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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Concernt said:
Heat guns, glue strips, double sided tape, hair driers, these are all pretty readily obtainable. The tools just need to be commercially available, not already in everyone's homes.

You can get heat guns and glue strips in any third rate hardware store, and in my little slice of Europe, there's a lot of those.
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Yeah, but the wordage/intent of the legislation is so uravg consumer could do it as easily as possible.

Removing and reinstalling a glass backplate is not easy for uravg consumer.
 
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here. Is it just me, or does the concept of Nintendo making enhanced ports of Switch games with all DLC (e.g. MK8D, SSBU) not make any sense? People say "oh, they can just charge $70 for an old game" but wouldn’t they want people to pay, for example, $115 for SSBU and the Fighter Passes? For the Switch ports of Wii U games, it made sense since there was no BC, but assuming this system does, rereleasing them doesn't make sense when they can already charge more than full price.
 
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RedSpring said:
You’re right. Wrong phrasing. I was trying to say to the post saying not to expect 4k/rt on demanding games that a game maxing out it’s hardware resources to get a 4k/rt is just as demanding as games maxing out it’s hardware resources on better texture/polygon/lighting.
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People really need to get their expectations in check lol…

Spider-Man 2 has to drop as low as 900p when using it’s 60fps RT mode on a 200+ watt 10tflop / high clocked Zen CPU equipped dedicated console.

Yes Switch 2 will have DLSS/RR to help out but they’re not free. In my humble opinion PS5/Series ports will have to run at 540p internal on Switch 2 if targeting RT at 30fps when docked.

Keep an eye out for the internal resolutions on Alan Wake 2 this week on the consoles then keep in mind Switch 2 will be a 20 watt hybrid console and not a 200 watt dedicated console.

Switch 2 will be incredibly impressive but it won’t produce miracles just because of DLSS. RT is also incredibly CPU intensive even when using ray reconstruction.
 
redmutineer75 said:
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here. Is it just me, or does the concept of Nintendo making enhanced ports of Switch games with all DLC (e.g. MK8D, SSBU) not make any sense? People say "oh, they can just charge $70 for an old game" but wouldn’t they want people to pay, for example, $135 for SSBU and the Fighter Passes? For the Switch ports of Wii U games, it made sense since there was no BC, but assuming this system does, rereleasing them doesn't make sense when they can already charge more than full price.
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It also makes sense to charge 1000 dollars for the new system, doesn’t mean they will or it’s likely.
 
redmutineer75 said:
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here. Is it just me, or does the concept of Nintendo making enhanced ports of Switch games with all DLC (e.g. MK8D, SSBU) not make any sense? People say "oh, they can just charge $70 for an old game" but wouldn’t they want people to pay, for example, $135 for SSBU and the Fighter Passes? For the Switch ports of Wii U games, it made sense since there was no BC, but assuming this system does, rereleasing them doesn't make sense when they can already charge more than full price.
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The Smash DLC pack sales are probably tapped out at this stage. Selling Deluxe editions is a great way to re-monetise them (aswell as kickstart / resell the base games again).
 
Samuspet said:
People really need to get their expectations in check lol…

Spider-Man 2 has to drop as low as 900p when using it’s 60fps RT mode on a 200+ watt 10tflop / high clocked Zen CPU equipped dedicated console.

Yes Switch 2 will have DLSS/RR to help out but they’re not free. In my humble opinion PS5/Series ports will have to run at 540p internal on Switch 2 if targeting RT at 30fps when docked.

Keep an eye out for the internal resolutions on Alan Wake 2 this week on the consoles then keep in mind Switch 2 will be a 20 watt hybrid console and not a 200 watt dedicated console.

Switch 2 will be incredibly impressive but it won’t produce miracles just because of DLSS. RT is also incredibly CPU intensive even when using ray reconstruction.
Click to expand...

Are you talking about my expectation? I stated that 4k/rt is very demanding and not something I expect on every games. I’m fine if the NG was a 4k console like the PS4 was a 4k console
 
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redmutineer75 said:
You're comparing an obviously absurd hypothetical to the current status quo
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What you suggested is just as equally absurd.

ExoticSpice said:
AMD matches Nvidia's features set 95% but their AI/GPU software and RT are not as great at NV.
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It’s more nuanced than people think. For one, yes NV has the better RT performance than AMD. 2, when it comes to delivering the hardware for AI, AMD is not a slouch and very competitive, being able to deliver with as many formats that are possible for ML/AI. The only part they are lacking in is the software and that’s coming along very nicely to support their hardware.

People should not sleep on AMD and write them off, or they’ll be caught with their pants down.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
t’s more nuanced than people think. For one, yes NV has the better RT performance than AMD. 2, when it comes to delivering the hardware for AI, AMD is not a slouch and very competitive, being able to deliver with as many formats that are possible for ML/AI. The only part they are lacking in is the software and that’s coming along very nicely to support their hardware.
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AMD has great AI hardware - they just don't include it in their desktop GPUs. Now that they're in a more financially stable place (thanks Zen), and with Nvidia taking the feature lead, I expect an AI accelerated FSR 4, with their Matrix cores on chip. Especially with Intel and Apple heading the same direction.

ReddDreadtheLead said:
People should not sleep on AMD and write them off, or they’ll be caught with their pants down.
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This is very true. Nvidia is in pole position right now, but AMD has been laying a lot of good groundwork in the background (their fantastic interconnect), and still has the raw raster performance advantage.

And the people who benefit from the situation is us. A healthy AMD is a healthy Nvidia (and a healthy Intel).
 
Samuspet said:
The Smash DLC pack sales are probably tapped out at this stage. Selling Deluxe editions is a great way to re-monetise them (aswell as kickstart / resell the base games again).
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I disagree. With so many people who bought Smash on Switch, just how much more people are left to pick up the game? It definitely ain't gonna be 30M. With BC, anyone who doesn't have the game can still spend $60+DLC and get the same package they would have gotten from a deluxe version. And Nintendo would have made more money
 
Dekuman said:
Unless phones start adding cooling, it's a bit irrelevant. My Pikmin Bloom app throtlles like crazy on my S23 after an hour of planting flowers. Granted I have Google Gaming app set it to power saving mode, still, the drop in perf from when i start walking and at the end of a 1.5 hour walk is noticable.
The alternative is 100% to 40% battery after 1.5 hours.
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Solid-state cooling in phones may happen. That would at least give them a bit more leeway.
 
ReddDreadtheLead said:
Anyway, how about wireless charging capable for switch 2? 🤔🤔🤔
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Qi2's probably out of the question since a certification's required for Qi2 from labs authorised the Wireless Power Consortium (WPC) for Qi2, which does have testing and certification costs. And no devices, including the iPhone 15 and the iPhone 15 Pro, have Qi2 certification.

Qi Extended Profile Power (EPP) currently supports up to 15 W, which does also require certification from WPC, but should theoretically be enough to play and charge at the same time in handheld mode since Nintendo licenced Hori's 15 W car charger for the Nintendo Switch, although heat could be a concern if ShrapnelSP's comment on Reddit's any indication, especially if assuming that the material composition of the actual console shell for Nintendo's new hardware is primarily metal. (Qualcomm used WiPower's technology to enable wireless charging for metal devices back in 2015. But I don't think anyone adopted WiPower's technology.)
 
AoiHana said:
Based on the credits of Xenoblade 2, Xenoblade 1/X and BOTW, it seems like their art and level design teams were the ones who got poached for BOTW, whereas the programming team and a lot of the directorial staff stayed on to do XC2. That probably explains why so much of the graphics and character design were outsourced to other developers and freelancers, as well as the relatively more linear and less expansive levels. The optimization issues, though, I suspect just came down to being crunched for time and having to port the Xenoblade X engine to Switch.
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(Sorry for the off-topic reply train here)

Yeah Xenoblade 2 only had about 40 staff from Monolith Soft working on it, but it still had just as many people working on it all around through outsourced work. People very often mistakenly conflate that Monolith was able to complete such a big game with such a small number of staff, reality is that they had to outsource over a hundred people outside to get it there and that it was a struggle. Development was still tough as nails as the people missing were very crutial for a smoother development internally, and Nintendo had insisted on a December 2017 release for the game.
 
Samuspet said:
People really need to get their expectations in check lol…

Spider-Man 2 has to drop as low as 900p when using it’s 60fps RT mode on a 200+ watt 10tflop / high clocked Zen CPU equipped dedicated console.

Yes Switch 2 will have DLSS/RR to help out but they’re not free. In my humble opinion PS5/Series ports will have to run at 540p internal on Switch 2 if targeting RT at 30fps when docked.

Keep an eye out for the internal resolutions on Alan Wake 2 this week on the consoles then keep in mind Switch 2 will be a 20 watt hybrid console and not a 200 watt dedicated console.

Switch 2 will be incredibly impressive but it won’t produce miracles just because of DLSS. RT is also incredibly CPU intensive even when using ray reconstruction.
Click to expand...

Of course, but Switch 2 really will have so many advantages. It's not just about DLSS and RR, there's the RT cores, more efficient ARM architecture, likely N4P process node vs N7, and potentially even things like low-latency LPDDR5/X being better for RT than GDDR6. It's not going to be on-par with PS5 by any means, sure, but you can't just go "200W vs 20W" and leave it at that.
 
oldpuck said:
This is very true. Nvidia is in pole position right now, but AMD has been laying a lot of good groundwork in the background (their fantastic interconnect), and still has the raw raster performance advantage.

And the people who benefit from the situation is us. A healthy AMD is a healthy Nvidia (and a healthy Intel).
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I just find AMD more reactionary in the GPU space. Its the total opposite in the CPU space.
 
BreakAtmo said:
Of course, but Switch 2 really will have so many advantages. It's not just about DLSS and RR, there's the RT cores, more efficient ARM architecture, likely N4P process node vs N7, and potentially even things like low-latency LPDDR5/X being better for RT than GDDR6. It's not going to be on-par with PS5 by any means, sure, but you can't just go "200W vs 20W" and leave it at that.
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I think that, if we want to be realistic, we should expect that titles that take advantage of PS5 and SX, with the version for Nintendo consoles will have some cuts and limitations, but it will not require more than a year of work from a specific team like TW3 for Switch.
This will be a big plus about TP support.
Where I think our eyes will experience pure joy in seeing the graphics power of the new console exploited will be in the Nintendo exclusives.
 
Pokemaniac said:
There is at least some documentation that disc contents appear to be being ignored for Smart Delivery games. I suspect you're confusing the ability to do a sort of "fake native" game with how fully native games work.

As for Xbox One X and PS4 Pro, I don't think you're quite getting the distinction I'm drawing here. Whether support was added via patch or existed from release, a PS4 Pro or an Xbox One X is going to see the same files as a PS4 or Xbox One would. On the other hand it is actually impossible to turn a PS4 or Xbox One game into a PS5 or Xbox Series game via patch (though Xbox certainly likes to pretend that's what's happening). Both consoles are set up so that an entirely separate build is required which can't share any data with the last gen version. The most a patch can do is detect that it's running on the newer system and adjust settings accordingly for what the hardware is capable of.
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Ok you win. I could swear next gen patches was a thing on Xbox, but it seems it isnt.

Edit: seems it is, it just isn't that significant.

This is the withcher 3 next gen update

"
The Witcher 3 Next-Gen update appears to have a download size of around 35-40GB. That was our experience during the "hands-on impressions" period, although further optimisations may alter the size prior to launch on Wednesday.

If you're downloading the entire version of the game from scratch, you're probably looking at over 50GB."

So you save about 10-15gb by updating compared to downloading in this particular game. Which means they have some common files, but most of the files are replaced.

Seems it varies wildly on a case by case basis.

www.purexbox.com

The Witcher 3 Next-Gen Release Date, Release Times, Download Size Details On Xbox

Everything you need to know
www.purexbox.com www.purexbox.com
 
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redmutineer75 said:
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here. Is it just me, or does the concept of Nintendo making enhanced ports of Switch games with all DLC (e.g. MK8D, SSBU) not make any sense? People say "oh, they can just charge $70 for an old game" but wouldn’t they want people to pay, for example, $115 for SSBU and the Fighter Passes? For the Switch ports of Wii U games, it made sense since there was no BC, but assuming this system does, rereleasing them doesn't make sense when they can already charge more than full price.
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What they do is largely going to depend on how (relatively) easy it could be to successfully apply DLSS to Switch titles. If it's really straightforward, I could easily see Nintendo throwing a sticker on Switch titles noting a performance update that re-caps framerates at 60fps and caps resolution at whatever is the ideal setting for DLSS and running it against these games through a patch. If it's a fair bit more involved in that, I could see a fee being applied to get games running like that but otherwise offering a free patch to set a new framerate and resolution cap that's higher than what the game had on Switch.
If the primary selling point for a remaster is included DLC and a visual update, I think Nintendo knows as well as anyone that remasters of some games would mean releasing the same game a 3rd time, which would undoubtedly rankle their customer base, especially if they can provide one of those 2 things to keep getting evergreen sales from new software buyers until the release of a new version that justifies itself with a new gameplay offering.
ReddDreadtheLead said:
It’s more nuanced than people think. For one, yes NV has the better RT performance than AMD. 2, when it comes to delivering the hardware for AI, AMD is not a slouch and very competitive, being able to deliver with as many formats that are possible for ML/AI. The only part they are lacking in is the software and that’s coming along very nicely to support their hardware.

People should not sleep on AMD and write them off, or they’ll be caught with their pants down.
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I think people look at Intel's first GPU offerings being so capable (especially with XeSS being so competitive with DLSS right out of the gate) and get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that AMD has rested on their laurels a bit too much, especially how they're missing the moment in terms of key hardware accelerator features right now. Especially when one considers that Intel and Nvidia aren't going to simply sit still and let AMD catch up if they can avoid it.
No one is "sleeping" on AMD, we're watching them diligently as they remain behind the curve and relying too heavily on their raw performance advantage to make meaningful gains on Nvidia and run the low to moderate risk of being passed by Intel if they don't do something.
 
Hermii said:
Ok you win. I could swear next gen patches was a thing on Xbox, but it seems it isnt.
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You can sort of functionally do next gen patches, but that's not really how the system works internally. It's either still running in BC or it's a full redownload.

That said, I do think the idea of "fake" next gen patches where the game is still running under BC, but it can adjust settings based on platform is a valuable innovation from Xbox Series (and I think PS5, too) that Nintendo would probably do well to copy, even if their solution allows for true next-gen patches. Having an option with a lower barrier to entry like that encourages more patches that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
 
Dakhil said:
TSMC's 4N process node is a custom variant of TSMC's N4 process node, not TSMC's N4P process node.
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Does that matter? I was assuming that the Drake chip would be made on the more recent version of TSMC 5nm - do we have specific evidence that it's 4N?

Eclissi said:
I think that, if we want to be realistic, we should expect that titles that take advantage of PS5 and SX, with the version for Nintendo consoles will have some cuts and limitations, but it will not require more than a year of work from a specific team like TW3 for Switch.
This will be a big plus about TP support.
Where I think our eyes will experience pure joy in seeing the graphics power of the new console exploited will be in the Nintendo exclusives.
Click to expand...

Oh, I agree. There will be cuts in the big modern third-party games, and Nintendo exclusives will look crazy partly because they'll lean a lot on art direction over raw visual grunt. I just wanted to make clear that a simple comparison of power draws was misleading. The way things are looking, docked Switch 2 will be maybe one-third of the PS5's power but with better RT and DLSS. I'd like to hope for more, but it's not likely.
 
Samuspet said:
See some people online being disappointed visually with Spider-Man 2 when compared to the PS4 original despite exclusively being on a console which is a massive leap over the ancient tech inside PS4. (I’m playing it at the moment and think it’s ridiculously good looking to be clear).

Diminishing returns are very real despite some online saying they weren’t for the past decade. Cross gen games make things even worse.

Switch 2 exclusives especially the larger budget titles like 3D Mario, Mario Kart and Zelda will definitely be a large visual leap but I can’t see the likes of the mid to lower budget titles like Yoshi, Kirby, Animal Crossing, Mario Sports titles etc being that big a leap over what we have on Switch but at 4k instead of 900p.
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I think the game looks great too and diminishing returns are definitely a thing since people cannot even notice the visual leaps in this game. Even when you take into account the Spider-Man Remaster and MM being cross gen the gradual leaps in their engine aren't being noticed. I booted up the base PS4 version of Spider-Man 2018 and the jump is clear as day but for a 5-year-old game on last gen hardware that game holds up quite well. Hell, it looks good on the PS4 Pro too. But just a minute of playing revealed to me where they cut corners. The swinging even at max feels much slower and the LOD was instantly noticeable, same with draw distance, lighting, pop-in, and the character models. I think console gamers want it all, they want a 60fps Matrix demo on consoles but that's just not happening. I do think this might be short-lived until devs start targeting 30fps to jack up visuals again.

So far the only disappointment I've had with the SM2 visuals are the RT reflections tbh. They are noticeably lower poly and incredibly blurry and just unimpressive. But that will probably improve on the PS5 Pro or when it comes to PC. I wonder if they can possibly be bugged since the game has quite a few bugs I'm noticing. The pedestrians also look really rough at times. I wonder how PC will handle the streaming speed issues that come with this game. This game is going to make the Steam Deck feel dated imo.

It also has me wondering what the fidelity of RT on 2witch will be on average. I also want to know what memory bandwidth and internal storage speed Nintendo would need to get traversal speed in this fast in the next Zelda or a hypothetical open-world game from them. I'm still leaning towards UFS 3.1 being a good starting point. I haven't noticed any egregious pop-in yet, it's really impressive. And I'd imagine Nintendo can do more with less since their games are never aiming for photo realism and high life like levels of detail. I'd argue they'd aim to deliver an even more consistent game visually speaking. BoTW and ToTK are a solid example of this. Sure the games are incredibly rough in spots but it's never as bad as when hyperrealistic games have these rough patches of low poly areas or terribly low-quality texture work.
 
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Samuspet said:
People really need to get their expectations in check lol…

Spider-Man 2 has to drop as low as 900p when using it’s 60fps RT mode on a 200+ watt 10tflop / high clocked Zen CPU equipped dedicated console.

Yes Switch 2 will have DLSS/RR to help out but they’re not free. In my humble opinion PS5/Series ports will have to run at 540p internal on Switch 2 if targeting RT at 30fps when docked.

Keep an eye out for the internal resolutions on Alan Wake 2 this week on the consoles then keep in mind Switch 2 will be a 20 watt hybrid console and not a 200 watt dedicated console.

Switch 2 will be incredibly impressive but it won’t produce miracles just because of DLSS. RT is also incredibly CPU intensive even when using ray reconstruction.
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Interesting...

When it comes to RT, I don't care too much about 3rd party ports. But imagine a 3d Mario game with PS4 fidelity running at 60fs with RT on.. 1080p 60fps with DLSS. It's gonna look amazing.

Kind of makes you think of Totk port with RT.
ILikeFeet said:
I disagree. With so many people who bought Smash on Switch, just how much more people are left to pick up the game? It definitely ain't gonna be 30M. With BC, anyone who doesn't have the game can still spend $60+DLC and get the same package they would have gotten from a deluxe version. And Nintendo would have made more money
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They could either repackage it like MK8D Deluxe with more content/modes overall + introduce more dlc waves. Of course 4k resolution, upgrades textures, lighting, etc

or offer free or $10 upgrades to migrate switch to Switch 2 version+ with a patch to increase 4k and other performance stuff.

I think the former is better long term if they don't want to make a new smash from scratch. The latter would be an they wound likely make a new smash entirely in a few years after. I guess one gas to ask if MK8D would be backwards compatible too.
 
Pokemaniac said:
You can sort of functionally do next gen patches, but that's not really how the system works internally. It's either still running in BC or it's a full redownload.

That said, I do think the idea of "fake" next gen patches where the game is still running under BC, but it can adjust settings based on platform is a valuable innovation from Xbox Series (and I think PS5, too) that Nintendo would probably do well to copy, even if their solution allows for true next-gen patches. Having an option with a lower barrier to entry like that encourages more patches that wouldn't have happened otherwise.
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I edited my post. It seems like some sort of patching is possible, which saves you some space compared to download from scratch. But not that much.
 
Terrell said:
I think people look at Intel's first GPU offerings being so capable (especially with XeSS being so competitive with DLSS right out of the gate) and get the impression (rightly or wrongly) that AMD has rested on their laurels a bit too much, especially how they're missing the moment in terms of key hardware accelerator features right now. Especially when one considers that Intel and Nvidia aren't going to simply sit still and let AMD catch up if they can avoid it.
No one is "sleeping" on AMD, we're watching them diligently as they remain behind the curve and relying too heavily on their raw performance advantage to make meaningful gains on Nvidia and run the low to moderate risk of being passed by Intel if they don't do something.
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XeSS wasn’t really that competitive right out the gate to DLSS, it fell short and needed another version to look good.

People sleep on them all the time and have paid zero attention to what they are actually doing in the background only to lambast them on “oh it’s missing this or it’s missing that” when those features already exist in another sector they operate in or they already dabbled in it before but the market responded negatively to it.

Hardware accelerators like Tensor Cores are something people keep bringing up as a necessity for them to compete, and how they have nothing of equal in their stack. If people looked one second away from the desktop Gaming space and looked towards HPC and DC products, they’d find what they are looking for right there. People base their entire opinion of disdain towards AMD based on Desktop and a few years of really bad products compared to its biggest competitor, but ignore the good ones or the big strides that they offer

Intel’s GPU offerings have so many issues still and they will need generations to iron them out.

A lot of their desktop decisions come from what their biggest costumers pay them to research and develop to implement into their hardware, ie the consoles. That isn’t to say AMD has no will of their own, they do, but Sony and MS greatly influence with lots of 0s on a check.

HPC is different and a very much their own thing type of beast. Intel has and still has subpar offerings for a GPU at that scale, and AMD is able to deliver a single package of both a GPU and CPU that has been helping them a lot in gaining share the last few years.

Nvidia is still the most relevant in the GPU HPC/DC side, but AMD is still the most competitive with that regard, and that package of a good GPU+Good CPU is irresistible. :p
 
Hermii said:
I edited my post. It seems like some sort of patching is possible, which saves you some space compared to download from scratch. But not that much.
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It's possible there's some download time optimizations around files that haven't changed for upgrades, since that's something Microsoft could generate ahead of time, but the core point is that the system internally draws a very hard line between an Xbox One build and an Xbox Series build and in a way that interacts particularly badly with how physical media on Xbox works. Discs are seemingly forced to have a full copy of both, which means in practice most just ship the Xbox One version.
 
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ShadowFox08 said:
They could either repackage it like MK8D Deluxe with more content/modes overall + introduce more dlc waves. Of course 4k resolution, upgrades textures, lighting, etc

or offer free or $10 upgrades to migrate switch to Switch 2 version+ with a patch to increase 4k and other performance stuff.

I think the former is better long term if they don't want to make a new smash from scratch. The latter would be an they wound likely make a new smash entirely in a few years after. I guess one gas to ask if MK8D would be backwards compatible too.
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For all the work for the former, they're better off making a new game, I think. Getting the band back together doesn't seem worth it otherwise as they went back to their respective roles.

BC pretty much solves a lot of the problems. Don't have to do anything, maybe patch in enhanced BC support (like dynamic res up to 4K) and that's it
 
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ReddDreadtheLead said:
XeSS wasn’t really that competitive right out the gate to DLSS, it fell short and needed another version to look good.

People sleep on them all the time and have paid zero attention to what they are actually doing in the background only to lambast them on “oh it’s missing this or it’s missing that” when those features already exist in another sector they operate in or they already dabbled in it before but the market responded negatively to it.

Hardware accelerators like Tensor Cores are something people keep bringing up as a necessity for them to compete, and how they have nothing of equal in their stack. If people looked one second away from the desktop Gaming space and looked towards HPC and DC products, they’d find what they are looking for right there. People base their entire opinion of disdain towards AMD based on Desktop and a few years of really bad products compared to its biggest competitor, but ignore the good ones or the big strides that they offer

Intel’s GPU offerings have so many issues still and they will need generations to iron them out.

A lot of their desktop decisions come from what their biggest costumers pay them to research and develop to implement into their hardware, ie the consoles. That isn’t to say AMD has no will of their own, they do, but Sony and MS greatly influence with lots of 0s on a check.

HPC is different and a very much their own thing type of beast. Intel has and still has subpar offerings for a GPU at that scale, and AMD is able to deliver a single package of both a GPU and CPU that has been helping them a lot in gaining share the last few years.

Nvidia is still the most relevant in the GPU HPC/DC side, but AMD is still the most competitive with that regard, and that package of a good GPU+Good CPU is irresistible. :p
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Why am I looking away from the consumer space? There is literally no point to looking at a feature in an enterprise product that they have made literally ZERO intimation of incorporating in the consumer side of their business, either for commercial GPUs or custom SoCs. RDNA4 allegedly won't feature Matrix cores and RDNA5 is probably another 5-6 years away.

I'm sure it's lovely that AMD has a nice comfy foothold in data centres and high-performance computing. But until they give even one single indication that such work either is or will be transferrable to the consumer product line, I have no reason to care, in contrast to Nvidia and Intel, who are all too eager to take work in one field and immediately re-purpose it in another.

Intel's major failing has been mostly limited to having no older DirectX implementation than DX11. On modern DX12 games, it's purported to be great, on older games... ehh, not so much. And XeSS was mostly only missing dynamic resolution; as a first effort with VERY minimal updating since, it was reported by PC enthusiasts as quite competitive with DLSS as a first-swing attempt back in late 2022 when it was introduced for the very first time. Here's what Alex at DF said in September of last year:
I can summarise my overall findings and the good news is that on its first attempt, Intel has delivered an upscaling technology that's comparable to DLSS and similar to the Nvidia technique, can exceed the quality of native resolution rendering with standard TAA. There is still some work for Intel though. For starters, the moiré effect stands out as one of its clearest weaknesses. Even DLSS is not completely immune to this, but XeSS clearly presents this artefact in more scenarios. This is definitely the biggest difference seen between XeSS, DLSS and native resolution rendering and the area where I think Intel still needs to do the most work.
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And wouldn't you know it, the very first update to v1.1 in early 2023 was improving the mentioned gripe with the moiré effect, and the next added dynamic res. So... do we not trust DF anymore, or....?
 
redmutineer75 said:
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here. Is it just me, or does the concept of Nintendo making enhanced ports of Switch games with all DLC (e.g. MK8D, SSBU) not make any sense? People say "oh, they can just charge $70 for an old game" but wouldn’t they want people to pay, for example, $115 for SSBU and the Fighter Passes? For the Switch ports of Wii U games, it made sense since there was no BC, but assuming this system does, rereleasing them doesn't make sense when they can already charge more than full price.
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Nintendo did ports/remasters of Wii U games, because the console was a sale failure, it would be so anti-consumer, if Nintendo sell a Super Mario Odyssey or any of Switch bigest release on it next hardware, is the same of Sony, making you pay $70/90 for the rumored the Last of Us Part 2 remaster/remake, ideally they should do a patch/update that enchace said games,not made us pay $70/90 just for Breath of the Wild/Tears of the Kingdom at 4K 60fps
 
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redmutineer75 said:
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here. Is it just me, or does the concept of Nintendo making enhanced ports of Switch games with all DLC (e.g. MK8D, SSBU) not make any sense? People say "oh, they can just charge $70 for an old game" but wouldn’t they want people to pay, for example, $115 for SSBU and the Fighter Passes? For the Switch ports of Wii U games, it made sense since there was no BC, but assuming this system does, rereleasing them doesn't make sense when they can already charge more than full price.
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Deluxe editions (with performance/visual improvements) only make sense in a Switch to Switch 2 context if Nintendo also offers an upgrade path for existing users. Otherwise yeah it makes no sense and wouldn't yield as much profit for Nintendo as people believe.

For Smash specifically, I think Nintendo and Sakurai will move on to a full new entry rather than doing a Smash Ultimate Deluxe edition, a new entry will generate far more buzz and money than reheating the same game with a few small additions (also who knows what the licensing contracts actually involve and if Nintendo has to renegotiate, they might as well do it for a brand new game)
 
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redmutineer75 said:
I would post this on the software thread, but that's clearly dead, so I'll just do so here.
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This is a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. If no one posts about software in the software thread, it will absolutely be dead.

For discussing actual Switch 2 games, said Switch 2 thread, General Discussion, the Nintendo First Party Software Development, or even all the different game specific threads might be a better option than here, which has always been more specific to the nitty gritty tech details of new Switch hardware.

Don't let this discourage you from posting wherever you want, but you will always catch more fish with a bigger net.
 
Just wanna say, to lower my own expectations, and maybe others:
I'm perfectly fine if Switch2 outputs mainly 1080p image, 30fps/60fps but with huge amounts of stuff in on the screen, more fidelity, better grass, more stuff in RAM, better textures, better AI for NPC.

Just saying, I played ToTK on 65" 4k television, and i was mighty impressed, i don't have the best eyesight, so when they add more stuff that makes the world seem more real and living. I'm going to be so impressed and gushing. I don't mind as long as it's not 360p :D

And IF they get all that, and up the resolution even more? Dynamically up it to whatever 1080p+ it can with DSLL. Yes please! As long as we don't get pixelated mess.
 
forgenator said:
Just wanna say, to lower my own expectations, and maybe others:
I'm perfectly fine if Switch2 outputs mainly 1080p image, 30fps/60fps but with huge amounts of stuff in on the screen, more fidelity, better grass, more stuff in RAM, better textures, better AI for NPC.

Just saying, I played ToTK on 65" 4k television, and i was mighty impressed, i don't have the best eyesight, so when they add more stuff that makes the world seem more real and living. I'm going to be so impressed and gushing. I don't mind as long as it's not 360p :D

And IF they get all that, and up the resolution even more? Dynamically up it to whatever 1080p+ it can with DSLL. Yes please! As long as we don't get pixelated mess.
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my personal expectations would be between 1080p and 1440p for docked while handheld would hopefully hover between 900p and 1080.

Actually hitting 4k even with dlss won't be as prevalent nor does it need to be to look good on a 4K TV (imo).

Also Switch 2 actually having a 4K option output might still help regardless as far as how TV upscalers work.
 
Adulfzen said:
my personal expectations would be between 1080p and 1440p for docked while handheld would hopefully hover between 900p and 1080.

Actually hitting 4k even with dlss won't be as prevalent nor does it need to be to look good on a 4K TV (imo).

Also Switch 2 actually having a 4K option output might still help regardless as far as how TV upscalers work.
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if DLSS is built as part of the SoC whey would they be targeting 1080p and not something higher?
 
kvetcha said:
I think only the fact that 4N is Nvidia-specific and they are known to have the capacity reserved.
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Dakhil said:
TSMC's 4N process node is the only process node Nvidia's using for all current data centre and consumer products (here, here, and here) since as kvetcha mentioned, TSMC's 4N process node's customised specifically for Nvidia's purposes.
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Ah, thanks. I was thinking that Drake being custom might mean that what other chips were using wouldn't be relevant, but if there's that consistent a pattern of NVIDIA chips using 4N, I agree that's more likely.
 
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Dekuman said:
if DLSS is built as part of the SoC whey would they be targeting 1080p and not something higher?
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1080p docked would be for the games that are most intensive and/or targetting 60 fps because of the latency issues as you push for higher through DLSS
 
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I think how "low" they go with the res and what DLSS'd res will be targeted is going to vary from game to game and team/developer to team/developer.

And then there will be Shin'en who will push native 8K without DLSS or anything similar. (Yes it's a joke.)
 
forgenator said:
Just wanna say, to lower my own expectations, and maybe others:
I'm perfectly fine if Switch2 outputs mainly 1080p image, 30fps/60fps but with huge amounts of stuff in on the screen, more fidelity, better grass, more stuff in RAM, better textures, better AI for NPC.

Just saying, I played ToTK on 65" 4k television, and i was mighty impressed, i don't have the best eyesight, so when they add more stuff that makes the world seem more real and living. I'm going to be so impressed and gushing. I don't mind as long as it's not 360p :D

And IF they get all that, and up the resolution even more? Dynamically up it to whatever 1080p+ it can with DSLL. Yes please! As long as we don't get pixelated mess.
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I mean that's not really lowing expectations imo. Honestly 1080p with really good AA is fine on a 4k screen, unless your putting your nose on it. Again for a lot of us, I think the end of Jaggies is really exciting, and that's what I think DLSS is ushering in.

Hopefully there aren't too many DLSS artifacts appearing in games. I assume first party titles will probably never be an issue, but I can see it in some ambitious third party games. 360p to 1080p DLSS is never gonna look perfect.
 
Hello, I have been a lurker few months now.
I would like to ask a question, is it possible, to slowdown an M.2 SSD from 5.4 Gb/s to 1Gb/s (minimal requirement EU5) or 2.1Gb/s (UFS 3.1),
to reduce power consumption and reduce heat, to an acceptable level as memory expansion for the switch 2?
 
mjayer said:
I mean that's not really lowing expectations imo. Honestly 1080p with really good AA is fine on a 4k screen, unless your putting your nose on it. Again for a lot of us, I think the end of Jaggies is really exciting, and that's what I think DLSS is ushering in.

Hopefully there aren't too many DLSS artifacts appearing in games. I assume first party titles will probably never be an issue, but I can see it in some ambitious third party games. 360p to 1080p DLSS is never gonna look perfect.
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Yeah, the last part im worrying, lazy devs making straight ports and think DLSS will just fix everything!
 
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