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Deleted member 341
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"here Playtonic guys, have this huge pile of cash and 100 additional developers, Tanabe will oversee you guys."
2D DK poofs out of thin air 1 year later
2D DK poofs out of thin air 1 year later
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StarTopic Nintendo First Party Software Development |ST| Nintendo Party Superstars
- Thread starter astrogamer
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Yes, it obviously would have taken some time. I don't see anyone arguing otherwise? I'm not sure why you're trying to strawman an admittedly highly hypothetical scenario to death.
Nintendo literally helped someone start up a studio who used it for his sex parties and then had to buy him out. They've thrown better money at worse.
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Deleted member 341
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You start questioning my rationality behind my opinion, so I question yours, easy as that. Its a forum.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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for the uninformed, here Dardan is of course referring to Raccoon Enterprises, the venture I founded with the promise of annual Tomodachi games
four years on we're still working on 3
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I'm not even advocating for Nintendo making Playtonic a 1st party studio lol
I think an external dev arrangement has potential. It doesn't need to be a big AAA DK, but having a smaller experience reminiscent of classic DKC1/2/3 I think would be a win for the fans with the team being afforded the guidance of NCL and a better budget. People wrote off MercurySteam and also wrote off Ubisoft making a Mario game, so I don't think it's reasonable to write off another western team and say they don't have the chops before they'd ever have that opportunity to prove themselves.
I think an external dev arrangement has potential. It doesn't need to be a big AAA DK, but having a smaller experience reminiscent of classic DKC1/2/3 I think would be a win for the fans with the team being afforded the guidance of NCL and a better budget. People wrote off MercurySteam and also wrote off Ubisoft making a Mario game, so I don't think it's reasonable to write off another western team and say they don't have the chops before they'd ever have that opportunity to prove themselves.
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By putting words into my mouth? Okay then, great talk!
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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PlayTonic's DKC spoof is pretty highly regarded, right? If Nintendo wants to go that way I don't see how it could be construed as a bad option.
It definitely is part of the fork in the road for Nintendo. Do they continue to expand their external relations, leaving internal developers to work on only the most important projects, or do they try to expand internal resources enough to take on more projects even as development costs balloon? There isn't an obvious choice there, though I've generally aligned with the latter in the past.
I think it's fair to say that the future of 2D Metroid lies outside the company. Is Donkey Kong too good for a similar arrangement? Despite its historic significance I would say not.
It definitely is part of the fork in the road for Nintendo. Do they continue to expand their external relations, leaving internal developers to work on only the most important projects, or do they try to expand internal resources enough to take on more projects even as development costs balloon? There isn't an obvious choice there, though I've generally aligned with the latter in the past.
I think it's fair to say that the future of 2D Metroid lies outside the company. Is Donkey Kong too good for a similar arrangement? Despite its historic significance I would say not.
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I think you could do both as well. Having an external team make essentially a "Donkey Kong Mania" type project shouldn't preclude Nintendo from going big with the IP either. Having a steady stream of games is ultimately better for rebuilding interest in the franchise than taking decade long naps.
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Deleted member 341
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You made it sound like Nintendo would be better off if they just gave Playtonic resources. Sorry for misinterpreting your comments then.
Don't wanna endlessly discuss this. I just didn't get the discussion in the first place because to me DK is one of the most important franchises. And I would love DK to be at a premier EPD studio if Retro has no resources to spare.
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Deleted member 341
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I didn't really say its too good, All I said was that Playtonic hasn't the resources and growing a company out of 6 ex-rare devs would be unrealistic.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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it's worth noting that the last DK game came out an astounding eight and a half years ago. technically it's deader than Chibi-Robo!
"too good" should be in scare quotes anyway
yeah, I'm speaking more generally now
"too good" should be in scare quotes anyway
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
Some people really want this fantasy of these small indie studios to work on these big Nintendo games. Nintendo won’t invest the money into it for good reasons. This is a business not a dream.
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Deleted member 341
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A DKC in the style of Sonic Mania would be great, but I wouldn't want that as the future of the franchise if you get what I mean, didn't we discuss the future for the series?
Quote:"I still feel like PlayTonic could have become a good new home for Donkey Kong had Nintendo tried to court them early on but I guess
either was interested enough in it to make it happen and now it's probably too late."oh yeah we did
Blue Monty
Inkling
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Not only they have over 100 people but they are The studio in Spain and have both governmental help and other studios that act as a support.
Earthbounder
Boing!
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I'd love for Nintendo to take a hybrid approach to both Donkey Kong and Zelda, having different companies taking care of the 2-D and 3-D installments of those series.
Nintendo would obviously handle the 3-D Zelda games, but the other three could be given to external partners. Retro has proved they can make an awesome 2-D Donkey Kong. Capcom has produced great 2-D Zelda games. And Rare did very well with Donkey Kong 64. So there is a bit of history in that regard, even if Rare is not an option anymore. But maybe that's where PlayTonic could come in handy.
But this is obviously crazy fantasy that will never happen. I refuse to get my hopes up.
Nintendo would obviously handle the 3-D Zelda games, but the other three could be given to external partners. Retro has proved they can make an awesome 2-D Donkey Kong. Capcom has produced great 2-D Zelda games. And Rare did very well with Donkey Kong 64. So there is a bit of history in that regard, even if Rare is not an option anymore. But maybe that's where PlayTonic could come in handy.
But this is obviously crazy fantasy that will never happen. I refuse to get my hopes up.
Blue Monty
Inkling
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Will be so funny when they reveal a Pikmin anime series using as a basis the shorts style while people are expecting a Zelda/FE/XC anime
Blue Monty
Inkling
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Most of the guys inside Capcom that made Zelda games got poached by Nintendo already btwI'd love for Nintendo to take a hybrid approach to both Donkey Kong and Zelda, having different companies taking care of the 2-D and 3-D installments of those series.
Nintendo would obviously handle the 3-D Zelda games, but the other three could be given to external partners. Retro has proved they can make an awesome 2-D Donkey Kong. Capcom has produced great 2-D Zelda games. And Rare did very well with Donkey Kong 64. So there is a bit of history in that regard, even if Rare is not an option anymore. But maybe that's where PlayTonic could come in handy.
But this is obviously crazy fantasy that will never happen. I refuse to get my hopes up.
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Deleted member 341
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THIS is a best case scenario
Nathan Little
Paratroopa
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It should be said Playtonic has grown exponentially since the Tencent investment. I don't think they are quite a 100 person team yet, but they definitely have more than 6 people.
And yeah, MonkEPD and a hypothetical Playtonic DK could coexist. Just because one is in development doesn't mean the other can't happen.
And yeah, MonkEPD and a hypothetical Playtonic DK could coexist. Just because one is in development doesn't mean the other can't happen.
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Deleted member 341
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Earthbounder
Boing!
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Oh, I didn't know that. Well, I assumed many of them were not in Capcom anymore. It's been almost two decades since The Minish Cap, after all. But I didn't know they were eventually hired by Nintendo. If those guys are still inside Nintendo, I say get them together to form a team dedicated to 2D Zelda.
They are inside nintendo, is the same team that make BotW
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For the record, because I feel like it's been lost in this back and forth, a new DK would absolutely have the potential sales/popularity to justify a take by an EPD team.
I was just thinking that given enough time and resources PlayTonic could have made a good if not great entry. Impossible Lair was really good despite being presumably made on a shoestring budget. So it stands to reason that Nintendo's guiding hand and deep pockets could have helped them reach even higher. I don't think I've ever implied that this should have absolutely happened or else! in any of my posts.
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Deleted member 341
Guest
I get your opinion on this. I really do. To explain my point of view again:
Tropical Freeze set a extremely high bar gameplay wise and presentation wise.
A smaller scale title would be possible by a new founded studio from Indy devs and maybe even amazing as Sonic Mania showed.
I just don't think it should be the future or the main thing for such a historical franchise.
It should be more of a "in-between the big thing"....ehh thing.
DK should have a bigger budget imo because good luck selling a first party game for 60 Dollars when it isn't in the same ballpark as Tropical Freeze.
EDIT:
2D Zelda is a pretty good example of this as mentioned by folks.
Blue Monty
Inkling
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In Capcom case it seems though they poach half of their employees lol
Skyward Sword and Breath of the Wild's director was the director for all of Capcom's Zelda games
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Deleted member 341
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looking at this Pikmin has to be Miyamotos favorite IP lol
Earthbounder
Boing!
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Since we are talking about Impossible Lair, I'd like to take this opportunity to praise the absurdly clever overworld design that game had.
As far as 2-D platformers go, it's the biggest step forward in overworld design since Super Mario World. It's a shame it doesn't get the recognition it deserves because the game that did it was relatively small.
I don't like Skyward Sword as much as the other ones he directed, but they are all at least 9/10 in my book.
As far as 2-D platformers go, it's the biggest step forward in overworld design since Super Mario World. It's a shame it doesn't get the recognition it deserves because the game that did it was relatively small.
You learn something new every day! It's no wonder I greatly love those games so much.
I don't like Skyward Sword as much as the other ones he directed, but they are all at least 9/10 in my book.
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Oh yeah, they absolutely can't go back from what Tropical Freeze did and I don't think PlayTonic as they exist today would be a good fit to relatively quickly made a new DK game either. Thus that highly hypothetical scenario.
Nathan Little
Paratroopa
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If Impossible Lair was a DKC game, I would rank it as my third favorite in the series with DKC2 and Tropical Freeze just above it. That's just how good that game is.
Blue Monty
Inkling
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He is also the de facto successor of Aonuma after he retires as the head of the franchise
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Deleted member 341
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the dude is talented for sure. I wonder what the Zelda after TP could have looked like if they didn't have to reboot it after Nintendo showed them the Wii Motion Plus. Its no secret that Skyward Sword was rushed.
EDIT: maybe rushed is the wrong word. But it definietly had some developement problems as far as I remember.
Mr Doggo
Anti oof
Lmao. I think they said TF's cinematic budget was higher than their game's entire budget lol
Gingerbread Man
Paratroopa
TP had a more problematic development, with the appointed director going nowhere with the project and Aonuma stepping in to save the ship. With SS, more than a problem with the game itself, I think they had problems with the direction the series was supposed to take.
TP was the best-selling Zelda game at the time (counting Wii + GC sales). Every other company would have made a TP - Part 2. But TP itself already was, for all the intent and purpose, OoT - Part 2 -- a very traditional Zelda game. But before and after the release, Miyamoto showed a slight dissatisfaction with it (before: "It's going to be the last Zelda as we know it"; after: "good but not amazing, something is missing").
So, the Zelda Team was in an awkward position -- they wanted to take the series in new directions, but at the same time the traditional game they just released was selling like gangbusters (especially outside of Japan). They were also wary not to betray "the essence of Zelda" -- which, on one hand, makes perfect sense; on the other, they focused too much on minutiae -- IIRC in the Iwata Ask of Spirit Tracks, someone defined the essence of Zelda as the jingle you can hear opening a chest (which, I mean, it is iconic, but...), and they were very, very afraid with the train idea. Compare this spirit with BotW "an alien invasion" concept -- they are day and night.
I assume there were a lot of prototypes and scrapped ideas behind the scene, which led to a 5-year gap between TP and SS -- a lot of time for an SD game sharing the engine with the previous instalment. The end result was their first attempt to leave the OoT formula behind, focussing more on the puzzles. ALBW and BoTW were a second attempt, made with a similar spirit but focusing on the openness of the world instead, and with a team less cautious not to betray the series' conventions.
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MasterGold
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Do we know who TP original director was. I always assumed it was Aonuma didn’t know he took over during development
Nintendo don't have enough studios, incredible how two such prestigious IP such as DK and Metroid seemingly have to be on rotation.
Then you have Starfox and Pikmin in the chaos tier, you'll be lucky to get one every five years.
They need a banter studio to put AA-tier games in series such as 1080, WaveRace, PunchOut etc on rotation.
Then you have Starfox and Pikmin in the chaos tier, you'll be lucky to get one every five years.
They need a banter studio to put AA-tier games in series such as 1080, WaveRace, PunchOut etc on rotation.
we do, but I can't find their name. if I remember correctly he left the industry after leaving the role
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Nintendo are in the middle of expansion, so we'll have to see how things look in a few years i'd say.
The good thing about Star Fox and Pikmin in particular, though, is that they'll always find their way back eventually. Nothing to be concerned about with DK either honestly; he'll be back in a brand new game eventually with the theme park and film on the way.
The good thing about Star Fox and Pikmin in particular, though, is that they'll always find their way back eventually. Nothing to be concerned about with DK either honestly; he'll be back in a brand new game eventually with the theme park and film on the way.
Starfox is in huge trouble post-Miyamoto. Nintendo have no idea what to do with it, and suggesting “giving it a good budget” will have you thrown out of the boardroom window in no time.
the obvious thing to do with it is stop trying to make rail shooters a thing with the money they throw at it
make furry mass effect instead
Take it back to strategy imo. Command was the best Starfox I've played, and 2 had some cool ideas too. Not to mention it's a genre almost entirely unrepresented by Nintendo.
SirArthur
Kremling
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Second that. Its there, "copy the homework", no sure about the "feature" fans love but work something around that
Mr Doggo
Anti oof
Metroid still gets lucky because nintendo constantly pushes it in hopes they get a "on steroids version of metroid prime's success", perfect for the more hardcore market.
Sadly none of these franchises have the prestige or... luck metroid (within nintendo) has had. Star fox has literally no vision and everything they do is a rehash of older games with miyamoto's newest bad idea.
That was NST decades ago but... yeah. I hope someone else fills the void.
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I've been saying for a while that they need to distract Miyamoto with a VR Star Fox attraction while they toil away at a new console game in secret.
MasterGold
Cappy
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Haven’t they been doing that but with theme parks and movies instead
