Reminds me of this rather old photo:
We’ll never see the leaps we used to see ever again. It’s only when you start skipping generations do you really see the differences now.
That Mario Galaxy (?) vs Mario Odessey coin comparison was eye opening. They actually used to spend more triangles to get detail games today can get from a texture or post processing effect.I think diminishing returns are real... Even though each generation I say things can't get much better and there is SOMETHING that ends up amazing me... It's a lot harder to impress me each time.
However this (really old) picture doesn't exactly represent the way the industry has actually gone (even at the time)... it's sort of misleading.
1. it's only talking about polygons, which a long time ago was a majorly important part of performance, and is basically not a problem anymore.
2. that last model should have the jacket fully modelled for example as well as the bow tie and the hair should be tons of planes, that stuff was happening even in the 360 era, take a look at Assassin's Creed for example.
Edward had a poly count of just under 40,000 for the whole character. And there's a lot more detail in it that the bust in the picture.
Not to mention the realization of new rendering technologies... The returns are diminishing... It's just that we got REALLY good at faking it, (lighting is a good example here) now that hardware has caught up and we can do it a real way (ray tracing) the change is huge technically ... but visually sometimes you have to strain to see the differences.
I think there's still plenty of things that can be improved, things like actual hair, actual fluid simulation, better cloth sim so your character actually is wearing clothes instead of the clothes being skinned to the rig. Better real time volumetrics for fog and clouds and weather stuff. Again we're pretty good at faking this stuff ... I'm excited to see how we tackle these aspects in the future.
Also I hope I didn't trounce your post, just adding to the conversation and pointing out some things I noticed that's all.
and now it's getting to the point where faking it is starting to get more costly, lol
Really, the biggest hurdle Nintendo will face for the Switch 2 will be pricing, since Xbox and PlayStation has been having difficulty of pricing and their history of price cuts has comes to an end, since the PS5 didn’t get a price cut when the PS5 slim released.
Hiding some of the cost in hardware only happened in the WIIU era, however that time had the high priced 3DS as a profitable supplement. It should be noted that Sony and Microsoft are able to sell consoles in bundles or outright at a loss because they are integrated companies, Sony did it in the ps3 era to promote their multimedia strategy, Microsoft has been in the gaming industry since 2001 to bring the hardware/service ecosystem of the pc to consoles, and only Nintendo is monetizing purely on gaming hardware & software, I really don't think they would choose to subsidize the cost. Of course I still think $399 is enough to make a profit on each switch2, considering it's really coming out in 2025 and not 2023.
I mostly believe it because the percentage cut they get from digital is muuuch bigger than physical
Agree it will be digital only. But i am thinking They may do 'Nintendo selects voucher' program for NSO subscribers where the vouchers are specifically good for a selection of back catalog games than works out to a discount if applied. But the games will remain regular priced on eshop and retail.
Maybe Nintendo select will be exclusive for NSO members, that gives Switch games a 60-80% discount, with improvements on the game, which would be hitting 3 birds with one Stone.
At the very least this tells me they're probably not thinking about Switch 2 as they make this game. A late port, if possible, maybe.I saw this comment about Monster Hunter Wilds where the Director states wanting to push hardware to the max with his game:
Source:
Monster Hunter Wilds director aims to push hardware 'to the max' to bring the world to life: 'Any Monster Hunter game where I'm director is always going to be focusing on the ecosystem'
The World and Wilds director is all about nature.www.pcgamer.com
Makes me wonder if the Switch 2 will get this game or not. What do you guys think? I thought for sure this game would come to Switch 2 but now I'm not feeling as confident if the goal when developing the game was to really push hardware. I guess it really depends on how powerful the Switch 2 really is. Still a lot of unknown in that area.
same as I always thought, it's not going to be hardware that prevents games from coming, but dev desireI saw this comment about Monster Hunter Wilds where the Director states wanting to push hardware to the max with his game:
Source:
Monster Hunter Wilds director aims to push hardware 'to the max' to bring the world to life: 'Any Monster Hunter game where I'm director is always going to be focusing on the ecosystem'
The World and Wilds director is all about nature.
Makes me wonder if the Switch 2 will get this game or not. What do you guys think? I thought for sure this game would come to Switch 2 but now I'm not feeling as confident if the goal when developing the game was to really push hardware. I guess it really depends on how powerful the Switch 2 really is. Still a lot of unknown in that area.
What hardware was he pushing? That's the key element. You can push a Sega Genesis, you can push a Series X - what's the target platform that he's trying to stretch to its limits?
Nothing new here. If they really wanted to push hardware, I assume PS5, they either delayed the Series S version or outright not make that version. In my opinion, I've never believe when devs say they are pushing hardware because its a meaningless statement used for marketing. So in the end this says nothing about a switch 2 versionI saw this comment about Monster Hunter Wilds where the Director states wanting to push hardware to the max with his game:
Source:
Monster Hunter Wilds director aims to push hardware 'to the max' to bring the world to life: 'Any Monster Hunter game where I'm director is always going to be focusing on the ecosystem'
The World and Wilds director is all about nature.
Makes me wonder if the Switch 2 will get this game or not. What do you guys think? I thought for sure this game would come to Switch 2 but now I'm not feeling as confident if the goal when developing the game was to really push hardware. I guess it really depends on how powerful the Switch 2 really is. Still a lot of unknown in that area.
Yup, it’s to be expected, since I can see Capcom focusing more on PS5 and PC in the foreseeable future, meanwhile Switch 2 will receive last gen port.I saw this comment about Monster Hunter Wilds where the Director states wanting to push hardware to the max with his game:
Source:
Monster Hunter Wilds director aims to push hardware 'to the max' to bring the world to life: 'Any Monster Hunter game where I'm director is always going to be focusing on the ecosystem'
The World and Wilds director is all about nature.
Makes me wonder if the Switch 2 will get this game or not. What do you guys think? I thought for sure this game would come to Switch 2 but now I'm not feeling as confident if the goal when developing the game was to really push hardware. I guess it really depends on how powerful the Switch 2 really is. Still a lot of unknown in that area.
current gen hardware, is that not oblious? Capcom want to push Xbox Series X/S and PS5 to the limit
The potential pandemic sales spike was weaker for Sony and MS due to hardware shortages at the time.
there's a million different little limitations in hardware. DD2 pushed the CPU hard (possibly to unreasonable limits), and other games push the GPU hard. Wilds being an open world game, it's a question which limit they go for
Despite its negativity, it’s one of Capcom best selling game of the year.
first: really impressive project.
No, it's not obvious when the same team saying "push hardware to the limit" is also saying "PC is our primary platform." If their target hardware config is PC, they might be grinding the PS5 to dust, or they might be going much lighter. It entirely depends on how many PC players they're trying to reach.
Pushing hardware, always make it seem like it’s not going to be best optimised, since Starfield and DD2 faced performance issues at all consoles and PC and they were paraded to be NG, which is true, but at a lost.
That's pan.... something Koak. I am sorry for butchering his name. But there were things he did such as changing the optimisation flags. Reduce code lines, optimize the way how mario turns. I love it. His famous line is mario traveling 4 parallel universes away.
Not necessarily true. SONY had a monster fy 2023 (2022 to 2023) which led them for forecast 25 million PS5s for 2023 and 2024.
Kaze Emanuar is who you're thinking of, although Pannenkoek2012 is notable for making so many observations about the engine.
Yeah, I feel a shame of forgetting his name. But it was just genius the amount of changes he made.
Not really, it's power consumption data from the dlss documentation, the clock frequencies are not representative of what Nintendo will use, but the power consumption data is informative.Is this one of the first “leaks” at the likely GPU clocks?
3.5 Tflops
At least some of them are - he's applying compiler optimizations that weren't yet available. I don't know what C compiler the original devs were using, but he's rewriting loops so that GCC can unroll them, an optimization that I'm not sure was even detectable by compilers of that era.
not a leak, if i understand correctly, this is just a condensed and combined version of the information from the boards here isnt it?Is this one of the first “leaks” at the likely GPU clocks?
3.5 Tflops
Out of curiosity I looked up MysticDistance related info and it turns out he said the rumor that p5r would be a switch exclusive, so I don't think he has any credibility on the atlus game logging in to switch2 blurb.
This is a fami->internet->fami situation. They're pulling those clock numbers from the Nvidia hack, but there is wide doubt that they mean what the poster assumes they mean. Even if they do mean that, there is a wide gap between tested clocks in 2022 and final clocks in 2025.Is this one of the first “leaks” at the likely GPU clocks?
3.5 Tflops
It seems that those information originally came from this thread, then someone wrote them down as summary and put it to the internetIs this one of the first “leaks” at the likely GPU clocks?
3.5 Tflops
given what can be done now, OoT is probably at 60%
I think that he also got rid of a lot of redundant and useless variables. Merged a few functions. Cut down some instructions. And a community help him find algorithm to for further optimization. Outside of front end and back end, I am not much of a coder, but this shows me some hardcore real world algorithms
You can tell that the 60K is the base if you look closely. It's a lot smoother and more rounded.
i give you the compiler optimization improvements. There was real science with formal models made on universities to make mathematically better optimizations.
is he replacing it? missed that. fair there to, but its not a "new tech".Again, for me new tech is new general scientific discoveries and techniques how you do something, replacing a firmware for a specific hardware is not general progression. In this case: them not realizing that its overkill is exactly a "not enough time to optimize", and not new developments, since there is no new science/formulas/knowledge, just more experience with existing tech.
"Yet they missed this basic thing." that's the thing. its not new techniques, its not new hardware or formulas, its not using the available tech and tools to its fullest because the lack of knowledge, and not endless time to optimize instead of trying to ship a industry moving product.
Oh im not disputing that. And im not trying to be contrarian, i just wanted to point out the progress in that project is less knowledge of 25 years and more "better documentation and development tools (faster pcs, higher resolution screens, great analysis tools) no binding time and cost limit to ship a retail product.
Oh, I remember I saw a picture of~ 10 year
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