They run a lot faster clocks than a switch though.
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
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They run a lot faster clocks than a switch though.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Well, yes. But the OG GBA is the most comfortable model anyway. And Switch and the games they run are very different from GBA. GBA was running dedicated software that took into account the fact it was a portable system. Switch games are full fledged home console games that, most of the time, don't try to adapt themselves to portable experience.
No. Modems are expensive, with very few companies working on it. And if you want to use a 5G modem, you need to buy it from QCOM and pay license to them. It's a huge added cost for zero benefit. Consumers can provide Wi-Fi over 5G to Switch anytime with a modern cellphone. So there's no need for Nintendo to worry or waste money with this.
Of course it would need a a heatpipe and a fan. Specially in Docked Mode, where clocks are higher and heat generated is higher. If it didn't had a heatpipe and/or a fan, what would happen is that you would boot the Switch, play a game for a few minutes and then the Switch would power off due to the temperature.
FrisianFellow
Rattata
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- Mr.
Personaly releasing a TV only model far into the console life span for a cheaper price. Is a good way for getting to increase the install base in the west. For people still doubting for getting the device or just want to have a second or third Switch. I wouldn't give the model a performance boost. But just a cheaper option for consumers to buy.
Make it small and make it cheap, it will be mostly be impulse buy for alot of folks. So yeah a Switch TV or years in the future Switch 2 TV. Is a good way to sell software imo.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Pikmin
What wattage is needed for a device to no longer need active cooling.
redmutineer75
Helping me find my gun
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Well, the A17 Pro has a TDP of 8W, so that's probably around the limit of what passive cooling can provide.
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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It depend on how your design is done, what are the heat escape points, where the thermal solutions are connected to, how your device is interacted with. A phone can sustain 5 - 6W with passive cooling. A tablet could sustain up to 10W. If your device isn’t touchable or need to be hold, you can let it soak off a lot more heat and reach burning skin temperatures.
boodream
Paratroopa
I rarely post here, but I read a lot, and I wanted to thank all the people who continue to popularize complicated things through didactic explanations. I include oldpuck, of course.
One thing that frustrates me a little bit sometimes when people talk about the future material (and no, I’m not talking about Digital Foundry’s almost funny obsession with antialiasing) is that we talk a lot about numbers, quantities. Framerate, resolution, RAM, storage. And I understand that these are key indicators. But for the majority of people, for laypeople, for people less educated than many of the excellent contributors of this thread, it would be nice if the discussion is sometimes also centered on what the power gains will concretely bring to the gaming experience. I mean, not with numbers, but with new gameplay possibilities, indications on the scope of the games, perhaps references to the current limitations in terms of what is currently possible or impossible to develop on Switch, not with abstract figures but with concrete game elements.
For example, it seems obvious that an open world experience like Zelda Botw would have been impossible before Wii U. Even someone who does not have a technological culture is able to see here what this evolution has allowed. And sometimes I would like the debate to focus less on numbers, terraflops, FPS, resolutions, than on what the Switch 2 will bring us in terms of innovations, that is to say additional creative freedom and new tools that it will give for example, to the developers who make the next Mario or the next Zelda.
I love the explanations on how the physics engine of the new Zelda games was designed. I imagine that this creativity, this design approach is obviously linked to the technical resources available to developers. So I would love if Digital Foundry, for example, would give up random speculation from time to time and use their expertise to explain to us what experiences might be possible, as players, on the next material that is not accessible on the current material.
The only recent example that comes to mind is the version of BOTW with almost no loading time that would have been shown by Nintendo.
One thing that frustrates me a little bit sometimes when people talk about the future material (and no, I’m not talking about Digital Foundry’s almost funny obsession with antialiasing) is that we talk a lot about numbers, quantities. Framerate, resolution, RAM, storage. And I understand that these are key indicators. But for the majority of people, for laypeople, for people less educated than many of the excellent contributors of this thread, it would be nice if the discussion is sometimes also centered on what the power gains will concretely bring to the gaming experience. I mean, not with numbers, but with new gameplay possibilities, indications on the scope of the games, perhaps references to the current limitations in terms of what is currently possible or impossible to develop on Switch, not with abstract figures but with concrete game elements.
For example, it seems obvious that an open world experience like Zelda Botw would have been impossible before Wii U. Even someone who does not have a technological culture is able to see here what this evolution has allowed. And sometimes I would like the debate to focus less on numbers, terraflops, FPS, resolutions, than on what the Switch 2 will bring us in terms of innovations, that is to say additional creative freedom and new tools that it will give for example, to the developers who make the next Mario or the next Zelda.
I love the explanations on how the physics engine of the new Zelda games was designed. I imagine that this creativity, this design approach is obviously linked to the technical resources available to developers. So I would love if Digital Foundry, for example, would give up random speculation from time to time and use their expertise to explain to us what experiences might be possible, as players, on the next material that is not accessible on the current material.
The only recent example that comes to mind is the version of BOTW with almost no loading time that would have been shown by Nintendo.
BreakAtmo
Bob-omb
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Yeah, I have heard about 3D V-Cache generating more heat. Maybe future versions of Frore's AirJets could help? I was watching a video on them that demonstrated how, apart from just ejecting the heat generated by the chip it was cooling, it was actually very good - better than fans - at also blasting out the surrounding heat from the entire mobile device. A current AirJet Pro can only handle 10-15W, but future versions on better process nodes (they're made using photolithography) should improve on that. At least there'll be an option for thin/light devices that isn't just "no cooling".
Gotta play games with your reading glasses on.
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Congratulations to the software makers who'll get to benefit from not half-assing things.
The expectation is a software translation layer that will work basically 99% of the time, so no patches required. Maybe some very obscure games that do funky things with the hardware might need it, but it won't be a huge number.
this is probably because there's not a lot of reading material out there for things like Havok. Zelda uses the whole Havok suite so it's not even a too custom model, but an off the shelf one. how it works? you probably need access to the documentation and getting your hands on that would require a license.
outside of that, they could probably talk to engineers who roll their own engines or evangelists/engineers who work on third party solutions. but that's work that might not get the views to help sustain the channel
ziggyrivers
thunder
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There’s a Twitter account called Zuby_Tech circling a rumor that the Switch 2 will launch early next year, and will have a January event. They don’t cite sources, but does anyone know if they’re reliable?
I think they mainly post about phones. from that alone, I don't think they have any connections with gaming companies. disregard until someone reputable corraborates, I'd say
500+ games now have RTX features, ReSTIR is coming to a game, so that will be good for further testing, and Call of Duty is getting path tracing support in lobbies
500 RTX Games & Apps Are Now powered By DLSS, Ray Tracing & AI-Enhanced Technologies - Come Join The Celebration
Celebrate the release of over 500 RTX games and apps, and win $500 Green Man Gaming Gift Cards, RTX Key Caps, and other prizes. Plus, Cyberpunk 2077 gets even better with full ray tracing and DLSS 3.5 enhancements in update 2.1, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III and Call of Duty: Warzone lobbies...
www.nvidia.com
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I looked at the Twitter profile. Strikes to me as just a single person, not an organization. Didn't even link to any website as far as I can tell.
And with that, I'd assume it's probably speculation on his/her part.
Giancarlo
the Baby
no, they wount, Nintendo Switch sucessor would need at least 2/3 system seller,launching the console without any system seller, is too risky for Nintendo
Truno
Koopa
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Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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AirJet are just a meme currently. They're not worth. But they do have some significant investment muscle behind them, so perhaps in the future we'll a good product from them.
No? Congratulations to Nintendo for trying to offer a jack of all trades, master of none console. Portables and Home Consoles are different environments with different development needs. Nintendo is at fault for unifying them when they know it won't offer a perfect experiences on either of them. Switch provides a fine, but not great, device experience on either end.Congratulations to the software makers who'll get to benefit from not half-assing things.
It's Nintendo job to offer a perfect experience to their consumers and a frictionless development experience for developers. They can't expect developers to do double work on their console environment. Thankfully, it seems Nintendo has recognized that high-frequency, high resolution, high detail 3D games need a big screen experience and hence why they're increasing the screen size for the next device.
Maxrunner
Like Like
What about improvement to existing switch 1 games running on switch 2?
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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I wasn't saying they literally had as much text on screen as Switch games, but there were plenty of games which involved reading a lot of dialogue, which all used fonts and text sizes designed to be readable on the original GBA's much bigger screen. So those games were obviously worse experiences on the GameBoy Micro. The jump down in screen size from GBA to the GameBoy Micro was the equivalent of Nintendo going from the 6.2" original Switch screen all the way down to 4.3".
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Sometimes discussion gets around to how important it is to have a system seller for launch, but it seems to me like an imaginary problem? They can't manage to go more than a few months without dropping something that sells 10+ million on Switch. Seems like it would take some eclipse-like rare bad timing for them to manage to hit a period without just when they want to sell new hardware.
Nintendo doesn't have to include a Tensor Typeface Coprocessor for text to be readable at different screen sizes. Just developers creating new standard best practices. If some games come out particularly bad on a 5" screen? Well, hopefully they wouldn't skimp on it next time.
lattjeful
Like Like
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It's really tricky to answer this question, because truthfully, it's hard to say without painting things with broad strokes. 99% of us in this thread aren't game devs or designers. It's also not just the new hardware and software features, but also how they're used. That creativity is why the folks at Nintendo EDP are paid the big bucks and I'm not lol. For example, Tears of the Kingdom just uses Havok for its physics. What people were impressed with is how Havok is implementated, not that Havok is used. The game is polished and works really well with Havok; nothing really breaks, there are some physics stuff that's simulated that is super impressive for Switch, especially in an open world like TotK. So we can say "Yeah the next Zelda is gonna go crazier with the physics stuff!" but what we can't say is how that'll be used with puzzle or world design, or what direction they'll go in with other things.
But to try and answer your question, think everything Nintendo is doing with the Switch but bigger. Tears of the Kingdom with deeper world interactions, a Xenoblade game with a more dynamic world (no shade I love those games, but the worlds are kinda just a backdrop), bigger Mario levels with crazier world design due to faster loading and better processing allowing for more diverse assets, etc. Not to mention the obligatory Moar Graphics that'll come with every new console generation.
I know this isn't a great response and kinda vague, but I tried my best.
No shit? Hoping Nvidia puts out an article about it so we can share and talk about it. That's insane.I think they mainly post about phones. from that alone, I don't think they have any connections with gaming companies. disregard until someone reputable corraborates, I'd say
500+ games now have RTX features, ReSTIR is coming to a game, so that will be good for further testing, and Call of Duty is getting path tracing support in lobbies
500 RTX Games & Apps Are Now powered By DLSS, Ray Tracing & AI-Enhanced Technologies - Come Join The Celebration
Celebrate the release of over 500 RTX games and apps, and win $500 Green Man Gaming Gift Cards, RTX Key Caps, and other prizes. Plus, Cyberpunk 2077 gets even better with full ray tracing and DLSS 3.5 enhancements in update 2.1, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III and Call of Duty: Warzone lobbies...www.nvidia.com
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Games are most of the time, underfunded, understaffed and rushed out projects. Developers don't have time and shouldn't need to cater towards specific consoles gimmicks down to a detail. Nintendo will need to work on a dev-side feature to ease out text scalability if they want to keep releasing small screen devices, specially post-launch. Otherwise, people with small screens will keep suffering.
redmutineer75
Helping me find my gun
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Do you think that Nintendo would have a non compete clause for T239, or would Nvidia try to put it into the mobile PC market in the same way that AMD have with the Z1 Extreme? Having a chip that can be made cheaper, smaller, and with Nvidia's feature set would give them a major foot in the door to that market. The only problems I forsee with that would be the aforementioned deal with Nintendo and dealing with ARM vs. x86 compatibility.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Ensuring your game has readable text on a 6" screen when you're releasing it on a console with a 6" screen is hardly "catering towards specific consoles gimmicks". By that logic devs may as well just use Playstation button prompts on Xbox. There's no magic technology up Nintendo's sleeve that's going to make text on a portable screen look as big as it does on a 50" TV.
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I do think it's fair to say that if you designed it to be OK on a 6.2" screen instead of a 5" screen, the release of the latter could catch you flat-footed. But there's not THAT much difference. If there are any texts or UI elements that people would find below the limit of legibility on a 5" screen, there was almost certainly a group having those same problems with the 6.2" version.
Smash Kirby
Bob-omb
The guy also limited the replies and interactions.
theguy
Chain Chomp
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Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Ensuring your game has readable text on 6" screen isn't the same as ensuring it has readable text on a 5.5" screen or one even smaller. Specially when smaller screen models are added years after the original target hardware with bigger screen model. Nintendo will need to offer solutions if they want to offer smaller screens in the future. Even if it's at least a heads-up to developers that future models might have a reduced screen size, so that games are future proofed or offer scalability and accessibility options to users.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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Yeah, if Nintendo did release a device with a sub-5" screen after games had already been made for the original Switch, I certainly wouldn't blame developers if text wasn't particularly readable on it. But the current devices Nintendo has out range from slightly smaller than the original Switch screen on the Switch Lite, to slightly bigger on the OLED model. If game UIs were well designed for the original 6.2" screen, they should for the most part be fine on any current Switch model. I just don't buy the argument that Nintendo shouldn't make anything with a smaller screen just because some developers aren't properly accounting for the screen in the standard Switch model.
Langstonboy
Yes
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Traditional mobile gaming (3ds and vita) clearly have both evolved into true games like the switch or devolved into mobile games. These middle ground games have been proven to be a waste if work and talent in the modern gaming industry.
Mr.Gamerson
Octorok
I never said they wouldn't launch without any Nintendo first party exclusives just that they could delay the major system selling games for a few months if needed
Sure. From my experience with both machines, gba games are going to be playable whether you can read or not.
There are some games that are already close to unplayable on an OG Switch in handheld mode for me. Let alone a Switch Lite, or jfc a Micro.
Your mileage may vary, though. Younger eyes won't struggle as much. The zoom feature is also really good depending on your patience.
Ghostsonplanets
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Evolved into true games? What? Regardless of which platform is it on, every game is a true game. A game is nothing more than smoke and mirrors for entertainment purposes.
What does middle ground games even mean? You mean portable only games? Mobile games? I'm so confused
Regardless, a lot of games with portable heritage have been very sucessful on modern platforms. So I really disagree with them being a waste of a talent.
The only metric that matters for games is if the game was a success, sold a lot, made a lot of money and was profitable. If it did well, it was an excellent usage of talent and fullfilled its purpose. If it didn't, it was a huge waste of talent.
Lol, that's actually fair.
Imagine the size of text on a micro, though. We're not talking reading glasses, but a sherlock holmes sized magnifying glass.
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As someone who loves playing 3D games on the Lite screen, I'm gonna need elaboration on this. (Tangential, but not really important - I'm not sure why you're calling the zoom feature a Lite thing when it was added before the Lite came out and can even be used docked.)
Langstonboy
Yes
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I meant home console games I miss typed and yes there some of my favorite games of all time are on portable only consoles like the 3ds, but I don’t see a place for portable only games in 2023, putting Pokémon back to a handheld only format (sm and swsh level experiences not legends when where finally seeing what the franchise can be if they aren’t doing the bare minimum) games will be less frequent now they have to go back to making a Mario Kart for the home console a Mario Kart for the handheld, a big uhd zelda for the home console a small bite sized zelda for the handheld, instead of having the big games and smaller bite sized games playable wherever you want.
Thraktor
"[✄]. [✄]. [✄]. [✄]." -Microsoft
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I get what you're saying, but on almost every previous handheld, Nintendo has released models with varying screen sizes, in many cases changing them to a much bigger extent than we've seen on Switch, such as the GameBoy Micro. The reason it seems to be a bigger issue with Switch is that there are some third party developers simply putting a UI designed for viewing on a TV on the system with zero changes, which simply wasn't possible from a technical level on their previous hardware, and there's not much Nintendo can do about that.
The difference in screen sizes between Switch and Switch Lite is small enough that the variation from person to person in terms of eyesight, comfort levels, etc., is probably larger than the difference between the screens. If a significant number of people are having difficulty reading text on the Switch Lite screen, then there are probably a lot of people having difficulty with it on the Switch screen too. A sub-5" screen Switch Micro would probably be a different matter, but I would see that being more of a niche secondary device where people would simply avoid text-heavy games.
Personally I haven't had any issues with first-party games on my OG Switch in portable mode. The only third party game I had issues with was Darkest Dungeon, although they did patch that. That said, I don't typically play many ports of games designed for other consoles/PC, but I could certainly see them being difficult to play if they don't make UI changes.
As you say, though, it really varies by person and some people are more comfortable with playing on a smaller screen. Personally I'd be happy with a Switch Micro as a secondary device that I'd only use to play games that I know would work well on a screen that size, but it would definitely be a niche model. The GameBoy Micro only sold 2.4 million units, and I wouldn't expect a whole lot more from a tiny Switch.
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Depends on the "microness". Nix the bezels on the Lite alongside some adjustments, and you could have a materially smaller console with the same size screen. Though I think next gen Lite/Mini will use a bigger screen than the Lite, phones nowadays are big but very portable because they're slim. Cutting the trigger bumps and control sticks in favour of slimmer alternatives would definitely improve portability, if at the cose of usage (but with the GBA SP and indeed the existing Lite, putting portability before usability wouldn't be unexpected.)
We don't know. The hope is Nintendo will do this to all their first party published titles as an incentive (some may get res bumps/AA/AF etc, some may get the full works including DLSS) to keep selling them for another generation. Third parties probably won't bother.
Shish
An annoying person
Ghostsonplanets
Ghost in the Sales
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Because it's more used on Lite due to the smaller screen making it more difficult to play certain games. FE 3Houses was quite the experience on a Lite.
Fair enough on not being a feature added with the Lite. I legit thought they had added alongside the Lite launch.
Switch games are home console games. Home console games are designed towards big screen, high resolution, high detail TVs. It will never scale down effortlessly towards a small screen without concessions or redesigns. Because Switch is a hybrid console, it will never be able to offer a perfect experience on either end. The rumor that Nintendo is using a 7.91 inch LCD screen means that Nintendo is aware that that concessions need to be made so that Docked experience can better translate to Portable.
Ah! Then I do agree with you. There's no place for a dedicated portable gaming machine in the market anymore. Switch was born out of neccessity. Once the franchise scale up to Home Console like environment, it's hard to go back. As you said, traditional handheld gaming bifurcated into scaling up towards Home Console environments or towards mobile phone environment.
Pretty much. In the past, it used to be easy to do such wild variation due to the fact games were already design with a small screen in mind. On Switch, where games have to be designed with Docked and Portable or games are straight up ported from a Home Console environment to Switch, things get more messy.
I don't know if it was patched, but a game where I struggled a lot with readability and legibility on the Lite was Fire Emblem 3Houses.
Samuspet
Octorok
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Larger Worlds with longer draw distances and better level of detail.
More polygons to make those worlds more detailed in terms of geometry.
More NPC’s in towns / cities.
More physics systems / interactions like higher quality water and fire simulations.
Much shorter / no loading times.
Real time lighting instead of baked.
Then the usual generational leaps like better character models, higher quality lighting, higher resolution textures and shadow maps. Overall higher render resolution of the image and smoother / higher framerates.
Ultimately it will come down to how far the developers want to push the design. You’re mainly going to see the above in the larger budget action / adventure games like 3D Mario, Zelda, Kart, Metroid and Xenoblade but not so much in lower budget 2D games imo.
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Zuby_Tech might be piggybacking off this person?
They're supposedly a mobile leaker, referenced by a fair few sites in the past in regards to Apple and Samsung products.
Don't know how reliable, as I don't have as much time as I'd like to look into things right now. But I figured I'd drop this here for others to speculate about since I did see it this morning.
Meelow
Koopa
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If the Switch 2 were coming out early next year, we would have a lot more leaks, and Nate would definitely know more. Nintendo could announce the Switch 2 in January, I guess but the earliest it would be released in May; I don't see Nintendo giving a two-month window between announcement and release.
I am just going to keep the expectation of March announcement and September release.
SoldierDelta
Designated Xenoblade Loremaster
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I mean... a mobile leaker is probably speaking a bit less out of his own ass than other non-Nintendo leakers are, but I still wouldn't call it great.
I'm still in camp "If we're getting it H1 next year, either we're going to get something at TGA (unlikely due to track-record and Nintendo's mindset), January (very likely), or February (literally no idea)".
We barely got any legit reveal dates for the Switch 1 prior to it's reveal. Emily Rogers was the only real reason why we knew about it's October reveal trailer in the first place, and she only just knew about it on the day. I think "early" next year is out of the question at this point unless Nintendo bum-rushes into an April release, but I have my doubts.
I agree with you, I just think it's interesting this person (seemingly someone with history) is saying early 2024. It's certainly not the most 'logical' thing, and most people here jumped the ship on Early 2024 a month ago.
Still think it's fun to entertain the possibility. I suppose "early" could also mean different things to different people. Could we see a January reveal and an April release? Maybe!
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