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News BREAKING: Putin orders Russian troops to Donetsk and Luhansk, eastern Ukraine.

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British Ministry of Defence also confirming this morning that Ukrainian resistance is far greater than Russia anticipated. They are fighting bravely and one reason the night attack on Kyiv hasn't yet worked is because Russian armour and mechanised units are being held up in the approaches to the capital, well outside of it, by Ukrainian defenders. Last night's incursion into Kyiv was by Russian special forces and paratroopers without armoured support, due to that Ukrainian resistance at the initial points of Russia's advance. The MoD assessment is that Russia has largely failed in securing any initial objectives - no control over major population centres and yet to establish air superiority. Russia struck at some outdated positions in their barrages, suggesting an intelligence failure on their part - they didn't realise Ukraine had moved some of its air defence systems, nor how much of Ukraine's air defence relies on mobile kit now. Russia hasn't managed to nullify Ukrainian command and control, either; cyber attacks may now intensify in an attempt to prevent Kyiv from communicating with commanders across the country.

Ukraine bought themselves time, and are fighting bravely, and have prevented Russia from forcing a quick surrender by removing the existing government. But Russia still has yet to commit two thirds of the forces surrounding the country. Of course, the Russians can't commit all of those forces at once, and the movement of forces is stalled due to greater than expected resistance.
Bokuringo said:
According to Marco Rubio, there's something about Putin we don't know that might have influenced his decision.

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French sources, including President Macron, also believe something significant has changed with Putin, based on Macron's recent meetings with him.
 
NarohDethan said:
I mean, the military lies. Like, all the time, from all the countries.
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Ukraine is being invaded. The support it gets from other countries, and it's ability to deploy that support where it is needed, is dependant on them being as knowingly accurate in their military reports as possible.

Moreover, every western military has been providing their own Intel and reports, and verifying the Ukrainian reports.

Moreover moreover: the intelligence and military reports leading up to this were incredibly open and honest. Unusually so. The US and West European nations took a policy of openly reporting what Russia is doing on the border and what current Russian military plans were, as a way to get everything in the open. They were also incredibly up front about what support they could and couldn't offer before the invasion even began.

This is not the conflict to start equating the Ukrainian military or Western military reports with Russia.
 
The SWIFT ban is apparently moving forward:


and here's an explanation on why Cyprus signing on matters:


Reuters: Momentum grows to ban Russia from SWIFT payment system

As positive as I think it is that Germany is coming around on enforcing stricter sanctions - with reservations though considering Germany's dependency on Russian gas and black coal - I wonder if this will be the right way considering this will definitely affect the Russian general public's financials as well. There's also the question of how much of Putin's money is stored in SWIFT-exclusive banks.

Sander RX said:


This is seemingly in response to them getting suspended in CoE.

What a fucking dipshit
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Not so keen on finding out after fucking around, Mr. Medvedev?
 
bellydrum said:
Ukraine's military has made this statement. You don't believe the official statements of the Ukraine army's General Staff, yet you freely and knowingly share Russian state media sources. Got it.
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3500 deaths is more than how many American troops died during the entire two-decade War in Afghanistan, it just doesn't sound feasible.
 
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Yeah I'm personally inclined to distrust both miltaries' statements as they both are incentivized inflate statistics or otherwise lie. Don't get me wrong, Ukraine is clearly in the right here and what Russia is doing is despicable; I'm also more inclined to trust Ukraine's statements than Russia's in situations where the two conflict. However, both nations have strong incentives to inflate things to boost morale for their troops and try and confuse each other militarily.
 
bellydrum said:
Ukraine's military has made this statement. You don't believe the official statements of the Ukraine army's General Staff, yet you freely and knowingly share Russian state media sources. Got it.
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Where did I share Russian state media propaganda? I posted the crazy press conference of Putin and I’m against this insane invasion.

The Ukrainian military does that to push the moral of its soldiers and to be honest I would do the same.

It’s a fact that the Russian army progresses on every frontline.The behavior of the Ukrainian government makes that clear.
It is barring men ages 18-60 from leaving the country, conscripting them as they try to escape and telling civilians to start attacking the Russian invaders with improvised weapons. These are desperation moves
 
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Liha said:
This Twitter guy belongs to the propaganda team of the Ukrainian army
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You'd better back up bold claims like this, especially if you have a history of sharing Russian propaganda resources on this very site.

Liha said:
there are no proofs/photos of the two aircraft carriers or anything.
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It's interesting where you draw the line of believability—US and Belarus have also repeated this story.
Yet you'll unquestionably espouse Russian talking points.

Liha said:
CNN has reported that there are fights from all 4 directions in Kiev and that they are coming closer and closer.
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This does not conflict with the report about the 2 planes. I don't know why you'd mention this other than to pad your comment in order to seem like you have more of a response.

Liha said:
This guy also tweeted about the ghost of Kiev, a hoax about a jet fighter who doesn’t exist. I am afraid the reality check for many people will be brutal.
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I don't think you need to be "afraid" for anybody but the Ukranian people who are defending their home against a ruthless and unwarranted Russian attack.
 
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bellydrum said:
yet you freely and knowingly share Russian state media sources.
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Liha said:
Where did I share Russian state media propaganda?
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It's interesting the way you twisted my words before responding to them. Look at what I said.

I said you share "Russian state media sources".
But you responded, "where did I share Russian state media propaganda"?

Did I say you share propaganda? No, I said you share Russian state media sources. I actually specifically worded my comment such that I was not accusing you of sharing propaganda.

The link you shared is a "buzzfeed-esque" arm of RT, which you knew when you posted.

Don't try to play those games here.
 
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Liha said:
Where did I share Russian state media propaganda? I posted the crazy press conference of Putin and I’m against this insane invasion.

The Ukrainian military does that to push the moral of its soldiers and to be honest I would do the same.

It’s a fact that the Russian army progresses on every frontline.The behavior of the Ukrainian government makes that clear.
It is barring men ages 18-60 from leaving the country, conscripting them as they try to escape and telling civilians to start attacking the Russian invaders with improvised weapons. These are desperation moves
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Answering that last part. The United Kingdom intelligence has some info on that, actually. The people and military of Ukraine have been able to slow down the Russian advance + the "progress" is because Russian troops are ignoring other cities and trying to head directly to Kyiv. It is an artificial progress, as Ukrainian troops and civilians are able to fight against the ones who are left behind to try and take the cities at some point.




In addition, yes; they are conscripting civilians. Though, what do you expect when Russia has 190k troops ready + troops from Belarus + 10k Chechen troops on the way? And yes, they showed on the media how to made Molotov... after they ran out of weapons to hand out to people who wanted to fight in Kyiv.

------------------
On other points, the Ukraine military has confirmes they captured a Russian tank battalion commander. They included a image of the invididual and his IDs in the post where they made the announcement.

 
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Liha said:
It’s a fact that the Russian army progresses on every frontline.
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No it isn't. It's a fact that the Russian army is still moving on Kyiv.

However, it is also becoming evident that their progress has been stalled on a number of fronts, and that they have yet to achieve any of their key objectives.

That doesn't mean Ukraine is going to magically turn this around and win, but it does mean the false narrative of Russia progressing into Ukraine on every front is exactly that: false.

Quite frankly, the Ukrainian resistance over the last few days has been more then anyone would dare think possible.
Liha said:
The behavior of the Ukrainian government makes that clear.
It is barring men ages 18-60 from leaving the country, conscripting them as they try to escape and telling civilians to start attacking the Russian invaders with improvised weapons. These are desperation moves
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Of course Ukraine is desperate. It's been desperate since day one.

It's desperate because it is being invaded by an autocratic regime that refuses to even accept it's status or identity as a nation.

The government is not just telling citizens to defend themselves with improvised weapons. They are also providing civilians with kalashnikovs, weapons training and, as far as can be made out, other military supplies.

This idea they're resorting to telling civilians just to use improvised weaponry to defend themselves is itself a false narrative.

EDIT

Tlozbj has clarified the improvised weaponry situation; they literally ran out of weapons to hand out to civilians in Kyiv, so showed them how to make Molotov cocktails.
 
Liha said:
It’s a fact that the Russian army progresses on every frontline.The behavior of the Ukrainian government makes that clear.
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Nah. Every observation being published indicates Russia's offensive is off course and behind schedule due to their failure to establish air superiority as easily as they (and many Western analysts) anticipated, and due to fiercer than expected resistance from Ukraine. The latest analysis suggests Russia has expended more fuel than they expected by this stage and that this has strained their logistics, which may necessitate a pause. Putin is also calling up reserves.

Ukraine are mobilising every resource they have because they know that they are at a massive disadvantage in armour, aircraft, missiles, artillery, naval assets, and heavy weaponry. On top of that, Putin has denied Ukraine's right to exist. They're fighting for their survival as a nation state - an existential struggle.
 


Germany has, finally, allowed weapon deliveries. I think the howitzers will only be a matter of time now. The way the German government has been dragging its heels has been more than shameful. To some extent I have sympathy for the sentiment that no Russian soldier should have to die from a German bullet, but the situation from WWII to today has, in fact changed and Germany is now on the side of what was then the Allies and Russia is the aggressor.
 
I think the most concerning fact right now is simply that Russia has far more resources they can commit far sooner than anyone can reinforce Ukraine. Hopefully this brave resistance continues and Ukraine retains at least some air defense.
 
sir_AnGer said:


Germany has, finally, allowed weapon deliveries. I think the howitzers will only be a matter of time now. The way the German government has been dragging its heels has been more than shameful. To some extent I have sympathy for the sentiment that no Russian soldier should have to die from a German bullet, but the situation from WWII to today has, in fact changed and Germany is now on the side of what was then the Allies and Russia is the aggressor.
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Germany prefers to sell their weapons on the down low. Despite being an open secret that they provide weapons to various conflict areas around the globe, they like to sweep that under the carpet.
 
JazzPotatoes said:
No it isn't. It's a fact that the Russian army is still moving on Kyiv.

However, it is also becoming evident that their progress has been stalled on a number of fronts, and that they have yet to achieve any of their key objectives.

That doesn't mean Ukraine is going to magically turn this around and win, but it does mean the false narrative of Russia progressing into Ukraine on every front is exactly that: false.

Quite frankly, the Ukrainian resistance over the last few days has been more then anyone would dare think possible.

Of course Ukraine is desperate. It's been desperate since day one.

It's desperate because it is being invaded by an autocratic regime that refuses to even accept it's status or identity as a nation.

The government is not just telling citizens to defend themselves with improvised weapons. They are also providing civilians with kalashnikovs, weapons training and, as far as can be made out, other military supplies.

This idea they're resorting to telling civilians just to use improvised weaponry to defend themselves is itself a false narrative.

EDIT

Tlozbj has clarified the improvised weaponry situation; they literally ran out of weapons to hand out to civilians in Kyiv, so showed them how to make Molotov cocktails.
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To be more exact, went to back to make sure the claim was correct, the reported situation was not even that the government did it, the "instruction" came closer from this side of the Atlantic.. The current report out of Ukraine and US, and verified by fact checkers, is that a Hungarian Revolution veteran from Connecticut, USA, is the source. He called into NPR/WNYC and explained why Ukrainians needed molotov cocktails and began to explain how to make them. Social media and the press then made sure the info reached your everyday Ukrainian, and they began to make them.

www.truthorfiction.com

‘Hungarian Gentleman in Connecticut’ Calls WNYC to Advise...

An Imgur screenshot of a tweet claimed a "Hungarian gentleman in Connecticut" called into WNYC to instruct Ukrainians on self-defense.
www.truthorfiction.com www.truthorfiction.com
 
MisterSpo said:
I think the most concerning fact right now is simply that Russia has far more resources they can commit far sooner than anyone can reinforce Ukraine. Hopefully this brave resistance continues and Ukraine retains at least some air defense.
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There are two big issues working against Russia. Yes, they have massive amounts of military equipment and soldiers, but they don’t appear to have the logistical support and force projection capabilities many had initially anticipated, which is hindering their ability to even establish a firm foothold that isn’t along the border of Russia or Belarus thus far. They may be able to mobilize better in the coming days, but as they take their time doing that, the Ukrainians fortify and receive new arms and support from Allies, while the global opinion further devolves against them. Putin did not expect to need to bring the full strength of the Russian military for this fight after what happened in Crimea and Georgia, and are now dearly paying for it.

The second thing is that Russia is going to face extreme mounting pressure economically and politically as this goes on, and any strong use of destructive force is going to invite more blow back (this is also true internally, as Kyiv and much of Ukraine is culturally significant to the Russian population). This is the same kind of dilemma faced by the US in Iraq or Vietnam, being able to physically defeat your opponent is one thing, being able to outlast them as an aggressor in the face of foreign and domestic pressure is another. Could Russia level Kyiv if they really wanted to, even without nuclear weapons? Yes, but they aren’t going to be willing to pay what that will cost them politically.
 
WestEgg said:
There are two big issues working against Russia. Yes, they have massive amounts of military equipment and soldiers, but they don’t appear to have the logistical support and force projection capabilities many had initially anticipated, which is hindering their ability to even establish a firm foothold that isn’t along the border of Russia or Belarus thus far. They may be able to mobilize better in the coming days, but as they take their time doing that, the Ukrainians fortify and receive new arms and support from Allies, while the global opinion further devolves against them. Putin did not expect to need to bring the full strength of the Russian military for this fight after what happened in Crimea and Georgia, and are now dearly paying for it.

The second thing is that Russia is going to face extreme mounting pressure economically and politically as this goes on, and any strong use of destructive force is going to invite more blow back (this is also true internally, as Kyiv and much of Ukraine is culturally significant to the Russian population). This is the same kind of dilemma faced by the US in Iraq or Vietnam, being able to physically defeat your opponent is one thing, being able to outlast them as an aggressor in the face of foreign and domestic pressure is another. Could Russia level Kyiv if they really wanted to, even without nuclear weapons? Yes, but they aren’t going to be willing to pay what that will cost them politically.
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I agree with most of what you're saying, but I wouldn't underestimate how far Putin is willing to go at this point. I do think, in the long run, this is a serious error, one that will cause huge suffering and one which will likely end badly for Putin; but that endgame is a while off. I am afraid of the kind of damage he will willingly inflict on Ukraine in the meantime. Look at the tactics he was willing to test and employ in Syria, or how he was willing to wage war in Chechnya early in his Presidency. Consider also the warnings from French and American sources that something about Putin's thinking - and perhaps his physical or mental wellbeing -- has changed in a way that means he will now take bigger and more reckless risks.

Yes, eventually, this should end badly for him and for the current Russian regime. But how long does that take, and how much suffering unfolds before then?
 
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Sorry for the semi-double post and the usage of a Russian "media report", but kind of noteworthy considering the tweet that sparked the propaganda talks. Unless Russian propaganda machines are suddenly also giving out pro-Ukraine propaganda, the numbers are real. The Russian News Agency TASS provided similar Russian losses numbers as Ukraine's military did earlier today. One would expect that neither side would be confirming the other's info like this, specially with the tight grip Putin and his oligarchs have over the media. Main difference seems to be Russia claims to have lost only 1 IL-76; when US intelligence has confirmed that just yesterday they had lost 2.



  • 14 aircraft (13 attackers (SU-25 and other CAS) and 1 IL-76)
  • 8 helicopters
  • 102 tanks
  • 536 armored cars and APCs
  • 15 artillery pieces
  • 1 Buk air defense system
  • 3500 soldiers (dead, captured, wounded)
[/SPOILERS]
 
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I think the confusion is caused by the 3500 figure being assumed to be or reported as deaths rather than "casualties", which includes captured, wounded, and dead soldiers. The source in the last post much more clearly states it's the latter.
 
Liha said:
It’s a fact that the Russian army progresses on every frontline.
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No, it's a lie, and Russian propaganda. Your behavior in this thread is very concerning.

Read the post above where a Russian outlet is confirming their losses and consider who you're supporting here.
 
Oheao said:
3500 deaths is more than how many American troops died during the entire two-decade War in Afghanistan, it just doesn't sound feasible.
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Maybe so but if you are seeing all of the losses they are suffering in norther Ukraine it is pretty clear they are losing significant forces. Maybe not 3500 but the death toll is staggering for them.
bellydrum said:
No, it's a lie, and Russian propaganda. Your behavior in this thread is very concerning.

Read the post above where a Russian outlet is confirming their losses and consider who you're supporting here.
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That TASS report isn't exactly confirmation. It was a direct copy of what Ukraine posted which likely means they were hacked or a disgruntled employee posted it. Russian sites have been under siege by hackers recently. With that said, that person you are responding to is displaying some serious bad faith. they've also shown to not know what they are talking about on several occasions even though they speak with a lot of confidence lol. They also previously posted a Russian propaganda source when they could've spent 10 extra seconds to get another.

Quite frankly it was also alarming how they seemed to be in favor of Ukraine surrendering to Russia.
boris_feinbrand said:
Germany prefers to sell their weapons on the down low. Despite being an open secret that they provide weapons to various conflict areas around the globe, they like to sweep that under the carpet.
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Well not anymore. They're going to actively give Ukraine weapons now.
 
Hocot8 said:
With that said, that person you are responding to is displaying some serious bad faith. they've also shown to not know what they are talking about on several occasions even though they speak with a lot of confidence lol. They also previously posted a Russian propaganda source when they could've spent 10 extra seconds to get another.

Quite frankly it was also alarming how they seemed to be in favor of Ukraine surrendering to Russia.

Well not anymore. They're going to actively give Ukraine weapons now.
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Yeah, I'd love to have an update on whether @Liha still thinks Ukraine should roll over.
 


This is highly concerning to me. Is this fuck already desperate enough to use thermobaric weapons on population centers?

AFAIK these are the weapons that leveled Groznyi
 
Chechen troops are seemingly trying to retake the Hostomel airfield for Russia. However, reports are that one of the top warlords of Kadyrov's regime has been killed in battle.



As a gay guy who felt horrorized when reading about the anti-gay purges carried out by Kadyrov's regime... Glory be to the brave Ukrainian soldiers who finally brought one of these demons to justice 🙌🏽!
 
bellydrum said:
Yeah, I'd love to have an update on whether @Liha still thinks Ukraine should roll over.
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Ukraine will lose, it’s just a matter of time. They should roll over because Russia can’t occupy the country forever and time is on their side. As I said before, Russia will start bombing cities to dust if they don’t make any progress and the outcome will be the same - Ukraine loses - but with a huge human toll and infrastructure damage.
 
Liha said:
Ukraine will lose, it’s just a matter of time. They should roll over because Russia can’t occupy the country forever and time is on their side. As I said before, Russia will start bombing cities to dust if they don’t make any progress and the outcome will be the same - Ukraine loses - but with a huge human toll and infrastructure damage.
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This kind of fear mongering is absolutely unneeded and unacceptable.
 
The Ukrainian defence has already been so incredible.

If they have managed to take out one of the Chechnan warlords who was literally sent there to fuck their shit up and take one of their airfields, then they really are going absolutely above and beyond.

Whatever happens, Ukraine is going to be an example for the rest of the 21st century in how to fight against the odds.
 
Liha said:
Ukraine will lose, it’s just a matter of time. They should roll over because Russia can’t occupy the country forever and time is on their side. As I said before, Russia will start bombing cities to dust if they don’t make any progress and the outcome will be the same - Ukraine loses - but with a huge human toll and infrastructure damage.
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Quite honestly; get the fuck out with this.

Russia has fucked up every step of the invasion so far, and your opinion is that Ukraine should just roll over and give up their entire identity as a country?

You realize that means a puppet government in thrall to Russia? It means the same sort of corruption and political violence that the Kremlin has normalized against protestors, dissidents and politicians. It means the sort of widespread human rights atrocities such as those carried out in Chechnya, where actual fucking purges against gay individuals are a thing, along with state sponsored murder and torture on an industrial scale.
 
Liha said:
Ukraine will lose, it’s just a matter of time. They should roll over because Russia can’t occupy the country forever and time is on their side. As I said before, Russia will start bombing cities to dust if they don’t make any progress and the outcome will be the same - Ukraine loses - but with a huge human toll and infrastructure damage.
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Buildings and infrastructure can be rebuilt.

If they lose this war and Russia takes forcible command over the country, it will do immeasurably more damage. It will still mean a huge human toll and constant poverty and punishment for the populace. There's no easy way out of this without a severe human toll, and that's why they're evidently fighting so hard.
 
Liha said:
Ukraine will lose, it’s just a matter of time. They should roll over because Russia can’t occupy the country forever and time is on their side. As I said before, Russia will start bombing cities to dust if they don’t make any progress and the outcome will be the same - Ukraine loses - but with a huge human toll and infrastructure damage.
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With how low the Russian Ruble is going right now, I hope whatever they're paying you for this effort is adequate.
 
Liha said:
Ukraine will lose, it’s just a matter of time. They should roll over because Russia can’t occupy the country forever and time is on their side. As I said before, Russia will start bombing cities to dust if they don’t make any progress and the outcome will be the same - Ukraine loses - but with a huge human toll and infrastructure damage.
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spineless.
 
Correct me if I am mischaracterizing your position @Liha, but it seems to me that you oppose Russia's invasion but are speculating under an assumption that Ukraine has no chance of victory.

While others are insinuating that you are aligned with Russia, it seems to me that your pessimism is. While I feel that the attacks being levied against your motivations here are unfair, I do think that armchair tactical analysis is callous to the real human cost.

Regardless of your feelings about the attacks, whether you align with Russia as others seem to be implying or are sympathetic to Ukraine as I have perceived, making tactical analysis as an uninformed layman trivializes the actual consequences of current events.

For this reason I have largely avoided discussion of the issue, as I feel there is no empathetic discussion to be had.
 
Kadyrov's convoy has seemingly been crushed in Hostomel. So not only was Magomed Tushayev eliminated, but seemingly the whole convoy too.

 
I am honestly super impressed with Ukraine, the people fighting for their country are really a huge inspiration.

It really seems between a swift economic blow, and Ukraine's absolutely amazing defense, Russia has no choice but to stop.

But, this could cause Putin to dig in his heels too. But I don't know how he will do that, when literally all of his people will be starving and inflation will go through the roof.
 
Lozjam said:
I am honestly super impressed with Ukraine, the people fighting for their country are really a huge inspiration.

It really seems between a swift economic blow, and Ukraine's absolutely amazing defense, Russia has no choice but to stop.

But, this could cause Putin to dig in his heels too. But I don't know how he will do that, when literally all of his people will be starving and inflation will go through the roof.
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Russia will not stop right now. We haven't even seen the worst of what he is willing to do but I fear we will soon. They are already bombing hospitals, and maybe it's not on purpose but it shows that they don't care.
 
Hocot8 said:
Russia will not stop right now. We haven't even seen the worst of what he is willing to do but I fear we will soon. They are already bombing hospitals, and maybe it's not on purpose but it shows that they don't care.
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The problem for Russia is that this war is now going to cost them billions a day to maintain, and their economy has just been tanked.

As far as we can tell, Putin's plan was to take Kyiv and install a puppet regime over the weekend, and call it a victory from there. Now his forces are being held up on multiple fronts, the vehicle losses are catastrophic, and it's become painfully obvious that even if Kyiv is taken, the Ukranians are going to keep fighting.

If he does decide to keep fighting, it is going to absolutely ruin the Russian economy.
 
Anybody got a reliable source or website reporting on Putin meeting allies of his regime at a bunker in the Urals? Saw some stuff on Twitter but no idea if it's reputable.
 
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