs from Super is that it keeps being slow even at the sixth or seventh time you're backtracking through a room you already explored, while in Super Samus gradually turns into a killing machine that steamrolls everything in front of her and makes backtracking not only a breeze but also part of that sense of "damn I'm get badass with all these upgrades". Prime isn't like that because you never get substantially stronger, you get more health and more missiles, but your weapons aren't incrementally stronger, they're just meant for different purposes. You also never get unlimited jumping like the Space Jump, and like I said, the map isn't very well interconnected like Super, so backtracking is always very slow, and there is a lot of it. The design is also a bit mean sometimes, without the hint system a lot of the next steps I was supposed to take felt really random, and that wouldn't be much of a problem if revisiting every area to check for new paths was faster, but like I said, it's really slow.

As for the area variety, I still think Prime is a bit lacking compared to other games, but it might be because I'm a bit tired of going through the same areas over and over again so they're the ones that are burned into my brain. Like, when I think of my experience as I whole, what I remember the most is transversing the same rooms in Magmoor and Tallon Overworld. Super had the same amount of major areas but in general you're traveling through different paths each time, and also each area was more varied. Like, Brinstar has the classic forest environments but it also has red soil brinstar, it has rooms with a fungi theme, Norfair has fire areas but also those rooms with weird alien bubbles etc. As I type this I realize it would be exponentially more expensive to make a 3D game that varied visually than it was for a 2D game, so I understand this limitation, but it's still a thing to me.

Anyway, I think your comparison with OoT made me more excited for Prime 2 and 3 now. I think as someone who doesn't have nostalgia for any of these games, I could potentially like 2 and 3 more than I liked 1 of they address some of these things. I'm also very excited for Prime 4 because, like you said, it's coming out after 20 years of improvements to the Metroid formula.
 
I haven't played Prime HD yet, but I generally felt the same about Prime on both GCN and Wii. I really, really tried to love it, it's obviously an incredibly well made game, but the slower movement and generally disorienting FPS perspective makes me enjoy it far less than the 2D games. I will probably try Prime HD at some point (maybe not for 40 dollars because I've already bought this game twice over), but I would personally love a third person 3D Metroid game that leaned into the sense of movement and freedom you have in the 2D titles. I enjoy just about every 2D Metroid game I've played, but I've never gotten into Prime in remotely the same way.

I think Super Metroid is as close to a perfect game as you get, but Prime doesn't really translate what makes it so brilliant to 3D, in my opinion.
Missed the page cutoff but I wanted to elaborate on this before going to bed:

Key words here are "for the first time", because I think where the game differs from Super is that it keeps being slow even at the sixth or seventh time you're backtracking through a room you already explored, while in Super Samus gradually turns into a killing machine that steamrolls everything in front of her and makes backtracking not only a breeze but also part of that sense of "damn I'm get badass with all these upgrades".
This is the brilliance of Super Metroid IMO and I don't think even most Metroidvanias really as successfully tap into that sense of you gradually becoming more powerful and skilled as the game goes on. By the end of the game Samus is like a superhero and the amount of mobility she has is just mindboggling compared to where you started. I really, really want a 3D Metroid that captures that vibe.
 
This is the brilliance of Super Metroid IMO and I don't think even most Metroidvanias really as successfully tap into that sense of you gradually becoming more powerful and skilled as the game goes on. By the end of the game Samus is like a superhero and the amount of mobility she has is just mindboggling compared to where you started. I really, really want a 3D Metroid that captures that vibe.

Absolutely, Super is still unmatched in that sense. In Dread you also become a freaking powerhouse, but Samus is still ultimately restricted by how narrow and labyrinthic the environments are, so her mobility still doesn't feel as free as it does in Super endgame.
 
Dread speedbooster is god tier though
Overall the streamlined movement in Dread makes it a much better casual play than Super and a much worse speedrun
 
3/3 will now forever be:

Switch launch
BotW launch
Metroid Prime launch for the physical game in europe™


Copy just arrived! wooho
 
As far as 2D Metroid vs 3D Metroid, they're VERY different, unlike most the 2D Zeldas which mostly adopted the Alttp/Ocarina formula and are pretty similar other than the perspective. Mario is similar to Metroid I think, where the 2D and 3D games differ quite a bit. So I can definitely understand people who gel with one more than the other, or not at all.
I agree, but I think people sometimes underestimate the multifaceted ways 2D Zelda or Metroid are enjoyable that don't translate to 3D. Like, sure, the Zelda formula is still pretty 1:1. Doesn't change that speed had to basically be entirely removed and the games had to get way more puzzle focused though
Anyway, I think your comparison with OoT made me more excited for Prime 2 and 3 now. I think as someone who doesn't have nostalgia for any of these games, I could potentially like 2 and 3 more than I liked 1 of they address some of these things. I'm also very excited for Prime 4 because, like you said, it's coming out after 20 years of improvements to the Metroid formula.
I read your comment and liked it. I agree that the lack of feeling significant growth as Samus is a problem as far as traversal goes. I think the key like progression works enough for me because it still feels more multifaceted then a Zelda game, but I get what you mean. I just don't know if you'll ever get the same kind of solution you have in the 2D games for Prime, because it's first person, stuff like the shinespark would be hard to pull off, even with a camera shift. I just think Prime is meant to capture the atmosphere and slow exploration of Super on a casual playthrough, even if it doesn't capture the interconnectivity or progression.

It's kind of funny because Dread was a game where I complained about elevators a lot when it first released, and the lack of interconnectivity bothered me. I didnt really have a problem with it in Prime because the pace is so different. I got used to it on my recent Dread playthrough because it's Fusion 2.0 and that still makes it one of the most fun 2D games of all time. Metroid is just so far ahead of any Metroidvanias that it can walk backwards and succeed ok, you can ban me for my Drone comment now
 
I just ordered the physical version!

I had this on Gamecube but my flatmate at the time, who had more time on his hands than me, ruined it by playing it first. So I never played it.

Fun fact - in 2004/5 I paid £25 for my Gamecube and about £5 for Prime on eBay, which is about the same as I'm paying for just the game now!
 
Slight criticism…

There have been 1-2 times where the hint system has told me where to go and I’ve thought ‘that is freaking random’. It would have took me a long arse time to have worked that out by myself and I’ve finished all the Metroid games in the past, although hadn’t played Prime for 20 years. I never felt that way when playing Dread and even with Super I always had a rough idea of where I needed to go.
 
Finally got to play it for myself!

The lore in this game is some of the best in gaming in my book. Like in the opening, where you get the clinical scan descriptions of the dead and wounded pirates listing their injuries/cause of death, including one which can't aim at you properly due to a brain hemorrhage. Adds so much to the ominous atmosphere.
Or the way the animals on Tallon IV all have an ecological profile, making the world feel that much more believable.

I even discovered something new already, that you can shut down the turrets during the escape from the Orpheon by scanning the nearby terminals, I missed that on my two previous playthroughs on Gamecube and Wii.

It's incredible how modern the game still feels considering it is over 20 years old; I struggle to think of many games from that era that hold up so gracefully. The sense of place is as impeccable as it was in 2002, I can almost smell the rain-soaked soil of the Overworld, or feel the dust-laden winds in the Chozo Ruins.

I'm only about an hour in, but so far I'm very impressed.
 
Currently trying to clean up the remaining items and scans, and it seems I'm missing exactly 3 missile expansions I have no idea about. I've gotten a few of the more commonly missed ones, so definitely going to have to devote more time to figuring out which ones I exactly missed before going to the end game finally.
 
I haven't played Prime HD yet, but I generally felt the same about Prime on both GCN and Wii. I really, really tried to love it, it's obviously an incredibly well made game, but the slower movement and generally disorienting FPS perspective makes me enjoy it far less than the 2D games. I will probably try Prime HD at some point (maybe not for 40 dollars because I've already bought this game twice over), but I would personally love a third person 3D Metroid game that leaned into the sense of movement and freedom you have in the 2D titles. I enjoy just about every 2D Metroid game I've played, but I've never gotten into Prime in remotely the same way.

I think Super Metroid is as close to a perfect game as you get, but Prime doesn't really translate what makes it so brilliant to 3D, in my opinion.
I think those are all easy things that Metroid Prime 4 can and hopefully will fix. Add in faster movement similar to Doom 2016/Doom Eternal, make a much larger map and world to compensate for the faster movement, and add in a Field of View slider to help with that disorienting perspective.
 
I think those are all easy things that Metroid Prime 4 can and hopefully will fix. Add in faster movement similar to Doom 2016/Doom Eternal, make a much larger map and world to compensate for the faster movement, and add in a Field of View slider to help with that disorienting perspective.
no, make no changes just make MPR again
 
Yeah I think that making a bigger FOV would probably help some people who can't get into first person games, the FOV in the Prime games is pretty claustrophobic, I don't mind it but I can see how it would be disorienting

This is a topic for a bigger discussion but I think after Prime 4 it would be nice to see them tackle a 3rd person Metroid
 
I haven't played Prime HD yet, but I generally felt the same about Prime on both GCN and Wii. I really, really tried to love it, it's obviously an incredibly well made game, but the slower movement and generally disorienting FPS perspective makes me enjoy it far less than the 2D games. I will probably try Prime HD at some point (maybe not for 40 dollars because I've already bought this game twice over), but I would personally love a third person 3D Metroid game that leaned into the sense of movement and freedom you have in the 2D titles. I enjoy just about every 2D Metroid game I've played, but I've never gotten into Prime in remotely the same way.

I think Super Metroid is as close to a perfect game as you get, but Prime doesn't really translate what makes it so brilliant to 3D, in my opinion.

You describe what we all thought Other M would be when it was first revealed.
 
The game has a bug in frost cave. If you are playing wii style, you won’t be able to destroy the stalactites with your missile. It’s the same bug with prime trilogy.
You have to deactivate free aiming
 
just going to say my peice a say prime 1-3 are masterpieces and outside of music and visuals super metroid is dog water compared to them
nah super is better than 3 for sure

The game has a bug in frost cave. If you are playing wii style, you won’t be able to destroy the stalactites with your missile. It’s the same bug with prime trilogy.
You have to deactivate free aiming
it's possible just a bit obtuse in the way you have to aim at them
 
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just going to say my peice a say prime 1-3 are masterpieces and outside of music and visuals super metroid is dog water compared to them
strongly agree. Super is nice to play but what comes afterwards is so much more interesting.

And even in music nestroid is probably more interesting.
 
I.... can't remember the trick for going straight into Charge Shot without firing three power shots first
 
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Last night, Phazon Mines went from being my least favourite areas to being one of my favourites.

Curious as to what changed for you? Personally I've always loved it, but I know it's not an unpopular opinion to dislike the mines and the Phendrana research lab, but they've always been some of the many highlights of the game for me.
 
I somehow beat him my first try. Fucked me up a bunch on NG+ tho

Holy crap, that's amazing. I've never spent so long on a boss before in my life, but I was determined and finally managed to pull through. I think Sekiro is my favorite From game honestly. There were so many moments that seemed insurmountable (Genichiro, Guardian Ape) even though I had beat all their previous games, but I always prevailed.

From's games are the only games to match Metroid in terms of atmosphere and worldbuilding for me personally. This reminds me I should really go back and finish Elden Ring. I got stuck on Melenia and had to return it to the library before I could will my way through it. It's probably on sale by now so I might just pick it up.
 
Phazon Mines is cool and atmospheric af. It shocks me that it is “hated”

Love how creepy and organic it gets the deeper you go, really captures the feeling of diving into an alien planet
 
Phazon Mines is cool and atmospheric af. It shocks me that it is “hated”

Love how creepy and organic it gets the deeper you go, really captures the feeling of diving into an alien planet

Phazon mines is only hated because of the absurd gap between saves in it. The whole game is cool and atmospheric!
 
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Holy crap, that's amazing. I've never spent so long on a boss before in my life, but I was determined and finally managed to pull through. I think Sekiro is my favorite From game honestly. There were so many moments that seemed insurmountable (Genichiro, Guardian Ape) even though I had beat all their previous games, but I always prevailed.

From's games are the only games to match Metroid in terms of atmosphere and worldbuilding for me personally. This reminds me I should really go back and finish Elden Ring. I got stuck on Melenia and had to return it to the library before I could will my way through it. It's probably on sale by now so I might just pick it up.
Not to derail but this post makes me want a Metroid-game by From so badly lol 😂
 
good ol' PAL region reporting in with them boxes finally

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Phazon Mines is cool and atmospheric af. It shocks me that it is “hated”

Love how creepy and organic it gets the deeper you go, really captures the feeling of diving into an alien planet
I don't hate the Phazon Mines, but I do sorta feel indifferent about the location, I guess. I've never found it particularly challenging, but the color coded Space Pirates are still just kind of mundane to fight, especially the Ice Beam ones (considering you freeze them with a charge shot, then just keep shooting them in their immobilized faces until they're dead).

I do really like the Phazon / Metroid rooms leading up to the Omega Pirate, but considering it's the big, final proper level, I feel like the Metroids themselves should've posed far more of a threat, a sentiment brought forth by Jack Mathews (tech lead on Prime 1-3) as well. I just think it's kind of a shame that Metroids present a respectable challenge in the 2D games, but here, they're just jobbers (with the exception of the titular antagonist itself).

Side note: until this release, I had no idea the Phazon Mines theme incorporated the six note motif of the main Metroid theme. It just never previously registered.
Not to derail but this post makes me want a Metroid-game by From so badly lol 😂
That would be magnificent. I'm bummed it'll never happen. 🥲 You just know they'd do an incredible job with the lore, level design, boss fights, and so on.
 
Imagine if Nintendo/Retro officially made Metroid Prime its own timeline separate from the 2D games, and to really drive this home, they made their own Prime reimagining of the NES Metroid game that's canon to the Prime universe, called Metroid Prime 0.

This would probably be divisive if it happened (it will never happen, don't worry) but I'd be intrigued.
 
Imagine if Nintendo/Retro officially made Metroid Prime its own timeline separate from the 2D games, and to really drive this home, they made their own Prime reimagining of the NES Metroid game that's canon to the Prime universe, called Metroid Prime 0.

This would probably be divisive if it happened (it will never happen, don't worry) but I'd be intrigued.
A reimagining of Metroid 1 sounds awesome. If this were to ever happen, I'd want them to adapt it quite loosely and freely, considering it'd be a completely different timeline. Obviously there's the potential to finally fight Kraid in a Prime game, and they should of course maintain certain core elements (him, Ridley, Mother Brain), but Zebes can be reimagined as being quite different from Metroid 1 / Zero Mission's depiction. We could explore parts of the planet that aren't Brinstar, Norfair, and so on. Entirely new biomes instead.
 
Curious as to what changed for you? Personally I've always loved it, but I know it's not an unpopular opinion to dislike the mines and the Phendrana research lab, but they've always been some of the many highlights of the game for me.
What Aurc said is pretty much it:
This is like that FromSoftware meme of players cursing the boss fight, until they finally overcome it, and then it's brilliant. What an arc

But for anyone looking for a more detailed explanation that I do not necessarily come off well in:

Hidden content is only available for registered users. Sharing it outside of Famiboards is subject to moderation.


It was so good. The same empowering feeling of having conquered a game that you get from the best of FromSoft basically
 
A reimagining of Metroid 1 sounds awesome. If this were to ever happen, I'd want them to adapt it quite loosely and freely, considering it'd be a completely different timeline. Obviously there's the potential to finally fight Kraid in a Prime game, and they should of course maintain certain core elements (him, Ridley, Mother Brain), but Zebes can be reimagined as being quite different from Metroid 1 / Zero Mission's depiction. We could explore parts of the planet that aren't Brinstar, Norfair, and so on. Entirely new biomes instead.
I agree, but I would also love to see the Norfair bubble rooms in fully detailed 3D. It's something I've wanted to see in 3D since the first Prime came out.
 
Imagine if Nintendo/Retro officially made Metroid Prime its own timeline separate from the 2D games, and to really drive this home, they made their own Prime reimagining of the NES Metroid game that's canon to the Prime universe, called Metroid Prime 0.

This would probably be divisive if it happened (it will never happen, don't worry) but I'd be intrigued.
I want this so badly if only so that we could finally stop having the chronology/canon debate just because back when only Prime 1 existed they felt the need to slot it into the 2D timeline of events and poison community discussions forever.

(I am firmly in the camp that Prime is a completely standalone sub-series coming off of Metroid NES, not related to Metroid 2, Super, O:M, Fusion, Dread in any way and those all exist in their own continuity where none of the things from Prime happened which is also how the games are presented anyway but some people love their convoluted timelines a bit too much to see that :p)
 
Was digging this game almost the entire way through, but I'm not exactly jumping for joy to get the final 2 artifacts (both in the mine). I don't particularly like boss fights in general and I figure I'm gonna get two bosses in a row after getting all the artifacts so feel like stopping here =P .
 
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Imagine if Nintendo/Retro officially made Metroid Prime its own timeline separate from the 2D games, and to really drive this home, they made their own Prime reimagining of the NES Metroid game that's canon to the Prime universe, called Metroid Prime 0.

This would probably be divisive if it happened (it will never happen, don't worry) but I'd be intrigued.
Id much prefer it like that.
 
So I'm about to pick up the Thermal Visor, put the game into sleep mode right in front of it

The thing that strikes me the most about this release is that it didn't really age. The game was weird and different and sort of clunky compared to Halo back in 2002, and it remains exactly that today, just with better controls—but the flow of the game, walking through the world, figuring out what item pickups I can get with an area's powerup versus the ones I need to return to when fully kitted out, the mood, the music, just the vibes—none of that has aged a day. This is a very rare kind of game that remains almost exactly as good now as it was twenty years ago

I'm pleased it's stood the test of time so well

I'm also really enjoying the act of reacquainting myself with this game's version of the setting. Tallon IV and Zebes being in the same solar system, Ridley being like a big guard dog that the Space Pirates occasionally have to build and rebuild, the operations on Zebes being just one branch of their organization, the strangely competent (up through the research lab) way they handle Metroids and containment procedures for monsters and for Phazon.... it's just nice. There's a lot of good reading in here

And you can ignore the story! I never would, but you can. What a feeling

The way that the classic art galleries are tied to your logbook and the remaster art galleries are tied to your item completion really incentivizes finishing the game in a way the original release couldn't

What a great version this is
 
What Aurc said is pretty much it:


But for anyone looking for a more detailed explanation that I do not necessarily come off well in:

* Hidden text: cannot be quoted. *


It was so good. The same empowering feeling of having conquered a game that you get from the best of FromSoft basically

That's great! That's how I play it too, very slowly and carefully, and it never gives me any trouble even on hard.
 
Not to derail but this post makes me want a Metroid-game by From so badly lol 😂
Would rather not, not to say anything about there quality just nothing I've played from them would suggest they could or even want to make a metroid game
 
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