omniryu
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Why? The Switch 2 will likely outsell the Xbox version if they make one. Capcom doesn't like money anymore?
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
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Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Capcom isn't selling any worse than Nintendo platforms on pc right now, and with wilds basically being a 2019 project and officially developed in 2020, it's a certainty that the platforms they're initially targeting for production will only include pc/ps5/xsx/xss.
Gotdatmoneyy
Boo
I've seen your graph and I think it is a vast simplification of what would have actually transpired if the pandemic did not occur.
The system would have peaked in in FY2019 and suffered its declines much earlier. Because of the economic realities of the pandemic, consumers had more disposable income and less options which offset what the decline would have been massively. But also, because of where the Switch was in its lifetime in 2020, the hardware was very profitable already and so into the trailing years where goods have been significantly boosted in price and cost of living crisis has occured in many countries, Nintendo did not need to increase the price of the hardware. Thus, while other good suffered from price increases, the Switch's original price operates in a buffer zone. Additionally, the weak yen makes distribution to regions with lower living wages much easier.
These outcomes are not repeatable. The Switch 1 benefits from a situation that new releases can't replicate. It's more complicated than what I have stated (but this isn't a sales forum and I don't have interest in doing a full blown proper analysis) but the other obvious indicator is if all the people who bought Switch 1 were accelereated purchasers and not net new purchasers that were created, then we should have seen a decline notable decline in overall game spend to below pre pandemic levels as buyers/spenders were exhausted earlier than they should have been. That didn't actually happen. We're back to the general expenditure we'd expect with the typical fluctuations. So where exactly did all the additional revenue come from? Pretty obvious.
The Switch 1 definitely benefitted positively from the pandemic and that will in turn benefit Switch 2. But it isn't going to sell 150m units in the same time frame. That's not repeatable under current conditions.
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Ok, but what if the reason isn't either of those things but for example the main developer having a certain vision that they want to enforce. Or a business deal that is in place with Sony or Microsoft? There have been weirder reasons for a game to skip Switch (cue: "Our game is for grown up people only, Switch has too much happiness")
Thing is we will never be able to say for certain whether X game will reach Switch 2 because we're not at the position to see what could stop a game from appearing, we can only speculate and what seems logic to us may not be as logical in the eyes of the people dealing with this.
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Steve
Chain Chomp
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when certain games come to Switch, it’s downright criminal…. Looking at you KH cloud edition.
But yeah, certain developers either values the Switch or doesn’t, surprisingly Ubisoft has been the biggest supporters, when prince of Persia was 1080/60 on Switch.
BDGAME
Shriekbat
And the Nvidia looks a lot better and more realistic, even been 2 years older.
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Ubisoft is always supporting Nintendo systems.
I wonder how good it did on switch compared to other systems though.
that's largely because Nvidia put some artistic thought into their demos instead of AMD's rushed, "see we can do RT too!" demo
that said, they never did get any better, lol
the talk of physics made me wonder if there are any open sourced RT libraries like there are for physics. a search reminded me that Nvidia put out an open sourced "kickstart" implementation that looks a lot like Epic's Lumen, in that it utilizes a surface cache to store lighting info
XBox version? lol. A Switch 2 version could in theory sell close to the PS5 version. MH Rise is 8+ million on the Switch alone, MH World on PS4 is not much higher than that.
Switch 2 version of Wilds would destroy an XBox version, no doubt about it, and probably even give the PS5 version a run for its money over the long haul.
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Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The xbox version sales aren't worth mentioning, but both MHW and MHR sold quite well on pc, so it's only natural for Capcom to shift their development focus to high-end pc, as it fits in with Capcom's post-2017 strategic shift either way.
Keep in mind we're also talking about the same Capcom that is bringing recent Resident Evil games to the freaking iPhone and made sure that Street Fighter VI could scale to the PS4.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
It is possible for MHWilds to log into switch2, but it certainly won't be synchronized.
There's no way to know that. I can think of 8 million reasons they would want a Switch 2 port early in the product cycle maybe even day 1.
Business wise honestly it actually makes far more sense to focus on a Switch 2 port than the freaking garbage sales they're going to get on the XBox.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
No one doesn't realize that switch2 is far more valuable to wilds than the xbox platform, but unless they had sku's in development for switch2 from the start, there's no reason for Capcom to choose to wait for switch2 right now when the finished product for the ps platforms and pc platforms are right in front of them.
I'll also add a XBox Series S version of MH Wilds basically by default puts the whole notion of "high end PC" to rest, a Series S is low end PC hardware equivalent, if Wilds runs on a Series S, and Capcom has basically stated Series S is getting the game ... well then by default it's not just a "high end PC" game.
A Series S is like what ... equivalent to a 1650 GPU?
A Series S is like what ... equivalent to a 1650 GPU?
I mean the game is still a year out most likely, there's no reason a Switch 2 port couldn't have started already, Capcom almost certainly has Switch 2 kits by now.
You don't need 100 people to port a game, you can set aside 15-20 people and start porting the game now.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
game console performance vs pc gpu performance is not a solid argument, and what xss achieves is arguably even what the 2060 can achieve.
It's even fair to say that most 20-series cards don't have a real gap in how well they implement 9th gen games compared to xss, switch2 will surpass xss in textures and RT, but assuming that wilds has the same cpu performance issues as DD2 I see absolutely no reason to think that it will be logged on switch2.
A 2060 isn't a high end PC card though, Dragon's Dogma II can run OK even on a 2050 as well, which is the GPU most compared to the proposed Switch 2 specs.
Series S is great for Nintendo it ensures that developers have to make a version for a much lower spec.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The performance problem with DD2 is not a lack of gpu performance, the cpu performance problem is very large.
Yes though there's no reason to believe that issue will affect completely different games made by completely different teams. Sometimes a game just has shit optimization as a one off ... happens all the time with other developers.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
I honestly don't see why we should be obsessed with whether or not wilds are on switch2, they could still make a portable monster hunter like Rise did.
Or they could make both on Switch 2 and make more money.
People also I don't think understand Sony did a bunch of exclusivity deal nonsense with Capcom last gen. SFV was PS4 only, and MH World was PS exclusive in Asia and probably even had a deal for no Nintendo version outright.
Like for example did you know Monster Hunter World only released on XBox in Japan a few weeks ago because Sony had like a 5+ year exclusivity deal over it.
Looks like this gen Capcom has stopped making deals with Sony, so MH Wilds having no contractual barriers to coming to Switch 2 is also a big difference.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
This is the kind of unsubstantiated conspiracy theory I don't want to discuss, the fact that MHW couldn't make it to switch1 unless it was specially handled, and the fact that Capcom's aggressive shift to high end platforms with modern AAA game development right after 2017 has led to Capcom's estrangement from Nintendo in the switch era is something that doesn't need any conspiracy theories to be explained.
It isn't a conspiracy theory, Sony did have a contract for MH World. Even the XBox version of World was not allowed to release in Japan until a few weeks ago because that's when the exclusivity contract came off.
Monster Hunter: World to finally release on Xbox in Japan, only six years later - AUTOMATON WEST
Japanese Xbox users will finally be able to play Monster Hunter: World and Monster Hunter World: Iceborne starting June this year.
automaton-media.com
It just released on June 5th, lol, so if you had an XBox One in Japan you would have been waiting like 6 years for this.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
I'm not going to take this conspiracy theory seriously until there's solid evidence that Sony and Capcom signed a contract that includes not logging onto Nintendo platforms, in fact not logging onto the switch was a pretty normal decision for Capcom who desperately needed to quickly transition and show the world what Capcom's next gen development capabilities were after 2017, and the switch, while it has a lot of the graphical capabilities of the 8th gen, the 8th gen is still an era of hardware horsepower comparisons.It isn't a conspiracy theory, Sony did have a contract for MH World. Even the XBox version of World was not allowed to release in Japan until a few weeks ago because that's when the exclusivity contract came off.
Monster Hunter: World to finally release on Xbox in Japan, only six years later - AUTOMATON WEST
Japanese Xbox users will finally be able to play Monster Hunter: World and Monster Hunter World: Iceborne starting June this year.
It just released on June 5th, lol, so if you had an XBox One in Japan you would have been waiting like 6 years for this.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
Your comparison is massively flawed, just as DF's analogy of the 2050 to the T239 completely ignores the fact that the 2050 has a very small amount of VRAM, and the xss is a gaming console that has the RT capabilities of the RDNA2 architecture, an analogy that makes no sense.
So you think Capcom just randomly released MH World in 2024 on the XBox One in Japan a week ago? For what? Shits n' giggles?
They did it because the exclusivity deal had expired.
We don't get full details on Sony's exclusivity nonsense, we saw that in the XBox Activision hearings and we also have seen it again with the weird deals they have with Square-Enix. That's not a "conspiracy", Sony is never going to allow the full details of that stuff out.
2050 having less VRAM would make the comparison more favorable for a Switch 2, not less. A 20 series GPU has advantages over RDNA2 as well, most notably DLSS and better ray tracing.
I would take a 2060 over a XBox Series S every day on the week and twice on Sundays, the 2060 is better hardware. I don't view the Series S as a 2060 equivalent at all. PS5 itself is like maybe a 2070.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
I'll say it again, comparing the performance and horsepower of gaming consoles to pc gpu's is a very poor comparison because it completely ignores the fact that consoles are capable of handling games that they say "comparable gpu's" can't.
That's less to do with any kind of magical power the console has and more to do with the fact that developers specifically optimize for a console whereas they don't for every single GPU. I still take a 2060 over a Series S all day every day.
Danny
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I think much will depend on Switch 2 CPU compared to Xbox series S CPU. We know Switch 2 GPU and RAM will be competitive with Xbox series S, but CPU could be less competitive. And if Monster Hunter Wilds like Dragon's Dogma 2 is a CPU taxing game that means it will take more effort to get it at a playable state for Switch 2.
One thing is for sure: there's far less of an "excuse" to not port over to a Nintendo console than there ever was with the Switch 2. Not that there ever wasn't because the Switch 1 is such a money-maker that it's clearly worth it to get "impossible" ports on it, like Mortal Kombat 1 or Kingdom Hearts in the Cloud.
Not everything will be on it like a few users have said. Maybe they really just don't care because they believe their audience is too "grown-up" for Nintendo. Maybe God of War Last of Us Final Fantasy Part 13 simply isn't something they want on a Nintendo console.
But it's 2024 and not 2004. Trying to be exclusive or stick to the old ways is a death knell. There's a reason why companies like Atlus figured that out and companies like Square-Enix who stubbornly stuck to tradition are struggling so much (aside from their terrible NFT and live-service ventures). Now SE is pivoting hard on a multi-platform approach and this is after them saying Rebirth would only be available on PS5 because of technical reasons. Riiiiiiight~. I expect FF16, Remake, and Rebirth to eventually be playable on the Switch 2 and suddenly their financial prospects are looking better.
More than ever, it's less a technical reason and more of a (poor) business reason to not port onto all platforms and that includes Nintendo's latest and greatest. Money talks and, whatever a developer says about only being available for the most powerful of next-gen consoles, I expect them to change their tune when they realize how little money they're getting and suddenly there's an "impossible" port.
Not everything will be on it like a few users have said. Maybe they really just don't care because they believe their audience is too "grown-up" for Nintendo. Maybe God of War Last of Us Final Fantasy Part 13 simply isn't something they want on a Nintendo console.
But it's 2024 and not 2004. Trying to be exclusive or stick to the old ways is a death knell. There's a reason why companies like Atlus figured that out and companies like Square-Enix who stubbornly stuck to tradition are struggling so much (aside from their terrible NFT and live-service ventures). Now SE is pivoting hard on a multi-platform approach and this is after them saying Rebirth would only be available on PS5 because of technical reasons. Riiiiiiight~. I expect FF16, Remake, and Rebirth to eventually be playable on the Switch 2 and suddenly their financial prospects are looking better.
More than ever, it's less a technical reason and more of a (poor) business reason to not port onto all platforms and that includes Nintendo's latest and greatest. Money talks and, whatever a developer says about only being available for the most powerful of next-gen consoles, I expect them to change their tune when they realize how little money they're getting and suddenly there's an "impossible" port.
BDGAME
Shriekbat
Tô tell the truth, I like that video. The part when the fly robot with the red lantern get close to the wall and the ray tracing make all close walls look more red was really cool.
I can imagine a Luigi's Mansion 4 with Luigi using different kinds of ligth's colors to solve puzzles and get the ghosts. That would be super fun to play and have amazing ligth with Ray Tracing.
Dekuman
Bounty Hunter
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I don't expect there to be any excuses made. There hasn't been many excuses made on Switch. Games that don't make it have obvious reasons why they didn't.
Sometimes decisions are made and Switch isn't a SKU on games some people feel should be on there but there's fewer examples of that than games where people didn't expect to be on Switch but got announced on Switch with a good track record of many of them turning into impossible ports.
I don't think it's a good use of time to pearl clutch and hand wring over this topic this early and on this thread. The discussions keep going on and on in circles.
This will be one of those things that everyone forgets later but will consume hundreds of hours of time of people arguing back and forth about their theories.
There is no third party conspiracy.
Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
I watched MVG's video and his option 5, an upclocked TX1, seems to be the option he has convinced himself is going to happen because it is the easiest. From what I've watched, he doesn't seem to think it will happen but I don't even get the point of bringing up the overclocked X1 as a...
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Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
I saw his livestream but I decided just to watch a different world instead. A 5nm switch? I tried to resist but it was like watching a slow car wreck... Yes he's saying that Nvidia had a version of T239 on both 8nm and 5nm (instead of saying 4N which it is based on) For someone who’s not...
famiboards.com
I'm not as knowledgeable as other users, but isn't the projected CPU supposed to be at least half of what the PS5 can do?
Oh, I don't think there is. "Excuse" may have been too strong a word, but I do believe - more than ever - it's less of a technical reason for a game not making it to Nintendo and more of a business decision. Something that I don't think is wise anymore in today's climate.
Dekuman
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weaker just on core count alone. 6 cores 12 threads vs 8 cores 16 on Series devices.
It's also a mobile chip targeting a different market.
weaker just on core count alone. 6 cores 12 threads vs 8 cores 16 on Series devices.
It's also a mobile chip targeting a different market.
Sorry maybe it's the way that you worded it there but you're saying the ROG Ally CPU is more powerful than what we would expect from the Switch 2?
Dekuman
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sorry no you wrote it right, i misread your post.
Someone else can probably better answer that, but we're expecting Switch 2 CPU to be around 50-60% of the PS5 CPU once you account for all 8 cores/16 threads vs. 8 cores on Switch (no MT on ARM processors); and the Series and PS5 CPUs are pretty similar.
So i'd venture to guess a weaker CPU than what's in the consoles would probably bring that number much closer to parity. I just don't know the specifics
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The era of third-party exclusivity is naturally over, but whether or not to log on to switch2 remains a dual business and technical decision.
Also we are moving away from intuitive comparisons of hardware horsepower, but that doesn't mean the switch2 will enjoy all the dividends so quickly, there is a period of transition and transformation in the industry.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
The core count of ally's cpu is lower than the a78c, but ally's clock frequency is very high, we expect switch2's cpu clock frequency to be around 1.7ghz and 1.8ghz.
Aufhebung RPG
History is tragedy becoming comedy
There are a lot of holes in this guy's analysis, which LIC refuted, and the clock frequency data in the DLSS documentation has no evidence of being tested on drake, so he blindly spiked drake's clock frequency as well as floating point.
oldpuck
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Here is a benchmark. I dunno how you choose to rate these things, "41% of X" rarely becomes something meaningful in my head. Especially when it ignores things like thermal throttling or power budgets.
This is also an optimistic guess on CPU clock speeds from Switch 2, and a almost but not quite identical CPU. That may dial up or down these results, but the rough "class" of CPU we're talking about here is probably right.
Danny
Koopa
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But this got me thinking, maybe Nintendo will be forced to clock Switch 2 much higher than Switch 1 so the CPU gets closer to Xbox Series S, given how games like Dragon's Dogma 2 and Monster Hunter Wilds are CPU heavy games. I mean clearly Nintendo will want games like Monster Hunter Wilds on Switch 2, and that means that it needs as high a CPU as possible.
Just to note, ROG Ally comes in 2 flavors, one using the Ryzen Z1, and the other using the Ryzen Z1 Extreme. Difference is the number of CPU cores and GPU compute units. Also to note, the Z1 with 6 cores is split between 2 high-performance Zen 4 cores and 4 energy-efficient Zen 4c cores. The Z1 Extreme has the full 8 high-performance Zen 4 cores as far as I know.
Has anyone done tests with either APU like @oldpuck did for Steam Deck's Van Gogh. Van Gogh has a 15W limit, and when the GPU is pushed to its max, the CPU is starved of juice so it clocks down (2.4Ghz?). The Ryzens can be configured to go up to 30W. I imagine the Z1 can spend the full load to max the 6 CPU cores and 4 GPU compute units, but with the Z1 Extreme having 8 CPU cores and 12 GPU compute units, I don't know.
Agreed. The previous AMD tech demo, yeah that one was much, much less impressive, but this one was quite decent I thought. Mostly cause it seemed like a proper, fully realized tech demo, whereas the other one seemed extremely rushed out the door (it wasn't even 60 fps even though YT says it was encoded that way!)
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