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Rumour Jeff Grubb: Metroid Prime 2 Remastered coming "relatively soonish", and "Something unrelated to TotK is happening with Zelda later this year"

oldpuck said:
Let's acknowledge that there is a big gap between "minimal effort" and what MPR did, which is as close to "maximal effort" as possible.

Pikmin 1+2 are essentially emulated with some AI uprezzed textures and cut scenes. MPR is the original game, ported to the Prime 4 engine, with every asset rebuilt, every scene relit, the audio remixed for 5.1 surround sound support, the animation data tweaked, and the camera movements reworked. It is an inch away from a remake.

On the spectrum between those is Echoes moved to the new engine, with scenes relit, but assets receiving a simple uprez.

Or some assets reworked to use some of the engines more advanced rendering features and the Switch's higher polygon budget.

Or simply paying a "cheaper" studio to rebuild assets to MPR's template, reusing MPR's assets where possible, and skipping some of the little bells and whistles, like the 5.1 surround sound remix.
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True, it's important to remember MPR is more or less the ceiling of what you can reasonably expect. What you said about the engine is also something I hadn't considered, so "minimal effort" might be pessimistic on my part.

oldpuck said:
I don't think Nintendo's expectations are very high considering their approach to MPR, and I worry that two releases in the same year of an only modestly successful franchise cheapens it, rather than giving it the sort of grand revealing that you might want. On the other hand, considering the priced MPR as a budget title, how in the heck are they going to cut the price further while just giving us the GameCube assets, without softening the blow with something like a collection?
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I agree, multiple releases in the same calendar year seems a bit much. I know people will bring up Fusion/Prime and Zero Mission/Echoes, but those were still different platforms. MPR set such a high bar in terms of the work done that if MP2 is standalone I would find it really bizarre for them to not follow that template. But in fairness it's not like Grubb is sharing every detail either so there might be a component we're missing.

oldpuck said:
It just feels like a weird release strategy that doesn't necessarily set up MP4 for success, kinda no matter how they slice it. But I want to play the games so I'm happy no matter what!
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I'm fully with you. Having the game on Switch will be awesome. Worst case scenario I'm mildly disappointed for an hour and then I'll move on. It's not my job to worry over the management of GameCube remasters so I'm not going to.
 
Shoulder said:
I think it’s not unreasonable to suggest the main differences between Prime 4 on Switch 2 vs Switch 1 will be the inclusion of DLSS, and Ray Tracing.

Otherwise, the core games will remain the same across the platforms.
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Agreed, it's not really clear what people with the "MP4 will be held back by the Switch" take actually want given how gorgeous and well-performing MPR was
 
Just speculating, but I imagine that having done the Metroid Prime remaster already a lot of the necessary groundwork for the other two games would be done or the development flow / pipeline would be ready.

Porting a gamecube game like Metroid Prime to a new engine would entail plenty of engineering and problem solving, yes - but once you've done it once you should be able to do it again in a fraction of the time, and then outsource much of the rest. Secondly, MP 3 will require so much work to certain systems that I imagine they might as well port it over anyway. You can't do a Pikmin 1+2 job on Prime 3, it's more involved than that.

So it wouldn't surprise me at all if they were able to lean on that previous work and create a mid-level remaster. They might say - look. we'll throw the game into the new engine, update the UI, update Samus herself (arm cannon, suits and beams), and we'll put the new engine's lighting in, but the bulk of the work (redoing textures and 3d models) we'll skip. For most people I think that would be enough. (Although being honest I think they would probably skip the lighting as getting it right is a room by room job for an artist and a lot of work. More of a hope.)

If it's just a Pikmin 1+2 level port, it will need to be priced the appropriately. Can't have Metroid Prime 1 at $40 as a full remaster and then charge the same for a port of MP2.

One thing I'll say is that I don't mind Prime 1 getting the special treatment alone. It's one of Nintendo's most legendary and exalted games in a way that Primes 2 & 3 simply aren't.

For me, Prime 1 is a masterpiece, Prime 2 has higher highs but lower lows than Prime 1, and Prime 3 is easily most uneven and often disappointing but has the best core gameplay in the series and the some of the best areas too. 3's main stretch of Bryyo to Skytown is as good as anything in any Prime game.

EDIT: Shit, oldpuck really covered a lot of that already lol
 
hologram said:
Agreed, it's not really clear what people with the "MP4 will be held back by the Switch" take actually want given how gorgeous and well-performing MPR was
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Exactly. MPR looks fucking phenomenal, and I’ve only watched videos of it.

We can already take some clues based on the Kiwi Talkz interviews with former Retro Studios guys to get a broad picture of what Prime 4 will look like.

Prime Remastered is the floor of what Prime 4 will end up as.

But as we know with Prime Remastered, that did not have dynamic shadows/lighting, which otherwise would’ve made the game run at 30fps more than likely. The question for Switch 1 turns into, “What can be done to maintain 60fps?”

It’s not impossible for Prime 4 to have dynamic shadows/lighting for OG Switch, but like I said, it would be cut to 30fps more than likely.

It may be possible though to include FSR like what Monolith Soft did for Xenoblade Chronicles 3 did, run the game at a much lower internal resolution, and with some further optimization, just MAYBE get 60fps.

I want to say Prime Remastered used a form of TAA for its anti-aliasing, but could be wrong on that.

The one wild card though is will Prime 4 become a Prime of the Wild, or will it fall into more like Prime 3 with semi-large levels, but still segmented into chunks?

I think if Prime 4 is a BOTW style game, then kiss your ass good bye for it looking like Prime Remastered. This is why I think despite what I’ve said in the past, Prime 4 will more than likely be a continuation of what Prime 3 introduced, but with some changes to the structure to still feel “Metroid” like.

The thing is though, if Prime 4 is just Prime 1-3 but bigger, longer, and uncut, is that really going to be the best game they can make? Or by changing up the conventions of what Metroid is, do they introduce new players, and Prime 4 ends up at the most successful title in the franchise.

Then again, Prime 4 could just be Prime 1-3, but better, and it sells bonkers anyway, but that sounds unlikely.

Either way, all I care about right now is what is the official title for Prime 4. I started this bet with a. Iffy back in 2017/2018 that Prime 4 would have the “4” in its title, and he said it wouldn’t. Loser buys the game for the winner.

It’s the longest bet I’ve ever been a part of. 🤣
 
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People giving Grubb grief but he is largely very accurate, was off by 2 months for MPR. Don't think that's unforgivable by any means. TP and WW were the only things I've seen where he was 100% wrong.

Prime 4 will be MPR graphics with modern animations. MPR still had OG animations which made it look stiff. But it looks like a freaking PS5 game in some very small areas. It's wild.
 
TomNookYankees said:
Seriously if nintendo plans on only doing an upres for Prime 2 and Prime 3 then they should've just released all three as an upres'd trilogy for $60. It's a terrible idea to set peoples expectations with the Prime 1 remaster and then do a rush job on the follow up.
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Prime R is meant to set expectations for Prime 4. They never promised the trilogy to us, that's just something people are assuming.
 
touchfuzzy said:
Nah that's as super safe a prediction as it gets. It's like saying "something Mario will happen in 2023" -- like what are the odds Nintendo goes a whole six months without talking about Zelda at all? Especially when a huge new game just came out that they'll still want to be promoting into the holiday season. It could just be another amiibo and that will be 'something'.
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Well he did say it wasn't tears of the kingdom related. So no. That's not really safe.
 
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SpaceGodzilla said:
eh, he was wrong a few more time about prime remastered release date
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Grubb's sources are rock solid, and he's pretty good about stating when he's sharing info he's heard versus info he's speculating versus when he's extrapolating from data he heard.

I think we should take anything related to Nintendo timing with a grain of salt, because it's clear that Nintendo has changed their last stage game pipeline - QA/Translation timing no longer matches release timing the way it should.

If Grubb says a game exists, I think he's 100% right. If he says a game is releasing, I think we should take that with a grain of salt.
 
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Prime 2 shadow dropping in September makes sense but bums me out because I’d rather they shadowdrop F-Zero GX in September instead lmao


The Zelda announcement could be anything. It could be that leaked Zelda Lego Set. It could be a whole Zelda lego line-up. It could be Ocarina of Time 3D getting ported to Switch for OOT’s 25th anniversary. It could be Wind Waker/Twilight Princess HD getting released finally. It could be anything. I don’t necessarily think it’s anything to get extremely hyped for, more just release calendar filler. Unless it’s OOT3D in HD. I’d be hyped for that.
 
Derachi said:
Prime 2 shadow dropping in September makes sense but bums me out because I’d rather they shadowdrop F-Zero GX in September instead lmao


The Zelda announcement could be anything. It could be that leaked Zelda Lego Set. It could be a whole Zelda lego line-up. It could be Ocarina of Time 3D getting ported to Switch for OOT’s 25th anniversary. It could be Wind Waker/Twilight Princess HD getting released finally. It could be anything. I don’t necessarily think it’s anything to get extremely hyped for, more just release calendar filler. Unless it’s OOT3D in HD. I’d be hyped for that.
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If it's something not even related to video games, I don't why Grubb even bothers mentioning it.
 
Hermii said:
If it's something not even related to video games, I don't why Grubb even bothers mentioning it.
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Because all he knows is that it’s Zelda related but not TOTK related. A Lego release would be in partnership with NOA, so his source would probably know about it.
 
The Zelda news could be something as simple as Oracle of Ages/Seasons launching on GB NSO. I definitely think this year is too early for WW/TP HD. Maybe an announcement this year with a release next year.
 
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Huh, I totally forgot that the Oracle games are slated to launch on NSO this year. Would be pretty underwhelming if Grubb's source was just... iterating something Nintendo already stated would happen in the launch trailer for GB/GBC NSO.
 
MeatheadSamus said:
People giving Grubb grief but he is largely very accurate, was off by 2 months for MPR. Don't think that's unforgivable by any means. TP and WW were the only things I've seen where he was 100% wrong.

Prime 4 will be MPR graphics with modern animations. MPR still had OG animations which made it look stiff. But it looks like a freaking PS5 game in some very small areas. It's wild.
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Grubb is the most reliable insider. Dunno why people are so butthurt when they see him mentioned.
 
Hermii said:
Zelda related but not totk related can be many things, most of them are video game related.

He should have said Zelda related but not game related. Could still be a ton of things, but it doesn't give people false hopes
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Oh I don’t think Jeff would even know. He clearly stated he’s simply saying what he was told, and what he was told was “Something Zelda, but unrelated to TOTK.” That’s all he’s got. To an NOA employee, the launch of a potential Zelda Lego set/lineup would be a huge marketing thing, so to an NOA employee that’s something worth mentioning. They probably didn’t even think about whether or not Jeff’s audience would care about a Lego thing.

In the end I’m just spitballing as to what it could be. My inclination, especially with TOTK still fresh in people’s minds, is that it’ll be much more of a lower-key thing. Do I know for sure it’s a Lego announcement? Of course not. But I wouldn’t be surprised if that‘s what it ends up being, especially because we know at least one Zelda Lego set is coming.
 
FeiFongWong said:
Grubb is the most reliable insider. Dunno why people are so butthurt when they see him mentioned.
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because as a Nintendo fanboy he loves to speculate and people get caught up on that, same thing that happens to Nate. Then there is the TP/WW HD incident lol. But yeah he's usually the first one with info on directs. He's been one of the first people to say when a direct is happening.
 
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I'm actually more excited to replay Prime 2 because it is definitely the one I've replayed the least. I've beaten MP1 at least 6 times. At least, lol. Very few if any games I've ever beaten more. I think I've beaten MP3 three or four times, but more recently than MP2. And MP2 I've done just twice - once on cube and once on the Wii Trilogy disc. It's the only one where I can't explicitly remember all the rooms.

Like, Torvus Bog. Cool area, but I'm damned if I can remember a single specific room from there. Excited to see it again.

I would have loved to see a full remaster of Sanctuary Fortress, though. Because while a lot of people love that area, I was never really sure what it was meant to be. Like, is that really a whole city down there? I thought the planet was ruined by the Ing? It looks fine to me! And do the Ing, these space insect monsters, really live in a glowing neon orange palace? It didn't really make sense to me. It was damn cool, though.
 
It could be an indie collab again, Nintendo has not published an indie game recently if I am remembering.
 
Journalism in relation to Nintendo just seems like someone's special job to spoil what's under the Christmas tree. It ruins the fun when it does get officially announced. Then there's the online discourse about these speculative foresights of just how reputable these "insiders" are and their dumb "track records". Nothing really seems gained by any of this except potential frustration of waiting for the announcement being indeterminably far out, or never-to-be even. And if it does happen, it dampens your own reaction with a "well, there it is," instead of "whoa, holy shit that's awesome!"

It's paradoxical as it seems to come from people who are Nintendo fans, but they do it without realizing they are making the whole process worse for Nintendo and fans alike. I don't see any benfits of knowing about this stuff ahead of time regardless of the amount of detail or lack thereof.
 
Prophet64 said:
Journalism in relation to Nintendo just seems like someone's special job to spoil what's under the Christmas tree. It ruins the fun when it does get officially announced. Then there's the online discourse about these speculative foresights of just how reputable these "insiders" are and their dumb "track records". Nothing really seems gained by any of this except potential frustration of waiting for the announcement being indeterminably far out, or never-to-be even. And if it does happen, it dampens your own reaction with a "well, there it is," instead of "whoa, holy shit that's awesome!"

It's paradoxical as it seems to come from people who are Nintendo fans, but they do it without realizing they are making the whole process worse for Nintendo and fans alike. I don't see any benfits of knowing about this stuff ahead of time regardless of the amount of detail or lack thereof.
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it's not just Nintendo though.

But this is certainly different than what that twitter leaker did before the direct.
 
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Heron said:
I would have loved to see a full remaster of Sanctuary Fortress, though. Because while a lot of people love that area, I was never really sure what it was meant to be. Like, is that really a whole city down there? I thought the planet was ruined by the Ing? It looks fine to me! And do the Ing, these space insect monsters, really live in a glowing neon orange palace? It didn't really make sense to me. It was damn cool, though.
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Yeah, that area always felt out of place compared to the rest of the game. It's supposed to be an ancient place, but it looks like a futuristic structure floating over an enormous city.

metroid-prime-2-still-convinced-sanctuary-fortress-is-one-v0-bz83fpcpj9na1.png
 
Prophet64 said:
Journalism in relation to Nintendo just seems like someone's special job to spoil what's under the Christmas tree. It ruins the fun when it does get officially announced. Then there's the online discourse about these speculative foresights of just how reputable these "insiders" are and their dumb "track records". Nothing really seems gained by any of this except potential frustration of waiting for the announcement being indeterminably far out, or never-to-be even. And if it does happen, it dampens your own reaction with a "well, there it is," instead of "whoa, holy shit that's awesome!"

It's paradoxical as it seems to come from people who are Nintendo fans, but they do it without realizing they are making the whole process worse for Nintendo and fans alike. I don't see any benfits of knowing about this stuff ahead of time regardless of the amount of detail or lack thereof.
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Are you alright buddy
 
OK! If MP2 comes out soon, I will be buying it soon. Prime Remastered was a ton of fun; even if this one doesn't look as good that's OK.

I played all three Prime games as they came out, and I remembered a couple of big moments playing MPR, but 2&3 I'm pretty well blank on at this point lol. It'll be like playing a new game!
 
SmolSam said:
MP2 with just upscaled textures looks great. However, it really needs that lighting work that the Prime remaster had.

wjfllt.jpg
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Really, the only reason I'd care about it being redone at all is because it has to stand next to Prime. Otherwise, I think it might have been largely accepted as is, but the discrepancy might cause some manner of issues.

oldpuck said:
I don't think Nintendo's expectations are very high considering their approach to MPR, and I worry that two releases in the same year of an only modestly successful franchise cheapens it, rather than giving it the sort of grand revealing that you might want. On the other hand, considering the priced MPR as a budget title, how in the heck are they going to cut the price further while just giving us the GameCube assets, without softening the blow with something like a collection?

It just feels like a weird release strategy that doesn't necessarily set up MP4 for success, kinda no matter how they slice it. But I want to play the games so I'm happy no matter what!
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Right, it seems odd that Prime, after all the work done with it, was positioned as a budget title when so many ports have retained their pricing. Perhaps the decision was meant to draw new people into the series. I wonder, though, if part of the idea might be that a lower price point on each entry might entice people to purchase each part of the trilogy. It's more palatable when each is 20USD below other Switch games, after all.

I mentioned it in the other thread, but I could see the possibility that Echoes releasing could lead to a boost for Prime. It's similar to why a publisher might order new printings of an author's previous works when a new book is releasing. The lower price point, again, could help with this. And perhaps even again with Corruption.

But there is still the problem of how to handle the pricing if the final two games don't have the same work put into their rerelease, given Prime already hit the lower price point.
 
SpaceGodzilla said:
eh, he was wrong a few more time about prime remastered release date
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Thing is, he’s just a journalist reporting on what he hears. Other ‘leakers’ are trying to build credibility or whatever, Grubb is trying to be honest from a position of having more privileged ears than most. There always turns out to be at least broad elements of truth to what he reports, as he has no reason to be making it up unlike countless others looking to be notorious.
 
ammonite said:
Thing is, he’s just a journalist reporting on what he hears. Other ‘leakers’ are trying to build credibility or whatever, Grubb is trying to be honest from a position of having more privileged ears than most. There always turns out to be at least broad elements of truth to what he reports, as he has no reason to be making it up unlike countless others looking to be notorious.
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Grubb is in a weird place where he is supposed to be a journalist but he’s also way more into speculation and rumors and things that he just hears. He’s not like a guy like Jason Schreier where if he reports on something you know it has been cross-referenced and sourced and is fact. Grubb kind of tries to live in both worlds and it can be frustrating. You don’t see reporters from most other outlets just throwing things out there off the cuff on random podcasts like he does.
 
Prophet64 said:
Journalism in relation to Nintendo just seems like someone's special job to spoil what's under the Christmas tree. It ruins the fun when it does get officially announced. Then there's the online discourse about these speculative foresights of just how reputable these "insiders" are and their dumb "track records". Nothing really seems gained by any of this except potential frustration of waiting for the announcement being indeterminably far out, or never-to-be even. And if it does happen, it dampens your own reaction with a "well, there it is," instead of "whoa, holy shit that's awesome!"

It's paradoxical as it seems to come from people who are Nintendo fans, but they do it without realizing they are making the whole process worse for Nintendo and fans alike. I don't see any benfits of knowing about this stuff ahead of time regardless of the amount of detail or lack thereof.
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I have to agree, to some extent. I'll gladly join in on the fun of speculation alongside everyone else (not like there's any avoiding leaks and rumors, if you're plugged into forums and such the way enthusiasts like us are), but broadly speaking, I've never been one to actively demand or pry for "insider" information. When we get it, it of course makes for interesting discussion material and hype fuel (I love me some of that!), but on the whole, it can be reduced down to two potential outcomes:

  • The leaks prove mostly true, if not completely so. In this scenario, we'll have indeed learned of a project's existence likely well in advance of its proper reveal. Developers and their marketing teams get caught off-guard, and it's no longer a surprise for fans. I'm reminded of the last Nintendo Direct. "Oh, there's Super Mario RPG remake and Super Mario Bros. Wonder, right on cue." I asked myself what I really gained from learning of their existence ahead of time, and I felt a bit foolish in hindsight for even - hoping - Prime 4 would make an appearance... 'cuz if it was going to, it would've leaked, right? Metroid Dread having little to no insider buzz prior to its reveal definitely made that Direct iconic and memorable to me. I'd been looking forward to Metroid 5 for two decades, lol. Knowing about it a few days in advance after a 19 year wait wouldn't have done much for me, personally.

    Or, the alternative possibility:

  • The leaks prove mostly false, if not completely so. Gamers get upset, because of course they do. Some of the ire is more reasonable, while much of it is wildly inappropriate, because there's always people who can't seem to behave maturely. The insiders themselves become the subject of fixation, as opposed to the information they chose to share. People get bitter. Things get personal. Nobody wins.

Industry creatives like Cory Barlog have previously remarked against the practice and culture surrounding leaking, and that's entirely reasonable, in my opinion. Folks tend to think about it in terms of consumer vs. corporation, but the people working hard on the games we love being upset at the fact that they're being robbed of revealing their work on their own terms is completely understandable to me. Artists and other creatives having to grapple with the gaming public operating on incomplete, subject to change, or even outright wrong information gets frustrating, I'd imagine.

At the end of the day, insiders are sharing info that isn't theirs to share, as a hobby. Sometimes things pan out, sometimes they don't, and we can't tell them what they should do (nor would they listen, if we did). The info is fun to play around with, but I do think there's room to discuss the pros and cons of its wider impact, without making things personal (and targeting individuals, as opposed to the culture in general).
 
There is a Lego Zelda set coming soon? Thats cool!!

Hopefully one day we will have a Metroid Lego set where you can build whole Metroid 1 map (?).
 
Grubb and his guest (not sure his name) cover all possibilities with this information very clearly. He’s even extremely hesitant to even mention the Zelda thing.

I think Grubb knows what he’s talking about, and he openly admits that things can change internally from what he’s been told.

Also, we have known for a while we were getting Prime 2, and Zelda’s popularity should be reason enough for fans to sit back comfortably under the assurance that Zelda is never going to have a situation like Metroid where it goes years without a game and wondering if the franchise is dead. Yes, Zelda games take a long time to come out, but you can always count on them to eventually show up. For a while, Metroid didn’t have that assurance.

So, for any Zelda fans who later in the year get disappointed that they only get LEGO or something, remember that you just got an extremely successful title and talks of the future of your franchise while some other series (like Star Fox and F-Zero) are radio-silent.

Not throwing shade at Zelda fans, because I am one myself, but I do find it funny how people are clamouring TotK DLC already and some even got upset when there wasn’t DLC at the June direct.

A bit of rant, but my point is that I believe Grubb is credible, and even if his timing is off it doesn’t mean that he’s wrong.
 
I said it a few hours ago but if echoes is a standalone release that means mp4 is late 2024.

And btw i find it so absurd that nintendo will rleease an echoes enhanced port for 40 that we know they will do it.
 
If Metroid Prime 2 and 3 are coming (it's going to be both, not just one), I think we're looking at another Pikmin 1/2 type of release. Upscaled graphics (maybe touched up a little but nothing major), widescreen, sold separately for 29.99 or together for 49.99, shadowdropped in September with a physical release in December.
 
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