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Pre-Release The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom Pre-Release Discussion Thread

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They may have said fuck the overal timeline for BotW, but anyone who’s delved into the Creating a Champion book knows the massive amount of work put into the worldbuilding/lore of the game itself.

Wouldn’t be surprised at all if TotK has great payoffs for those who paid attention to that stuff in BotW.
 
Dark Cloud said:
This is disappointing to me. I’m gonna jump back into a game and the world is basically the same. It won’t feel new enough for me. The sky islands and underground are obviously great, but knowing Hyrule is basically the same as BotW is disappointing. I was hoping for some big changes to the world if you were going to reuse it.

It doesn’t need to be 100% new, but everything Zeltik has seen is near 1:1 isn’t going to make me have that same wonderment I had with BotW.

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ehh. I am not worried tbh, They deserve my trust more then any other dev team I know. Even if they reuse the land mass they will have a reason for it gameplay wise.

EDIT: that said we don't even know how far into the game the footage we saw up until now even was. For example the second teaser trailer has a scene with Link gliding down when suddenly a Stone Talos appears. You basically see nothing of the scenes we saw on Tuesday. It just seemed like a totally peaceful overworld without any changes. So it could be perspective but I think they just don't want to show off too much until we get a real blow out.
 
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manfromthedam said:
Am loving that discourse is finally picking up here <3.
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Nintendo is playing this kinda smart. They haven't shown much, and when they show something, it's a short thing too, but each time there's just stuff that leads to discussions.

You first get the "man so short" disappointement, then you start focusing, and then the questions come.
 
Pflaumenmus12 said:
ehh. I am not worried tbh, They deserve my trust more then any other dev team I know. Even if they reuse the land mass they will have a reason for it gameplay wise.
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Yeah, overanalyzing the little footage we have right now can be fun but I see no point in getting worried about it this close to release. What they've shown of the game so far looks great, if the rest doesn't I'll have enough time to be disappointed in May 2023.
 
There is no doubt they holding stuff back, its just a matter of how much. Like if the only thing they are holding back is an expansive underground section (like Elden Ring's), would that be enough?

Because they are reusing the over wold, I was really hoping they would change it up more than we've seen. I was hoping for huge changes like Gerudo Desert getting flooded or Lake Hylia getting drained. So far there just seems to be a lot of minor changes. I'm still hoping the Hyrule get expanded as well so we can visit more islands or explore further past the Gerudo desert.

I'm also hoping for massive changes to how we explore and traverse. Swimming is a big one as it opens the entire underwater sections of the map. Climbing looking the same was a slight disappointment for me because I was hoping for a more fast paced type of climbing like in Monster Hunter Rise. Hookshot/ grappling hook has been fan favorite returning item and having that could really change how we traverse the overworld. Horses and other mounts should be summonable at any time.

Kinda of an unrelated but I'm hoping for permanent upgrades to climbing/walking/swimming speeds. Honestly constantly equipping a whole set of armor just to run slightly faster at night or climb slightly faster gets rather annoying.
 
I'm more and more convinced that the overworld, while very similar to BotW at the beginning of the game, will be undergoing major changes as the game progresses. That's why we haven't seen major changes to the overworld so far. There must be story reasons that they don't want to reveal just yet or not at all before the game releases.
 
takriel said:
I'm more and more convinced that the overworld, while very similar to BotW at the beginning of the game, will be undergoing major changes as the game progresses. That's why we haven't seen major changes to the overworld so far. There must be story reasons that they don't want to reveal just yet or not at all before the game releases.
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Maybe this game is all about reversing time, and rebuilding hyrule to its former glory before the calamity.
 
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Hermii said:
Maybe this game is all about reversing time, and rebuilding hurdle to its former glory before the calamity.
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I'm sure that time is a central theme both gameplay and story-wise.

What I don't understand yet is how come we see all these fallen island rocks in the overworld that Link can likely use to ascend to the sky islands and perhaps restore them by doing so. Why and when did they fall in the first place if they weren't there in BotW?

And assuming TotK takes place right after the events in BotW, how come the Bokoblins have these long horns all of a sudden? Seems to me that they must either stem from the distant past or future.
 
Naturally bummed at the game still being so far off, + the lack of a big meaty trailer to go nuts for, but that's fine. Game looks super cool, I fully trust Nintendo to know what they are doing with it.
Just let me give Link even longer hair and gorgeous new Gerudo clothing and I am all set
 
I think Nintendo is playing this very, very smart. I have a hunch...

They show 'little' but we get the idea that the game is basically the same because the substance they DO show us is big but takes place on a layer that has already been made before: BotW.

But we need to remember that this is basically a unique situation for a Nintendo game. A sequel taking place in the same world as before... On first sight.

They could basically show us an entire world that already exists now because they use the same engine and obfuscate the other world this way and reserve that for a later time.

Yes I have faith Nintendo will blow us away again all over again, they have though about how to do it again and this is how they will do it.
there's a whole new world we haven't seen yet.

-----

5 years people, there's more than meets the eye and I'm willing to do a big bet.
The more they show these kind of trailers the more convinced I am that they are trying to make us believe that this is everything.
 
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the changes to death mountain are some of the most intriguing things we know so far
  • all the lava is gone, meaning there's new areas on the surface surrounding that weren't accessible previously
  • it's erupting malice - for gameplay purposes, there'll probably be some sort of quest, story event, or perhaps even a dungeon to complete, to remove it
  • afterwards you can probably explore the inside of the volcano since likely there's still no lava or malice in your way to stop you
  • potentially - if removing the malice doesn't return the lava flow - then another quest to make the volcano active again?
  • also the implications this entire thing has on goron city are huge
 
SpaceGodzilla said:
I can't belive it took me three years to think of this, but what the fuck happened to the divine beasts?
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I understand the apprehension but I don't see the point of being preemptively disappointed by the game from what's in these teasers. They're all purposely cut to show snippets, tell a story between the three of them, and tease mystery. 'Worried' is not what I personally feel, 'anxious', maybe, to see more.

I think if someone wants to avoid the sense of familiarity completely with a sequel, that's fair. I can understand being disappointed by the premise of the game, maybe someone wants a sequel where Link and Zelda just leave Hyrule completely to visit Labrynna or wherever.

I don't think that will speak to how the final product will turn out, though. This game still needs to be a fun piece of media that has been thoroughly playtested. There still needs to be dungeons, mini-dungeons, quests, bosses, NPCs,, etc. that have to be shoved into, on top of, or under this map. I think whatever passing familiarity on the surface will disappear as soon as, let's say, we enter the Death Mountain Crater, pull up the Akkala CItadel to find a cavern underneath, climb an icy mountain in the sky, or visit a small continent to the east. I am so, so curious about the pacing of the game.

The Zelda team is tuned into criticism of their games and are aware of the risk they are taking by setting their long-awaited sequel in the same overworld as the previous game. This is the same team that pivoted and (over)corrected after the reception to Skyward Sword by slowly stepping away from Zelda conventions starting with Link Between Worlds. Creating a Champion and the GDC talks show how many ideas they have scrapped that are being brought back in this sequel. I think being able to reuse assets enables a lot of their ambition and revisiting these ideas.

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If they wanted to just release another expansion DLC and make guaranteed money off the millions of BotW copies out there, I'm sure they could have. But the scope of this game has transcended a DLC expansion. They are committing to building this game for the Switch and with that comes the stronger hardware that the Switch has in comparison to the Wii U, enough to fulfill a vision of a seamless overworld between the Sky and Surface.

Reversing time and phasing through surfaces are confirmed mechanics. These would be good enough as runes for puzzles but it's starting to become clear that these are major elements of how we are traversing and rebuilding this world. It was already mentioned here that by reversing the flow of time of an island chunk, we're returning it to the Sky as it was in the past and possible reassembling the pieces of an ancient kingdom.

Shrines and towers are gone. Remember that these were pivotal elements of exploration in the original game, seeing a glow or tower from a distance guided traversal by providing an easy visual landmark.

Removing these means the overworld has already changed, think of how many little overworld puzzles and scenarios were designed around accessing a tower or shrine. Stables are still around but are less visible than towers from the ground, though it's a nice confirmation that some mechanics like horses and inns are back.

We can see they've created new landmarks that are visible from the Sky like the glowing green geoglyphs. A Nazca lines kind of landmark makes so much sense since it was speculated that "the Nazca people created them to be seen by deities in the sky."

Switch_TLOZ_TOTK_screen_09.jpg
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I'll stop now before I get into a speculative tizzy.

tl;dr I am very excited for this game not because of blind faith, but because I have enjoyed the recent work of the Zelda team, who have been receptive to feedback about their games in the past, and the hints being dropped from these teasers suggest some ambitious concepts
 
I like the idea that we must remove the majority of the ground layer of Hyrule, to expose another kingdom underneath it. This underground kingdom must then be cleared of malice to explore properly.

Imagine physically removing ALL of Death Mountain, would that be logistically possible?
 
maidhhc said:
I like the idea that we must remove the majority of the ground layer of Hyrule, to expose another kingdom underneath it. This underground kingdom must then be cleared of malice to explore properly.

Imagine physically removing ALL of Death Mountain, would that be logistically possible?
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Didn't Minish Cap have a vacuum cleaner? It needs a bigger bag.
 
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Dark Cloud said:
Wow. Reminder to not say anything again.
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If this is a reaction to my post, I would point you to the paragraph where I empathize with the initial disappointment of seeing a reused overworld and agree that an alternative sequel in a new land could've been a valid concept. I'm just using that as a springboard for talking about the game's direction (which I wanted to talk about, anyway), and that whether or not the final product can do enough to overturn the first impression.

If you feel that this is freezing your ability to talk about your expectations for the game, then I apologize. But that isn't my intention.

(I also... didn't intend for my post to be a response to you specifically. I'm answering a common sentiment.)
 
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maidhhc said:
I like the idea that we must remove the majority of the ground layer of Hyrule, to expose another kingdom underneath it. This underground kingdom must then be cleared of malice to explore properly.

Imagine physically removing ALL of Death Mountain, would that be logistically possible?
Click to expand...
Like in Katamari? Well, maybe technically possible but I'd be surprised if this game is about destroying Hyrule.
 
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Irene said:
I put together some things I'd love to see, in order of what I think is most likely:

  • Sick arm powers - More or less guaranteed, since it was showed off in Teaser 2. I think the game has as much arm powers as the Slate had powers. I think the teleporting up to the sky islands is one of the powers.
  • Zonai prescence - I think this is a big one. The hand is by many theorists believed to be of Zonai origin, and both the ruins explored in Teaser 1 as well as some of the architecture in Teaser 2 I think has a similar feel to the confirmed Zonai ruins in BotW, like Typhlo Ruins and the Lomelei Labyrinths.. I think they're gonna be what the Sheikah were to BotW.
  • Dual weapon wielding - The flamethrower shield kinda hinted at this maybe being a think that could appear, or at least the introduction of shields that also functions as weapons. How dope wouldn't it be to try to manage 2 weapons at once to get the upper hand in combat?
  • Exciting air traversal - This is something that keeps me awake at night. How will the game handle air traversal? Surely we won't be sloooowly paragliding between islands? I'm not sure where I stand regarding the introduction of straight-up flying. But I think the game might have something cool up its sleeve.
  • A weapon wheel - A small QoL thing that I think could make switching weapons less cumbersome.
  • Poes, redeads, skulltulas, like-likes floormasters and darknuts, etc. - The enemy in Teaser 2 looked a lot like a like-like to me, so I think more enemies will return. If the game goes underground, maybe to some spooky areas, I think redeads might be there..
  • A story arc and plot beats - This one I'm uncertain of. Since there has to be some kind of narrative framework for the game, and they don't have the flashback schtick to fall back on, I believe there might be a more fleshed-out "current" story than BotW had, but we'll see.
  • Skill tree - I'd love this personally, I think a spin on the skill tree concept could be cool. It feels like it could be a natural evolution of the Spirit Orbs. Gathering stuff for the arm and being able to upgrade not only hearts and stamina but also enhance powers, or enable faster climbing, or any other things that clothing and also food stood for in BotW. But not very likely I feel like.
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So I wrote this back in October, and would like to comment on it and revise it a bit in light of the new TotK trailer, as well as add new stuff.

In terms of sick arm powers, I would like to say that I would love one of the arm powers to be a hookshot, another thing that was on the cutting room floor of BotW. Naturally, limit it a lot so it doesn't become OP or cheese-y, but the feeling of going slow-mo in midair, latching onto a tree, and pull yourself towards it, out of the slow-mo sounds so cool.
Zonai presence - yep, this is gonna be a thing, as the new trailer has some imagery, mainly from the dragon ouroboros in the trailer, and the large door pattern.
Dual weapon wielding is still something I want to see more of, but this teaser of course didn't elaborate on it.
What we did see though, was exciting air traversal, in the form of the bird glider. I'm still giddy over it, it looks beyond cool. Like a hookshot, it would naturally have to be somewhat limited, so that you can't just fly around however you want. Still very, very excited about this.
I hope to see a weapon wheel, some old enemies returning, and I do think, and hope, that we will in fact get a story arc and plot beats. The story seems to be a bit heavier and more prominent this time around, what with the title referring to what might be story elements. Or maybe it's just the teasers focusing on it?
And please give us a skill tree, I would love this as a more intricate and fleshed out way of powering up hearts, stamina and other attributes.

And I wand to add some more things that I would love to see.
I really would love to see much more elaborate weapon systems and mechanics. Let us forge and customise and power up weapons by using materials, and let us take care of them and hone them, making them trusted companions rather than disposable junk. If they're keeping weapon durability, there's so much more the game can do to make the system more layered. Oh, and it would be cool to have a meter that shows how much durability there's left, as a QoL thing.
Something cool that I also highly suspect will appear, is clothing combination. Combining various clothing and be able to use attributes from both of them. Maybe there will be marketplaces with tailors, that will serve as specialised shops that can combine and customise clothing for the optimal armor.
If new weapons will be added, would love to see shurikens, a cool weapon I've always loved in games. I could imagine them working like the boomerang in Wind Waker, being able to target multiple enemies at once. Can you imagine doing this, while landing a crit on the last enemy before it breaks? Awesome!
Last but not least, UFO's. I think UFO's could serve the same purpose as dragons did in BotW, objects in the sky that are just there, at special times, maybe nighttime, and have you hear music and look up and go.. whoa!!
 
Honestly, the one thing keeping me happy/sane about this game at the moment is that I was fully on the "where are the TOWNS / content" team before BotW and it ended up completely blowing away all expectations I could have ever had and being the Zelda game I had wanted for two decades.

I had only one desire for a BotW sequel - a brand new overworld map - and not getting that would be super disappointing, but after the experience of BotW I don't trust their marketing and I do trust the dev team. So why bother worrying?

The one thing I just don't think they might have taken into account is how much more time people have spent in this Hyrule than other games. BotW so engaging that I, like many others, have well over 250 hours in there over three or more playthroughs. I know it back to front. When the BotW DLC came out, I found it disappointing because it didn't add more of what I liked most about the base game - exploration of the new. So that trap is definitely there for them to fall into but you just have to trust that genius-level designers like this are aware of it.
 
I think there’s a lot of ways that the overworld could change that are being obscured. One idea is that they use the time shift stone idea from skyward sword. As you progress you might be able to open up “tears” in time. Imagine a stretch of gerudo desert becoming an ocean with a living leviathan. There’s also a bunch of destroyed towns in the game, create a tear to the past and now you have a brand new town.

I also think some of the hesitation about reusing the overworld comes from the assumption that the overworld will take up most of the explorable land or that you’ll be playing in it for most of the game. If the sky and underground are equal or greater in size than the overworld, does it matter if they bring the overworld back?
 
Pflaumenmus12 said:
I seriously think that the style they chose for the cover is the best Link ever looked. Absolutely stunning artwork. Really curious to see the armor variety.

BotW had lots of cool stuff.
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Bokoblin head and nothing else, going Captain Boko-Underpants like in BotW.
 
Rubbersoul said:
I think there’s a lot of ways that the overworld could change that are being obscured. One idea is that they use the time shift stone idea from skyward sword. As you progress you might be able to open up “tears” in time. Imagine a stretch of gerudo desert becoming an ocean with a living leviathan. There’s also a bunch of destroyed towns in the game, create a tear to the past and now you have a brand new town.

I also think some of the hesitation about reusing the overworld comes from the assumption that the overworld will take up most of the explorable land or that you’ll be playing in it for most of the game. If the sky and underground are equal or greater in size than the overworld, does it matter if they bring the overworld back?
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I think that "changes to a place you already know" aren't that interesting to me and probably a lot of people. That game design paradigm didn't work for me in Link Between Worlds - I didn't like already knowing the layout of where everything would be. That was a major negative for that game. Hell, I even found exploring the Dark World in LttP itself boring, because I already fundamentally knew the layout. If this game's hook is "ooh, let's see what's changed about THIS place!" then that's not gonna work for me.

If the sky islands and underground are 66% of the game, then I think it's fair to say it doesn't matter half as much or maybe at all that the base overworld is the same, but it's still a negative compared to it being a new region because you're obviously going to spend time there.
 
I'm also getting the feeling that the overworld will see massive changes as the story progresses. That in itself serves as an extremely tantalizing reward for players- restore this section to access a brand new region to explore. Kinda like DQ7 of all things, when you solve the crisis in the past you now in the present have a brand new island or continent to explore.

I wonder if you'll basically be raising up the "land" to expose the ancient buried kingdom underneath. Maybe the story here is that before Skyloft came down and the land was settled by Hylians there was an ancient race of Zonai who lived there, so their land and kingdom got literally buried under sky rocks and it's now your job to lift up all of those sky rocks to uncover the ancient kingdom underneath, or else the vengeful Zonai deity will go apeshit on your world (or summon Ganondorf more likely)
 
Phendrift said:
They may have said fuck the overal timeline for BotW, but anyone who’s delved into the Creating a Champion book knows the massive amount of work put into the worldbuilding/lore of the game itself.

Wouldn’t be surprised at all if TotK has great payoffs for those who paid attention to that stuff in BotW.
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It would kinda be frustrating to have so much lore but never used. So much mysteries in Botw, we need this direct sequel to address some of them.
 
Phendrift said:
They may have said fuck the overal timeline for BotW, but anyone who’s delved into the Creating a Champion book knows the massive amount of work put into the worldbuilding/lore of the game itself.

Wouldn’t be surprised at all if TotK has great payoffs for those who paid attention to that stuff in BotW.
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It still explicitly connects to OoT and SS with the direct, unambiguous references to Ruto, Nabooru, Hylia, and Fi, though.

That said, that's something I think holds BotW's lore back. I don't get why they had to reference those figures as historical when the rest of the game just uses names like Malin and Tingel in a very ambiguous manner. I actually wish BotW was fully disconnected from the original timeline.
 
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Pflaumenmus12 said:
mainstream recognition of BotW styled Link surely played a role too.
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Still, I hope they don't standardize the blue tunic for the future just because BotW was so big. Not to go back to the green tunic and pointy hat either, but they should give him many different designs rather than stick to one. The blue tunic was so popular because it was different, not because it should be a new standard.
 
The time from September 13th to May 12th is shorter then from June 2016 to March 2017...

I say this because realizing this made me remember that the wait for BotW wasn't that long after the blow out. Kinda flew by honestly.
 
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Pflaumenmus12 said:
mainstream recognition of BotW styled Link surely played a role too.
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Yeah it's explicitly to market the game as a sequel with the same character. The title and art style don't immediately communicate that. It'd be obvious to us but not everyone.

Consider how many folks see Link with his hair down in the toga and ask 'is that a different Link?'. The upgraded Champion's Tunic and tied back hair make that crystal clear. Such is marketing.

Quillion said:
Still, I hope they don't standardize the blue tunic for the future just because BotW was so big. Not to go back to the green tunic and pointy hat either, but they should give him many different designs rather than stick to one. The blue tunic was so popular because it was different, not because it should be a new standard.
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They will milk the Champion's Tunic imagery since the game is popular, but they still use the Twilight Princess Link design in a lot of Nintendo merchandising because that's recognized as a prototypical Link design.

The concept art suggests they had many many different designs for Link. Who knows, maybe we'll get the motorcycle jacket.
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Serif said:
Yeah it's explicitly to market the game as a sequel with the same character. The title and art style don't immediately communicate that. It'd be obvious to us but not everyone.

Consider how many folks see Link with his hair down in the toga and ask 'is that a different Link?'. The upgraded Champion's Tunic and tied back hair make that crystal clear. Such is marketing.


They will milk the Champion's Tunic imagery since the game is popular, but they still use the Twilight Princess Link design in a lot of Nintendo merchandising because that's recognized as a prototypical Link design.

The concept art suggests they had many many different designs for Link. Who knows, maybe we'll get the motorcycle jacket.
4aac92d0461fc4a35ae461374a7f6bf7.jpg
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What I mean is that they shouldn't use a blue tunic for future games after (or chronologically before) the "Wild Saga". It will become every bit as "tired" as the green tunic before it if it becomes standard.

Also, I wish they used the green-dyed Wild Cap and Hylian Tunic from BotW instead of Twilight Princess Link for "traditional" material. That actually looks like a good progression on the traditional green tunic.
 
Heron said:
I think that "changes to a place you already know" aren't that interesting to me and probably a lot of people. That game design paradigm didn't work for me in Link Between Worlds - I didn't like already knowing the layout of where everything would be. That was a major negative for that game. Hell, I even found exploring the Dark World in LttP itself boring, because I already fundamentally knew the layout. If this game's hook is "ooh, let's see what's changed about THIS place!" then that's not gonna work for me.

If the sky islands and underground are 66% of the game, then I think it's fair to say it doesn't matter half as much or maybe at all that the base overworld is the same, but it's still a negative compared to it being a new region because you're obviously going to spend time there.
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That wasn’t what I was talking about….
I’m talking about taking land that wasn’t used for anything in botw and sending it back hundreds of thousands of years into the past until it’s its own thing. You wouldn’t be able to recognize anything. For instance, you tear a piece of the Faron jungle into the past and now it’s a high tech city. You tear a piece of gerudo desert into the past and now it’s an ocean that you can explore underwater. Completely different, it’s not a remix.
 
Rubbersoul said:
That wasn’t what I was talking about….
I’m talking about taking land that wasn’t used for anything in botw and sending it back hundreds of thousands of years into the past until it’s its own thing. You wouldn’t be able to recognize anything. For instance, you tear a piece of the Faron jungle into the past and now it’s a high tech city. You tear a piece of gerudo desert into the past and now it’s an ocean that you can explore underwater. Completely different, it’s not a remix.
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If you won't be able to recognize anything, why not make it a whole new area?
 
Quillion said:
Also, I wish they used the green-dyed Wild Cap and Hylian Tunic from BotW instead of Twilight Princess Link for "traditional" material. That actually looks like a good progression on the traditional green tunic.
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Yeah, it's a cool look.

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If they want to market with a default undyed armor, I really like the look of the full Hylian set, with the mix of red and green. I want official artwork for this !

custom_hylian_tunic_breath_of_the_wild_link_amiibo_by_pixelcollie_db97xwp-pre.jpg


Rubbersoul said:
That wasn’t what I was talking about….
I’m talking about taking land that wasn’t used for anything in botw and sending it back hundreds of thousands of years into the past until it’s its own thing. You wouldn’t be able to recognize anything. For instance, you tear a piece of the Faron jungle into the past and now it’s a high tech city. You tear a piece of gerudo desert into the past and now it’s an ocean that you can explore underwater. Completely different, it’s not a remix.
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This was what I wanted from the SS Timeshift Stones... what a brilliant idea. Essentially the same as exploring a new continent but you're restoring it piece by piece.

I think this is all tied with (a) the cloud barrier that the dragons fly through in the first game and (b) the Lens of Truth, its relation with the Shiekah and the eye imagery in these trailers, and how it can hide entire locations from view.
 
Serif said:
Yeah, it's a cool look.

5c4cfb2125f14.jpg


If they want to market with a default undyed armor, I really like the look of the full Hylian set, with the mix of red and green. I want official artwork for this !

custom_hylian_tunic_breath_of_the_wild_link_amiibo_by_pixelcollie_db97xwp-pre.jpg



This was what I wanted from the SS Timeshift Stones... what a brilliant idea. Essentially the same as exploring a new continent but you're restoring it piece by piece.

I think this is all tied with (a) the cloud barrier that the dragons fly through in the first game and (b) the Lens of Truth, its relation with the Shiekah and the eye imagery in these trailers, and how it can hide entire locations from view.
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Yeah, the Hylian set is also great. I also really love the classic Knight look without helmet he sports in the 2016 trailer!

Personally I'm tired of the Champion's Tunic. I always use it in-game because I love it, but the charm of BotW was that everything was new and the Toga design gives me the same vibes.
 
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