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Pre-Release Bayonetta 3 — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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Maronic03 said:
No way Nintendo doesn't make some kind of statement after this. Now that Kamiya made a comment, even as vague as this one, the scandal is just going to escalate from here.
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My guess is that as the publisher, Nintendo doesn't have to. They're the ones who help P* recognize their vision, and that largely falls in the avenue of signing the checks and general oversight.

No, this is entirely on Kamiya and P* to clear the air. How did Kamiya go from claiming Taylor as his waifu, to this?
 
I'm gonna be honest, and full respect to Hellena Taylor, but doing this kind of thing and outright trying to pull the "boycott if you care about people" emotional blackmail card, sits incredibly badly with me.

I'll wait until we have more information, but for now this absolutely doesn't change my buying intention here.
 
HockeyBird said:
I am I reading this correctly? The rates outlined in this document seem really low. Much lower than even $4000 offered to Hellena Taylor.
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Additional compensation are bonus payments VAs get based on the number of sessions they record, those were introduced after the SAG-AFTRA strike in 2016-2017

VA rates are typically $825 per 4 hour sessions according to this article



Edit: not sure why the link is coming out like this
 
TreIII said:
My guess is that as the publisher, Nintendo doesn't have to. They're the ones who help P* recognize their vision, and that largely falls in the avenue of signing the checks and general oversight.

No, this is entirely on Kamiya and P* to clear the air. How did Kamiya go from claiming Taylor as his waifu, to this?
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I agree that they don't exactly have to, but I still think they will ultimately choose to do so. That or they will pressure Platinum to do it themselves.
 
Skipper93653 said:
Is it just me or is Kamiya implying that Hellena is lying?
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Lmao this is just a trump tweet.

Also, while I do share Kamiya's general view of social media and will be willing to defend his "block whoever" attitude, the dude really didn't think this through.
It's one thing to block three people a day who ask "Ur fav game?!" from a funny rude videogame man, but it does seem more sinister when you keep doing that as people demand answers from the man who is near the top of the company that's been accused of not paying VA talent
 
On the one hand, there's definitely something Platinum/Nintendo/Sega/Kamiya isn't saying about Taylor. On the other hand, breaking NDA over a role snub is reckless to the point where I suspect Taylor may have more damning information about at least one of the other aforementioned parties.
TurtleRock said:
On that note, even more of a reason to unionize. British VA’s are going to continue to get shafted if they don’t unionize.
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I'm not really sure how VA unions work internationally, but Taylor and Hale are both in SAG-AFTRA.
 
Ramune said:
Very possible they’re talking about saying goodbye to the franchise personally.



“This vague subtweet is all I can say.” God this is tiring. A crumb of transparency, I beg.
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Probably NDAs, legal stuff, etc. i could see them either preparing an official statement or being legally bound to keep quiet.
 
Aether said:
Probably NDAs, legal stuff, etc. i could see them either preparing an official statement or being legally bound to keep quiet.
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Oh for sure, but he should probably keep quieter than this instead of doing what he’s currently doing. Twitter is a mess right now and I don’t think he’s helping, surely someone at Platinum is anxiously tapping him on the shoulder to wait until they’re ready and able to say something.
 
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Maronic03 said:
I agree that they don't exactly have to, but I still think they will ultimately choose to do so. That or they will pressure Platinum to do it themselves.
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They won’t unless something changes in the conversation that directly points to them. Even then they probably will keep quite unless it is a super big controversy. They won’t pressure PG to make a statement that’s on PG.

I’m not sure what people what Nintendo to do in this situation given the information we have currently.
 
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I don’t know how to feel about my pre-order now…

I hope she has more to show than just what she said. If she doesn’t, this will totally backfire on her more than it already is going to.

I feel bad about the amount offered, but I don’t know how many sessions and how many hours she would need to voice Bayo 3, as well as I don’t know what’s the “fair” amount to pay the main VA of your game.

So I’m just gonna hope that those involved offer us clarity, and that the actor (and all other actors) are paid what they deserve for all their training and effort.

But I feel like she exaggerated asking for boycott. First because the game is not only about her, even though her job on it was pretty important. And second because it’s not gonna do anything. If she didn’t ask for a boycott, those who felt bad enough for her would boycott anyway, but she’s not gonna convince the rest. We all know how these boycotts end up. So, I think asking for it kinda puts her in a bad light here. I think it would be equally effective if she just said what happened without the call.
 
Pringles said:
Additional compensation are bonus payments VAs get based on the number of sessions they record, those were introduced after the SAG-AFTRA strike in 2016-2017

VA rates are typically $825 per 4 hour sessions according to this article



Edit: not sure why the link is coming out like this
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At $825 per hour on average, that would come out to be a little over 19 hours for $4,000. Is 19 hours enough time to record all of the lines for one character? It seems low but then again, I'm always shocked by how short record sessions take. Often only a few days. So $4,000 doesn't seem too different from the industry standard but I think that's the main issue. Voice actors are paid like hourly workers. They aren't given large lump sums like typical Hollywood actors. If you only work a few dozen hours for a specific role, you are only paid for those few dozen hours based on standard hourly rates.
 
This looks really bad on Nintendo/Platinum's part. And a real shame with the game looking as good as it does.

That $4k offer has to be almost assuredly be an offer in the hope that she would decline because Hale got paid that in 2 days of working on the game. Paying the VA that dubs the protagonist of your game $4k is completely absurd.
 
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I guess the 89 curse it's not going to be the only problem for this game, I expect a good old metabombing at release now which is a shame.
 
As someone who is dating an actor I know actors are always underpaid what they're worth but I really feel like we do not have the entire story. I simply cannot wrap my head around them offering her 4k just to turn around and hire Jennifer Hale (who most definitely got more than 4k).
 
Man... everything this game needed.... I feel ashamed for such a low payment offer, but Taylor is not playing around. Doing this only now as the game approaches its realease is such a low blow. Ok, she did'nt get a good offer .... But we are not talking about working and not receiving anything. She said no, i wont be exploited.
The bad marketing this may bring to the table may end Bayo as a franchise. That's not just someone complaining over the internet. It's someone maybe destroying the labor of other people... many who have been working in this game for more than 5 years...
 
DecoReturns said:
56K on Twitter.

She’s got the stage now and I expect a response from Platinum or Nintendo. I wonder if other VA will join in too. That could help a bit
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“I wish the new actress all the best luck in the World, but she's not the voice of Bayonetta. I created that voice. She has no right to sign merchandise as Bayonetta..."
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Maybe they could not say this backhanded compliment on their stage either.
 
Notsowise said:
Man... everything this game needed.... I feel ashamed for such a low payment offer, but Taylor is not playing around. Doing this only now as the game approaches its realease is such a low blow. Ok, she did'nt get a good offer .... But we are not talking about working and not receiving anything. She said no, i wont be exploited.
The bad marketing this may bring to the table may end Bayo as a franchise. That's not just someone complaining over the internet. It's someone maybe destroying the labor of other people... many who have been working in this game for more than 5 years...
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Ehhhhhh.

Most people won’t give a shit about this honestly. Twitter/forums or whatever isn’t real life.
 
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Heruderu said:
I don’t know how to feel about my pre-order now…

I hope she has more to show than just what she said. If she doesn’t, this will totally backfire on her more than it already is going to.

I feel bad about the amount offered, but I don’t know how many sessions and how many hours she would need to voice Bayo 3, as well as I don’t know what’s the “fair” amount to pay the main VA of your game.

So I’m just gonna hope that those involved offer us clarity, and that the actor (and all other actors) are paid what they deserve for all their training and effort.

But I feel like she exaggerated asking for boycott. First because the game is not only about her, even though her job on it was pretty important. And second because it’s not gonna do anything. If she didn’t ask for a boycott, those who felt bad enough for her would boycott anyway, but she’s not gonna convince the rest. We all know how these boycotts end up. So, I think asking for it kinda puts her in a bad light here. I think it would be equally effective if she just said what happened without the call.
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The whole gaming industry is run on exploitation. This is just another example of it.

Very, very few games are free of this.
 
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I don't think this will affect sales. The worst thing she could have done was call for a boycott because there's nothing more flaccid and toothless than a #gamer boycott! But jokes aside, controversies often work to the company's benefit. It increases social engagement, more views on trailers, more discussion which ultimately results in more sales. The vast majority of people who will boycott were never going to buy the game anyway.

Gamers only really boycott when their enjoyment of the game is directly impacted and even then, it's less of a boycott and more people just aren't satisfied with the product so they stopped playing.
 
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someone should probably make a separate thread for this recent drama, it's big enough news.
 
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HockeyBird said:
At $825 per hour on average, that would come out to be a little over 19 hours for $4,000. Is 19 hours enough time to record all of the lines for one character? It seems low but then again, I'm always shocked by how short record sessions take. Often only a few days. So $4,000 doesn't seem too different from the industry standard but I think that's the main issue. Voice actors are paid like hourly workers. They aren't given large lump sums like typical Hollywood actors. If you only work a few dozen hours for a specific role, you are only paid for those few dozen hours based on standard hourly rates.
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If this is the case, Platinum was paying standard rates? This seems more like industry issue then.

No company is going to pay more than what the standard rates are.

Looks like the problem is that Voice Actors not getting properly paid based on the sucess of the game. Like royalties and other similar income. Just my 2 cents...

Like actors negotiate salary on ticket sales.
 
Bobo said:
As someone who is dating an actor I know actors are always underpaid what they're worth but I really feel like we do not have the entire story. I simply cannot wrap my head around them offering her 4k just to turn around and hire Jennifer Hale (who most definitely got more than 4k).
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Like others have said, and I certainly agree: the truth is that they probably wanted to recast Bayonetta with a bigger name attached, but "right of first refusal" means they had to offer the part to Taylor first.

Then when she balks because the price is obviously unfair and refuses, they can legally move on without her.

It's the same kind of bullshit that saw T.C. Carson ousted as God of War's Kratos. Even though he made that role his own, the studio tossed him aside in the name of "different direction with the character".
 
AR15mex said:
If this is the case, Platinum was paying standard rates? This seems more like industry issue then.

No company is going to pay more than what the standard rates are.

Looks like the problem is that Voice Actors not getting properly paid based on the sucess of the game. Like royalties and other similar income. Just my 2 cents...
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Sean Chiplock on twitter confirmed he got paid better for his role in Freedom Planet due to royalties then he did for voicing Revali in BotW1 and HW.
 
Heruderu said:
You mean the user reviews?
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yeah that's what metabombing is.
Btw all of this feels kind of petty and uncalled for, especially breaking NDA and asking for a boycott just because you didn't like the offer, even if you felt it was insulting. Like if she did work and then got paid less of what she got offered it would have made sense but here it just feels petty.
 
TreIII said:
Like others have said, and I certainly agree: the truth is that they probably wanted to recast Bayonetta with a bigger name attached, but "right of first refusal" means they had to offer the part to Taylor first.

Then when she balks because the price is obviously unfair and refuses, they can legally move on without her.

It's the same kind of bullshit that saw T.C. Carson ousted as God of War's Kratos. Even though he made that role his own, the studio tossed him aside in the name of "different direction with the character".
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She mentioned she auditioned again for the role right? That doesn't seem like something someone would have to do if they had right of first refusal.
 
AR15mex said:
If this is the case, Platinum was paying standard rates? This seems more like industry issue then.

No company is going to pay more than what the standard rates are.

Looks like the problem is that Voice Actors not getting properly paid based on the sucess of the game. Like royalties and other similar income. Just my 2 cents...

Like actors negotiate salary on ticket sales.
Click to expand...

Voice actors are notoriously underpaid. I think the average voice actor only makes like $30,000 a year and that's with talking on multiple roles in games, TV, commercials, etc. The pay per hour might be pretty decent but you're not always doing 8 hours of recording 5 days a week. A big disadvantage to voice actors is that they normally aren't marketing draws. Hollywood can pay out these big numbers to popular actors because they will bring in audiences. That isn't true for most voice actors. I think it's slightly different in Japan where voice actors do have a bit more celebrity but in the West, they're only really known to a small subset of the audience. You could swap out of the voice of a well known cartoon character and most people probably wouldn't even notice.
 
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Bobo said:
She mentioned she auditioned again for the role right? That doesn't seem like something someone would have to do if they had right of first refusal.
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Without knowing all the details of all the contracts and the behind the scenes of what happened, perhaps having her "reaudition" was their first attempt to get her to quit the role. When that didn't work they took advantage of the fact she's not union to offer her less then she got paid for Bayo 1-2 to get her to refuse the part.

Edit: Apparently she union, so perhaps they offered her 4k cause he role is a lot smaller then she realized. Hard to say until we get the full game.
 
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ILikeFeet said:
this won't kill it. Nintendo's desire not to make more will. that's what kept it alive in the first place
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To famiboards someone sneezing means the end of a franchise. Such a constant.


As for Hellena, if its really like she said i hope for the best for her.
 
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BassForever said:
Sean Chiplock on twitter confirmed he got paid better for his role in Freedom Planet due to royalties then he did for voicing Revali in BotW1 and HW.
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He got 2000-3000 Dollar per game. And let's be honest... BotW has.... what? 15 minutes of him talking as Revali, Teba and the Deku Tree together? Considering this, this is a way higher rate than Platinum offered Hellena Taylor for her talking Bayonetta for several hours of cutscenes.
 
Vookatos said:
Lmao this is just a trump tweet.

Also, while I do share Kamiya's general view of social media and will be willing to defend his "block whoever" attitude, the dude really didn't think this through.
It's one thing to block three people a day who ask "Ur fav game?!" from a funny rude videogame man, but it does seem more sinister when you keep doing that as people demand answers from the man who is near the top of the company that's been accused of not paying VA talent
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Yea it wasn't the best way to handle but it seems like he tripped off, so maybe there will something said next week
 
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Hauke_von_Arding said:
He got 2000-3000 Dollar per game. And let's be honest... BotW has.... what? 15 minutes of him talking as Revali, Teba and the Deku Tree together? Considering this, this is a way higher rate than Platinum offered Hellena Taylor for her talking Bayonetta for several hours of cutscenes.
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there is an interesting question, and that is that the salary is for hours of work sessions. But the salary is also not offered by the company, it is established by the VA Union.
So there is a minimum that they are obliged to pay her per hour, a minimum that is much higher than what she says if she really doubled many lines

if she really speaks a few lines (as the theory says that she was only going to make a cameo as the original bayonetta somewhere in the game), that number would fit.

 
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AllEchse said:
I think she would be told the amount of work they would hire her for.

Would make this seem like a tamper tantrum.
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This is my assumption as well. and based on what i saw in the latest trailer (HUGE SPOILER BTW) would make that era assumption more plausible
 
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