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be careful what you wish for
Mario vs Donkey Kong 6, 29,99€ eShop exclusive, only title Nintendo have in stores for the holidays
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Rumour Nikkei source: Next-gen Nintendo console development "progressing well" but will not launch until Spring 2024 at the earliest
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Mario vs Donkey Kong 6, 29,99€ eShop exclusive, only title Nintendo have in stores for the holidays
Dcubed
Paratroopa
I really hope that they're not aiming for a November 2024 release at this point... I don't think they can last out that long with the current Switch.
Also PS5 Pro will be launching at around that time and they're gonna get crushed by it as developers move their rendering targets once again. They had better be scrapping the current "Drake" model and moving onto Lovelace-based NVidia hardware, because that the current Ampere-based Drake isn't gonna cut it when developers move onto PS5 Pro.
Thems the perils of waiting too long to release a successor. Now you have to deal with not just the PS5 & Series X, but their enhanced Pro versions too!
Also PS5 Pro will be launching at around that time and they're gonna get crushed by it as developers move their rendering targets once again. They had better be scrapping the current "Drake" model and moving onto Lovelace-based NVidia hardware, because that the current Ampere-based Drake isn't gonna cut it when developers move onto PS5 Pro.
Thems the perils of waiting too long to release a successor. Now you have to deal with not just the PS5 & Series X, but their enhanced Pro versions too!
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TanookiTom
Tektite
What a no-info thing to report. Nikkei has a bad track record of reporting on Nintendo hardware in general.
Mekanos
おっす！
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It's possible. My thinking is twofold:
-Even if this game inevitably reuses a lot of assets from Ultimate, it will still take a minimum of 3 years to make, probably closer to 4 with what we can expect from Switch 2 specs. So even if pre-production started in late 2021, that is a tight window.
-Sakurai is currently making goofy YouTube videos on a daily basis, which does not strike me as something you have time to do when you're deep into development on a major flagship video game. Now, obviously Sakurai might not be director, he might be in a different role, or somehow not be on the game at all. But knowing how he is with the series, I would be very surprised if he's not involved in the next Smash at all.
With all of this it's really hard for me to picture a 2024 Smash game. Even 2025 seems a little optimistic to me. The only scenario I think it would happen is if it's just Super Smash Ultimate Turbo. But I think Smash is too valuable as an IP for Nintendo to be happy with just a dressed up rerelease, especially when Switch 2 will likely be BC. I expect it to be another new game, even if it's just an iterative one.
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3D Mario absolutely makes the most sense as a day one title; it has that mixture of commercial reach and critical acclaim that'll drive wide awareness for the new console and which'll excite the early adopters. I'm also agreed with a lot of people here that aiming for either new Smash or new Kart in the first year is important; I don't think they need both, but they obviously drive (tee hee) hardware adoption and brand awareness, and that mix of genres is important.
That's what's worked with Switch in the long run. Generally I think you can guess at 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Pokemon, and Smash as tentpoles for years 1 and 2. The more interesting points for me would be the timing for things like Luigi's Mansion 4, the next Animal Crossing, and a potential cross-gen Tomodachi. Perhaps one of those makes year 1 or 2; Next Level should have something ready in 2025, I'd think.
The other, even more interesting aspect is: what about the genuinely new stuff, or the deep cut reboots or revivals of IP? Nintendo still took a bunch of risks in the first 2 to 3 years of Switch: 1-2 Switch, Labo, Ring Fit, ARMS, Sushi Striker and Astral Chain all landed within the first 3 years.
That's what's worked with Switch in the long run. Generally I think you can guess at 3D Mario, Mario Kart, Mario Party, Pokemon, and Smash as tentpoles for years 1 and 2. The more interesting points for me would be the timing for things like Luigi's Mansion 4, the next Animal Crossing, and a potential cross-gen Tomodachi. Perhaps one of those makes year 1 or 2; Next Level should have something ready in 2025, I'd think.
The other, even more interesting aspect is: what about the genuinely new stuff, or the deep cut reboots or revivals of IP? Nintendo still took a bunch of risks in the first 2 to 3 years of Switch: 1-2 Switch, Labo, Ring Fit, ARMS, Sushi Striker and Astral Chain all landed within the first 3 years.
Dcubed
Paratroopa
That is exactly what will happen. There's nowhere else for the series to go now, they can't possibly make a satisfactory sequel to a game that essentially spent 9 years in development. It's impossible.
You will get Super Smash Bros Ultimate Special (with the missing stages added back in and the game now running in 4K), and you will like it.
A few years later, you'll get Super Smash Bros Melee HD (gameplay & visuals mostly unchanged, except now running in 4K and with online play & new options/features aimed at TOs and competitive players), designed to appeal to the eSports/FGC crowd. And that's it for Smash.
It's the only reasonable path forward.
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Just to make sure, I'm not saying it won't hinder some devs and that it will have all the third party support in the world, but you realize even if there's a PS5 Pro devs still will have to launch versions for the regular PS5, and even the Series S, right?
Dcubed
Paratroopa
Of course, but it'll be yet another excuse for developers and publishers to handwave the platform away for "not being powerful enough".
Truth be told, any current game could be downported to Switch if the developer and publisher incentive was there. The point is that Nintendo need to give enough incentive to push 3rd parties to make those ports and stop making excuses to avoid their platforms.
As a bit of a tangent, the new Pro consoles will also probably mark the end of 60FPS on the current base consoles; as they start targetting 30FPS as standard and the 60FPS modes become Pro console exclusive features... which makes Switch 2 ports all the harder.
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n i n t e n d o g s
I would be pretty surprised if the new Switch didn’t have cameras and a mic array amongst its new features.
I think that’d make a great “Wave 2” game a few months after launch, maybe around Golden Week like the original. (In this case it’d release almost exactly 20 years after the original, in fact. Now excuse me while I crumble into dust.)
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As I said, I'm not saying it will not hinder, make harder or anything, Switch 2 will no doubt have to be a couple of steps back even from Series S, unless Nintendo wants to release a $800 (or something like that) hybrid console.
But I don't think that a PS5 Pro releasing next year is the thing that's going to make it or bust it, I believe that the capability of the machine running the newest engines and it's tools, and things like that will weight more. In the end of the day devs still have to make it work on a Series S and lower end computers.
Of course the beefier and easier it's to port will make more devs will risk a version for the console I fully agree with it, just that the Pro being what breaks it is what I'm not sure, specially because there's still many things we don't know about [REDACTED].
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Yeah, Nintendogs is one I expect to come back assuming the hardware has the features for it; but I also wonder if that's best saved for slightly later into the system's life, when the audience is bigger and you've not primarily sold to enthusiasts. I think Nintendogs had a better immediate shot at success on DS because DS was a very affordable device from day one. The Switch successor is likely going to be even higher in price than OLED, and very likely difficult to find in the first year; I'm not convinced Nintendogs would hit the target audience in those circumstances.
I think it makes a lot of sense in the next generation - and that AR generally might be something Nintendo play around with on new hardware - but I don't think it needs to be there year 1.
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That’s true, we know Nintendogs wasn’t the game that got everybody to run out and buy $250 3DSes. It probably is more of an Animal Crossing/Pokémon-style “release this after the Switch 2 Lite” thing.
D
Deleted member 1896
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I just hope they completely nail b/c. Take the time to iron out all the kinks if needed.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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So you want them to scrap the current design and go for a even more powerful one because of PS5 Pro/Series X2? You know that's basically asking for a 2025/2026 release, right? These things, they take time.
Switch was also released in 2017, after the PS4 Pro and same year as One X. It's massively outclassed compared to these two and still did fine. If the specs for the Drake SoC are correct, them the new model will be able to slot into 3rd-parties multiplatform development pipeline without much issues and will do a better job than Switch was ever able to. Not matter what, Switch is a concept that will always be TDP and form-factor constrained. It will never compete with PS and XB and Nintendo shouldn't focus on this.
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Neither of y'all are wrong. I took the time to reflect and yeah the news of this thread definitely brought out the worst of me, and I apologize.
Yes I'm frustrated with lack of news surrounding this hardware, and the way I responded was more dramatic than necessary. It's gonna be expensive, it's gonna be a shitshow trying to get one, and that manifested poorly when I'm still gonna be making every effort to get one at launch (unless it's more than $450 USD because I need long term reviews to know it had some actual build quality control unlike the current joycons).
I just hope this wait results in a device that's worthwhile
D
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I'd like to mention that I didn't mean to specifically target you with my comment, as I had just hopped into the thread and read some commentary about pessimism in general and was responding to that. If I have something to say about someone, I @ them. So I apologize for implying nobody wants to hang out with you... funnily enough you're one of the people on this website I feel like could hang.
Regardless, nothing you said above is wrong.... unfortunately it is going to be more expensive, it is going to be a shitshow trying to get one, and it won't be up to par with modern "next-gen" hardware and we'll be salivating over finally playing Nintendo games at a base PS4 level (which, let's face it, still sounds too good to be true).
All I want is for games to continue chasing their current vision and scope without all the framedrops and low resolutions... and a Dark Souls 3 / Bloodborne port...
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No need to apologize. I think you're absolutely right about these worries because that's just the state of hardware these days. My point was more that it's not really worth it to get disappointed or worked up in advance over something we have very limited information on. If it turns out to be true you're just going to be disappointed again later, even if you're right. But maybe that's just me.
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Water under the bridge, and the feeling is mutual
Still, it's something I do want to work on myself rather than giving in to base instinct over expecting disappointment from Nintendo.And that's just it, game development is well and beyond what's seemingly capable for the current Switch and it seems a shame that now I have to decide between PS5 or Xbox to get a more rounded console library. I'm just gonna be annoyed that when I finally drop the bills on whatever I decide, that's when Nintendo is gonna announce and give me all of six weeks to save up for it
I almost feel that Nintendo brought back enough 3rd party support to show with this Switch they can have a healthy console ecosystem, and whatever this next console is if they're successful like before, will blow our current expectations out the water. Like, dang, believing that a Switch 2 could not only competently run GTAVI but also simultaneous release with PS/Xbox and maybe even crossplay/progression...
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You're absolutely right, and truthfully ever since I heard that phrase back in high school I kinda hated how much it resonated with me (which is probably some base symptom of anxiety that's undiagnosed lol). Yeah, developing and maintaining a console is difficult and I suppose there's just as much worry on the consumer side that we're buying something that will have longterm support as it is a platform holder that people want to buy your compelling product. But, there's only a certain amount of worry that's needed for the future when there's plenty in the present that needs our attention and focus (like new Zelda) haha
Shadow14
Hoot hoot
I wouldn't worry about developers moving into Ps5 Pro; the support that Ps4 Pro got was more of an afterthought than anything.
Developers know the base version of the consoles will always have more users than the Pro version of it; and if they're releasing on Xbox, then they also need to take in account the Series S.
Mekanos
おっす！
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Uh huh. Whatever you say.
Nah, I'm pretty much done with the 4/ultimate era of smash. Played that way too much and I want something new and fresh. I don't care if it has a smaller roster or less stages. Give me something with new ideas and mechanics. Ultimate isn't going anywhere, this just sounds like the attitude the melee people have who don't want anything but melee.
Speaking of that theybarent doing melee hd, lol. They don't give a fuck about the melee community/tos/competitive scene nor should they. Even if they did the melee people would turn their noses up at it anyway and stick with their gamecubes/wiis running a pirated copy of melee hooked up to an aging crt.
No matter how faithful of a port Nintendo did the melee people would find some reason to dismiss it, they aren't changing anything about their setups.
I'm right there with you. I want a smaller roster with more love given to other things. Also, please fix some of the movesets for older characters haha.
I know people are going to be pressed if the roster is cut to 40-50 but it is what it is. And there are still plenty of new characters that can be added to bring up the hype for every direct Nintendo has lol.
Djehuty
Koopa
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A rerelease would be weird, why would a casual get it when they already have ultimate? Nobody is paying 70$ for a couple new cha
Rafters, if they realese the new characters as dlc for the old one then what’s even the point?
And smash fans would defintly not want ultimate but again, the latter dlc characters were Bassicaly bombs to the community, (Steve and kazuya) the fanbase is ready to move on at this point.
Making a game with like 60 characters but an actual story mode and other features would probably be smarter, for a series loaded with other features modes and general goodies smash ultimate had nothing.
Johna X
Boo
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The difference is Melee didn't sell 30 million copies
Everyone is here won't happen again, but the roster will be 55 minimum and will include every EPD character from Ultimate, I'm pretty confident in this
Johna X
Boo
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Also the reason I said stuff about Sakurai is because EPD is always emphasizing letting younger devs onto projects and having them even play a bigger role, there's very much an active push for setting up the future blood of series
As far as everything we've heard, Sakurai has no Koizumi to his Miyamoto, like the way he said "it's hard to imagine a smash being made without me being possible" I get the impression he has not done much to prepare the future, and kind of essentializes himself to the game. At the very least I think he would play a very active role in the next one, if he doesn't outright make it. This is not coming from a position of being some Sakurai fanboy, most of the characters I've been really excited for don't seem to be that much cause of him, though I obviously respect his passion none the less, but just practicality wise I don't see a pipeline for him to check out yet. With this next game, if he hasn't already been doing so behind the scenes, there needs to be an effort for someone to take the reigns next time. But as I said I don't get the impression that has been properly prepared yet.
As far as everything we've heard, Sakurai has no Koizumi to his Miyamoto, like the way he said "it's hard to imagine a smash being made without me being possible" I get the impression he has not done much to prepare the future, and kind of essentializes himself to the game. At the very least I think he would play a very active role in the next one, if he doesn't outright make it. This is not coming from a position of being some Sakurai fanboy, most of the characters I've been really excited for don't seem to be that much cause of him, though I obviously respect his passion none the less, but just practicality wise I don't see a pipeline for him to check out yet. With this next game, if he hasn't already been doing so behind the scenes, there needs to be an effort for someone to take the reigns next time. But as I said I don't get the impression that has been properly prepared yet.
Melee players (tournament players at least) just want a straight HD port. We just want to play in an HD TV/ Monitor that has a very similar response to a CRT. We already have some setups with adapters and Software mods, but the Melee community would love a faithful port to finally ditch CRTs.
About online, the Melee community will complain when its not up their standards but then return to Slippi to play online. But the important thing is having Melee with no lag in HD for tournaments (without mods or adapters). It would open more monitor support from some sponsors.
I would not mind a new mode with a rebalanced roster/meta, but still keep the "Normal" Melee mode.
Best you're getting is emulated Melee.
AxkilAvenger
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Is this the most definitive statement we’ve had from Nintendo on their next gen console?
I don't think I said anything about a rerelease game or old characters as DLC. I wouldn't want that to be honest.
As for your last point, that's what I'm saying. I think a bigger story mode and more features that are deeper is the way to go.
I'd love to see new movesets. Mario needs his redone entirely, but most characters could stand to have their movesets revamped, so many new games have come about and could be better implemented. I'd also love to see things like the meter for final smashes implemented properly and for characters to have that as a regular ability. I'm sure there are other things that can be done to make the series feel new and exciting again that someone more creative than me can come up with.
I'd also like to see the next game focus more on newcomers. It would be really incredible for the reveal trailer to have a few indie game characters make their debuts, like having Shovel Knight, Shantae, and Cuphead all in the reveal trailer would be cool.
Even a really good solid port I don't truly believe would move the needle. There would be something that most melee players would object to. Some of the games glitches might not work anymore, the game might have a tiny bit more lag, etc.
As a Mario main I agree. His moveset is pretty bad compared to so many of the in-depth ones that we saw in Ultimate. I'm not saying Mario should be complicated but Fludd? Come on now.
If the game retains advanced techniques, then it should be fine (99% of the them are results of the physics engine, not glitches).
You have Melee players, but you also have Melee tournament organizers (TOs). And they would love to not to carry CRTs (we are getting older) and free more space in tournament venues (space can be very expensive).
If Melee TOs and top players play this port in tournament, the rest of players should follow in my experience
Hahaha yeah, probably
I hope even on NSO, the experience (lag, response time) can be CRT like
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Honestly I think emulated Melee is probably closer to what the competitive community would actually want than any actual port would be anyway.Hahaha yeah, probably
I hope even on NSO, the experience (lag, response time) can be CRT like
GamerJM
Chain Chomp
The Melee community mostly runs a slightly modded version of Melee called UCF that fixes controller polling problems. Another permutation of this mod that's now often ran freezes Pokemon Stadium (to prevent the transformations). The mod is so minor that it's basically undetectable; it was even run at some events that Nintendo sponsored (though they had to start not mentioning it anywhere in the tournament's documentation, to prevent Nintendo from striking down). However, the polling issues the game has without UCF are significant enough that top players consider non-UCF events scuffed. Also, even an emulated version of Melee would on Switch online would likely have some kind of an input buffer looking at Nintendo's other releases, which would make it inferior. And the fact that its online would be inferior to that of Slippi with no rollback netcode would also make it a no-go for people engaging in playing it online.
The only way I could see them avoiding these pitfalls is if they hired people like Fizzi and PracticalTAS who developed stuff like UCF and Slippi, which is not happening given the antagonistic relationship they have with that part of the scene.
The only way I could see them avoiding these pitfalls is if they hired people like Fizzi and PracticalTAS who developed stuff like UCF and Slippi, which is not happening given the antagonistic relationship they have with that part of the scene.
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fourfourfun
Moblin
That's at least a window for another 3 pokemon games too.
RingoGaSuki
Moblin
Yeah, holiday 2024 or March 2025 has been my guess for a while now. Not surprising at all
This is what cracks me up. You'd think with how rampant Switch emulation and games leaking and being pirated early are, Nintendo would want to end this generation asap to move on to something that wasn't already picked to the nine by the home brew community and pc emulation community.
RaymondBryce
Octorok
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This statement isn't from Nintendo, so no.
thoughthaver
Chain Chomp
pirating doesnt really have an effect on sales, its mostly nerds online trying to own nintendo.
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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Despite this - which isn't anything new, 2021 Dread was being even reported by Kotaku to be emulated, but there was Switch functional emulation way earlier - they've just released a Pokemon game that sold 21m units in 6 weeks, BotW(which was the "prime emulated game" on CEMU) sold 30m, TotK is gonna sell at the very least 20m at 70$.
I think what people don't really realize is that piracy/emulation of Switch games is not comparable at all to PS1/PS2 ones, since we can't clearly see it affecting software sales.
The main point of that being: you gonna need a PC that costs like 10 times a Switch to have the games running at 4K or higher frame rates.
You can count on your hand the amount of people that are actually playing TotK on their super expensive PCs now.
Just getting the game and playing it natively on your 199/299/349 console is a) more comfortable; b) way less expensive than getting a high end PC and filling it with software that can crash it if it's not powerful enough or look and play awful.
I'm not saying Nintendo ain't worried about piracy nor that I don't think I'd want the option to have a more powerful hardware where the games could look better. What I'm saying is that Nintendo isn't as worried as any of us think with the potential hurt in sales piracy might get(because of people wanting to play in higher res), if anything because Pokémon Scarlet and Violet proved that even when the game really does look horrible (and not because of the hardware) people simply don't care. And they are gonna care EVEN LESS when their most ambitious title that's close to what next gen accomplishes and that looks beautiful despite 900p30 just sells gangbusters again.
The supposed information is from an anonymous source, not Nintendo, and even by rumor standards it kinda raises an eyebrow that this is being reported out of Nikkei Asia instead of Nikkei Japan. The only thing Nintendo has really committed to is that it's not factored into their current forecasts, which is a pretty narrow denial.
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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Exactly. I saw a Brazilian Youtuber saying "after playing BotW on 'Switch Pro'(emulator), I can't afford Nintendo having just this 1080p games. Also price blanks".
And I was like "yes honey living outside the country and with more money than literally 99% of your country, your followers that had to save money for years to get a Switch lite definitely agree it's a bummer they can't play TotK on a 10 thousand dollar PC like yours
".I just get bummed with stuff like this because it's always the same discourses, mainly in Brazilian Twitter. Nintendo fanboys bummed there's no Switch 2, which clearly should have released last year, and other companies fanboys acting like every single next gen game looks like Horizon Forbidden West and Switch is a PS2 like and Nintendo is a mercenary (I mean which multimillionaire company isn't??) and deserves piracy for it... While they buy their FIFA's and CoDs for 70$ every year. But I am fool for just not wanting to fuck my console in order to homebrew or I have the bad choice of being born in a poor family that can't afford me getting a modern PC to emulate.
Sorry for the rant I'm just sick of Nintendo haters and mainstream streamers that know nothing of Nintendo saying the worst gores you can think one might say.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Exactly. I saw a Brazilian Youtuber saying "after playing BotW on 'Switch Pro'(emulator), I can't afford Nintendo having just this 1080p games. Also price blanks".
And I was like "yes honey living outside the country and with more money than literally 99% of your country, your followers that had to save money for years to get a Switch lite definitely agree it's a bummer they can't play TotK on a 10 thousand dollar PC like yours
I just get bummed with stuff like this because it's always the same discourses, mainly in Brazilian Twitter. Nintendo fanboys bummed there's no Switch 2, which clearly should have released last year, and other companies fanboys acting like every single next gen game looks like Horizon Forbidden West and Switch is a PS2 like and Nintendo is a mercenary (I mean which multimillionaire company isn't??) and deserves piracy for it... While they buy their FIFA's and CoDs for 70$ every year. But I am fool for just not wanting to fuck my console in order to homebrew or I have the bad choice of being born in a poor family that can't afford me getting a modern PC to emulate.
Sorry for the rant I'm just sick of Nintendo haters and mainstream streamers that know nothing of Nintendo saying the worst gores you can think one might say.
"Playing BOTW on emulator and living outside the country" Was it Funky that said that? Lmao if so
Marce-chan
Magical Girls <3
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JESUS CHRIST YOU GOT IT LMAO
Yes, it was exactly him lol
There are so many bad takes on Nintendo from him I can't even list all
Yes, it was exactly him lol
There are so many bad takes on Nintendo from him I can't even list all
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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I knew it lol. Yeah, outside of the brazilian dedicated Nintendo community, the views/takes/opinions that brazilian youtubers have about Nintendo are terrible. I don't even bother watching their Nintendo content.
Instro
Like Like
I think both Nikkei and Nikkei Asia keep most articles behind subscriptions, so I'm not sure you'd be able to confirm what Nikkei proper has. I'm pretty sure Asia is intended for international audiences, so one would assume the same info is being reported on the main Nikkei articles as well. What's being said tracks with comments from others, and I see that David Gibson retweeted it, so it probably has merit.
