Threeman
Cappy
Being quoted count a new message no ?
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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)
- Thread starter Dakhil
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carbvan
Chain Chomp
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Yeah, theoretically handhelds Switch 1 games should perform much better on Switch 2. As long as Nintendo's backwards compatibility solution isn't just simply emulating the Switch and getting the games to function, games will most likely have patches to make them run better. Obviously we don't know what they have planned for BC, but between the custom SOC, more RAM, faster memory, etc, the console has the beef to get handheld mode to look way closer to docked with the Switch 2 than with the Switch 1.
Giancarlo
the Baby
my bedroom is too small to house a cabinet, i might need to use my Switch carrying case to store Switch sucessor(ounce i have the console)Now the leak express has slowed down, you could use your free time to prepare your game cabinet for Switch 2:
omniryu
Koopa
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No, you're on to something.. I think the second memory chip will be use a scratch off tool. Nintendo will have scratch off tickets for their new gimmick.
Genius
Giancarlo
the Baby
that turtle ladybug character, seen a perfect fit for a eventual Pikmin 5 on Switch sucessor(runing on UE5)wonder how nintendo artists are adapting to a higher power system ? a sneak peak :
and from another artist
P4bl0
Legend
Ounce is Oz
HankyPanky
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just watched a few videos about the N64 Recompilation tool which translates N64 to PC code and runs low level to allow all sorts of enhancements, very clever. if hobbyists can do this in their spare time surely Nvidia/Nintendo can do something equivalent to this for Switch BC and even handling VC content.
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We don't have evidence Nintendo's actually calls it that. We don't even have confirmation that it's Ounce - or that it doesn't mean the cat.
There just isn't evidence "Oz" or "OZ" is used, and I don't think drawing questionable equivalents helps that too awful much.
OP
OP
I also do stand corrected. I was also wrong about Samsung only providing 32-bit 4 GB (32 Gb) LPDDR5X modules since Samsung does have a listing for 64-bit 4 GB LPDDR5X modules.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Pikmin
Yeah, this would be awesome for them adding redone controls and 16:9 for N64 games.
Probably won’t happen unfortunately.
bernbern345
Rattata
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Thank you I know it’s all speculation but I enjoy speculating on what we might see. I’ve been on here a lot recently as I’m just so excited for new Nintendo hardware. Feel I’ve been ready for a while.
Giancarlo
the Baby
Nintendo always use high quality renders for promotional material on marketing and games marketing, so Nintendo artist are kinda of preparing for high quality assestsyeah,even if they wont use it at work most artists are always researching new technology on free time,they not learning just now
some even have experience with the publicity renders who are really high poly
Steve
Tingle
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I’m extremely exciting seeing all the new games they’ve been cooking up.
Like 3D Mario, Monolith soft and Next level games and much more, like the next Xenoblade game or Monolith new IP is gonna look insane.
Like I’m extremely intrigued seeing how they’ll utilise Ray tracing the most, since this is probably the first time Nintendo aren’t constraining themself with the hardware, since the technology is there in a good budget compare to the Switch, which was something entirely brand new and nothing even seen before.
Also the custom chip, looks extremely promising
Like 4k/60 3D Mario with ray tracing is making me bricked upped.
Individualised
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I tried to tell people this but no one seemed interested. Only one guy claims to have a source who told him "Oz" last year, and I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that it could have been a communication error (someone shortened "Ounce" as "Oz", source saw that and thought "Oz" was the actual codename)
Well as long as everyone understands what you mean, what does it matter what Nintendos internal terminology is?
If people want to call it electric bugaloo, let them.
Angel Whispers
Follow me at @angelpagecdlmhq
Correct. Here is the link on A78C from ARM’s official site. Or, note the bolded part and diagrams below, which points out the difference.
New architecture features for enhanced compute performance
Cortex-A78C enables more homogeneous multi big core computing, with support for up to 8 big CPU core clusters. The octacore (up to 8 big CPU cores) configurations lead to more scalable multi-threaded performance improvements when compared to Cortex-A78, which supports 4 big CPU core and 4 little CPU core (Cortex-A55) configurations in the DynamIQ shared unit. Big.LITTLE is the de-facto standard in mobile (and will remain so in the future). However, the 8 core configurations of Cortex-A78C unleash the multi-threaded performance required for demanding digital immersion workloads, such as gaming on-the-go and all-day productivity. Cortex-A78C also increases the L3 cache memory to 8MB, which helps to further improve performance, especially for workloads with large datasets.
Up to 8 'big' core support with Cortex-A78C
These enhanced features are ideal for enabling high performance, heavily threaded workloads, such as ‘physics’ in gaming and professional productivity applications.
I raised this point in the past about the quoted slide. It has up to 60GB/s bandwidth. It’s not clear whether that would be in addition to the 120GB/s or not. I think @darthdiablo mentioned unified memory the other day, and if that’s the case, then a possible total 180GB/s available would be more than most anticipated. It seems most have missed it on here, but bandwidth doesn’t appear to be available or mentioned on the other processors.
A78 and A78C are different. The official ARM site is quite explicit about this.
P4bl0
Legend
Fr what is this policing again
I’ll call the Switch 2 “Nemesis” going forward
And ? We are not writing a press release we are communicating between players on a forum, policing code names is too extra when everyone is clueless
We have evidence that it starts with an O, that’s enough, if people want to call it Orange or Oyster it’s all good
OctoSplattack
Tingle
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The entire reason people are hemming and hawwing about the codename is because they want to figure out what Nintendo is calling it internally. It's why we spent literal days going back-and-forth on whether the codename was Muji or Ounce.
Of course we wanted to know, because it's cool knowing and figuring things out. A codename has no inherent value, Oz or Ounce has no relation to the device it's just a name.
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But what’s the point of knowing that ? O could stand for OZ, Ounce, Ohio or Owen Wilson and it wouldn’t tell us anything about the system
And Oz is a shortening for Ounce. So telling people not to call it the former, is really splitting hairs.
Steve
Tingle
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Oz or ounce is making me go insane, since Nintendo are calling it NX2 or Switch successor (y’all can’t comprehend that I’m capable of predicting the future)
oldpuck
Koopa
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There is not. It’s exactly the same as docked. Docked has more power, so that it can hit higher resolutions, but there is no frame cap.
It can. That doesn’t mean it will. Letting games have access to extra power can cause bugs.
It is up to Nintendo if they choose to do it automatically, and risk bugs, or require patches. I think Nintendo will require patches
bernbern345
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Well said. My big hope is game like Xenoblade 2 let us play in 720p in handheld mode as opposed to what is it like 302p? Plus also would love games with dynamic resolution and frame rate targets to hit the higher end like more than 20% of the time.
bernbern345
Rattata
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Oh I agree I can’t wait to see new games as well as third party ports uncompromised. I just hope we get something for switch 1 content since we never got the switch pro.
Look over there
Bob-omb
So, yea, looks like I've been gone for half a year at least. Nothing really bad happened, but just got busy enough to not be able to keep up anymore. Sorry to make anybody worry!
...and it seems like with the influx of people/attention, the thread will continue to move fast enough that I probably won't be able to properly keep up. So if/when I do continue to post, not unlikely for me to end up repeating stuff others have said, so I apologize ahead of time :/
Other than that, I take it that vibes are generally good for Nintendo, and a helluva lot more mixed for the rest of the industry.
But really, as I'm sure we've collectively gone over, it wasn't an unlikely option.
The real magic trick would be if I were to somehow will into existence the L3 cache getting customized to something larger than the standard amount.
So, off the shelf, an A78C cluster could go up to 8 MB of L3 cache. Here's my wishlist item (from Sep 2022!?):
But again, what you should expect is no more than the default limit of 8 MB. I'm just saying, if it ever ends up being customized to a higher amount, I'm coming back to respond with 'Abra kadabra!'
Or 'Alakazam!'. Depending on the number of spoons.
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The 60 GB/s bandwidth mentioned for the A78C should be referring to the L3 cache's bandwidth.
ARM doesn't talk about DRAM bandwidth, IIRC. ARM definitely talked about L3 cache bandwidth with the DSU-110 in 2021.
...and it seems like with the influx of people/attention, the thread will continue to move fast enough that I probably won't be able to properly keep up. So if/when I do continue to post, not unlikely for me to end up repeating stuff others have said, so I apologize ahead of time :/
Other than that, I take it that vibes are generally good for Nintendo, and a helluva lot more mixed for the rest of the industry.
Presto!
But really, as I'm sure we've collectively gone over, it wasn't an unlikely option.
The real magic trick would be if I were to somehow will into existence the L3 cache getting customized to something larger than the standard amount.
So, off the shelf, an A78C cluster could go up to 8 MB of L3 cache. Here's my wishlist item (from Sep 2022!?):
But again, what you should expect is no more than the default limit of 8 MB. I'm just saying, if it ever ends up being customized to a higher amount, I'm coming back to respond with 'Abra kadabra!'
Or 'Alakazam!'. Depending on the number of spoons.
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The 60 GB/s bandwidth mentioned for the A78C should be referring to the L3 cache's bandwidth.
ARM doesn't talk about DRAM bandwidth, IIRC. ARM definitely talked about L3 cache bandwidth with the DSU-110 in 2021.
Imo it would even be a small miracle if Nintendo maxed it out. Having An L3 at all, is entirely optional.
bernbern345
Rattata
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I assume indies. I think all the triple a publishers have a dev kit at this point.
Steve
Tingle
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who knows, since I’m expecting all the Japanese developers have the Dev-Kit, meanwhile western developers are probably a bit skeptical of the Switch 2 transition or maybe don’t have the budget to develop for it.
But who knows, maybe Nintendo showed them the device and convinced them to develop games for it.
Giancarlo
the Baby
i believe only Nintendo closest third-parties have Switch sucessor devkit, soon indies and others developers will get Switch sucessor devkit
I think he was just talking in terms of, we can easily port our ps4 catalogue.
OctoSplattack
Tingle
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I think it's fair to assume that a good number of indies that have inquired about it probably don't have a dev kit outside maybe some select studios Nintendo has directly worked with before, like Brace Yourself Games or SFB Games.
Mid-2016 is when I think most devs started getting NX kits, though, so we might see a similar timeline here?
Steve
Tingle
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I’m guessing team cherry probably has it for Silksong… since I’m probably delusional to think that it’ll be one of the indies games to launch the system with, something like shovel knight with the Switch launch.
Yeah… makes sense since he said ‘’Given the closer alignment to Gen8 platforms in terms of performance and our previous offerings on PS4 / Xbox One, it is reasonable to assume we could make something compelling for the NG Switch as well. It would be helpful to secure early access to development hardware prototypes and prove that out nice and early."
With his wording, it seems he doesn’t know the full extent of the hardware capabilities, since Nintendo were probably extremely hesitant saying it’s capabilities to somehow who has a big mouth.
Random, but I'd love to talk about the LCD screen. It's the one thing Nintendo has almost certainly (and rightfully) "cheaped" out on which I'm totally okay with since it keeps the price down and I'd rather they spend money on the 12gigs of ram than on an OLED screen. I expect there's going to be a more expensive OLED edition of the Switch 2 with 512gigs of internal storage space down the line...
That being said, what's happened in the world of LCD screens since 2017? have there been any advancements that can kind-of sort-of get closer to an OLED experience? is there a particular kind of screen that Nintendo should ideally go for? I love the "confirmed" specs of the Switch 2 so far and I don't think anybody expected they'd go for the newer LPDDR5X. We might be pleasantly surprised that Nintendo might opt for a pretty good LCD screen instead of something cheap and standard-fare.
That being said, what's happened in the world of LCD screens since 2017? have there been any advancements that can kind-of sort-of get closer to an OLED experience? is there a particular kind of screen that Nintendo should ideally go for? I love the "confirmed" specs of the Switch 2 so far and I don't think anybody expected they'd go for the newer LPDDR5X. We might be pleasantly surprised that Nintendo might opt for a pretty good LCD screen instead of something cheap and standard-fare.
Steve
Tingle
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I personally think LCD has improved quite a bit, a good example of a fantastic LCD screen, is probably the PS portal, it looks really good from what I’ve seen from YouTubers and has HDR functionality.
But I’m guessing the Switch 2 will have a lcd screen similar to the steam deck, but with the inclusion of HDR.
Look over there
Bob-omb
I dunno; since we do know that there are 8 cores in the cluster, going small with the L3 would be odd.
(and for the readers, I certainly should at least expect an L3 cache at all; cause otherwise, I imagine a lack of any shared cache to be less than ideal for inter core communication).
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Here's a semi-random follow up to... the DSU (DynamIQ Shared Unit, IE the CPU cluster)<->memory bandwidth topic since it's sticking around in my mind. Also, file this one under "Wow, I didn't realize this back then, but upon re-reading, this is so obvious, silly me."
"The new DSU can scale up to 4x AMBA CHI ports, meaning we’ll have up to 1024-bit total bi-directional bandwidth to the system memory. With a theoretical DSU clock of around 2GHz this would enable bandwidth of up to 256GB/s reads or writes, or double that when combined, plenty enough to be able to saturate also eventual high-end laptop configurations."
So the bandwidth into/out of the DSU is just the width of the interface multiplied by the DSU's clock. No duh, right?
As for the A78C, according to the image found here, it's either 128 or 256-bit wide.
Therefore, realistically, don't expect a particularly high bandwidth as far as going into/out of the DSU.
But that's okay. Remember, this would be mainly relevant for CPU <-> system memory data transfers. CPU workloads, particularly outside of 'productivity', typically don't need that much bandwidth. I guess it could also be relevant if cache stashing by the GPU were used, but ehh, I never expected a reliance on that.
And again, this is the CPU cluster. The GPU is not inside this, so it'll have no impact on GPU <-> system memory data transfer.
NateDrake
Chain Chomp
There is no answer to the question because any such answer is dependent on timing. Priority partners will get the earliest devkits, which would be early prototypes. Then lower priority partners would get the prototypes at a later date. Final devkits can follow a similar wave of distribution strategy.
SpaceGodzilla
"The Baby"
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hi Nate, i know you said you were going to do a video on the leaked specs but are you also going to do a Direct speculation video or are you going to combine the 2?
Steve
Tingle
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Huh, thanks for the insight Nate. also I never knew that Dev-kits prototype were a thing.
I always expected that Dev-Kits were finished and after that they would immediately give it away to higher priority partners that are trusted not the leak stuff.
bernbern345
Rattata
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Idk why we’re giving Bobby kotick too much credit here. I’m assuming he doesn’t know a lot about the tech.
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User ID is "Raccoon" (0)
Thanks!
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oldpuck
Koopa
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Glad you’re good! But honestly if you sweep in, completely solve the RAM question in 2022, and just continue taking Ws for every leak, your legacy is gonna be secure.
Raccoon
Fox Brigade
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this actually has to be the number; mine is 24, yours is 4193. they're at the end of the profile urls
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I'm not "policing code names", myself and others are simply saying we have zero evidence pointing to Oz, or indeed Orange or Oyster. I don't really mind what you call it, but as far as we can tell, saying Oz is or was a a codename isn't true. It's a falsehood.
You also don't just use "Oz" as a player on a forum, you claim you "heard about it", you call it the "logical letters following NX", you claimed it was "Project Oz".
If you want to use a shorthand for Ounce, Oz, in an offhand manner, I really don't mind. But you said you heard it was Oz.
I'm not policing anyone's use of casual nicknames, but I will absolutely point out if someone appears to be being dishonest. Previously, you outright stated with apparent confidence that it is "Oz (Project Oz)", and that you had heard about it before OldPuck mentioned it. Now, after it's been discussed that Oz doesn't have supporting evidence, you say it's just players on a forum, and say anyone who says, correctly, that it has no supporting evidence is "policing".
It's not "policing" to want people to be forthcoming and honest with us, P4bl0.
Presenting false information or misrepresenting information isn't innocent forum fun. You claimed to have heard it and now say "everyone is clueless". If your earlier post was accurate, you yourself would not be clueless. I'm not trying to play "gotcha" here, really, I'd just want to know what the truth of the matter is.
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