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News Soul Hackers 2 announced, coming to PS4/5, XSX/S, XBO and Steam this August

Clov

Welcome to the True Bean's World
Pronouns
She/They
Arioch was in the Raidou games, V had zero Kaneko demons that had no previous 3D appearances outside of Dx2 and NINE.

That's why the new demons here are a particularly huge deal. I want to see the front of Shemyaza and Gu Huo Niao!

Samyaza.jpg
Gu_Huo_Niao.jpg

Oh wow, I didn't know he was in those Raidou games! For some reason I thought his only recent appearance was in the Devil Survivor series. That really makes it more exciting! We'll be seeing some demons that have been away for a long time.
 
I’m not sure why they go with this all or nothing approach of including it with every system but Nintendo. It’s made even weirder now but I’ll just sit back with the popcorn and see where it goes.
Because if it sells well, or even breaks records on everything but Nintendo, it means their platforms are not needed for success going forward and can be excluded as they see fit. Which is a more convenient scenario for many third parties.
 
Because if it sells well, or even breaks records on everything but Nintendo, it means their platforms are not needed for success going forward and can be excluded as they see fit. Which is a more convenient scenario for many third parties.
Even if it didn’t sell well there is always an excuse or reason not to do it on Nintendo’s machines. See Sakura Wars as an example of this.

For me personally I’m not seeing the merits for this all or nothing approach. It would be easier to incorporate the Switch and/or make it lead development on these types of titles. That way you cover the widest amounts of ground possible. But what do I know I’m not making several figures doing weird decisions like this.
 

Imitatio

uncaged
Founder
FamiGold
5
It simply comes down to the big Japanese developers wanting to streamline their pipeline around a common, more predictable development environment and release schedule. PlayStation and Xbox have the same architecture, similar horsepower, target the same audience, release new hardware around the same time and have a similar approach to getting third parties involved during the hardware development phase. Nintendo, who seem like they release whatever they want, whenever in comparison, are much more inconvenient to plan your business around.
That's a point that has often crossed my mind already. With Nintendo being like "let's do this out there stuff next", which is/can be a good and a bad thing at the same time, many third parties certainly don't want to rely on a platform holder this unreliable, in a sense. Like, being more experimental is a good thing on one hand, giving your fans refreshing experiences and new ways of gaming, but on the other, not everything sticks, and forcing your (less close) development partners to shift approaches with you everytime could be perceived as being too inconvenient or, as I said above, kinda unreliable.
At least that's what I've perceived it as from the outside every now and then. Many, many game devs, directors, and producers are also gamers themselves, and they themselves might simply favour a more traditional approach in terms of hardware/software design.

Not sure I'd really blame them. Then again, Switch itself is a well known and established entity at this point, so some of the above might be moot points.
 
I was really excited when this was announced but the trailer was... Meh? I really liked that 90's cyberpunk vibe in the original and the eccentric characters. This looks like a generic sciencefiction RPG.
 

toxic user

Tektite
This looks amazing. Atlus has consistently improved over the years and I can't wait to play this in August.

That said, I beat the Switch version of TMS in late 2020 and I thought it was a relatively weak Atlus game in comparison. If this is the same team, I hope they'll improve a bit. The dungeons in TMS were good, but I actually disliked the combat quite a bit and virtually none of the text in that game was worth reading.
 

Ghostsonplanets

Ghost in the Sales
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He/Him
I don't tink he refers to Soul Hacker 2 as this main project...i like what i see but it's not a big project.
anyway i hope that everything Atlus does comes to Nintendo console.
You're going to be disappointed. At most, expect EO to come to Switch and even that isn't guaranteed anymore.
 

Clix

Paratroopa
This looks amazing. Atlus has consistently improved over the years and I can't wait to play this in August.

That said, I beat the Switch version of TMS in late 2020 and I thought it was a relatively weak Atlus game in comparison. If this is the same team, I hope they'll improve a bit. The dungeons in TMS were good, but I actually disliked the combat quite a bit and virtually none of the text in that game was worth reading.
Whoa. I can understand not liking the very “pop” story, but the combat? That is the best part!
 
D

Deleted member 2422

Guest
I posted the link, because some where on the Internet, I don’t remember where…I saw Atlus teasing a return to Radiant Historia (again) or a new entry in Eyrian Oddesy for 2021 or 2022.

You sleuths can go find it. I distinctly remember it being out there somewhere.
 

toxic user

Tektite
Whoa. I can understand not liking the very “pop” story, but the combat? That is the best part!
I didn't like the chaining of abilities as a mechanic. Also, there was no easy way to just wipe enemy teams. You pretty much had to kill them 1 by 1. Just tedious.
 

Dardan Sandiego

Dill Spowser‘s nephew
Founder
Pronouns
he/him
2018 was a bit early to see Switch crushing Wii, no enhanced Switch model yet unlike DS and 3DS, or PlayStation's worldwide shortages and non-factor status in Japan.

That’s a very specific set of conditions to make a Switch version of a mid-tier RPG worthwhile. Did they say this on the stream?
 

JoshuaJSlone

Moblin
Pronouns
he / him
Come on, folks. All we have is the fact that a Switch version doesn't exist. I just think it's not hard to come up with some possible reasons why beyond "Atlus just throws dice to decide systems!" or "Atlus only loves Sony portables!" I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth.
 

Sumio Mondo

Lynchian
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He/Him

Very interesting interview with some new informations.

Okay so at least they acknowledge it looks different and will be different from the first. It does sound like the connections to the first game will be loose at best as well going by how much they both worked on the first game - as in not at all.
 

HylianSeven

Cappy
Pronouns
He/Him

Very interesting interview with some new informations.
4Gamer: From the graphics and the design of the characters, I got the impression that the atmosphere of the game has changed quite a bit from the previous titles. What is the world view and story like?

Ishida:
The first game was about networks, but this time the theme is the existence of Aion, which came from an accumulation of information on those networks. The subject matter has changed with the changing times, but I think the structure of this game is similar to the first game, in that “technology” is at its core.
I think they seem to understand this aspect of the first game, I'm glad for that. I think we'll see a lot more modern aspects addressed in this game.

I'm not sure who exactly was begging for a Soul Hackers sequel, but I'm thankful for them lol.

4Gamer: Then, how about the game systems?

Hirata:
We’ve made a lot of improvements. Specifically, we’ve powered up to the “Sabbath” battle system. It’s based on Press Turn, and when you hit an opponent’s weak point, a demon will be summoned, with a large army of demons to pull off an All-Out Attack.
I'm really curious to learn more about this. I tried to slow down parts of the trailer, but the bulk of the info I gathered was from the section of the stream showing the Persona 5 DLC.

Some analysis I did based on a few screengrabs from the footage:

We can see that Angel is the demon being used here, looking at the skills and using my phone's Google Translate + what I know from localizations of these games:

Attack
Piercing (Maybe Pierce???)
Needle Shot
Maragi
Zan
Recarm
tPWbJCg.jpg


Might be hard to read this, but she uses Maragi here and on the right before she actually used the spell, you see Kurama Tengu's silhouette in the background and the "Stack" counter was 1. She hit a weakness with Maragi, and you can see Angel's silhouette drop in on the left of Kurama Tengu, and Stack counter goes to 2.
cIsL1fR.jpg


Ringo is using Lenan Sidhe here and from what I can tell the skills are:

Attack
Bufula
Zionga
(Phone wouldn't translate this one for some reason, but maybe Psio like in Persona 5?)
Media
9eUaj6j.jpg


In this shot he just attacked with his gun and this still caused the Kurama Tengu to drop in, upping the Stack count to 1.
8eMBo6z.jpg


This one, I think is some kind of special attack rather than the regular all-out, and the reason for this I'll show in the next screenwhot.
wYTCUgn.jpg


Immediately after the above happens in the trailer, you see Cerberus running and leaping at the camera, and I doubt every demon has a more elaborate animation like that.
hsu0KnY.jpg


Later in the trailer you see this, as Ringo makes a pointing motion. Now you see not three, not four, but SEVEN demons here. This tells me that it may not be as simple as one demon assigned per character.
JoTLPmE.jpg


Right after the above you see all those demons doing a sort of generic "pew pew" at the enemy much like a Persona all-out attack, which this would make sense if all the generic all-out attacks were animated like this, without specific special animations for each demon.
XiPZokV.jpg


Of course I could be way wrong about all of this, but watching it a few times that's what I think it is. There's still a lot of unknown even if all of my analysis is correct though.
 
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MarcelRguez

Write me an endless song
Pronouns
They/Them
I think they seem to understand this aspect of the first game, I'm glad for that. I think we'll see a lot more modern aspects addressed in this game.

I'm not sure who exactly was begging for a Soul Hackers sequel, but I'm thankful for them lol.


I'm really curious to learn more about this. I tried to slow down parts of the trailer, but the bulk of the info I gathered was from the section of the stream showing the Persona 5 DLC.

Some analysis I did based on a few screengrabs from the footage:

We can see that Angel is the demon being used here, looking at the skills and using my phone's Google Translate + what I know from localizations of these games:

Attack
Piercing (Maybe Pierce???)
Needle Shot
Maragi
Zan
Liquor (Maybe this is in place of the liquor mechanic from Devil Summoner and Soul Hackers 1? Or this could just be a bad machine translation. Fairly certain it's not a -dia skill because there's one of those in another screenshot)
tPWbJCg.jpg


Might be hard to read this, but she uses Maragi here and on the right before she actually used the spell, you see Kurama Tengu's silhouette in the background and the "Stack" counter was 1. She hit a weakness with Maragi, and you can see Angel's silhouette drop in on the left of Kurama Tengu, and Stack counter goes to 2.
cIsL1fR.jpg


Ringo is using Lenan Sidhe here and from what I can tell the skills are:

Attack
Bufula
Zionga
(Phone wouldn't translate this one for some reason, but maybe Psio like in Persona 5?)
Media
9eUaj6j.jpg


In this shot he just attacked with his gun and this still caused the Kurama Tengu to drop in, upping the Stack count to 1.
8eMBo6z.jpg


This one, I think is some kind of special attack rather than the regular all-out, and the reason for this I'll show in the next screenwhot.
wYTCUgn.jpg


Immediately after the above happens in the trailer, you see Cerberus running and leaping at the camera, and I doubt every demon has a more elaborate animation like that.
hsu0KnY.jpg


Later in the trailer you see this, as Ringo makes a pointing motion. Now you see not three, not four, but SEVEN demons here. This tells me that it may not be as simple as one demon assigned per character.
JoTLPmE.jpg


Right after the above you see all those demons doing a sort of generic "pew pew" at the enemy much like a Persona all-out attack, which this would make sense if all the generic all-out attacks were animated like this, without specific special animations for each demon.
XiPZokV.jpg


Of course I could be way wrong about all of this, but watching it a few times that's what I think it is. There's still a lot of unknown even if all of my analysis is correct though.
Angel's last skill is Recarm. Not sure about what Ringo's skill is, maybe someone more adept at reading kanji can help out with that.
 

shoptroll

Chain Chomp
Contributor
Pronouns
he/him
@HylianSeven that analysis seems to track with what they said about a “Sabbath” system that’s built-on Press Turn and involves building a mob of demons by hitting weak points. Which sounds similar to the chain stuff in TMS but I sadly didn’t get far into that one.
 

HylianSeven

Cappy
Pronouns
He/Him
@HylianSeven that analysis seems to track with what they said about a “Sabbath” system that’s built-on Press Turn and involves building a mob of demons by hitting weak points. Which sounds similar to the chain stuff in TMS but I sadly didn’t get far into that one.
I'm curious how it works with people using demons though. Does each character get a handful of demons to switch between like how Persona 1 works? In that game you can assign 3 Personas to each character in the Velvet Room and they only switch between those three. We can see you can definitely have more than 4 demons. Does the Stack count have to hit a certain number for an All Out Attack? Is it perhaps a risk/reward system where using a demon and hitting a weakness makes that demon on "standby" for the AoA and you have to use another demon, and then you have to determine if you're able to go without that demon until the AoA, but if you use it early it's not as powerful as it would be with more demons?

That last theory I like and would be kind of cool if it were the case.
 

GamerJM

Bob-omb
Whoa. I can understand not liking the very “pop” story, but the combat? That is the best part!

My main issue was the lack of recruiting. Having a custom team is one of my favorite aspects of MegaTen and TMS is missing that. Otherwise the combat was enjoyable but it really hampered things.

My other issue with the game that wasn't mentioned is the dungeon design, which has an assload of backtracking.
 

SirArthur

Moblin
Pronouns
He/Him
I posted the link, because some where on the Internet, I don’t remember where…I saw Atlus teasing a return to Radiant Historia (again) or a new entry in Eyrian Oddesy for 2021 or 2022.

You sleuths can go find it. I distinctly remember it being out there somewhere.
The Etrain Odyssey news was from last summer on an interview and the Radiant Historia has been an old rumor.

Here is a snipped of the interview: https://nintendoeverything.com/atlus-etrian-odyssey-update/

Funny enough, I think the "other project" mentioned was most likely SH2
 

WAW_Greyhound

Rattata
Pronouns
he/him
I was hyped for sequel to Soul Hackers and instead I got dissapointment after watching the trailer as it is clear that its not a sequel, but a game using Soul Hackers name. So its to safe net this game in case it bombs by making association with original that other regions beside Japan got it with 3DS.

At least SMT V had obvious traces of SMT III Nocturne in style and narrative.

Also of course Atlus again chooses not to support Switch as expected as seen with 3DS when only Persona games it got was those Q spin offs when 3DS had enough hardware to support PS2 tier games compared to PSP.

Switch in Japan in near future will go beyond 3DS. You can combine PS4, PS5 and Xbox One and Series together that won't even come close to Switch in Japan. Globally PS4 is going to be outsold by Switch this year at half point of turning 6 years and PS4 then being nearly 10 year old platform. Took PS4 nearly 7 years and for Switch less than 5 to reach 100 million sales.

Atlus make themselves look like fools considering that SMT V in two months outsold by 100k over P4G has sold on PSP in a year. SMT V will certainly outsell P4G in lifetime sales by a good margin.

Meanwhile Square Enix is pumping out RPGs on Switch be it exclusives, remasters or ports and taking all money on the table that Atlus doesn't even bother to try to get it.
 
Pronouns
he/him
I was hyped for sequel to Soul Hackers and instead I got dissapointment after watching the trailer as it is clear that its not a sequel, but a game using Soul Hackers name. So its to safe net this game in case it bombs by making association with original that other regions beside Japan got it with 3DS.

At least SMT V had obvious traces of SMT III Nocturne in style and narrative.

Also of course Atlus again chooses not to support Switch as expected as seen with 3DS when only Persona games it got was those Q spin offs when 3DS had enough hardware to support PS2 tier games compared to PSP.

Switch in Japan in near future will go beyond 3DS. You can combine PS4, PS5 and Xbox One and Series together that won't even come close to Switch in Japan. Globally PS4 is going to be outsold by Switch this year at half point of turning 6 years and PS4 then being nearly 10 year old platform. Took PS4 nearly 7 years and for Switch less than 5 to reach 100 million sales.

Atlus make themselves look like fools considering that SMT V in two months outsold by 100k over P4G has sold on PSP in a year. SMT V will certainly outsell P4G in lifetime sales by a good margin.

Meanwhile Square Enix is pumping out RPGs on Switch be it exclusives, remasters or ports and taking all money on the table that Atlus doesn't even bother to try to get it.
No you are wrong. It's clearly inspired by the first game and a thematical seuel in it's core. And even the interview proof that the devs know what they are doing and now about the source material.

-Focus on technology
-modern cyberpunk anime aesthetics instead of 90s cyberpunk anime aesthetics (because the original was only 90s cyberpunk anime because it came out in the 90s, nothing more)
-Vision Quests will return in some way
-Ringo is basically a similiar role to Nemessa just this time without a proxy silent protagonist

 
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D

Deleted member 2422

Guest
The Etrain Odyssey news was from last summer on an interview and the Radiant Historia has been an old rumor.

Here is a snipped of the interview: https://nintendoeverything.com/atlus-etrian-odyssey-update/

Funny enough, I think the "other project" mentioned was most likely SH2
great find! I do think Nintendo is getting an Atlus game this year. No idea what it will be though. Based on some comments they made during a financial briefing. Seemed like they had several releases for 2022.

Wasn't SMT V in the Nvidia leaks?
 

SirArthur

Moblin
Pronouns
He/Him
great find! I do think Nintendo is getting an Atlus game this year. No idea what it will be though. Based on some comments they made during a financial briefing. Seemed like they had several releases for 2022.

Wasn't SMT V in the Nvidia leaks?
I don't think EO is coming this year. Huge EO fan here, and in the last one, Nexus, link here, there are portraits of Re-Fantasy and some easter eggs so I could see that game getting at least announce later this year. I can see both can be coming to switch, especially EO.

Yes, SMTV was on the Nvidia leak, as far as that list goes I see it as a 80-20 of all those games coming to PC but who knows.
 
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D

Deleted member 2422

Guest
I don't think EO is coming this year. Huge EO fan here, and in the last one, Nexus, link here, there are portraits of Re-Fantasy and some easter eggs so I could see that game getting at least announce later this year. I can see both can be coming to switch, especially EO.

Yes, SMTV was on the Nvidia leak, as far as that list goes I see it as a 80-20 of all those games coming to PC but who knows.
Yeah, I suspect many 3rd party nintendo exclusives come to PC as a way to help entice more 3rd party exclusives on Nintendo platforms. I believe MUA3 was also on this list.

Nintendo fans are fickle and often times don't support the 3rd party exclusives. Even the ones that turn out great. This year could have several. It will be interesting to see how 2nd/3rd parties fair this year on nintendo.

If releasing them on PC similar to Sony helps them get more exclusives, I am all for it.
 

Seven

Bob-omb
Pronouns
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FamiGold
42
Nintendo fans are fickle and often times don't support the 3rd party exclusives. Even the ones that turn out great. This year could have several. It will be interesting to see how 2nd/3rd parties fair this year on nintendo.

If releasing them on PC similar to Sony helps them get more exclusives, I am all for it.
Do you have any proof of this fickleness or are you just repeating what you read online?
Because I often hear this claim made, but nobody provides any evidence to back it up.
 

Xaltmas

Bob-omb
Pronouns
He/Him
Completely anecdotal but I knew a guy like that, who only played a handful of first-party Nintendo games. If it wasn't Mario, Kirby, DK, Yoshi, Pikmin, or Zelda he legit didn't give a fuck.
 

SirArthur

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Pronouns
He/Him
Yeah, I suspect many 3rd party nintendo exclusives come to PC as a way to help entice more 3rd party exclusives on Nintendo platforms. I believe MUA3 was also on this list.

Nintendo fans are fickle and often times don't support the 3rd party exclusives. Even the ones that turn out great. This year could have several. It will be interesting to see how 2nd/3rd parties fair this year on nintendo.

If releasing them on PC similar to Sony helps them get more exclusives, I am all for it.
MUA3 is a it tricky since it was funded by Nintendo, ala Bayonetta 2. That's why I was kinda iffy on the list.

In my opinion when it comes to 3rd parties you have to consider that across all system generations, unlike Sony and Xbox, 3rd party is not always consistent. That can be attributed to the console, audience, etc. So some people have no idea what to expect and when an exclusive shows up it might not gel with them. But a plus is that the install base is so diverse that games like MUA3 and others can sell well.

As far as this year, they have a ton, almost all from SE :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

meatbag

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Nintendo fans are fickle and often times don't support the 3rd party exclusives.
I’d honestly like to see why you think this is the case. Like which third party exclusives are you thinking of that Nintendo fans didn’t support? Because by all accounts from Momotora to MonHun to SMTV those third party games are selling really well on Switch.
 

MarcelRguez

Write me an endless song
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I’d honestly like to see why you think this is the case. Like which third party exclusives are you thinking of that Nintendo fans didn’t support? Because by all accounts from Momotora to MonHun to SMTV those third party games are selling really well on Switch.
There are on other platforms now and I don't have sales figures at hand, but I'm assuming the likes of Deadly Premonition 2 and Travis Strikes Again didn't set the world on fire, although people might justify those due to their aesthetics/technical issues.

Not sure about Daemon X Machina and No More Heroes 3. My bet is that Marvelous and Grasshopper are probably satisfied with what they sold, but I'd be surprised if they reached even the SMTV tier of sales.
 

meatbag

Like Like
There are on other platforms now and I don't have sales figures at hand, but I'm assuming the likes of Deadly Premonition 2 and Travis Strikes Again didn't set the world on fire, although people might justify those due to their aesthetics/technical issues.

Not sure about Daemon X Machina and No More Heroes 3. My bet is that Marvelous and Grasshopper are probably satisfied with what they sold, but I'd be surprised if they reached even the SMTV tier of sales.
We don't know about the sales numbers for all of those games, but Daemon X Machina exceeded expectations, which is why the developers are already working on a sequel. Not indicative of fans failing to support the game at all.

The other three games were always never going to sell that well, especially Deadly Premonition 2 which had its fair share of issues. And even if we say they count, that can easily be chalked up to the reality that not every game is going to sell well.
 
D

Deleted member 2422

Guest
I’d honestly like to see why you think this is the case. Like which third party exclusives are you thinking of that Nintendo fans didn’t support? Because by all accounts from Momotora to MonHun to SMTV those third party games are selling really well on Switch.
"Nintendo fans do not buy 3rd party content". Traditionally Nintendo fans BEG for 3rd party ports. I know I have been guilty of it in the past.

Anyway, Nintendo's 3rd party content usually sells a fraction of what the game sells on other platforms, say Playstation, Xbox, etc. This is not always the case mind you....but more often than not.

Monster Hunter is an excellent example you mentioned. Built from ground up with Switch in mind, and it runs well, and looks fantastic for a Switch title. Guess what...it sold like gangbusters for Switch.

SMT V is somewhere close to a million units sold per reports. That is great for an SMT title, but in the grand scheme of things for Atlus, no where near Persona sales levels. It is extremely niche RPG, so that must factor in. (More niche than Persona)
Still though, Atlus says it has "met expectations" but, it has not exceeded them. So...if placing these titles on PC later helps Nintendo secure more of these titles...do so. I don't care if it is SMT, Bayonetta, Mario Rabbids, MUA3, etc...these should ALL come to PC or even other consoles later to maximize profits.

Some games fall victim to circumstances, which I honestly believe is what happened with Overwatch. Overwatch may be the best 3rd party "port" on Switch. Sadly, it was digital only, came 2.5 years after PS4/Xbox/PC versions and launched without any marketing at the time, because of Activision troubles with China. I believe it still has sold over a million units per reports. But a million in sales is a tiny fraction of what Xbox/PS4/PC sold. If a million copies is the threshold for a "good" amount of sales for a AA-AAA port...then some like Fifa, Bomberman R, Witcher 3, DQXI, all achieved this...

...But many titles do not do this. Most actually do not. This goes back to an age old argument. Does a console manufacturer NEED 3rd party content to survive?

History up until this point has shown us no console manufacture can survive without some 3rd party support. History is littered with the console sales numbers....Neo Geo, PS Vita, OG Xbox, Wii U, Saturn, Dreamcast, etc. Systems that didn't exactly have great 3rd party support. These were different generations, but the trend continues.

With each generation AA-AAA games become more expensive to make, and thus less games are made overall. Switch is great example, look at how many true AA-AAA 3rd party titles are on Switch. Not that many overall.

Nintendo, in light of this has flourished with Switch because they have opened the Eshop and turned it into a console version of Steam. Anything and everything for sale, and Nintendo takes a cut. Like Google, Apple, and Valve. Caring very little for content quality! For the most part. Most of the titles are garbage. There are some truly great titles, don't get me wrong and many of you will respond with what about "Title A, B, and C". You are right! But for "title A, B, and C" there are 20 garbage titles on the eShop.

I have been pushing this narrative for 5 years and now I actually talk to developers about this and safety of online for children. Nintendo should double down on unique content with a few exceptions for 3rd parties (sports, Minecraft, Fortnite, etc.) Make the majority of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party titles "EVERGREEN" and have LESS RELEASES OVERALL. I know what I just said. Have the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" or some other metric brought back and stamp that on these titles.

The problem is...if Nintendo fans don't support 3rd parties currently they can not gather enough data and analytics to pivot and create a bold move like this going forward.

Nintendo has no doubt money hatted several of the 3rd party titles on Switch. They can not money hat them all though. So, for consumers, they need to reward the ports that are brought to nintendo that are good ports (whatever your own unique taste). Should we reward bad ports...no. Good ones, absolutely. But if we continue to port beg and not buy those ports, it is still driving the narrative that "Nintendo fans do not buy 3rd party content".

Gaming is at a true crossroads. I truly believe Nintendo offers the best 1st party content due to it's uniqueness and usually high level of polish, and quality of gameplay. They usually also are not into annualized releases for continuous cash grabs.

The end game down the road is nintendo will likely be sold to a larger entity. Will it be in 10 years or 50 years. To give Nintendo an opportunity to create unique content for future generations they need to have quality 3rd party content on their consoles while they still make them. In order to do so, we need Nintendo fans to actually consume 3rd party content like the Playstation and Xbox counterparts.
 

Linkstrikesback

Bob-omb
Pronouns
He
Nintendo, in light of this has flourished with Switch because they have opened the Eshop and turned it into a console version of Steam. Anything and everything for sale, and Nintendo takes a cut. Like Google, Apple, and Valve. Caring very little for content quality! For the most part. Most of the titles are garbage. There are some truly great titles, don't get me wrong and many of you will respond with what about "Title A, B, and C". You are right! But for "title A, B, and C" there are 20 garbage titles on the eShop.

I have been pushing this narrative for 5 years and now I actually talk to developers about this and safety of online for children. Nintendo should double down on unique content with a few exceptions for 3rd parties (sports, Minecraft, Fortnite, etc.) Make the majority of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party titles "EVERGREEN" and have LESS RELEASES OVERALL. I know what I just said. Have the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" or some other metric brought back and stamp that on these titles.

You're mistaking "Being the biggest platform" with some other version of reality where companies decide or not to release titles. Yes, there are a large number of poor quality games. That happens with literally every super successful platform. The PS1, the PS2, the Wii, the PS4, when you're the market leader, the garbage comes in droves, as do the successes.

What you just said is something no platform holder will ever consider. Not only is there so much content it's impossible to do quality assurance in the way you're thinking, but there will be numerous quality games taken as causalities that don't make it to your hypothetical store. It's not worth it. Just do what everyone else has always done and don't buy the garbage.

Asking 3rd parties to basically only make unique content, you might as well just kill your own platform before it begins. It's not the 90's anymore.
 

meatbag

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Anyway, Nintendo's 3rd party content usually sells a fraction of what the game sells on other platforms, say Playstation, Xbox, etc. This is not always the case mind you....but more often than not.
False, unless you don't consider indies as third-party content. Also consider Japan where PS until only recently had almost zero market presence.
Monster Hunter is an excellent example you mentioned. Built from ground up with Switch in mind, and it runs well, and looks fantastic for a Switch title. Guess what...it sold like gangbusters for Switch.
Yep, quality titles will sell.
SMT V is somewhere close to a million units sold per reports. That is great for an SMT title, but in the grand scheme of things for Atlus, no where near Persona sales levels. It is extremely niche RPG, so that must factor in. (More niche than Persona)
SMT was indeed never going to sell like Persona, and Atlus never expected it to.
Still though, Atlus says it has "met expectations" but, it has not exceeded them. So...if placing these titles on PC later helps Nintendo secure more of these titles...do so. I don't care if it is SMT, Bayonetta, Mario Rabbids, MUA3, etc...these should ALL come to PC or even other consoles later to maximize profits.
SMTV will probably hit PC. MUA3 is a maybe. No chance Mario + Rabbids or Bayonetta 3 gets PC ports. They have value as exclusives diversifying the Switch library.
Some games fall victim to circumstances, which I honestly believe is what happened with Overwatch. Overwatch may be the best 3rd party "port" on Switch. Sadly, it was digital only, came 2.5 years after PS4/Xbox/PC versions and launched without any marketing at the time, because of Activision troubles with China. I believe it still has sold over a million units per reports. But a million in sales is a tiny fraction of what Xbox/PS4/PC sold. If a million copies is the threshold for a "good" amount of sales for a AA-AAA port...then some like Fifa, Bomberman R, Witcher 3, DQXI, all achieved this...
These games have sold well considering they're late ports.
Nintendo, in light of this has flourished with Switch because they have opened the Eshop and turned it into a console version of Steam. Anything and everything for sale, and Nintendo takes a cut. Like Google, Apple, and Valve. Caring very little for content quality! For the most part. Most of the titles are garbage. There are some truly great titles, don't get me wrong and many of you will respond with what about "Title A, B, and C". You are right! But for "title A, B, and C" there are 20 garbage titles on the eShop.

I have been pushing this narrative for 5 years and now I actually talk to developers about this and safety of online for children. Nintendo should double down on unique content with a few exceptions for 3rd parties (sports, Minecraft, Fortnite, etc.) Make the majority of 1st, 2nd and 3rd party titles "EVERGREEN" and have LESS RELEASES OVERALL. I know what I just said. Have the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" or some other metric brought back and stamp that on these titles.
This is the wrong approach. That there is a lot of "garbage" games only signifies how successful the Switch ecosystem is. It does Nintendo no favors to make it hard for third parties to develop for the Switch. What the eshop needs is to improve visibility and discoverability of titles based on the user's profile, like Steam does.
But if we continue to port beg and not buy those ports, it is still driving the narrative that "Nintendo fans do not buy 3rd party content".
A lot of the ports are selling. This is why a lot of ports are coming to the system. Publishers have noticed that the Switch audience is hungry for that type of content.
The end game down the road is nintendo will likely be sold to a larger entity. Will it be in 10 years or 50 years.
We'll see five decades down the line but judging from Nintendo's current strength it is highly unlikely anyone can just buy Nintendo.
To give Nintendo an opportunity to create unique content for future generations they need to have quality 3rd party content on their consoles while they still make them. In order to do so, we need Nintendo fans to actually consume 3rd party content like the Playstation and Xbox counterparts.
As of September 2021 third party software sales (excluding digital-only titles) accounted for around 47% of total Switch software sales. And that percentage would likely be higher if e-shop only titles were accounted for. Switch users have shown they will buy third party games. The onus is on the publishers to deliver those games to Switch players.
 
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Deleted member 2422

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False, unless you don't consider indies as third-party content. Also consider Japan where PS until only recently had almost zero market presence.

Yep, quality titles will sell.

SMT was indeed never going to sell like Persona, and Atlus never expected it to.

SMTV will probably hit PC. MUA3 is a maybe. No chance Mario + Rabbids or Bayonetta 3 gets PC ports. They have value as exclusives diversifying the Switch library.

These games have sold well considering they're late ports.

This is the wrong approach. That there is a lot of "garbage" games only signifies how successful the Switch ecosystem is. It does Nintendo no favors to make it hard for third parties to develop for the Switch. What the eshop needs is to improve visibility and discoverability of titles based on the user's profile, like Steam does.

A lot of the ports are selling. This is why a lot of ports are coming to the system. Publishers have noticed that the Switch audience is hungry for that type of content.

We'll see five decades down the line but judging from Nintendo's current strength it is highly unlikely anyone can just buy Nintendo.
As of September 2021 third party software sales (excluding digital-only titles) accounted for around 47% of total Switch software sales. And that percentage would likely be higher if e-shop only titles were accounted for. Switch users have shown they will buy third party games. The onus is on the publishers to deliver those games to Switch players.
Mario Rabbids, MUA3, Bayo3 are all on the Nvidia Leaks. So far, the list has proven true. It of course doesn't mean it is a 100% but, so far it seems like it is.

You are wrong about no one affording Nintendo. One Chinese and one American come to mind immediately that could easily cut a check for Nintendo without any issue. I just don't think they will or should. People often forget this is a business first and foremost. Nintendo for the most part does not care about any singular customer. Nor does, Apple, MS, Sony, etc. I am not sure they should. All you can ask is they operate for the "public good" as much as possible. Clearly a concept line that has been blurred in the last decade or so.

You all fight so fiercely for Nintendo. I find it odd. I want them to succeed as much as anyone but, I am not fanatical about it. Big difference.

As for the wrong approach and it is not the 90's anymore. By unique content, like MHR, or Octopath they can release those on other platforms at a later date. I mean fewer titles, that in turn are specifically designed to utilize the hardware and run well.

Similar to how Capcom treats Nintendo and Sony....one gets MH World, and the other gets Monster Hunter Rise. Atlus again, same thing...Persona mainline is on Sony, and SMT mainline is on Nintendo. I believe this is a smart strategy going forward. Nintendo should look into this with more 3rd parties.

This strategy is actually what Sony outlined in their financial meeting leading up to ps5 release. I believe this is a similar path Nintendo should take as well. They wanted unique content more than having the same thing that is on every system. Sony specifically outlined GaaS titles, and Single player adventures (uncharted, God of war, Spiderman). I believe there was an article recently in Bloomberg talking about this again as well.

I believe all 3 platform holders should double down on their strengths. Sony strength has always been since ps2...Single player narrative driven games, Xbox has always been primarily Xbox Live, and Nintendo has always been at it's best with couch multiplayer and co-op. It doesn't mean that is all they should do.
 

SirArthur

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Mario Rabbids, MUA3, Bayo3 are all on the Nvidia Leaks. So far, the list has proven true. It of course doesn't mean it is a 100% but, so far it seems like it is.
I mentioned this before but the Nvidia leak is not a portfolio of games coming to pc. It is a database of titles that have use the platform for debugging and coding, its very useful. In addition since the switch uses Nvidia tech, look at the Nvidia shield tv in China that has Wii games, 3rd parties use its services.

I am not saying that their aren't coming to PC but given the fact that all of them were funded by Nintendo, and 1 has their mascot, those chances are close to 0.

In end unless you work at X or Y company, discussing "this is their strategy because..." its pointless. Lets just enjoy the games get
 

Seven

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@whitewatermoose, have you ever considered that the reason Mario + Rabbids, MUA3, Bayonetta 3, and SMTV showed up on the Nvidia list because the Switch uses Nvidia architecture. I see everyone pointing to that list as if it's a given these titles will be ported, but it could also be that using Nvidia's resources made development on the Switch easier.

Also you still haven't given any concrete proof that Nintendo fans are fickle on 3rd Party titles outside of the fact that late ports sell less which has always been a given no matter the system. Meanwhile 3rd Party games that are released on the Switch at the same time as the other systems do pretty well (Mortal Kombat) or even better (Ace Attorney). Everything else you've written was just your opinion or based on ambiguous interviews you supposedly had with developers.
 
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@whitewatermoose, have you ever considered that the reason Mario + Rabbids, MUA3, Bayonetta 3, and SMTV showed up on the Nvidia list because the Switch uses Nvidia architecture. I see everyone pointing to that list as if it's a given these titles will be ported, but it could also be that using Nvidia's resources made development on the Switch easier.

Also you still haven't given any concrete proof that Nintendo fans are fickle on 3rd Party titles outside of the fact that late ports sell less which has always been a given no matter the system. Meanwhile 3rd Party games that are released on the Switch at the same time as the other systems do pretty well (Mortal Kombat) or even better (Ace Attorney). Everything else you've written was just your opinion or based on ambiguous interviews you supposedly had with developers.
I would find that odd, as I see now reason why it would matter regarding Nvidia architecture, unless it is for Nvidia Cloud streaming. China, yes I agree. Yet, Nintendo has gone as far as partner with Tencent to push Switch in China. I think they want to push the platform primarily, and not put on pc in china at this time.

Also the argument about well, maybe it was for Nvidia shield. I have seen that argument as well. Nintendo Switch uses a different software kernel than that of Nviida Shield. Even though they are similar architecture.

Mortal Kombat sold no where near what its xbox/ps4 counterparts sold. Not even close. But, yes for Nintendo Standards, I believe it sold well. I think our basic disagreement boils down to this. Chicken or the Egg scenario, nothing more. I believe Nintendo fans need to be cultivated into buying and trying big AA-AAA 3rd party titles. No, I don't consider Indies AA-AAA 3rd party support. If we have less AA-AAA 3rd party content, but everyone was a good port or unique in some manner, it may open the opportunity for more sales thru the same way evergreen 1st party titles enjoy.

Ace Attorney, you have a point there. I honestly don't know much about Ace Attorney series, but I would be surprised if Nintendo was not the lead platform for sales.

I hope you all enjoy your weekend! @SirArthur, I agree with you!
 

SuperFakerBros

Anti-Artistic Integrity
I would find that odd, as I see now reason why it would matter regarding Nvidia architecture, unless it is for Nvidia Cloud streaming. China, yes I agree. Yet, Nintendo has gone as far as partner with Tencent to push Switch in China. I think they want to push the platform primarily, and not put on pc in china at this time.

Also the argument about well, maybe it was for Nvidia shield. I have seen that argument as well. Nintendo Switch uses a different software kernel than that of Nviida Shield. Even though they are similar architecture.

Mortal Kombat sold no where near what its xbox/ps4 counterparts sold. Not even close. But, yes for Nintendo Standards, I believe it sold well. I think our basic disagreement boils down to this. Chicken or the Egg scenario, nothing more. I believe Nintendo fans need to be cultivated into buying and trying big AA-AAA 3rd party titles. No, I don't consider Indies AA-AAA 3rd party support. If we have less AA-AAA 3rd party content, but everyone was a good port or unique in some manner, it may open the opportunity for more sales thru the same way evergreen 1st party titles enjoy.

Ace Attorney, you have a point there. I honestly don't know much about Ace Attorney series, but I would be surprised if Nintendo was not the lead platform for sales.

I hope you all enjoy your weekend! @SirArthur, I agree with you!
Late ports in general don't sell as well as initial releases, which is true for any system, and, even on PS/Xbox, some games sell worse there than on Switch or PC or games that didn't sell so well on previous Nintendo systems faired no better there, like with TW101 or even a game like NMH. Niche games don't particularly sell well on any system so I don't get why any of them were used as examples

I know MK11 was a day and date port but it's also by far the absolute worst version of the game and wasn't even shown off till shortly before the game released and received none of the attention nor marketing of the other releases. Never mind that the franchise had been absent on Nintendo systems for a long long time. Of course it didn't sell as well as the other versions. Why would it? It had everything working against it. But, even then, it still sold just fine. Not selling as well as the other versions doesn't mean that Nintendo fans don't like to buy 3rd party content. Same with pointing towards the split between 1st party and 3rd party software. 3rd party developers rarely put out big releases on the Switch for the split to tilt in their direction. You can't buy what isn't there

Also, finally, you can cool it with the thinly veiled fanboy accusation. Disagreeing with your rather flawed argument doesn't make us as such
 

meatbag

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Mario Rabbids, MUA3, Bayo3 are all on the Nvidia Leaks. So far, the list has proven true. It of course doesn't mean it is a 100% but, so far it seems like it is.
You have a significant misunderstanding of how Nintendo operates if you think a Mario spinoff will release on the PC storefront. As others have said, Switch uses Nvidia tech, which is probably why they are in the leak.
You are wrong about no one affording Nintendo. One Chinese and one American come to mind immediately that could easily cut a check for Nintendo without any issue. I just don't think they will or should. People often forget this is a business first and foremost.
You oversimplify the process of acquisition. There are several factors as to why the purchase of Nintendo is unlikely. One, Nintendo isn't even looking to sell, especially with their current strength. Two, with Activision-Blizzard selling at 70 billion USD, Nintendo can easily argue that their properties are worth tenfold of that. Three, there are regulations in Japan that prevent foreign business from buying out Japanese companies, so Tencent and MS can't just show up at Kyoto HQ with a check in their hand. Four, Nintendo is considered a cultural icon of Japan, and you can bet the Japanese government will make it very, very hard for foreign companies to buy off Nintendo.

You all fight so fiercely for Nintendo. I find it odd. I want them to succeed as much as anyone but, I am not fanatical about it. Big difference.
I do not appreciate the implication that I am "fanatical". If you do not actually wish to engage in reasoned discussion, just say so.

As for the wrong approach and it is not the 90's anymore. By unique content, like MHR, or Octopath they can release those on other platforms at a later date. I mean fewer titles, that in turn are specifically designed to utilize the hardware and run well.

Similar to how Capcom treats Nintendo and Sony....one gets MH World, and the other gets Monster Hunter Rise. Atlus again, same thing...Persona mainline is on Sony, and SMT mainline is on Nintendo. I believe this is a smart strategy going forward. Nintendo should look into this with more 3rd parties.
If I am understanding you correctly, you are supporting timed console exclusivity, in which case, yes, it clearly does help sales, otherwise publishers wouldn't bother. They're already doing that.

This strategy is actually what Sony outlined in their financial meeting leading up to ps5 release. I believe this is a similar path Nintendo should take as well. They wanted unique content more than having the same thing that is on every system. Sony specifically outlined GaaS titles, and Single player adventures (uncharted, God of war, Spiderman). I believe there was an article recently in Bloomberg talking about this again as well.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo knows the importance of having unique content. They have a large stable of multimillion-selling first party IPs. And they've partnered with other studios for games like MonHun, DQXIIS, etc.

I believe all 3 platform holders should double down on their strengths. Sony strength has always been since ps2...Single player narrative driven games, Xbox has always been primarily Xbox Live, and Nintendo has always been at it's best with couch multiplayer and co-op. It doesn't mean that is all they should do.
You already mentioned Sony wants to make GaaS titles, which does indicate they're trying new things. Nintendo has been expanding their internal dev teams and branching into non-video game ventures. X-box bought up Bethesda to add singleplayer titles to their multiplayer heavy marquee of titles, plus GamePass. All three platform holders are already doing what you're suggesting.

Mortal Kombat sold no where near what its xbox/ps4 counterparts sold. Not even close. But, yes for Nintendo Standards, I believe it sold well. I think our basic disagreement boils down to this. Chicken or the Egg scenario, nothing more. I believe Nintendo fans need to be cultivated into buying and trying big AA-AAA 3rd party titles. No, I don't consider Indies AA-AAA 3rd party support. If we have less AA-AAA 3rd party content, but everyone was a good port or unique in some manner, it may open the opportunity for more sales thru the same way evergreen 1st party titles enjoy.
First, indies absolutely do count as third party support and is in fact a booming sector of the video game industry. Second, having less third party content is NOT better than having more. Who would even curate what games are "good" ports or are "unique in some manner"? There's no sense in arbitrary gatekeeping. If you remove Mulaka or Spiritfarer from the eshop those customers aren't going to be "cultivated" into buying the Witcher 3. They would simply... not buy.

I reiterate: having a smaller selection of games would hurt the sales potential of any console and frankly it's ridiculous to even propose it.

Mortal Kombat did not sell as well on Xbox and PS4, agreed. But that's precisely because the audience for MK on Nintendo consoles hasn't been cultivated yet. Removing a hundred indie games from the eshop isn't going to make people buy Mortal Kombat.
 

Seven

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@whitewatermoose, so you're just going to bounce without providing anything to back your claims outside of your own opinion? If you're just going to peddle unsubstantiated nonsense you'd probably have better luck on Twitter/Era, otherwise have some proof next time and don't try to pull off that "do your own research" or "everyone is so fanactical here" garbage whenever you're questioned.

Also I don't see what's so odd about using Nvidia's cloud tech during a pandemic while developing Switch games that run on Nvidia architecture. Not to mention nowhere in my post did I bring up China, Tencent, or the Nvidia Shield so I have no idea where that tangent came from.
 

Blue Monty

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Honestly between no Switch and no demon summoning my hype died but now seeing as just a new IP (which is what Sega is trying to do with it) I'm hyped for the game again , hope it succeds so Atlus/Sega does more games related to Megaten than Persona/Mainline will probably buy day 1 if reviews are not awful
 

Believe Mushrooms

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This game is the sickest SMT has looked in a long time. Cyber Sleuth's wacky Digimon antics would be such a great template for this game's sidequests.
 


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