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StarTopic Nintendo General Discussion |ST21 June 2023| Welcome to Famipark!

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I think this is underselling it tbh. It got strong critical acclaim and good first week sales - 3 million copies sold in a week is a position most devs would kill to be in. That's not even accounting for the fact that it's an exclusive to a platform with only ~40m units sold, or that it is a $70 game, both of which would have had some effect on sales (how much of an effect is unclear and likely not something we'll ever know, but certainly there was some effect).

The issue is one of perception. Square almost certainly hoped it would sell better than what it did, and as you and others have discussed, it certainly isn't The Main RPG Series anymore, and the sales reflect that. But I think saying it's somewhere in the middle of a breakout success and a flop kind of implies that it's near to halfway point between the two extremes, when it's really nowhere near a flop.
That's fair. The limited information we have makes comparisons difficult so we can really only look at the series' sales history and it's a pretty strong decline from XV's launch, even accounting for XVI's platform exclusivity. In that sense, I think the sales can be called "solid", nothing more and nothing less, which to me is about halfway between a flop and a breakout success. Only so far, of course.
 
Yea, I think the only way to really quantify XVI as a flop would be to also have data on the development costs
 
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Final Fantasy XVI maintains the series status quo but one of the reasons why the sales are even a big point of discussion is because Square keeps making changes to the series in an effort to grow the series. I don't think maintaining steady sales with a consistent fanbase is a bad thing but Square wants more than that and we already know their reputation for having way out of line expectations.

We're probably looking at sales being equal to Final Fantasy 15. Maybe a little less. Maybe a little higher. Not substantially different. We can look at sales relative to number of system owners, try to factor increase and all that but ultimately Square just cares about how many copies were sold to consumers and if that is growing or decreasing with each iteration of the series.
 
They do make niche games, Harvestella and Various Daylife for recent examples

Also, seems like Nintendo’s participation in the FTC trial will be private, so there goes half the fun of today’s proceedings
I meant, like, Final Fantasy. Stop trying to force it into the mainstream mold.

Obviously it won't happen, but I can dream.
 
Square Enix cannot sustain itself on only niche low budget games

it needs flagship titles like mainline Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to support the rest of its lineup

It's gonna be funny looking back on this post when Falcom buys Square Enix with their Ys profits in a few years.
 
I don't have much of a MC Horace in the FF XVI race, mostly because I don't have a PS5 to play it, but I do feel vague tinges of "let's chase the western demographic by copying X Western thing" which I feel is a poor way to appeal to anyone

I feel like a traditional FF premise would probably be more appealing globally for an FF than a GoT inspired one. But maybe that's just my general weariness of dark/dark-ish Medieval Europe inspired fantasy settings speaking (I'm glad the novel space is mostly out of the phase but it seems we're still pretty much in the thick of it for a lot of other mediums)
 
Square Enix cannot sustain itself on only niche low budget games

it needs flagship titles like mainline Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest to support the rest of its lineup
Considering both of those IP's get mainline titles every 7 years, they'll be ok.

Niche + high budget is the dangerous combination. They'll lose money on that no matter what.
 
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I'm not going to name the Nintendo podcast I'm referring to, but I REALLY hate when there is no warning of an ad break. There is a pause in the podcast (milliseconds) and then a loud ass ad.

Has everyone played the Pikmin demo? I'm still playing FF16 but I'd drop it for Pikmin 4 in a heartbeat if it came out today.

Also, ST22 is coming in hot. It's been really fun to do an OT. I can't wait to post it.
 
I'm not going to name the Nintendo podcast I'm referring to, but I REALLY hate when there is no warning of an ad break. There is a pause in the podcast (milliseconds) and then a loud ass ad.
I think this usually happens because they record without specific ad breaks in mind, then they added in later either by themselves (possibly not by choice) or their publisher/distributer
 
I think this usually happens because they record without specific ad breaks in mind, then they added in later either by themselves (possibly not by choice) or their publisher/distributer
I figured as much, it's just a bit jarring. Easy Allies lets you know when its time for ads but this particular podcast just drops them.
 
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I don't have much of a MC Horace in the FF XVI race, mostly because I don't have a PS5 to play it, but I do feel vague tinges of "let's chase the western demographic by copying X Western thing" which I feel is a poor way to appeal to anyone

I feel like a traditional FF premise would probably be more appealing globally for an FF than a GoT inspired one. But maybe that's just my general weariness of dark/dark-ish Medieval Europe inspired fantasy settings speaking (I'm glad the novel space is mostly out of the phase but it seems we're still pretty much in the thick of it for a lot of other mediums)
To be fair, while it does lean darker and more medieval fantasy than previous games, it's still very much a Final Fantasy game and has FF elements. But I understand why some people might be out of by the way they marketed the game.
 
To be fair, while it does lean darker and more medieval fantasy than previous games, it's still very much a Final Fantasy game and has FF elements. But I understand why some people might be out of by the way they marketed the game.
It might be because I generally prefer the 2D Final Fantasys but to me "medieval fantasy" is always been something I mainly associated with the franchise, so I'm a bit confused by all the talk around 16 trying to appeal to the west😅
 
It might be because I generally prefer the 2D Final Fantasys but to me "medieval fantasy" is always been something I mainly associated with the franchise, so I'm a bit confused by all the talk around 16 trying to appeal to the west😅
That's a good point lol. As someone who started with FFVII and was never huge on high fantasy settings, I had my doubts on FFXVI at first but I'm really enjoying it.
 
It might be because I generally prefer the 2D Final Fantasys but to me "medieval fantasy" is always been something I mainly associated with the franchise, so I'm a bit confused by all the talk around 16 trying to appeal to the west😅

It's not being medieval fantasy that is the point of discussion. It's them citing Game of Thrones specifically that is the point of contention. Hyper violence. Suggestions sexual violence. People liked the medieval settings of previous FF games and even the medieval politics of something like FF Tactics. But discussion is about whether that level of "mature content" is needed or wanted in a FF game. Sure you can see the difference between the Lord of the Rings movies and the Game of Thrones TV show. It's the same for FF16 vs. other games in the series.
 
annapurna showcase today! so, for the third year in a row, I find myself 100% certain that today is the day we’ll find out when Outer Wilds is coming to switch

actually this time I’m 150% certain
owned. pwned. annihilated for three years straight

great showcase though! lots of cool stuff. that photography game with the incredible title Lushfoil Photography Sim looks sick. plus a new Keita Takahashi game. plus a neat biking game. plus cocoon release date. plus the ITTA guy has the same twenty-dollar coffee maker as me.
 
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2 minutes until Annapurna showcase! I hope they deliver, unlike Devolver and Humble. I need some dates!
Aaaand I got two: Cocoon and Thirsty Suitors. No news on Outer Wilds or Solar Ash. And none of the new games are launching on Switch. Pretty disappointing.
Oh hell yeah, more people get to enjoy Stray!
I'd like to enjoy it as well. I'll try it on Game Pass but it needs to be on Switch for me to actually finish it.
 
Aaaand I got two: Cocoon and Thirsty Suitors. No news on Outer Wilds or Solar Ash. And none of the new games are launching on Switch. Pretty disappointing.

I'd like to enjoy it as well. I'll try it on Game Pass but it needs to be on Switch for me to actually finish it.
It's not very long, I would recommend seeing you can get through it
 
They do make niche games, Harvestella and Various Daylife for recent examples

Also, seems like Nintendo’s participation in the FTC trial will be private, so there goes half the fun of today’s proceedings
What a shame

Would have loved seeing Nintendo being all confident and telling the FTC “Sir, sit your shitposting ass down and read our lips: the Switch is the marketleader and if we want Call of Duty, you can bet your flabby backside that we want it good”

But Mr Nintendo we haven’t said anything yet

“And we’ll keep it that way until our part ends”
 
Keita Takahashi's new game !!!!!

What's up with Takahashi making his newer games exclusive to a single console (as well as PC, of course)? Wattam was exclusive to PS4 (as far as I'm aware?) and now toaT is exclusive to Xbox.

Just seems weird to not release these games on all consoles -- including Switch. Hell, I would guess the Switch's audience would be most receptive of all to Takahashi's games at this point. Yet Switch never seems to enter the picture...
 
What's up with Takahashi making his newer games exclusive to a single console (as well as PC, of course)? Wattam was exclusive to PS4 (as far as I'm aware?) and now toaT is exclusive to Xbox.

Just seems weird to not release these games on all consoles -- including Switch. Hell, I would guess the Switch's audience would be most receptive of all to Takahashi's games at this point. Yet Switch never seems to enter the picture...
This game being an Xbox exclusive makes me think Microsoft paid for it. It will definitely come to Switch/PS5 after. I don't see this game skipping the Switch audience, as you said it's the perfect fit.
 
They do make niche games, Harvestella and Various Daylife for recent examples

Also, seems like Nintendo’s participation in the FTC trial will be private, so there goes half the fun of today’s proceedings
"So, would you say that you compete with Sony and Microsoft?"

"Yes."

"I... euh... I see. Do you consider the Nintendo Switch a console?"

"Yes."

...

...

"YOUR HONOR I REQUEST A RECESS SO I MAY RECONSIDER MY ENTIRE STRATEGY."
 
Can you believe that it's been over 9 years since this?



This has basically been the main Link for 9 years. Two mainline games that are the biggest in the series. One Warriors spinoff. Lots of waiting but the highest highs the series has ever experienced.
 
Let us dispel the false dichotomy that Final Fantasy must choose between being a niche indie game made for traditional fans and weebs and a big budget AAA game with more global appeal. There is literally nothing stopping them from making a game that does and satisfies both. Most arguments creating this weird schism seem to be completely based on false assumptions from focus group testing rather than them repeatedly failing when attempting to make a game that actually does that.

I'm not going to argue about what FFXVI is or isn't or how unfinal fantasy like or final fantasyish it is in practice but really going by the interviews, media hype I don't really know what to say other than that the developers at times gave off major "Jack Skellington wants to be Santa and king of Christmas town" vibes.

I'm not criticizing the game for what it does or what it actually is but it felt like Square went out of their way to suck the wind from the sails of traditional Final Fantasy fans from day one who might have wanted to go into this hoping "hey maybe I'll like this one actually", with a total "this ain't your Dad's Final Fantasy" energy. On one hand there is arguing why they think their new combat system is cool and the best one to go with and then theres " Old Final Fantasy sux bro. It's 2023 we can't have a game where you just like click on menus and stuff"

If we want to be that reductionist about those game's combat then new final fantasy is just mashing X to win. Obviously it's so much more than that but reducing classic Final Fantasy to "clicking on menus", says to me that they don't really even understand what made those games good, why they became a global phenomenon or how you would even go about making a game that bridges the gap between those games and modern conventions in a successful way that makes everyone happy.
 
I'm honestly surprised as to how much it focused on CoD (could just be the stuff that got public), I assumed that was just a minor concern 🤔
 


press x to doubt

(cloud, Hexen, etc.)

But seriously yes the focus on Call of Duty is annoying. Because really the amount of classic IPs MS is going to have is just absolutely staggering. I saw someone from the FTC tried to argue that they should sell off Call of Duty for this deal to go through (lol), but really I think the opposite. Let them keep Call of Duty because it's clear that they intend to use that IP, where as countless other series that so many other developers would jump at the chance of making are totally going to be lost in the shuffle and into the dungeon with Banjo and Conker. Force them to sell off all the IPs they clearly are never going to use and let them keep the ones they actually want I think that would be better for the industry.
 
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Good IGN article on the trial : https://www.ign.com/articles/the-ftc-trial-unmasks-xboxs-ambitions

(cloud, Hexen, etc.)

But seriously yes the focus on Call of Duty is annoying. Because really the amount of classic IPs MS is going to have is just absolutely staggering. I saw someone from the FTC tried to argue that they should sell off Call of Duty for this deal to go through (lol), but really I think the opposite. Let them keep Call of Duty because it's clear that they intend to use that IP, where as countless other series that so many other developers would jump at the chance of making are totally going to be lost in the shuffle and into the dungeon with Banjo and Conker. Force them to sell off all the IPs they clearly are never going to use and let them keep the ones they actually want I think that would be better for the industry.
my (very) optimistic take on this is that, considering the fact that most Activision studios now work on Call of Duty Warzone, some of them may be « freed » by Microsoft if the acquisition happens, and they could potentially work on some IPs that Microsoft doesn’t use.
"Wow, absolutely no one gives a flying fuck about our work, huh?"
I mean…
IMG-9967.jpg

(Obviously there’s also the Blizzard part who is much more successful and often forgotten, I get your point)
 
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