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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

It is low poly, the numbers are above. That GoT pic has a lot more removed than just the cel shading and post processing.
there's no polygon count in the image. and it's just the lighting that's removed, nothing else

I believe they do pretty often for character models, everything else including the environments were the elements that didn't generally hit those highs. The difference between the two is noticeable though.
maybe, maybe not. in the few games, I went through they don't. but these weren't the highest budgeted PS4 games

EDIT: the one Ellie model I have from Last of Us Remastered on PS4 is 31K

wKAXo2c.png


No? It's clearly an intended artistic decision that simultaneously helped them hide that fact as a byproduct. Where did you get this from me? Both things can be true at once.
you haven't proven that "hiding the lowpoly-ness" was an intended effect. that's an assumption on your part
 
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Idk if I’m late to a discussion regarding this but is there any potential way the Switch 2 console could be able to wirelessly connect to its more advanced dock somehow?

I recently thought of an idea where if you have your dock set up and wanna play with a wired controller (such as a gamecube controller) but don’t have a TV nearby for whatever reason, you can use a technology like say Bluetooth in both the console and dock to connect them wirelessly. That way the Switch 2 in tabletop mode can detect when a controller is synced via the dock. How viable could a feature like that be if we assume the Super Switch’s dock has more tech put into it?
 
you haven't proven that "hiding the lowpoly-ness" was an intended effect. that's an assumption on your part
Ah I see... yeah, totally fair. I must say it's not the hardest of assumptions to make still, the art designers definitely knew it would help more than it wouldn't, even if that wasn't their main intention. I concede here, can't prove that with anything but logic.
maybe, maybe not. in the few games, I went through they don't. but these weren't the highest budgeted PS4 games

EDIT: the one Ellie model I have from Last of Us Remastered on PS4 is 31K
Hm, that's not bad at all for a remaster... Nice to know at least, how do you find these for PS4 games I haven't ever heard counts of? I'd love to know to do some research myself.
 
Idk if I’m late to a discussion regarding this but is there any potential way the Switch 2 console could be able to wirelessly connect to its more advanced dock somehow?

I recently thought of an idea where if you have your dock set up and wanna play with a wired controller (such as a gamecube controller) but don’t have a TV nearby for whatever reason, you can use a technology like say Bluetooth in both the console and dock to connect them wirelessly. That way the Switch 2 in tabletop mode can detect when a controller is synced via the dock. How viable could a feature like that be if we assume the Super Switch’s dock has more tech put into it?
Just to be clear, the idea is to have wireless connectivity from the Switch to the Dock, and the wired controller connected to the dock?

Even if it were viable, it would be such a niche use case that I can't imagine Nintendo going for that route. If the purpose of a wired controller is to reduce latency/lag, which only stands to be necessary for competitive games, why play handheld in the first place and not seek out a TV to dock? If the controller is dead and battery needs to be charged, it would be more effective to simply sit next to a power outlet, plug in the USB-C cable, and use the controller wirelessly as intended. If it's for niche or 3rd party controllers that have a USB cable dangling out (or Gamecube controller in this case)...either SoL for Smash that you have to use Joycons in handheld/tabletop, or you get one of those third party USB-C adapters to plug a GC controller into the bottom of the Switch port.

For all the new tech being speculated, the dock is what I imagine to have the least improvements made to it. I still fully believe and expect the Switch OLED dock was future-proofed (whether intentionally or by happy circumstance) with HDMI 2.0, and an update dock function that still has yet to be used to unlock 4K60 when an old Switch streams a media app like YouTube/Netflix/Prime/Disney+, or a Switch 2 gets plopped in
 
Yeah, someone was able to mod it out.

zelda-botw.large.jpg

zelda-botw.large.jpg


It's certainly not all cel-shading, but I can't imagine the game being well-received visually looking like this.
the cel-shading was easily the best decision they could've made for this and TOTK, both for the hayao miyazaki-inspired art direction and for still staying within the restraints of the switch hardware.
 
I think they did a great art choice for BOTW, i think a big factor why Zelda exploded in popularity in Japan was due to the new Zelda art style being more Japanese in tone than previously, so not only did the series do a massive jump in Japan it also grew in the west. I also think the new style won't go away, i think with the Switch 2 they will just take this new art style into bigger and better things with new capabilities.
 
I forgot what all happens at the annual meetings. Have they ever announced anything at one of these? Any chance of Switch 2 hints at all?
Switch 2 hints happening here are less than nil. If there's any Q&A (is there? Genuinely not sure if this meeting would), it'll be bog-standard "We'll reveal more at a later date this fiscal year".

The method Nintendo acknowledged Switch 2 at all was via tweet and that it wasn't going to be the focus of the June Direct; people were waiting to dissect these meetings regardless of time zones or language barriers and simply wanted to break the news on their terms, no matter how inconsequential.
 
Switch 2 hints happening here are less than nil. If there's any Q&A (is there? Genuinely not sure if this meeting would), it'll be bog-standard "We'll reveal more at a later date this fiscal year".

The method Nintendo acknowledged Switch 2 at all was via tweet and that it wasn't going to be the focus of the June Direct; people were waiting to dissect these meetings regardless of time zones or language barriers and simply wanted to break the news on their terms, no matter how inconsequential.
I’m mostly curious seeing if Nintendo gets questioned for BC, since the 3ds announcement revealed that it’ll have BC.
 
Idk if I’m late to a discussion regarding this but is there any potential way the Switch 2 console could be able to wirelessly connect to its more advanced dock somehow?

I recently thought of an idea where if you have your dock set up and wanna play with a wired controller (such as a gamecube controller) but don’t have a TV nearby for whatever reason, you can use a technology like say Bluetooth in both the console and dock to connect them wirelessly. That way the Switch 2 in tabletop mode can detect when a controller is synced via the dock. How viable could a feature like that be if we assume the Super Switch’s dock has more tech put into it?
It'd probably be simpler to just use a stand that lets you plug something into the USB port while keeping the console propped up. Anything that can be plugged into the dock's USB ports can also be plugged directly into the console.
I forgot what all happens at the annual meetings. Have they ever announced anything at one of these? Any chance of Switch 2 hints at all?
Usually nothing of note aside from unhinged shareholder questions happens at this particular meeting.
 
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I forgot what all happens at the annual meetings. Have they ever announced anything at one of these? Any chance of Switch 2 hints at all?
In-depth discussion about the company's financial results over the past year, stock dividends, board elections, etc. Basically nothing that most of us would care about. There is the Q&A, but the official English translations of those won't show up until next week, and probably won't tell us anything about Switch 2, with Furukawa basically going "we'll discuss this later in the fiscal year."
 
Ah I see... yeah, totally fair. I must say it's not the hardest of assumptions to make still, the art designers definitely knew it would help more than it wouldn't, even if that wasn't their main intention. I concede here, can't prove that with anything but logic.
Of course designers craft their models with art style, lighting, and rendering efficiency in mind. It's just...how things are done. But the art style came first. It wasn't something they forced upon themselves to mask the inadequacy of the hardware.
 
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A stellar Nintendo Direct will do that.

I'm not too sure successor news will be on the menu I am concerned that the Yen's historic lows will push it's release later into 2025 than most would prefer.
There’s nothing they can do about the Yen’s valuation. They don’t delay the console just because of it. At the last hour, the Yen valuation is an entry registered as a threat in a document. Nintendo will release the console in 2025 because they always intended to
 
I’m mostly curious seeing if Nintendo gets questioned for BC, since the 3ds announcement revealed that it’ll have BC.
I imagine if they do announce it, it'll be in a very corporate-friendly way, something like:

"In order to increase the value proposition of the next console, especially to existing users of Nintendo Switch, we will ensure that all existing Nintendo Switch software is able to be played on the successor at launch. To ensure a smooth transition for existing customers, this will also include the continued support of the Nintendo Account system and Nintendo Switch Online services."
 
I imagine if they do announce it, it'll be in a very corporate-friendly way, something like:

"In order to increase the value proposition of the next console, especially to existing users of Nintendo Switch, we will ensure that all existing Nintendo Switch software is able to be played on the successor at launch. To ensure a smooth transition for existing customers, this will also include the continued support of the Nintendo Account System and Nintendo Switch Online services."
That’s pretty much all I need to hear.

Since BC is going to play a huge role to the Switch 2 success, similar to the PS5 and DS.

Like I’m not expecting any huge revelation, but small tidbit about the Switch 2, since Furukawa has mentioned the Switch online infrastructure for forever and just mentioning BC would make most of the online discourse go away.
 
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There’s nothing they can do about the Yen’s valuation. They don’t delay the console just because of it. At the last hour, the Yen valuation is an entry registered as a threat in a document. Nintendo will release the console in 2025 because they always intended to
Nintendo is probably more eager to launch the system since keeping the Switch 2 lineup in a shelf seems worrisome.

But if the yen is so bad, than Nintendo will bite the dust and sell the console at a lost in Japan, but if it’s cheaper than the PS5 than Nintendo is golden.

but Nintendo main strategy is selling the system early 2025 and stockpiling software and hardware for a holiday push and I’m expecting Pokémon ZA to be the big holiday game, since it’s a universally Belove IP, that’ll keep selling, heck Pokémon ultra moon sold 9M copies, despite it releasing in the death bed of the 3DS.

Also Mario Kart X is going to arrive extremely fast, I’m expecting a May launch and that’ll be the Switch 2 evergreen title.

Out of any of us, Nintendo is probably clenching their cheeks to release the Switch 2.
 
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Ignore raster perf improvements, this is the end of sub-4k gaming. All games enhanced for the PS5 Pro would always run at 4k, 100% of the time. Sure, we all understand that the quality of the upscale might vary, but it's going to be as transformative for Sony as DLSS is for Nintendo.
Can it be? Given both that already most PS5 games are 4K or very near, and that FSR is already there on PS5 as a fair decent DLSS alternative, both seem like incremental steps. I feel like as long as they don't try pushing beyond 4K120, the room for improvement in a shared library will be fairly small in most games. Unless they build a game around PS5 Pro's strength and then leave the game on base PS5 to be rendered at 720p pre-FSR or something. Shorter version: Imagining if PS4 Pro was released as just a 1080p machine with the promise of it being the end of sub-1080p gaming.
The rumors are of a 4x RT performance bump, which would be inline with what Nvidia is doing. Again, let's ignore any rumored raster improvement, we're talking about a machine in the 3060 class of hardware. That's truly amazing.
That's something that has the potential to improve things even given the same frame rate/resolution limits, anyway. Though as someone with a 3060Ti, I've usually found RT to be pretty costly versus what difference it makes to the image.
 
GTa VI is discussed mostly by some fanboys on forums who seem to think it will kill Switch 2, not going to happen. Sure is it awkward to launch a new console and not having the biggest third party game on it? Sure, but everyone knows those kind of games skip Nintendo hardware so it changes nothing from the Switch 1 era.
It's just fanboys perhaps playing the odds and assuming GTA6 will skip Switch 2. Because historically they would be right. But a lot has changed since GTA 5

barring the final Switch 2 specs being very different from what's been speculated/leaked/reported via shipment data I'm 80% sure it will be on Switch 2.

Take2 continue to be a big Nintendo supporter. Just look at where Civilization 7 is landing
 
It's just fanboys perhaps playing the odds and assuming GTA6 will skip Switch 2. Because historically they would be right. But a lot has changed since GTA 5

barring the final Switch 2 specs being very different from what's been speculated/leaked/reported via shipment data I'm 80% sure it will be on Switch 2.

Take2 continue to be a big Nintendo supporter. Just look at where Civilization 7 is landing
to me, and considering rockstar's continually expanded nintendo support come the switch generation, it doesn't make much sense that they would port over red dead redemption 1, gta trilogy, la noire, but not gta v, a game that would assuredly sell like hotcakes to the switch's younger demographic of players (which undoubtedly makes up a large chunk of the gta series' sales lol)

the main considering factor of the rockstar switch releases though, is that none of them contained a separate online mode, with rdr1 outright removing the original online multiplayer, making them far easier endeavors to port

gta v isn't really sold on its own anymore, the package rockstar wants you to buy is gta v + gta online, which is a whole different beast than the base game as online isn't even supported or playable on ps3/360 anymore, which makes gta v essentially a ps4 game at minimum to rockstar, something much harder to port over

with those factors out of the way, with the leaked switch 2 specs finding a healthy spot well above ps4 level and the lessened storage concerns, there should be little doubt that gta v will come over, but if the switch 2 manages to punch above its weight with its hardware (dlss, etc), gta 6 isn't a long shot either, the switch 2 seems like a very capable little trinket and take two, as mentioned earlier, seems pretty eager to continue their support to nintendo
 
That's something that has the potential to improve things even given the same frame rate/resolution limits, anyway. Though as someone with a 3060Ti, I've usually found RT to be pretty costly versus what difference it makes to the image.
at least most UE5 games (for now) give you the option to turn RT off. though I wouldn't be surprised if that started changing. Still Wakes the Deep doesn't allow you to turn off RT (you can probably do it in the ini file, but no one gives enough of a shit to test)
 
Can it be? Given both that already most PS5 games are 4K or very near, and that FSR is already there on PS5 as a fair decent DLSS alternative, both seem like incremental steps. I feel like as long as they don't try pushing beyond 4K120, the room for improvement in a shared library will be fairly small in most games. Unless they build a game around PS5 Pro's strength and then leave the game on base PS5 to be rendered at 720p pre-FSR or something. Shorter version: Imagining if PS4 Pro was released as just a 1080p machine with the promise of it being the end of sub-1080p gaming.
FSR might be doing the same job, but a 4x upscale just isn't good lookingg with FSR, and to my knowledge is rare in console land. If PSSR can make 4x upscales viable that opens a significant way to increase performance without needing to rely on new raster perf. DLSS 4k upscale runs at sub 1ms frame times on mid-high end RTX cards, which makes a full 4k upscale "free" regardless of what the input res is.

I'm only bringing this up in the context of people poo-pooing how transformative the amount of raster perf there is. I'm dubious about Sony achieving DLSS quality results, but if they can simply improve on FSR by one notch, that opens up a way to drive up res/frame rates without needing a huge raster uplift. And if the hardware has substantial RT improvements, you get in the range of the whole Nvidia value proposition. Yes, RT is costly, but hardware is strong enough to make RT at HD resolutions possible, and DLSS PSSR gets you UHD.

I'm also not saying this is how it will play out, just that folks are getting a little ahead of their skis just by looking at the raster uplift and thinking that there isn't any potential here.
 
hardcore gamers who bought zelda and play it seriously are way more than the ones who bought GTA V and play it seriously .
While I may agree with you on the other stuff, how do you know how someone plays something seriously or not? 😜. You only see them buying the game, but you're not in their homes watching them play. Or are they all telling you how they play?
 
That is true. For me the "ugly" Zelda game is Twilight Princess. But, with switch 2, maybe a more realistic approach can look good again, like a Horizon but in Zelda universe.

But to tell the truth, I hope they keep the cartoonistic look Zelda ever had (exept for TP).
cartoony/cel shaded games, age much better then realistic looking games, Wind Waker look amazing, even 20+ year of it release
 
This is like looking at the backside of a theater set and deciding that the whole production will be garbage
It's when the early development footage of GTA6 was leaked and people started talking shit about it, despite it being a early build.

Reminds me when Luigi Mansion 3 was first revealed and people were mixed about the graphics, but overtime the game improved visually.
 
It's when the early development footage of GTA6 was leaked and people started talking shit about it, despite it being a early build.

Reminds me when Luigi Mansion 3 was first revealed and people were mixed about the graphics, but overtime the game improved visually.
Or Xenoblade 2. The game looked rough at the Switch presentation, but looked so much better later on.
 
To keep it solidly on technology - I think that folks are underestimating the potential PS5 Pro upgrade.

It's funny, we talk about how transformative DLSS is, on a tiny tablet where the frame time cost of a 4k upscale potentially approaches 16ms. If PSSR performs anything like DLSS in terms of speed, considering the leaked NPU specs, we're talking about 4k upscaling happening in sub-1ms territory.

Ignore raster perf improvements, this is the end of sub-4k gaming. All games enhanced for the PS5 Pro would always run at 4k, 100% of the time. Sure, we all understand that the quality of the upscale might vary, but it's going to be as transformative for Sony as DLSS is for Nintendo.

The rumors are of a 4x RT performance bump, which would be inline with what Nvidia is doing. Again, let's ignore any rumored raster improvement, we're talking about a machine in the 3060 class of hardware. That's truly amazing.

How many games will actually be built to take advantage, I don't know, but considering the number of PC games built to look great on Nvidia's hardware, it seems like the architecture is already in place for excellent PS5 Pro versions.

The slides say that the PSSR cost is about 2ms per frame, so it's not quite as fast as you're thinking - I would expect sub-1ms speeds to come with PS6. It's hopefully still going to be really nice, though, and improve over time like DLSS.

On the subject of adoption, one cool thing is that it seems PSSR can actually be patched into a PS5 game without needing to do a full-blown Pro patch (which requires reprogramming and an SDK update and whatnot). I'll be interested to see that as well.
 
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The slides say that the PSSR cost is about 2ms or frame, so it's not quite as far as you're thinking - I would expect sub-1ms speeds to come with PS6. It's hopefully still going to be really nice, though, and improve over time like DLSS.

On the subject of adoption, one cool thing is that it seems PSSR can actually be patched into a PS5 game without needing to do a full-blown Pro patch (which requires reprogramming and an SDK update and whatnot). I'll be interested to see that as well.
The fact remains that the main problem is that fsr's 4x upgrades really don't work well as oldpuck said, and dlss's 4x upgrades are near perfect.
 
The fact remains that the main problem is that fsr's 4x upgrades really don't work well as oldpuck said, and dlss's 4x upgrades are near perfect.

Oh, of course - I just wanted to clarify a couple of points. Overall I still completely agree, and I can't wait to see what the effects are on a lot of games. The improvement in upscaling techniques should be pretty extreme in some cases - for example, I think FFVII Rebirth's Performance Mode could actually have a lower internal resolution than the PS5 and still look better. Currently it uses dynamic 1440p that mostly sits at about 1152p combined with some very bad TAA, a PSSR version could probably use 1080p internal. I think they'd probably just keep the dynamic 1440p and we'd see where it landed, though.
 
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