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News BREAKING: Putin orders Russian troops to Donetsk and Luhansk, eastern Ukraine.

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Yeah, I’m feeling uneasy here. While I still believe that it’s Putin answer to the sanctions of the west, the threat of nuclear weapons is alarming. Especially as a Dutchy, Putin doesn’t care for us. Rotterdam’s port is being used for NATO supply lines as well and I can see it being a potential target.

But his daughter is still in the Netherlands, so he might be somewhat reluctant to push the button.
 
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Awena said:



Edit : AP update about this :

Click to expand...

Although this sounds scary (any threat of nuclear weapons would be), it’s also him talking big responding to the sanctions that have backed up into a corner. That and Russia is losing, Putin probably thought it’d be easier. I hope he continues to lose and not get what he wanted out of this. Just sad that so many innocent people are injured, killed or displaced because of this monster.
 
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Even if he orders the use of nuclear weapons, I bet given the circumstances that those orders would not be fulfilled. They'd be the last deseparate orders of a madman who then really would be executed by somebody close to him .

Everyone is aware that this war is illegitimate and that even if they used them then they would be destroying Russia too.
 
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Yeah, I personally have a hard time seeing Russian higher ups agreeing to use nuclear weapons, especially on Ukraine. The Ukrainians aren't dehumanized in the eyes of Russian soldiers, so to use nuclear weapons on them would probably cross a line.
 
Brewster123 said:
Yeah, I personally have a hard time seeing Russian higher ups agreeing to use nuclear weapons, especially on Ukraine. The Ukrainians aren't dehumanized in the eyes of Russian soldiers, so to use nuclear weapons on them would probably cross a line.
Click to expand...
It's largely cold war era saber rattling and brinksmanship. They are more trying to send a message to NATO and the sanctioning nations about what he perceives as intervention and interference.
 
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Yeah, the interpretation of the particular order Putin gave I've seen reported in British outlets and the NY Times is that it means nuclear forces are ready to retaliate against Nato, not that Russia is preparing for a first strike scenario. In the latter case, nuclear armed bombers would be put in the air so that they can launch strikes whenever. A responsive posture is less dramatic than that. It might also be aimed at a domestic audience - designed to try and create a sense of external threat to Russians from Nato.

It's posturing, also designed to pressure Ukraine's negotiators and designed to make Nato think twice about any further support to Ukraine. Some of Russia's force deployment is also being described as aimed at deterring Nato from intervening - long range air defense systems have been moved into Belarus, and lots of naval assets around the Black Sea (not only around Crimea and Ukraine's coast). How much of that is posturing is unclear; Nato members have all repeatedly ruled out any military intervention. Perhaps it just says a lot about Putin's mindset at this point.

Seems pretty clear Putin has been taken off guard by the strength of Ukrainian resistance and at how quickly the Western response has escalated. Not only the (partial?) suspension from Swift, but also the radical shift in German foreign policy this weekend. Putin has underestimated his perceived enemies.
 
Zelenskyy's office confirmed the defeat of Kadyrov's convoy in Hostomel yesterday.




The Kyiv Independent also gave an update on Russian losses per the Ministry of Defense




While supposly, some oligarchs are beginning to crack under pressure. Which would explain why Putin is suddenly activating his "detterence forces". A popular uprising among the Russian people in the making, getting beaten to a pulp in Ukraine, and the current sanctions already have some oligarchs revolting. He knows where this is going, and he will use all possible threats to remain in power.

 
I don't know if it's already a known fact or not but one of the lead gameplay designer currently at Remedy, who previously worked on games like Control and RIME, seems to have the flag of the far-right Ukrainian Insurgent Army as his twitter banner
 
This isn’t the same thing as State sponsored boots on the ground, but it does look like some American and British Special Ops veterans are going in as part of a volunteer foreign military unit.

 
Staff Communication
  • Index
    • Staff Communication
    As events continue, please be mindful of antagonistic posting towards each other. Tensions will get high, but as a community, we must remember that all we can do is be supportive of each other as everyone is just dealing with this in their own way.

    Since we've had so many reports in this thread so far, if it gets to be too much, we will have to close the thread for a bit and give everyone a chance to cool down. We don't want to do this, because everyone needs a safe place to talk about these type of important/historical things, but will if we must. So please help by self regulating and rereading what you're about to press send on. Are you directly @ing someone in a negative light? Maybe delete that part. Is your source less than reputable? Maybe find another or two to replace and back it up. -blondkayvon, Harina, hologram, Rika, Squiddo
     
  • Index
    • WestEgg said:
    This isn’t the same thing as State sponsored boots on the ground, but it does look like some American and British Special Ops veterans are going in as part of a volunteer foreign military unit.

    Click to expand...


    And based out of Poland? Team 4859
     
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    Awena said:
    I don't know if it's already a known fact or not but one of the lead gameplay designer currently at Remedy, who previously worked on games like Control and RIME, seems to have the flag of the far-right Ukrainian Insurgent Army as his twitter banner
    Click to expand...

    He does appear to.

    The Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainian: Українська повстанська армія, УПА, Ukrayins'ka Povstans'ka Armiya, abbreviated UPA) was a Ukrainian nationalist paramilitary and later partisan formation.[1] During World War II, it was engaged in guerrilla warfare against the Soviet Union, the Polish Underground State, Communist Poland, and Nazi Germany.[2][3][4]
    Click to expand...

    It doesn't take long on his Twitter feed to see where he stands on Russia and Ukraine.

    .....

    But also:

    It was the primary perpetrator of the ethnic cleansing of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia.[6][7]
    Click to expand...

    I'm not familiar enough with the culture to know the main modern use, or stance, or multiple possible stances and possible approprations of this peice of symbology. It's a bit overwhelming. And his stance on the feed and with this banner, I'm just lost in the sauce.

    Is there anyone here who is familiar and can lay out all the groups and stances that would use this symbology and for what reasons/stances?
     
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    WestEgg said:
    This isn’t the same thing as State sponsored boots on the ground, but it does look like some American and British Special Ops veterans are going in as part of a volunteer foreign military unit.

    Click to expand...

    I think its close to the line, but they are not under any order(s) and I assume it's all on their own dime.
     
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    Awena said:
    The main bits I know about the modern use of this flag is that it's currently used by the far-right nationalist party "Right Sector" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector
    I've also seen this flag in some demonstrations in the last few years
    Click to expand...

    Wow. That is a very convoluted history. Between right sectors.... self serving and adept PR, and Russia's disinformation campaign there is a lot to digest. There are still multiple non Russian propaganda sources sources pointing to a neo Nazi component, despite right sector leadership wanting to disavow and distance from it.

    But they completely, openly, and flagrantly display extreme homosexual and transexual hatred. There is no attempt to pr this open bigotry.

    So while they may be pro Ukraine and very anti russia, unlike too many of the right wing talking heads on my side of the ocean. It's still.... Pretty damn gross.

    And really disappointing. I really liked Rime. But I definitely won't be able to think about it the same as I used to now.
     
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    I stand with the Ukrainian people and those fighting against war.

    And I hope the Russia will use this opportunity to overthrow their asshole government.
     
    Probably posted, but the pre-scheduled articles congratulating Putin's victory went up on Russian state-owned news sites and were promptly deleted. They give a good insight into what Putin's aims are.

    Read this thread



    Look at this fucking imperialism.
     
    Sander RX said:
    Probably posted, but the pre-scheduled articles congratulating Putin's victory went up on Russian state-owned news sites and were promptly deleted. They give a good insight into what Putin's aims are.

    Read this thread



    Look at this fucking imperialism.
    Click to expand...


    Oof, I know we need to take everything with major grains of salt given that there's also a major information war going on and it's not impossible this is part of that, but this highlights what a bunch of people already realised, that if Ukraine don't survive this war, that's it for the country
     


    Non-graphic video of Grad fire on Kharkiv.
    Linkstrikesback said:
    Oof, I know we need to take everything with major grains of salt given that there's also a major information war going on and it's not impossible this is part of that, but this highlights what a bunch of people already realised, that if Ukraine don't survive this war, that's it for the country
    Click to expand...
    Well, some of the terminology is seemingly in line with Dugin's bullshit

     
    Last edited:
    Tlozbj said:
    The Kyiv Independent also gave an update on Russian losses per the Ministry of Defense

    Click to expand...

    The Casualties... General theories I`ve read in WW2 is that Soviet Union really didn`t care about causalities and just threw their troops at the enemy. With the supply lines and seemingly total lack of planning, it still seems be the case..
    ..

    Adding to this thread:
    This American Life just released their new episode and It`s on Vladimir Putin, A great listen to give you background on just exactly the type of figure he is and how he is viewed by the Average Russian .

    The section on Russian propaganda is utterly fascinating in a terrifying type of way.
    This American Life -> Stories about Vladimir Putin
     
    JazzPotatoes said:
    The problem for Russia is that this war is now going to cost them billions a day to maintain, and their economy has just been tanked.

    As far as we can tell, Putin's plan was to take Kyiv and install a puppet regime over the weekend, and call it a victory from there. Now his forces are being held up on multiple fronts, the vehicle losses are catastrophic, and it's become painfully obvious that even if Kyiv is taken, the Ukranians are going to keep fighting.

    If he does decide to keep fighting, it is going to absolutely ruin the Russian economy.
    Click to expand...
    You aren't wrong but would that give him a reason to escalate it and say it's because we're destroying his country's economy? I'm not going to lie, although I agree with what we are doing 100% of the way, I am aware of the track we could be on soon.
    Harina said:
    Staff Communication
    As events continue, please be mindful of antagonistic posting towards each other. Tensions will get high, but as a community, we must remember that all we can do is be supportive of each other as everyone is just dealing with this in their own way.

    Since we've had so many reports in this thread so far, if it gets to be too much, we will have to close the thread for a bit and give everyone a chance to cool down. We don't want to do this, because everyone needs a safe place to talk about these type of important/historical things, but will if we must. So please help by self regulating and rereading what you're about to press send on. Are you directly @ing someone in a negative light? Maybe delete that part. Is your source less than reputable? Maybe find another or two to replace and back it up. -blondkayvon, Harina, hologram, Rika, Squiddo
    Click to expand...
    Gonna be very frank here, if anyone directly came in here and defended Putin I'm not going to treat them respectfully lol. Those people don't need a safe space here. They can go to the breitbart comment section. Or the RT one if it's still up in their country lol
     
    I still believe both sides feed into the crisis. A solution or compromise to stop the war requires to understand both views. I was already attacked for that view in the General Discussion thread, please don't get this wrong. I'm not defending any military action taken by Putin, but as much as I'm freightened by these actions I also don't see any actions from the West to deescalate and stop this. This is not really new but lost in discussion with all the devastating pictures from Ukraine.

    I think this video published by the University of Chicago give a far better explanation of my point, so I like to share it here:

     
    Intoxicate said:
    I still believe both sides feed into the crisis. A solution or compromise to stop the war requires to understand both views. I was already attacked for that view in the General Discussion thread, please don't get this wrong. I'm not defending any military action taken by Putin, but as much as I'm freightened by these actions I also don't see any actions from the West to deescalate and stop this. This is not really new but lost in discussion with all the devastating pictures from Ukraine.

    I think this video published by the University of Chicago give a far better explanation of my point, so I like to share it here:

    Click to expand...

    If you don't see Western actions to de escalate this then, quite frankly, you're not looking.

    Diplomacy: every major Western power attempted extensive negotiations with Russia before the invasion. None of it changed Putin's plan, as it has since been made plain he always wanted to go to war.

    Economic sanctions: The US and European nations tried sanctioning specific Russian politicians to discourage Russia from continuing the war. Then they tried sanctioning oligarchs and Russian banks. Then they cut Russia off from SWIFT. Each and every one of these was an opportunity for Russia to look at the damage it is doing not only to Ukraine but also to itself, and to stop it's invasion.

    Instead, Russia has escalated things by deploying thermobarric weapons and committing war crimes by bombing cities indiscriminately.

    The only remaining option now is for the US and Europe to keep sending Ukraine supplies and equipment: which, lest we forget, are needed to stop Ukraine literally being taken off the map by Russia.

    Don't even try this "The west has been just as bad as Russia" logic - it's dishonest, and you deserved to get called out in the general topic of you really tried to use it there.
     
    Intoxicate said:
    I still believe both sides feed into the crisis. A solution or compromise to stop the war requires to understand both views. I was already attacked for that view in the General Discussion thread, please don't get this wrong. I'm not defending any military action taken by Putin, but as much as I'm freightened by these actions I also don't see any actions from the West to deescalate and stop this. This is not really new but lost in discussion with all the devastating pictures from Ukraine.

    I think this video published by the University of Chicago give a far better explanation of my point, so I like to share it here:

    Click to expand...

    Then what did Putin want? Did he want NATO or did he want to bring back the Soviet Union or even pre-1917 Russia? Because if you listen to what Putin says it's very clear the NATO bit was a scapegoat reason.

    The west has not been as bad as Russia. We've bent over backwards to cool tensions. But this KGB, egotistical maniac wants to see us destroyed. It takes a lot of privilege of living in peaceful and prosperous times to equate the sides. It's gross. And I know hating on our military and the west has been very trendy the last decade, I too shit on us, but I think some have allowed that to cloud their minds here.
     
    Intoxicate said:
    I still believe both sides feed into the crisis. A solution or compromise to stop the war requires to understand both views. I was already attacked for that view in the General Discussion thread, please don't get this wrong. I'm not defending any military action taken by Putin, but as much as I'm freightened by these actions I also don't see any actions from the West to deescalate and stop this. This is not really new but lost in discussion with all the devastating pictures from Ukraine.

    I think this video published by the University of Chicago give a far better explanation of my point, so I like to share it here:

    Click to expand...

    A compromise cannot exist in a invasion. This is not a civil war or a war over resources, this is a war over a country's right to exist. The invading part believes the invaded has no right to exist as a country and must be annexed info their own. While the invaded are fighting for their right to exist as a nation and to be able to determine their own future.

    Any "compromise" in such a scenario would leave the invaded as a sitting duck for a future attempt by the invader. Which in a way, is what is happening right now. The "compromise" in Donbass gave the perfect false flag for Putin to use. While letting Russia annex Crimea, has hardened the defense of Ukraine's south. Since it has permitted Russia to have a land and sea route that basically lets them cover all of said border.

    In addition, it is clear the invader will also not accept any type of compromise. The West tried diplomacy for weeks and sanctions to try and stop him, and it didn't work. Though, obviously, they wouldn't. Since one cannot negotiate with someone's who conditions are to leave the possible invadee and neighboring countried as sitting ducks. Even more when the invader's position makes no sense. They say they have security concerns about NATO's "expansion" to the east. Yet, their invasion and annexation plan with Ukraine and Belarus would make them border by land: Lithuania, Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, and Romaia; and have a shared sea with Turkey. If they are really worried by NATO "expansion", then their invasion makes no sense, as it would leave them at NATO's door.
     
    Abzeronow said:


    Fog of war and all that, but Russia bombing a Holocaust memorial looks real bad for them.
    Click to expand...


    I’m not surprised, Putin’s private army (Wagner group) consists of warcriminals and Neonazis.

    FM0i8YbWYAESWyG


    FM0i8YXXsAAwLoa




    informnapalm.org

    Russian neo-Nazis in the ranks of Wagner PMC

    One of the main slogans of Russian propaganda in mobilizing mercenaries for the war in the Donbas was “to fight fascism". But Russian neo-fascists were among those who answered the call.
    informnapalm.org


    en.respublica.lt

    Signs of Neo-Nazi Ideology Amongst Russian Mercenaries

    This research is done by Lukas Andriukaitis exclusively for Res Publica – Civic Resilience Center. Lukas Andriukaitis is an open source researcher and trainer, focusing on Kremlin disinformation and military involvement in conflicts around the globe. For the past several years he has focused on...
    en.respublica.lt en.respublica.lt
     
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    Intoxicate said:
    I still believe both sides feed into the crisis. A solution or compromise to stop the war requires to understand both views. I was already attacked for that view in the General Discussion thread, please don't get this wrong. I'm not defending any military action taken by Putin, but as much as I'm freightened by these actions I also don't see any actions from the West to deescalate and stop this. This is not really new but lost in discussion with all the devastating pictures from Ukraine.

    I think this video published by the University of Chicago give a far better explanation of my point, so I like to share it here:

    Click to expand...

    This person in the video at the end basically proposes Ukraine being a buffer state (chosen by the great powers, forget the Ukrainians having a choice in the matter) and then there wont be a direct eye to eye between the western powers and Russia. But.. it doesn't work. Ukraine cannot be a buffer state because it is nowhere near strong as either side. A buffer state next to Russia (or even the western powers if you argue that) would still be dominated by that power. Let's not pretend Russia didn't have a puppet in Yanukovych, so Ukraine was pretty much not a buffer state before but more or less a satellite state. I find this video perplexing as he downplays deaths of Ukranians as well.
     
    Western officials earlier today told NBC they estimate Russian losses at around 5,800. Which is actually quite close to what Ukraine's Ministry of Defense have said up until now.




    Though Nexta now claims, that Zelenskyy's office says that 9000 Russian soldiers have been killed. No link or image provided to the report, however. The number seems indeed inflated for actual "Kill in Action" soldiers. However, a possible probability for casualties (killed + wounded) and captured soldiers.

     
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    Russian state broadcaster Russia Today trying to hide articles where they (rightfully) called thermobaric weapons "devastating".
     
    0
    It's funny seeing a lot of Russia Today staff spent the last few days trying to convince everyone that they're not a propaganda machine for Putin while they're doing shit like this at the same time. Last week RT France also passed off a DNR/LNR propagandist as a journalist for their coverage of what's happening in Donbass, it was truly absurd and laughable
     
    Awena said:
    It's funny seeing a lot of Russia Today staff spent the last few days trying to convince everyone that they're not a propaganda machine for Putin while they're doing shit like this at the same time. Last week RT France also passed off a DNR/LNR propagandist as a journalist for their coverage of what's happening in Donbass, it was truly absurd and laughable
    Click to expand...
    www.cnn.com

    RT America ceases productions and lays off most of its staff

    RT America will cease productions and lay off most of its staff, according to a memo CNN obtained from T&R Productions, the production company behind the Russian state-funded network.
    www.cnn.com www.cnn.com

    I just saw this posted apparently.
     
    Yeah RT France is ceasing its operations too, they aired their last news broadcast yesterday afternoon followed by some old programs and that's it I think. Last night their website was still accessible (at least in france) but now it's gone as all their social accounts. I heard that staff will be paid 3 months salary and will be all laid off. RT France had many links with french far right so I really won't miss them
     
    LMAO at RT going off the air. Good riddance, they should be off the air even before the invasion with all their propagandistic outlandish lies.

    Even the staff you know...it's always bad when people lose their jobs, but when you are onboard with such a bad faith and malicious efforts you kinda should expect this outcome.
     
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    There was someone on Twitter live broadcasting the NPP battle from hacked security cameras. This war is crazy in how it's so much easier to watch than the Olympics were.
     
    Russia is really trying to check off the list of all the terrible things a person can conceivably do. If I woke up tomorrow to find that they had started shooting kittens out of canons, I would believe it right away.
     
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    Russia so far have taken Kherson, but have absolutely been hammered for it.

    Independent verification puts Russian losses more or less in line with the Ukrainian figures as well.
     
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