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What do you mean, the next 3D Mario just got its final trailer yesterday /s
Seriously though they gave Link a freakin long jump
Seriously though they gave Link a freakin long jump
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Why would they start in 2019 officially? That's a really long time for the brunt of the core team to just sit around. Odyssey went gold much earlier than the game's October 2017 release date (I think June-ish 2017) .
Its development cycle really shouldn't be much different than comparable titles: Splatoon 3 or TotK. The team(s) have been working on games for a long time; the question is probably if the work has led to different or multiple games.
Christo750
Source of the Right Arm
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I wish we at least got DLC kingdoms. I'm hungry for more Mario Odyssey. Not just another 3D Mario; I want Odyssey 2. Bowser's Fury was great but it feels like 3D World's moveset didn't gel with it entirely.
entut1
Bob-omb
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The legend has spoken @LukasManak22
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
I don't think there was any given indication when Odyssey went gold.
Koizumi just said along the reveal during Switch Presentation that:
"Development on Super Mario Odyssey is considerably finished, so producer Yoshiaki Koizumi wants people to get their hands on it. But since the release isn’t close, Nintendo didn’t offer Mario as playable demo."
When the game was revealed all footage was displayed at a native 720p up until E3 2017 play demos when the game was also 720p, on release in October it was higher so I pretty much doubt that it went gold as early as people assume.
As I said posts above, I feel it's pretty likely that the Bowser's Fury is a leftover from the next 3D Mario game that was scrapped. In 2019 they started again, it could very well be early 2019 or even sometime in 2018.
I don't think dev cycle of Splatoon 3 or TotK is anything to go by.
Octo Expansion shipped in mid 2018, Splatoon 2 was getting updates too. Not to mention that the game in some aspects in based on the results of the final Splatfest in 2019. TotK got delayed (once publicly), internally after pandemic definitely even more. But when you consider that Tokyo is also making 2D game and (likely) utilizing internal EPD engine which they never worked with, their absense is not that surprising, they just lost some time with something that never came to be. Once their knew it would not make much sense to release it for this Switch, they are just saving it for the next platform.
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It is very much possible, that said "leaker" only knew about Sonic Frontier and made up Mario Odyssey 2 to get more attention. It happens quite often. Not saying that it has to be true, but that "Game Survey" Story sounded suspect then and it still does now.
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I believe that prototype was something Nintendo worked on after 3D World that found a repurpose -- not something they spent significant time after Odyssey.
My point is that Splatoon and Zelda were on similar timelines and managed to release intermediate expansions and still hit earlier sequel target dates - reiterating how immediate game development resumes after consumer release dates.
Presumably all projects were delayed. The Legend of Zelda was obviously announced way earlier and had to throw out a date as an appetizer to BOTW fans who needed a reason to keep the system in high regard. But conjecture surrounding development at Tokyo is about whether they had to reorganize and rebuild teams in order to support a Mario game and a potential DK game concurrently.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
So you think they are working on new Mario ever since the late 2017?
There were some chances in Tokyo that I noticed, for example Motokura being the Producer on All Stars, he never was a producer on anything before that. That would mean that the next 3D Mario would have 3 Producers (Koizumi, Motokura, Hayashida) but I don't think it will be all of them. The situation with DK will be similar to Splatoon where Aya Kyokogu is not involved with Splatoon at all.
That leak from 2018 mentions Hayashida at EPD10, which was correct (Development Support Mario Maker 2) but it's unlikely to me they would move him from 3D Mario fully, however Hayashida was also Assistant Director on DK Jungle Beat which could led him being more involved with the new 2D DK game and not Mario. But this talk is more for a first party thread discussion.
Djehuty
Koopa
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Considering it was removed it was 100% cut content and not an Easter egg.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
I mean it was still part of the japanese advertisement on the map roughly just month before launch.
This Super Mario Odyssey Ad Is Hiding A Very Big Secret
With just a little over a month left to Super Mario Odyssey’s launch on Nintendo Switch, advertisements have started to appear at underground subway stations in Japan. See anything unusual in…
nintendosoup.com
That would seem like super late cut, nothing is presented in the game files. However the actual Isle Delfino icon could still be seen on the globe slightly. Whatever it was I really doubt it was planned as a full kingdom.
Djehuty
Koopa
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It’s a shame it isn’t in the game personally it would have been cool.I mean it was still part of the japanese advertisement on the map roughly just month before launch.
This Super Mario Odyssey Ad Is Hiding A Very Big Secret
With just a little over a month left to Super Mario Odyssey’s launch on Nintendo Switch, advertisements have started to appear at underground subway stations in Japan. See anything unusual in…
That would seem like super late cut, nothing is presented in the game files. However the actual Isle Delfino icon could still be seen on the globe slightly. Whatever it was I really doubt it was planned as a full kingdom.
I just think odyssey was super over ambitious for Nintendo at the time which is why I would want a sequel personally, a lot of stuff seems rushed, cut back or out of place. I really want a totk like sequal that could make it realize it’s full potential.
entut1
Bob-omb
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Such a mystery really. Maybe it was a little kingdom but they cut it because they didn't have enough time to deliver the game on deadline? We know Toad Town and a larger cloud kingdom were conceptualized but did not make it to the game. I think the Ruined Kingdom also almost got shafted entirely. Several of the 3D Mario games can't help but be a bit rushed in dev (blue coins in Sunshine, several reused layouts with a few modifications in 3D Land, Galaxy 1's countless Comet events...).I mean it was still part of the japanese advertisement on the map roughly just month before launch.
This Super Mario Odyssey Ad Is Hiding A Very Big Secret
With just a little over a month left to Super Mario Odyssey’s launch on Nintendo Switch, advertisements have started to appear at underground subway stations in Japan. See anything unusual in…
That would seem like super late cut, nothing is presented in the game files. However the actual Isle Delfino icon could still be seen on the globe slightly. Whatever it was I really doubt it was planned as a full kingdom.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
They announced the date more than 4 months before, at that point during development all the content is pretty much locked in. I haven't seen Cloud Kingdom to be bigger in concepts, in fact I think it was always planned to be this small. Ruined is probably the one that got cut content as some sort.
I wouldn't call these bit rushed, as basically all of Nintendo games has some sort of cut content as like any other game. It's impossible to include everything you want and something just does not work as you intended.
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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I think having two games in development concurrently, as in the possible 2D DK and the next 3D Mario, would extend the development of the latter. The same way not everyone at Retro was working on Metroid Prime 4 until Remastered was done.
TotK and Splatoon 3 had a fairly bigger development time than their predecessors so the same thing happening to 3D Mario wouldn't be something hard to happen.
Tbh I can still see this game being cross-gen, even if wasn't on full production until 2019. If anything because Switch was setting the world on fire when it was started while Wii U was already a failure when Odyssey started development, so they always knew it would be for the next console.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
I mean Zelda is Zelda and Splatoon had many new hires but still a lot of people went to seemingly work on EPD10. Even Amano was not a director of this one, and development certainly have not started just after release of 2.
While it can certainly be cross-gen, EPD has to have at least some new first party exclusive title that is a system seller regardless of how better the game could sold if also released on Switch 1. EPD4 launch title can be anythting but probably not really a system seller. Mario Kart maybe? Altough that would make a bigger sense as a launch window title. EPD Tokyo as a selling point for a new system makes a ton of sense, even if they are losing sales from not releasing Switch 1 version, at the end of the day they have to move units of new console somehow. Maybe EPD1 will show up with something, if they are now internal dev team.
entut1
Bob-omb
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I remember a concept art of Bowser and Mario fighting at sunset at least, would've been cool. Maybe the Cloud thing was something I made up in my mind, but I'm pretty sure Toad Town was indeed conceptualized but did not make it to the final game because it was cut.
Bowser Sr.
Bob-omb
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- He Him
I wouldn't go as far as to say "it was cut". The Artbook shows us alot of material, both early conceptualizations and final production art. Not every doodle or every idea represented in it are "things that were gonna happen but got cut to make up for time" or what not.
Tamantayoshi
Bob-omb
I'm assuming a new kind of 3D Mario game is gonna be a launch title for Switch 2 next year.
TheGreatMightyPoo
Like Like
Hopefully it’s not being made.
First game was fun but lacked focus.
First game was fun but lacked focus.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
The fact that something like Toad Toad had a concept art does not really mean it was cut. BOTW had bunch of concept arts that just didn't made it to the game as it was well before the actual development, as with any other game.
Sumio Mondo
Lynchian
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At this point, I'm expecting the next Mario on the next Nintendo system, the Virtual Man.
entut1
Bob-omb
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LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
Well, this is not endicating cut at all. They mention in early development it included locals and "initial rough sketches". This is not the "it was cut because of time" situation.
LukasManak22
who the fuck is that
entut1
Bob-omb
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they're in two physically separate buildings tho in two separate towns
I know this is a joke.
Meelow
Koopa
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It's being saved as a Switch 2 launch title. Nintendo is going to want to launch a big title with the system and the fact that the Mario movie probably launched Mario into even more of a successful series then it is now its going to be a wild launch.
I also believe it will be an open world like title. Bowser's fury was made for a reason so that but much bigger with Odyssey like gamrplay (and not 3D world) is very likely.
I also believe it will be an open world like title. Bowser's fury was made for a reason so that but much bigger with Odyssey like gamrplay (and not 3D world) is very likely.
entut1
Bob-omb
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I do wonder if we can expect BOTW levels of ambition. BOTW was made by a thousand people, and Mario's dev team is three times less. Bowser's Fury's entire map is like, more than 10 times smaller than the BOTW one. What do you think? Will they take help from another subsidiary like NST or Monolith for this?
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Meelow
Koopa
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They will probably ask for help. However, I don't see Nintendo doing anything crazy with the physics engine like they did with BOTW/TOTK and if they do they can use a modified version of it (think of it like how Ocarina of Time used a modified version of the Mario 64 engine).
And Nintendo doesn't necessarily need to make the world as big as Hyrule so they might be able to get away with a smaller team.
entut1
Bob-omb
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Actually, excuse me for saying 10 times smaller, I just checked it might be closer to 100 times smaller XD
Dcubed
Paratroopa
See, I figured that the old rumour of EPD Tokyo working on a new DK game made complete and total sense. They've been stuck working on 3D Mario games for so long now that they must surely be desperate to work on anything else! (The 3DS Louvre guide and NES Remix being their only non-Mario projects since, what? 2005? And they weren't even the lead developers on those projects either!).
Given that they got their start on DKJB, and that DK has now been absent for a staggering 9 years!? It just makes a ton of sense that they'd be working on a new DK game!
And yet? Nothing... They just totally disappeared off the face of the Earth after Odyssey!
Given that they got their start on DKJB, and that DK has now been absent for a staggering 9 years!? It just makes a ton of sense that they'd be working on a new DK game!
And yet? Nothing... They just totally disappeared off the face of the Earth after Odyssey!
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Pretty easy to identify potential factors that could have a role in EPD 8's absence:
Obviously not the case for Zelda, but it's not like they couldn't hypothetically collaborate remotely. All of these major titles have multiple support studios backing them during production; there was a team at Monolith Soft in Tokyo working on Zelda, for example.
EPD 8 in particular collaborate all the time now (even discounting 1-Up Studio, who share a building with them); they oversaw 3D All-Stars with iQue (in China) and NERD (in France); the Captain Toad and 3D World rereleases were obviously co-developed with NST; and they did provide support to EPD 10 on the Kyoto side by overseeing the 3D World theme in Mario Maker 2.
- They're seemingly working on two major projects simultaneously (seperate 3D and 2D Acton Game recruitments; Mario and DK).
- The likihood of them abandoning their proprietary engine (itterated on since Sunshine) in favor of adopting Lunch Pack (leftovers in 3D All-Stars' launcher).
- The fact that Bowser's Fury was outsourced to begin with, and the number of key 3D Mario staff uncredited on it, is indicative of the core team being busy.
- Pandemic-induced delays; it affected the entire industry.
- At this point, you can't dismiss the posibility of the next 3D Mario title being held back for Nintendo's next hardware.
- For DK, they have potential synergy with Super Nintendo World's Donkey Kong Country expansion (opening 2024 in Osaka; 2025 in Orlando, though I don't think this will be as relevant) to consider. Pre-pandemic 3D World + Bowser's Fury would have launched a few months after the grand opening of Super Mario Land in Japan; and after both were delayed it ended up launching the month before the grand opening.
Obviously not the case for Zelda, but it's not like they couldn't hypothetically collaborate remotely. All of these major titles have multiple support studios backing them during production; there was a team at Monolith Soft in Tokyo working on Zelda, for example.
EPD 8 in particular collaborate all the time now (even discounting 1-Up Studio, who share a building with them); they oversaw 3D All-Stars with iQue (in China) and NERD (in France); the Captain Toad and 3D World rereleases were obviously co-developed with NST; and they did provide support to EPD 10 on the Kyoto side by overseeing the 3D World theme in Mario Maker 2.
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LordByron28
Cappy
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I personally was hoping they would’ve done some dlc. Alternatively a sequel out by now.
With that said, they are likely working on multiple projects. I recall hearing mumblings about EPD Tokyo essentially being in control of the Mario platforming series with them even being involved in Super Mario Maker 2. They also utilize NST and 1up studios quite a bit to help. They have also been going through a slight restructure. Since Odyssey they have had some form of involvement in:
However these titles do not account for a fraction of the staff EAD Tokyo has working for them. I suspect/hope the majority of them are working on two projects. One being DK and the other being 3D Mario. While a very small team works with the 2D Mario team on 2D Mario. I’m hoping that we will see a new 2D Mario this year and DK sometime in the spring of 2024. 3D Mario either Holiday 2024 or Spring 2025. Odyssey was good but could’ve used some fine tuning. Given the wait, I’m not sure I’d want it to be Odyssey 2. However, a Super Mario Odyssey 2D may be interesting and be a reinvention of the 2D Mario formula.
With that said, they are likely working on multiple projects. I recall hearing mumblings about EPD Tokyo essentially being in control of the Mario platforming series with them even being involved in Super Mario Maker 2. They also utilize NST and 1up studios quite a bit to help. They have also been going through a slight restructure. Since Odyssey they have had some form of involvement in:
- Captain Toad (2018)
- Super Mario Maker 2 (2019)
- 3D Allstars (2020)
- 3D World & BF(2021)
However these titles do not account for a fraction of the staff EAD Tokyo has working for them. I suspect/hope the majority of them are working on two projects. One being DK and the other being 3D Mario. While a very small team works with the 2D Mario team on 2D Mario. I’m hoping that we will see a new 2D Mario this year and DK sometime in the spring of 2024. 3D Mario either Holiday 2024 or Spring 2025. Odyssey was good but could’ve used some fine tuning. Given the wait, I’m not sure I’d want it to be Odyssey 2. However, a Super Mario Odyssey 2D may be interesting and be a reinvention of the 2D Mario formula.
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A bit of an exagguration, wherever you heard it from; their involvement on Maker 2 was exclusively with the 3D World theme (presumably they handed over the original assets and animations for a start; and helped out with making everything feel accurate and authentic). EPD 10 in Kyoto are almost certainly still working away at 2D Mario on their own, with their own creative control. Don't expect that to change.
Djehuty
Koopa
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There’s also art painting to sarasaland, I know why it came out in 2017 but if they gave it one or two more years to really flesh out the existing kingdoms and add a few more I think it would have really helped.
Because being honest the kingdom list is pretty meh with only like 5 fully fleshed out ones (sand kingdom, wooded kingdom, luncheon kingdom, metro kingdom, seaside kingdom) the rest are short to negligible.
Even thoguh oddyssey isn’t even in my top 10 mainline Mario I really want a sequal since It could improve upon the world so much (also I want it totk like, we get all the non moon kingdoms back and they are changed or expanded in some ways (especially ruined, cloud and bowsers)
MusicProposition
Bob-omb
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that's also my problem with the game. Having a few more bigger worlds and reducing the moons to something like 500 (eliminate the smallest kingdoms and the moons you just buy, ground-pound, kick a rock etc) and the game would feel more fleshed out
Djehuty
Koopa
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Yeah, it came off as overambitous, and when they realized they tackled too much they tried to brute force it anyway which is how you end up with snow kingdom, and places that are almost 1 use set pieces. It shines in its biggest kingdoms but when it comes to the rest it’s more of a slog than anything. Also the 999 moon cap was a terrible idea to old out the game, the fact you have to buy 100+ which will cost 10k + is actually insane. This game has worse grinding than even the lengthiest jrpg’s to complete.
I still love the skeleton itself but they really could do so much more with switch money I hope.
MusicProposition
Bob-omb
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agreed. The other thing I'm not happy with is the power ups. Cappy transformations are very fun but they don't feel like they make Mario better/more versatile/stronger or anything, but just give him a completely different move set for a very limited amount of time which is sad, especially coming from 3D World which had so many great items you could also store in the inventory and bring to which ever place you liked.
Its the best though in controls and the camera. Playing this game feels like heaven.
Djehuty
Koopa
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Thin is a 64 sequal was being made but canceled due to the disk drive being terrible.
It was it ended to get a sequal,
3d land got a sequal
Galaxy got a sequal.
Sunshine (makes sense I think they capped out what they could do with it)
And oddyssey are the odd ones out here
Though nitnedo only does iterative sequals in non iterative franchises when they feel they can do much more with what the first game offered (galaxy 2, and tears of the kingdom being the main examples)
Mr Doggo
Anti oof
Im just really glad it doesnt exists, for multiple reasons:
Odyssey is boring. It shouldn't be, conceptually it should be the most amazing mario game ever! But its boring. Its worlds feel standard, its soundtrack is alright, its bosses are alright, returning to Peach being a damsell in distress after she being so active in 3D World was shit.
I hope they take a few clues from the movie with the next game. Especially: cinematics, character design and characterization. The mario games feel almost soulless when you compare to how dynamic the film is.
Galaxy is better and should have gotten the third one smh.
Odyssey is boring. It shouldn't be, conceptually it should be the most amazing mario game ever! But its boring. Its worlds feel standard, its soundtrack is alright, its bosses are alright, returning to Peach being a damsell in distress after she being so active in 3D World was shit.
I hope they take a few clues from the movie with the next game. Especially: cinematics, character design and characterization. The mario games feel almost soulless when you compare to how dynamic the film is.
Galaxy is better and should have gotten the third one smh.
entut1
Bob-omb
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honestly, OP? I would like to see a Mario game that's actually Mario's BOTW moment. At least a huge interconnected world, with a map at least a third as big as BOTW's one. I'm being told 64 was Mario's BOTW moment but it's not really the case heh. Zelda had a cool transition to 3D and now to open world (with its own revolutioany spin on it. Let Mario have his own equivalent. Odyssey has its own merits, but it's basically another 64 in terms of formula as in worlds inspired by japanese dioramas, hence those gigantic voids past the limits of the worlds XD. Would like something a bit more organic and coherent.
Number1000DKFan
Moblin
Of course Odyssey is getting a sequel
You don’t make the best selling 3D Mario game and then say “let’s try something new”
Galaxy 2 isn’t the only sequel; 3D Land was followed by 3D World
Probably they wanted to launch it on their new hardware which explains the delay
You don’t make the best selling 3D Mario game and then say “let’s try something new”
Galaxy 2 isn’t the only sequel; 3D Land was followed by 3D World
Probably they wanted to launch it on their new hardware which explains the delay
Djehuty
Koopa
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I don’t say this much but this is pure copium.
Number1000DKFan
Moblin
We will see
Phosphorescent Skeleton
It's a hard world for little things.
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Thanks for having my back on this, came here to make the same post
