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Rumour Paper Mario Thousand Year Door HD in development

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Honestly, given this thread, I wonder how many TTYD superfans even gave The Origami King an honest shot. Not to say that TOK is inherently better or that TTYD fans would necessarily like it for its own merits, but a lot of the posts in this thread are just so dismissive of it. Arguments come off as though the game is Soulless Nothing while Unrestrained Genius languishes on the GameCube, and would surely blow TOK out of the water, setting all kinds of sales records if only it were re-released, exactly as is.

TTYD superfan here, I played through The Origami King twice. Did I like it? Yes and no. My first play-through I was doing my best to be open minded. On my second play-through I was just appreciating the art and design of the world (and using as reference for my Art)

Perhaps what we all can agree on is that Origami King’s art style is it’s best quality. The music was enjoyable, I actually liked the instense rock/guitar segments. Although some may find that its not very fitting for the series, nevertheless, I had no qualms with it.

Where the game starts to fall and where most people agree, is the combat system. They decided to make a tedious ring puzzle every time you engaged in combat. Is it easy? Most of the time, but difficulty isnt the problem with the combat in TOK, it’s the pacing. Battling enemies is such a waste of time and makes me question myself of why I am putting myself through this.

Engaging in combat merits nothing in TOK because confetti and coins can be obtained in the over-world and there is no short supply of both. This game suffers from the same problem sticker star did “why engage in combat? to lose battle items and gain nothing?”

This is where I say I’d actually prefer if they got rid of the turn based combat (gasp!). If they are keeping turn based combat for the last 3 games to appeal to the classic Paper Mario fans then they should stop and do away with it because you’re hurting both sides of the spectrum. Classic Paper Mario fans are certainly not winning from it and the rest of the audience are certainly not praising and playing the game for its combat.

Which brings me to another topic…the paper macho battles are fantastic. If the whole game was like this it would actually be tied for my top 3 paper marios. The macho enemy fights do away with the turn based combat and let you have engaging over-world battles. This is what was missing from like 80% of the game, engaging combat.

I liked Super Paper Mario because it wasn't trying to be something its not. It wanted to be its own weird thing and executed it with style. Is it the most innovative thing? No. But it wasnt trying to pander to classic paper mario fans and it certainly did not lack creativity and originality in story telling, character design, and world building. Even though I actually prefer the classic RPG format way more, Super was still fun because in a game design aspect it was still enjoyable in it own weird way.

Origami King and the 2 games before it suffer and fall short because they are trying to please both agendas which will end up leaving both sides of the spectrum dissatisfied. If you don’t care for the turned based combat well then you’re getting cheated on a game that could’ve been made better. If you’re a fan of the classics, you’re getting a watered down version of what you loved.

Also I posted it here before but shameless plug in for that Art I stated I used TOK for reference!

 
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When I think of who should absolutely try a game out, it's an audience who already has a reason to dislike a game that was preceded by two butt fumble disasters.

I like Mario RPGs. Paper Mario isn't an RPG anymore. Do the math.
 
Honestly, given this thread, I wonder how many TTYD superfans even gave The Origami King an honest shot. Not to say that TOK is inherently better or that TTYD fans would necessarily like it for its own merits, but a lot of the posts in this thread are just so dismissive of it. Arguments come off as though the game is Soulless Nothing while Unrestrained Genius languishes on the GameCube, and would surely blow TOK out of the water, setting all kinds of sales records if only it were re-released, exactly as is.
People are dismissive of TOK because it's the third game in a disliked formula.

People really liked Mario RPGs (SMRPG, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, etc).
People really liked Paper Mario, especially the first two games.
Sticker Star was a terrible game which ran counter to nearly everything liked about the Mario RPGs/Paper Mario (lack of RPG mechanics, terrible/non-existent story, uncreative world/generic characters, etc.)
Color Splash and TOK made improvements, to the point where I wouldn't call that outright bad games. But ultimately they're iterating on a formula that removed the aspects of the series that made it beloved in the first place. It's so different it might as well be a different series.
 
People are dismissive of TOK because it's the third game in a disliked formula.

People really liked Mario RPGs (SMRPG, Paper Mario, Mario & Luigi, etc).
People really liked Paper Mario, especially the first two games.
Sticker Star was a terrible game which ran counter to nearly everything liked about the Mario RPGs/Paper Mario (lack of RPG mechanics, terrible/non-existent story, uncreative world/generic characters, etc.)
Color Splash and TOK made improvements, to the point where I wouldn't call that outright bad games. But ultimately they're iterating on a formula that removed the aspects of the series that made it beloved in the first place. It's so different it might as well be a different series.
Where does Super Paper Mario fit in this equation for you, then?

Also, generally, the response to Color Splash that I've anecdotally seen is generally very positive. It's also just really unfair to it, and to TOK, to label those games as just improved Sticker Star.
 
I liked Origami King but it's very very flawed.

The first two chapters are fantastic, it starts out as a nonstop barrage of charming interactions and that's a great time. But then you hit desert and those charming interactions are broken up by driving around a boring desert for a while.

And then there's the boat chapter, which is even worse: character interaction plummets to a minimum, you're reenacting Windwaker but the islands are lifeless and the entire chapter is devoid of any overarching scenario. After how brilliant chapter 2 was, I don't know what they were thinking other than maybe they just didn't have time to add a story to that part of the game

Chapter 5 is much better, the game gets some good mileage out of Kamek and Bowser Jr but it's also on the shorter side, and then Chapter 6 is just the endgame dungeon. Half the game is wonderful, but the other half is a fair bit of eh.

Honestly, Color Splash (which is a good game tbh) is more consistent than Origami King. The beginning is rather weak, but it starts to pick up after the first boss and its an enjoyable time. It's got the charm that Sticker Star lacked.
 
People can say what they want about the last few PM games but I think we can all agree that Sticker Star was an abomination lol.
 
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Where does Super Paper Mario fit in this equation for you, then?

Also, generally, the response to Color Splash that I've anecdotally seen is generally very positive. It's also just really unfair to it, and to TOK, to label those games as just improved Sticker Star.
I like SPM a lot personally. Despite the genre shift it's more in-line with the original series since it retains many of the series staples and conventions (world/writing, partners, aesthetic similarities, elements like cooking/Pit of 1000 Trials, etc). I consider it more a Paper Mario game than SS/CS/TOK.

CS is a huge improvement over SS for sure, but it's still iterating on a formula that upturned the series for the worse.
 
When I think of who should absolutely try a game out, it's an audience who already has a reason to dislike a game that was preceded by two butt fumble disasters.

I like Mario RPGs. Paper Mario isn't an RPG anymore. Do the math.
Okay I hear you but what if I told you that you are a tiny diaper baby obsessed with nostalgia and Nintendo is kinobasedpoggers because they won't make Mario RPGs anymore and your Hat Goomba is dumb.

Does that help any.
Thanks for somehow lowering the bar of this discourse even farther.
 
If CS is good on its own merits, does it matter that it's not an RPG?
When it's the successor to the original Paper Mario series, yes. If it was a separate franchise I wouldn't have a problem with it. But SS/CS/TOK are all positioned as mainline PM games, and they have very little in common with the originals.
 
When it's the successor to the original Paper Mario series, yes. If it was a separate franchise I wouldn't have a problem with it. But SS/CS/TOK are all positioned as mainline PM games, and they have very little in common with the originals.
You can say that, but Super was still a stark departure. IS just hasn't been interested in making more games in the specific vein of 64 and TTYD.
 
You can say that, but Super was still a stark departure. IS just hasn't been interested in making more games in the specific vein of 64 and TTYD.
And people were disappointed with SPM being departure from 64/TTYD back when it came out. And now SS/CS/TOK have even less in common with the originals to the point where it's essentially a different franchise.

Fans have largely just wanted a proper Paper Mario 3 since TTYD, and the franchise has only regressed since then. It's disappointing to see happen.
 
And people were disappointed with SPM being departure from 64/TTYD back when it came out. And now SS/CS/TOK have even less in common with the originals to the point where it's essentially a different franchise.

Fans have largely just wanted a proper Paper Mario 3 since TTYD, and the franchise has only regressed since then. It's disappointing to see happen.
That’s another topic too, fans of the later 3 games like to group the classic fans in the “they just want another TTYD” while not entirely false…The classic fans want another natural evolution to the rpg series like how TTYD was to 64.

We should always want the next thing to be bigger and better. Like how Tears of The Kingdom is going to make Botw (which was great) look vanilla.
 
SPM was a significant departure but it also wasn’t good so that is two marks against it.
 
SPM desperately just did not want to be anything resembling a Mario game despite slapping his picture on the box. It's very strange.

It's no wonder Nintendo decided to rein IS in after that
 
Paper mario is like politics or religion, you dont bring it up unless your looking for a debate
I find it interesting. It's kinda Nintendo's Final Fantasy in a way, the series went through multiple gameplay iterations (in a way you can't attribute the whole series to a single gameplay style, this one for example has 4 different gameplay styles) and some people prefer a certain type of iteration and wish the series went back to a certain era of gameplay. Both series veered more into action than RPG as time went on (altho SPM is still the most action in the series, but from SS to OK there's progression into action game territory too)
 
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I find it interesting. It's kinda Nintendo's Final Fantasy in a way, the series went through multiple gameplay iterations (in a way you can't attribute the whole series to a single gameplay style, this one for example has 4 different gameplay styles) and some people prefer a certain type of iteration and wish the series went back to a certain era of gameplay. Both series veered more into action than RPG as time went on (altho SPM is still the most action in the series, but from SS to OK there's progression into action game territory too)
yeeeah but Final Fantasy has re-releases, remasters, remakes and stuff. Besides Paper Mario on NSO, Nintendo has been dead silent on these older games. I think the core TTYD fan base (which I’m not a part of) would appreciate the newer games much more if Nintendo didn’t try to remove past games out of existence like they do with many games
 
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In terms of sales, the "problem" with Origami King isn't that it's bad or it's betraying its fans or whatever, it's just that it's not an essential Switch game. Paper Mario used to be a 90+ series on Metacritic, beloved by everyone and in the pantheon of their console's libraries. Origami King simply isn't. It's a well loved game, but its WoM and sales trajectory is closer to something like Astral Chain or a Yoshi platformer than it is one of those essential Switch games that people pick up with a new console and become an evergreen.

This is why I do think Paper Mario has untapped sales potential that Origami King couldn't reach on Switch. But for that it has to be back to being a critically acclaimed essential game. I'm not talking about going back to its roots, just the status the series used to have. But I do think the easiest way to do that is to be a great JRPG.
 
SPM desperately just did not want to be anything resembling a Mario game despite slapping his picture on the box. It's very strange.

It's no wonder Nintendo decided to rein IS in after that

That's not true, it's full of Mario things and mechanisch. It's the story that doesn't really revolve around the main cast, they're the heroes and that's it. It's a welcome change tho IMO.
 
In terms of sales, the "problem" with Origami King isn't that it's bad or it's betraying its fans or whatever, it's just that it's not an essential Switch game. Paper Mario used to be a 90+ series on Metacritic, beloved by everyone and in the pantheon of their console's libraries. Origami King simply isn't. It's a well loved game, but its WoM and sales trajectory is closer to something like Astral Chain or a Yoshi platformer than it is one of those essential Switch games that people pick up with a new console and become an evergreen.

This is why I do think Paper Mario has untapped sales potential that Origami King couldn't reach on Switch. But for that it has to be back to being a critically acclaimed essential game. I'm not talking about going back to its roots, just the status the series used to have. But I do think the easiest way to do that is to be a great JRPG.
Not to be too much of a pedant, but Paper Mario was a 90+ series exactly once. TTYD was close but it was not the overwhelming critical darling one might think it was based on its modern reception. In fact, my brain has never let me forget the Game Informer review that scorched the game at launch (6.8/10).
 
Not to be too much of a pedant, but Paper Mario was a 90+ series exactly once. TTYD was close but it was not the overwhelming critical darling one might think it was based on its modern reception. In fact, my brain has never let me forget the Game Informer review that scorched the game at launch (6.8/10).
ngpdrew really said "TTYD started the downward trend and Origami King reverted it"


here, you dropped this 👑
 
Not to be too much of a pedant, but Paper Mario was a 90+ series exactly once. TTYD was close but it was not the overwhelming critical darling one might think it was based on its modern reception. In fact, my brain has never let me forget the Game Informer review that scorched the game at launch (6.8/10).
yeah. Paper Mario has been more a +80 series than anything else. Many games with +90 scores in the 90s would be lower today, due to much more gaming reviewers being present in the landscape.
 
87 > 80 tho, and that's the critics who are nicer.

9.1 vs 7.0 for the user scores.
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Origami King convinced me that Paper Mario could be a replacement for classic 3D Zelda. The level design and puzzles were really good imo.

But yeah, combat is where it falters (aside from bosses)
 
Origami King convinced me that Paper Mario could be a replacement for classic 3D Zelda. The level design and puzzles were really good imo.

But yeah, combat is where it falters (aside from bosses)
Feels like that would piss off even more people.
 
I hope, through replays and the spirit of remaking TTYD, both Nintendo and IS can appreciate why the first 3 (maybe 2) were great RPGs.

The Origami King was honestly great. Great story, great writing, GREAT art direction and music, but it should've been an adventure game with some platforming stomps for enemies in the overworld. Don't even pretend to be an RPG anymore; save the "turn-based spectacle" combat for big bosses and just cut the dead weight that's been hanging off the franchise since Sticker Star.
 
Something I find really interesting about this rumored remaster is how it would be received critically in this day and age, with the current state of the Paper Mario franchise being so divisive. Feels like it could be the rare remaster that outscores its original counterpart on Metacritic if they update the visuals and streamline some backtracking.
 
Something I find really interesting about this rumored remaster is how it would be received critically in this day and age, with the current state of the Paper Mario franchise being so divisive. Feels like it could be the rare remaster that outscores its original counterpart on Metacritic if they update the visuals and streamline some backtracking.
Possibly. It’s already at an 87 on Metacritic. I could see doing better than 87 because of the amount of fans that want it (or classic Paper Mario)
 
Possibly. It’s already at an 87 on Metacritic. I could see doing better than 87 because of the amount of fans that want it (or classic Paper Mario)
87 is great, no doubt. But the game has only become more esteemed in retrospect, and it could be viewed as a Prime Remastered-esque refreshing change of pace in the modern market. Obviously not a 94 MC, but maybe a 90 on the high end?
 
87 is great, no doubt. But the game has only become more esteemed in retrospect, and it could be viewed as a Prime Remastered-esque refreshing change of pace in the modern market. Obviously not a 94 MC, but maybe a 90 on the high end?
I could see 90 at the high end. Probably the famous 89 that a lot of switch games seem to get lol.
 
Origami King convinced me that Paper Mario could be a replacement for classic 3D Zelda. The level design and puzzles were really good imo.

But yeah, combat is where it falters (aside from bosses)
I'm half tempted to yeah this just for how brave it is.
 
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I am very curious how well this remake would do in terms of sales and I was a bit surprised to see that Super Paper Mario is (still) the best selling game in the series, followed by Origami King and with a big gap to the first two games.
However SPM and OK released on the most successful home systems by far so that comparison alone doesn't tell us much.

I am curious though as why people think Nintendo would chose to remake TTYD and skip the original Paper Mario entirely. it makes sense I suppose considering that the Gamecube game would need less of a graphical overhaul to be remade for the Switch. but it somehow it feels a bit "random" and maybe more like wishful thinking.

Having said that, i would LOVE to be wrong on this. it's the only game in this uneven series that I never played actually.
 
I hope if this is real they really soup up this version. I’d love more content even if its a second pit of 100 trials. Perhaps a boss rush style gauntlet. Throw in some new Emblem badges for more color variety. Even a new game plus would be really nice.
 
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TTYD is ironically the only Paper Mario game I have never had the chance to play. It’s also the only one I am actively scared to play 🤣. Though if Nintendo does release/remaster it, I’ll give it a cautious go.
 
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I am very curious how well this remake would do in terms of sales and I was a bit surprised to see that Super Paper Mario is (still) the best selling game in the series, followed by Origami King and with a big gap to the first two games.
However SPM and OK released on the most successful home systems by far so that comparison alone doesn't tell us much.

I am curious though as why people think Nintendo would chose to remake TTYD and skip the original Paper Mario entirely. it makes sense I suppose considering that the Gamecube game would need less of a graphical overhaul to be remade for the Switch. but it somehow it feels a bit "random" and maybe more like wishful thinking.

Having said that, i would LOVE to be wrong on this. it's the only game in this uneven series that I never played actually.

OG Paper Mario is readily available on NSO.
 
OG Paper Mario is readily available on NSO.

Yeah but a remake is not quite the same as the N64 ROM (with horribly clunky controls w/o the N64 Controller in particular) so I don't really see that as a reason to exclude that game from being remastered. You can also play Links Awakening on NSO or buy the remake for Switch.
 
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