It’s fucking insane how poorly Russia is doing.
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News BREAKING: Putin orders Russian troops to Donetsk and Luhansk, eastern Ukraine.
It’s fucking insane how poorly Russia is doing.
Anton Sugar
Rattata
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- He/Him
I wonder how these casualty numbers are calculated?
D
Deleted member 2484
Guest
This Mariupol maternity hospital thing has really upset me. I know that it's all upsetting but this has really, really got me. I know that it should but I think I might be at my limit for what I can personally look at. This is awful. This is fucking awful.
Heron
Koopa
To join the sanctions talk - The sanctions make perfect sense if you actually care about doing something meaningful to stop the war in Ukraine.
You can't actually join the war due to potential nuclear repercussions. What you need is Putin out of power. So you sanction the shit out of his inner circle and Russia in general in an effort to get them to rise up and overthrow him and reverse his insane self-serving decisions. Or put enough pressure on him so that he fears that, and reverses course.
Further, it puts in place a very important precedent that the west won't just idly sit by and allow a fellow nuclear power to invade an adjacent nation and murder and kill their citizens under cover of threatened mutually assured destruction. Not without being entirely divorced from the world community and economy as punishment. That is blatantly and obviously the right thing to do. The fact that it should have been done to Israel years ago for what they have done to Palestine does not change the fact that it is right that it is being done to Russia now.
The sanctions won't work right away as Russia produces much of its own produce and other products. But it will put severe pressure on them over time. And Ukraine has been doing a good job buying that time with their impressive defense of their home soil.
I do understand the arguments that sanctions usually don't work - but this is because they are usually weak enough that they don't cause the necessary shock to the people that matter, and they usually don't involve private business in a meaningful way. Regarding private business getting involved, Visa and Mastercard stopping payments in Russia, for example, is going to really, really screw over a huge amount of the Russian citizens including the oligarchs. It's an immediate quality of life hit for the whole country.
And on the "pro" side we saw how Obama and Biden leveraged sanctions to get a good result in Iran (before Trump irrevocably fucked it all up).
My ultimate point about sanctions is that they should be used as a short, sharp attack to cripple a country to stop it in an emergency, and then lifted once that emergency has passed. (Russia) They shouldn't be used to slowly bleed out a country because you dislike the government in place. (Afghanistan) That only harms the civilians, and doesn't have the force of emergency behind it to justify such harm.
But ultimately, in this specific situation, what other recourse is there?
You can't actually join the war due to potential nuclear repercussions. What you need is Putin out of power. So you sanction the shit out of his inner circle and Russia in general in an effort to get them to rise up and overthrow him and reverse his insane self-serving decisions. Or put enough pressure on him so that he fears that, and reverses course.
Further, it puts in place a very important precedent that the west won't just idly sit by and allow a fellow nuclear power to invade an adjacent nation and murder and kill their citizens under cover of threatened mutually assured destruction. Not without being entirely divorced from the world community and economy as punishment. That is blatantly and obviously the right thing to do. The fact that it should have been done to Israel years ago for what they have done to Palestine does not change the fact that it is right that it is being done to Russia now.
The sanctions won't work right away as Russia produces much of its own produce and other products. But it will put severe pressure on them over time. And Ukraine has been doing a good job buying that time with their impressive defense of their home soil.
I do understand the arguments that sanctions usually don't work - but this is because they are usually weak enough that they don't cause the necessary shock to the people that matter, and they usually don't involve private business in a meaningful way. Regarding private business getting involved, Visa and Mastercard stopping payments in Russia, for example, is going to really, really screw over a huge amount of the Russian citizens including the oligarchs. It's an immediate quality of life hit for the whole country.
And on the "pro" side we saw how Obama and Biden leveraged sanctions to get a good result in Iran (before Trump irrevocably fucked it all up).
My ultimate point about sanctions is that they should be used as a short, sharp attack to cripple a country to stop it in an emergency, and then lifted once that emergency has passed. (Russia) They shouldn't be used to slowly bleed out a country because you dislike the government in place. (Afghanistan) That only harms the civilians, and doesn't have the force of emergency behind it to justify such harm.
But ultimately, in this specific situation, what other recourse is there?
FluffyPower
Devil Bringer
- Pronouns
- They
Wish I could add something new to the conversation but like everyone I'm simply astounded by how badly Russia is doing and outraged at the shelling of Ukrainian cities and hospitals. Putin showed himself for the despot he is and what happens when you are an autocrat who runs the country with a bunch of billionaire's who steal everything (hint: They steal everything and you are left with crumbling infrastructure). The entire mystique around Russian military supremacy is gone, replaced by a paper bear unfortunately at the cost of tens of thousands of lives and counting. I'd love to see the fuckers at the Hague for all the war crimes (careful when browsing social media people, a lot of this stuff is uncensored), but that's unlikely I know. To all Ukrainian Fami members, stay safe and my prayers are with you.
Slava Ukraini
Slava Ukraini
Fuck! How stupid are they?
Linkstrikesback
Starman
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- He
Hate this meme because it's always done the wrong way around. At that point, his eyesight is fixed by non descript Spiderman powers, so the no glasses image is where he can see properly
Starphanluke
Paratroopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
This would be the dumbest fucking thing he can do... so of course he'll do it.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Russia says it will drastically reduce attacks around Kyiv
Figured this was a big enough development to update the thread.
Following the developments, it seems as though the Russian offensive on Kviv is close to petering out. It's unclear whether a reduction in troops around Kyiv would signal some form of ceasefire: more likely, Russian troops are being redeployed to the Eastern sections of Ukraine to try and hold the Russian "gains" (ie- desperately keep Donbas and Crimea as some sort of pathetic victory).
It's impossible to overstate how incredible the Ukranian resistance has been over the last few weeks. At the start of the invasion, most people assumed a Russian victory was inevitable. Now, it looks as though there is a real possibility for Ukraine to expel Russia from its borders. If the Russian army keeps taking losses the way they have, Putin even keeping Donbas or Crimea could potentially become infeasible.
Figured this was a big enough development to update the thread.
Following the developments, it seems as though the Russian offensive on Kviv is close to petering out. It's unclear whether a reduction in troops around Kyiv would signal some form of ceasefire: more likely, Russian troops are being redeployed to the Eastern sections of Ukraine to try and hold the Russian "gains" (ie- desperately keep Donbas and Crimea as some sort of pathetic victory).
It's impossible to overstate how incredible the Ukranian resistance has been over the last few weeks. At the start of the invasion, most people assumed a Russian victory was inevitable. Now, it looks as though there is a real possibility for Ukraine to expel Russia from its borders. If the Russian army keeps taking losses the way they have, Putin even keeping Donbas or Crimea could potentially become infeasible.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Hopefully that sticks, though it’s not the first time they’ve said they were pulling back from Kyiv but didn’t follow through. I really don’t see a situation where the Ukrainian people accept any loss of territory, especially as they now have both momentum and international support. I think the best case scenario for Russia is a pre-war reset, with Crimea remaining under their control, and recognizing the self declared independence of the eastern territories, but with Ukraine ceding neither officially.
KC Hazel
Like Like
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- She/Her
Russia needs to start preparing an off ramp. Between their failed objectives, increasing sanctions and the clear will to fight of the Ukrainian people, they have to realize the ends wont justify the means here. They weren't prepared for a prolonged campaign and the means to keep supporting it will dwindle. I could also imagine the longer this war goes on, the less popular it will be for Russian citizens that were told it wasn't a war. This heartbreaking senseless violence needs to end as soon as possible.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
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- He/Him
Personally, I can't see Ukraine letting Russia keep Crimea and Donbass.
Putin's self proclaimed ownership of those regions is what led to this mess in the first place. If Russia continues to treat them as Russian territories, then that leaves the door open for a third invasion of Ukraine down the line.
Given what a shambles the Russian invasion has been, I can't imagine a scenario where Ukraine doesn't do every thing they can to force Russian troops out of those eastern territories, and firmly try to re establish pre-2014 borders. It denies Russia any sort of claim of a victory, and firmly establishes this sorry debacle as their very own version of the Suez crisis.
KC Hazel
Like Like
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- She/Her
And unfortunately I don't see Russia giving up Crimea either. That would be too big of a failure for Putin to lose territory in the process of this invasion.
Rainbow
Bob-omb
No one should believe anything of what these russian facists are saying. They proofed over and over again, that you can't trust them. I have absolutely no idea how any deal with them could be trusted.
Ukraine has any right to annihilate them as much as possible until those children murderers withdraw from ukrainian territory
Ukraine has any right to annihilate them as much as possible until those children murderers withdraw from ukrainian territory
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I don't think he'll willingly give it up, but I'm also not sure he's going to be able to keep it.
If nothing else: the area of Ukraine hit hardest by Russian violence is the same area Putin was claiming is calling out to join Russia. They've been scouring Donbass for young men to conscript and send into the meat grinder.
I can only imagine the past four weeks has done an absolute number on Russian support within those regions. While it's arguable that support was always something of a figleaf, when you combine that with a poorly supplied, badly busted and corrupt army that's failed all of it's military objectives so far, and the fact that the Ukrainian army will be pushing them as far East as they can get them, I'm not sure what Putin can realistically do.
Maybe I'm being optimistic, but it really feels like a number of chickens are coming home to roost for Putin.
KC Hazel
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- Pronouns
- She/Her
I really hope you're right and Russia is forced to withdraw from Ukraine completely.
- Pronouns
- he/him
So quite a bit happened last night.
Two Ukrainian helicopters crossed into Russian territory and partially destroyed a fuel depot.
Ukrainian forces may have also recaptured Ivankiv, a strategically important town NW of Kyiv. If true, this will both mean that the Kyiv theater of the war is effectively ended aside from artillery strikes, and that a large portion of the Russian army dedicated to the Kyiv theater are nearly encircled and in danger of capture.
Also, Japan is reiterating their claims of the Northern Territory islands which have been occupied by Russia since WW2. Russia and Japan never signed a treaty, and are still technically at war. This has been downplayed for a long time, but rhetoric is heating up.
New conscripts are also being called up in Russia, which is normal for the spring, but the interesting part is this is also when current conscripts are supposed to go home. If they do not return, either because of casualties or because they are still needed, this will probably damage public perception of the war amongst the families of the deployed.
Two Ukrainian helicopters crossed into Russian territory and partially destroyed a fuel depot.
Ukrainian forces may have also recaptured Ivankiv, a strategically important town NW of Kyiv. If true, this will both mean that the Kyiv theater of the war is effectively ended aside from artillery strikes, and that a large portion of the Russian army dedicated to the Kyiv theater are nearly encircled and in danger of capture.
Also, Japan is reiterating their claims of the Northern Territory islands which have been occupied by Russia since WW2. Russia and Japan never signed a treaty, and are still technically at war. This has been downplayed for a long time, but rhetoric is heating up.
New conscripts are also being called up in Russia, which is normal for the spring, but the interesting part is this is also when current conscripts are supposed to go home. If they do not return, either because of casualties or because they are still needed, this will probably damage public perception of the war amongst the families of the deployed.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Grim stuff coming out about the Russian army mass executing civilians in the areas they're now retreating from.
I won't link any articles or tweets here as the content is obviously highly disturbing, but suffice to say the Russian army were pillaging, looting and murdering their way through parts of Ukraine, and the civilians of Ukraine were forced to suffer.
At this point, war trials need to be held for every Russian politician who didn't oppose this.
I won't link any articles or tweets here as the content is obviously highly disturbing, but suffice to say the Russian army were pillaging, looting and murdering their way through parts of Ukraine, and the civilians of Ukraine were forced to suffer.
At this point, war trials need to be held for every Russian politician who didn't oppose this.
Magic-Man
Perseus Jackson
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- He/Him
It's genocide, and Putin is going to get away with it because of his "toys". The most we can hope for is the soldiers who did this to be locked up or killed.
Yazmat
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To tell the truth, it's really not. When the central ideology of your country is "we beat the nazis in 1945", when you change the afterwar message from "never again" to "we can repeat", when you dehumanize Ukraine through the news for 8 years, you get this.
I'm from Russia and this is just really fucking horrifying and devastaing for me, never in my life I would have thought that I would be surrounded by the actual bloodthirsty cultists, who can just brush it all with "we had no choice/they deserved it".
KC Hazel
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- She/Her
Whoops, I meant to say not unexpected, based on the similar Russian military campaigns as of late.
Are you still in Russia now? Hopefully things haven't been too bad for you there if so.
Yazmat
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Yep, still there, it's not like that I can leave, cause I'm a low-wage and never thought that I would really need to save up some money for times like this (I was wrong). Plus, I have my parents and friends here and they are not gonna leave. There is also the feeling that I won't be welcome in another countries. Yes, we can say that not all russians are supporting the war, but what does it change? My country is destroying cities, villages, houses, people's lives. Many are hating us after all we have done and I can't blame them, I have no moral right for that. For now, I'm just hoping that this senseless war ends soon.
KC Hazel
Like Like
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- She/Her
Sorry for what you're going through, I know that can't be easy. I would like to think there are a large number of people that understand that being Russian doesn't make you responsible for the actions of your government. Hopefully this all comes to an end sooner rather than later.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
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- He/Him
Allegedly the 13km Russian convoy that was moving through the Donbas region to reinforce/resupply the Russian eastern offensive got wiped out by the UA last night:
Fairly significant development if true: Russia's current aim of taking and annexing the Eastern regions of Ukraine will only work if they can successfully move their troops from the north and re mobilize them in the East without getting shot or blown up en route.
News like this suggests that even when scaling down their stated aims and trying to go for easy victories, Russian logistics and tactical planning are still embarrassingly inept. If the above is true, it's yet more evidence of what happens when you let your army be run by a corrupt and inadequate oligarchy
Fairly significant development if true: Russia's current aim of taking and annexing the Eastern regions of Ukraine will only work if they can successfully move their troops from the north and re mobilize them in the East without getting shot or blown up en route.
News like this suggests that even when scaling down their stated aims and trying to go for easy victories, Russian logistics and tactical planning are still embarrassingly inept. If the above is true, it's yet more evidence of what happens when you let your army be run by a corrupt and inadequate oligarchy
Yazmat
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Meanwhile, Kadyrov said that we'll be going after Kiyv again after we "liberate" Donbas. I just don't understand their thinking process anymore...
I'm not sure Kadyrov has any thinking process beyond "Let's do what putin says" tbh
Yazmat
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean our government as a whole. Ffs, you can't keep boasting about "we will take Kyiv" and make four regions near the Ukrainian border stand on high alert for "terrorist attacks" at the same time.
I'm really hoping that I'm wrong, but something tells me that the next few weeks would be the worst (because they need some kind of victory to present near the 9th of May).
Illucio
I can lift a solid two leaves 🍃
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- He
Most of Russia themselves are not for this war to begin with. I'm sure a lot of troops/soldiers don't even want to be doing this either. It's honestly not surprising they are doing very poorly. Not to mention nearly the entire world is also cutting ties with Russia hurting them financially and will make keeping this war going harder over time.
I really want to see Putin keep losing, but I also feel for the many Russians who want nothing to do with this war and been stuck under Putin's corruption for so long.
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
To add to this:
Russia is really fucking corrupt. The government is corrupt, the military is corrupt, every aspect of the state is corrupt.
When you have a military where the structure is based on how much money you can give Putin and how much money you can skim off contracts, purchases etc, combined with the fact that Putin loves to have an occasional purge and murder high ranking generals and commanders he sees as a threat... it's abundantly clear that this is what happens when you allow a military to be subject to that level of corruption.
The command staff aren't there due to merit, they're there because they're corrupt. Anyone who was any good at their job probably got murdered. There are credible reports of widespread sexual assault and even sexual slavery within the Russian army, which the generals and commanders profit from. This is what happens when you treat your national military as a piggy bank/hitlist, not an arm of defence for the state.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Reports are coming in that Ukraine has struck the Russian Cruiser Moskva (“Moscow”) with Neptune Missiles, that it is currently on fire and potentially in danger of sinking. This is pretty huge, both tactically as this is the Russian flagship in the Black Sea, and for morale, as this was the “Russian warship, go fuck yourself” ship.
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- Pronouns
- he/him
JazzPotatoes
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I'm not sure claiming your own boat sank to a fire you allowed to start is the PR win the Russians think it is.
Massive props to the Ukrainian army.
Massive props to the Ukrainian army.
