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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Hermii said:
Would an Xbox/playstation handheld go arm?
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I would think Microsoft and Sony are looking more at the SteamDeck than the Switch.

They had over 6 years to consider copying the Switch but the Deck comes along and they probably thought, hey we can do something like that with our robust eco-systems. So they’d probably partner with AMD again and use similar parts to SteamDeck but that allow good backwards compatibility with last gen consoles.

That’s my guess at least.
 
Zedark said:
The latter from my reading of this. Which I think was gleaned from some leaked internal docs, right? At least that they had plans to do that, I think
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Yeah, it doesn't make sense to have two 4K devices and supporting both at the same time. Call me crazy, but if they do, the handheld would be the PS6 as a hybrid. That's the purpose of the Switch. You merge both of your handheld and console audience.
 
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Wouldn’t surpise me Microsoft and Sony will release handheld systems soon (lets sat late 2025 or 2026) that are portable versions of their HW.

Both like Switch 2 will probably feature 1080p LCD 8’’ screens but no dock or detachable control capabilities, they would be pure handhelds like Steam.

In Microsoft case it will be like Series S but now in a portable form factor, let it called Series P.

In Sony case, shrinking PS5 HW to have 1/4 GPU power.

They will share the same library of titles of their older systems. So if you have your PS5 games, you can now play them in PS5 Portable but at 1080p resolution or lower.
 
RedSpring said:
I don't see how they can possibly release a handheld device. Neither one can support two platform. The only way I can see is like Series Portable version of the next console playing the same games but that would surely rely on an energy inefficient x86 in handheld for ease of compatibility or straight up porting job to ARM. And if people think Series S is holding back games then people are really not gonna like this.
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I think the trick is the one Nintendo proved out: consolidate two platforms into one. If Sony and Microsoft are developing handhelds, you can bet that they will just play all of the game games as the base system. They might run a little worse, but they basically just need Steam Decks with PlayStation/Xbox integration instead of Steam.

Edit: one of the biggest lessons to the industry from the Switch is that Nintendo (the king of handhelds) could not support a separate handheld platform. The era of the separate game development platforms by a single company is over. Sony is still struggling with this in VR, and eventually the only games you'll see for that will be VR enhancements of existing games.
 
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Shinespark said:
I think the trick is the one Nintendo proved out: consolidate two platforms into one. If Sony and Microsoft are developing handhelds, you can bet that they will just play all of the game games as the base system. They might run a little worse, but they basically just need Steam Decks with PlayStation/Xbox integration instead of Steam.
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probably not as simple as this sounds. if they want a path of least resistance, they'll have to build to the handheld's spec first. because, as we see with Series S and Series X, any discrepancy in hardware will cause problems and effectively make the systems two games instead of one game like on Switch
 
ILikeFeet said:
probably not as simple as this sounds. if they want a path of least resistance, they'll have to build to the handheld's spec first. because, as we see with Series S and Series X, any discrepancy in hardware will cause problems and effectively make the systems two games instead of one game like on Switch
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Yeah, which is why one or both might stay in the development phase without the release of an actual product. If it was that easy to make the PS5/Xbox Series small enough to be a handheld (even running at lower resolutions), they wouldn't have been as gigantic as they are in the first place.
 
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Shinespark said:
I think the trick is the one Nintendo proved out: consolidate two platforms into one. If Sony and Microsoft are developing handhelds, you can bet that they will just play all of the game games as the base system. They might run a little worse, but they basically just need Steam Decks with PlayStation/Xbox integration instead of Steam.
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they might run a little worse?

I get why they're exploring the handheld space, but with all the recent complaints about cross-gen games/current gen not being pushed hard enough, going backwards in performance seems like an odd strategy.
 
Shinespark said:
I think the trick is the one Nintendo proved out: consolidate two platforms into one. If Sony and Microsoft are developing handhelds, you can bet that they will just play all of the game games as the base system. They might run a little worse, but they basically just need Steam Decks with PlayStation/Xbox integration instead of Steam.
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I agree with that but it would require ceding the high end console market to the other. You can always throw on more ram and more gpu but the Switch and series S keep the cpu mostly the same for a reason. I can see Sony being able to successfully go with this strategy though based on the strength of their brand
 
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redmutineer75 said:
If they want stuff like transferable digital libraries assuming it's more of a Deck-esque all digital handheld for playing PS4 and some PS5 games, then x86 is basically required.
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I can see MS experimenting with an ARM gaming device given Windows on Arm. with so many games on mobile, and those games running common middleware, getting an ARM build isn't a crazy idea. MS should be leading the charge by showing off stuff like Halo and Forza running on the Qualcomm Elite X chip
 
redmutineer75 said:
If they want stuff like transferable digital libraries assuming it's more of a Deck-esque all digital handheld for playing PS4 and some PS5 games, then x86 is basically required.
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I could see MS pulling it off. They did 360 bc on Xbox One after all. And leaked documents suggests they're considering arm for next gen home console.

I think PlayStation would have more issues.
 
Shinespark said:
I think the trick is the one Nintendo proved out: consolidate two platforms into one. If Sony and Microsoft are developing handhelds, you can bet that they will just play all of the game games as the base system. They might run a little worse, but they basically just need Steam Decks with PlayStation/Xbox integration instead of Steam.

Edit: one of the biggest lessons to the industry from the Switch is that Nintendo (the king of handhelds) could not support a separate handheld platform. The era of the separate game development platforms by a single company is over. Sony is still struggling with this in VR, and eventually the only games you'll see for that will be VR enhancements of existing games.
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👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿
This, and let's not forget the Vita. Sony treated that system like the red headed step child. Also, if they make a dock and they are able to port ALL of their games, wouldn't that just eat up at their shares?
 
Hermii said:
Would an Xbox/playstation handheld go arm?
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Yes, I think it’s been proven that (non-apple) ARM processors have the necessary S.C. performance at a much much lower power usage compared to x86. Especially for an handheld, were power budget and thermals are constrained, going ARM would allow them to leverage more from the GPU. AMD already works together with Samsung on their Xclipse GPU’s for smartphone and Automotive, so I expect some knowledge transfer in that regard. Combined with the fact that AMD’s own Z1E falters.

Ultimately the decision would likely fall on B.C;

  • Sony already had ARM handhelds with the PSP and PS Vita, where for the latter they had concurrent releases on PS3, PS Vita, PS4. So I expect some SDK and knowledge overlap for ensuring legacy titles to run well under a compatibility layer, but also forward looking with the PS5. ARM is not as big of a hurdle when you can build for it.
  • Xbox has Microsoft’s dedication on ARM and their respective translation layer (WOW64) for running 32-bit and 64-bit x86 applications on ARM. DirectX compatibility already has been established with their tight partnership with qualcomm, whom has demonstrated running games on their latest SoC during a preview. Moreover they’ve also dabbled in custom SoC, so leveraging their partnership with AMD makes sense in that regard.


bottom line is though; what sony and xbox want to achieve with their handhelds is a lot different than Nintendo’s.
 
Hermii said:
I could see MS pulling it off. They did 360 bc on Xbox One after all. And leaked documents suggests they're considering arm for next gen home console.

I think PlayStation would have more issues.
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It seems Microsoft is all over the place. Third party support, home console, cloud service, and now handheld?
navierStokes said:
AMD already works together with Samsung on their Xclipse GPU’s for smartphone
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🤭🤭🤭 now that someone mentioned that GPU I can't stop and think about him.
redmutineer75 said:
If they want stuff like transferable digital libraries assuming it's more of a Deck-esque all digital handheld for playing PS4 and some PS5 games, then x86 is basically required.
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So you think their handhelds wouldn't have dock or tv support?
 
SoldierDelta said:
My guess is that this will be closer to a Steam Deck than a Nintendo Switch tbh. Not a bad idea if I'm right, but I'm very curious about how it'd pan out overall.
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Introducing the newest Steam Deck competitor, the Microsoft Duck. The MD for short. Tagline; "Quack Quack."

(I just really needed to get this bad joke out of my head since thinking of it so now y'all suffer)
 
Hosermess said:
they might run a little worse?

I get why they're exploring the handheld space, but with all the recent complaints about cross-gen games/current gen not being pushed hard enough, going backwards in performance seems like an odd strategy.
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A time of diminishing returns advantages handhelds, as we see with the Steam Deck.
 
omniryu said:
It seems Microsoft is all over the place. Third party support, home console, cloud service, and now handheld?
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That's kind of their advantage. Their cloud service and home console use the same hardware, while their PC games use the same API and architecture. Presumably their handheld would do the same, being a handheld Series S in terms of capabilities and so being able to share the OS, games, patches, textures, everything. Their whole shtick is going where players are right now rather than waiting for them to come to their platform.

The thing for Microsoft though is that a handheld Series S would almost certainly come in UNDER NG Switch in memory and output resolutions, while a handheld Series X is impractical this decade. So it would have to undercut NG Switch in price, too. Can that be done with Series S specs this decade? Maybe.

Alternatively what we could see is next gen once again launching as a family of systems, with a handheld instead of a Series S, and a Series X equivalent super powerful home console, with a unified platform and CPU performance profile.

I think a handheld Xbox has real potential since they're very dedicated to the whole "unified ecosystem" thing. PlayStation I'm more apprehensive about, they don't have a lower spec device they can squeeze into a handheld, not even conceptually, so what would their device even be? What generation would it be in?
 
it's a bad idea, we know that Sony is incapable of feeding 2 consoles at once, as we saw with the VITA.
And Microsoft is already having trouble feeding its only console with big exclusives.

So they're going to try to release downgraded versions of their current games so they don't get to think about what to do with it.
And since, coming from Sony or Microsoft, I'd imagine that their handhelds would be possibly higher than the price of the Steam Deck.

So if we can't even hope to get a portable version of their current console for a lower price, what's the point ?
 
Microsoft writing off handhelds as something to let the existing hardware market do was always a foolish move, when the spine of their platform is Game Pass, and the best Handheld PC doesn't run Windows and has a third party store front.

They own the OS, their library has robust PC support. They're far better positioned than Sony to deliver an interesting piece of hardware. The Z1 Extreme is a pretty plausible candidate for a "720p Xbox Series Device." Valve can probably afford to sell Steam Decks at razor thin margins because they can skim off the store, but Microsoft can afford to sell the hardware at a small loss.

An "Xbox Game Deck" that offered out-of-the-box cloud saves and ran Starfield, Forza, Gears 5 as a solid experience would be a compelling offering. If it did so and you didn't have to buy the games because they're all on Game Pass, well, that drives the value per dollar proposition way up.
 
eye0h said:
It'd be really cool to see the big 3 fight over the handheld space. Put some pressure on Nintendo, at the end of the day we win
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If these sony/xbox handhelds are x86 like the steam deck and not ARM, then no we don't win - we LOSE.
That would lead to bigger fragmentation of cross platform libraries, why would a dev put on the extra effort of making a switch 2 port when they can just release the game on series S or base ps5 and have it work on sony's/MS' handhelds? (assuming ofc, seamless ports - which is btw the only way I see these handhelds working out).

Now that I realize it, this seems like an actually compelling strategy from these companies to steal marketshare from Nintendo and valve.

I mean, any new hardware can be considered a sucess if it's manufacturered in a small enough scale where there isn't much of a leftover after initial sales post-launch (cough playstation portal cough).

PS portal was reportedly out of stock after launch but does anyone here legitimately think they overproduced it? NO ONE, literally NO ONE asked for such a product but the very niche set of ps5 users with 200$ to spare that wanted the "portable" experience.

No way in hell MS is going to manufacture like 30-50million Xbox pocket edition if they couldn't even sell that amount of home consoles across multiple years.

But selling like what? ~10mi portables certainly takes away from Nintendo and valve in some way since most of these people won't have interest in owning both a MS/sony portable and a switch.

Well, at least the people I know irl and online who own a deck don't want to get a switch.
 
Concernt said:
That's kind of their advantage. Their cloud service and home console use the same hardware, while their PC games use the same API and architecture. Presumably their handheld would do the same, being a handheld Series S in terms of capabilities and so being able to share the OS, games, patches, textures, everything. Their whole shtick is going where players are right now rather than waiting for them to come to their platform.

The thing for Microsoft though is that a handheld Series S would almost certainly come in UNDER NG Switch in memory and output resolutions, while a handheld Series X is impractical this decade. So it would have to undercut NG Switch in price, too. Can that be done with Series S specs this decade? Maybe.

Alternatively what we could see is next gen once again launching as a family of systems, with a handheld instead of a Series S, and a Series X equivalent super powerful home console, with a unified platform and CPU performance profile.

I think a handheld Xbox has real potential since they're very dedicated to the whole "unified ecosystem" thing. PlayStation I'm more apprehensive about, they don't have a lower spec device they can squeeze into a handheld, not even conceptually, so what would their device even be? What generation would it be in?
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Don't get me wrong I can see them making a handheld, it just seems they're too spread out. Playstation, I don't see then having so much success. Two system to work for is too much unless this hybrid will be the actual PS6.
 
The theoretical handheld wouldn't be out until likely 2026 at the earliest. I can imagine we could get a handheld on par with the Series S at that point. The question is what happens when the Series S is no longer supported?
 
omniryu said:
Don't get me wrong I can see them making a handheld, it just seems they're too spread out. Playstation, I don't see then having so much success. Two system to work for is too much unless this hybrid will be the actual PS6.
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Then the fate for PS6 is sealed, to sell half or less as much as Nintendo.
 
I'd buy a Microsoft handheld.

I actively avoid supporting Valve so Steam Decks will never be in the cards for me. the other ones like ROG Ally and whatever aren't platform owners either so they're not an option
 
unless Xbox can reverse their decline they aren't going to put any pressure on Nintendo

This is throwing everything at the kitchen sink to see what sticks
 
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Xbro said:
The theoretical handheld wouldn't be out until likely 2026 at the earliest. I can imagine we could get a handheld on par with the Series S at that point. The question is what happens when the Series S is no longer supported?
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That's not going to be for YEARS. Series S is a current generation console and the next gen, because of diminishing returns and the inability to squeeze new gameplay out of more power (because we already have enough power), will likely have an even LONGER cross gen period than this one. Cross gen is STILL going!
 
Darknut85 said:
Then the fate for PS6 is sealed, to sell half or less as much as Nintendo.
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Lol I don't think half. Idk, what do we expect from the graphics of the PS6? Because I can only see the matrix demo, but the NPC will have the same quality as neo and trinity. So to me there's not much they can do. So why not just go hybrid?
 
Individualised said:
What do you mean by this?
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The problem with a lot of Steam Deck competitors can be summed up as "The Power of the Sun in the palm of my hands". Yes it's very powerful, but they burn battery, wallets and my hands. I think if Microsoft wants a good competitor, it needs to have a decent battery life, temperatures and price point. That last one isn't as important thanks to their moderate brand power as Microsoft Windows and Xbox, but they still should focus on the former two. With the right efforts, they can make the third proper pillar of the PC Handheld space. That being said, Microsoft is as allergic to success as I'm obsessed with Persona 3, so it's very up in the air as to if they'll succeed to a significant degree.
 
Concernt said:
That's not going to be for YEARS. Series S is a current generation console and the next gen, because of diminishing returns and the inability to squeeze new gameplay out of more power (because we already have enough power), will likely have an even LONGER cross gen period than this one. Cross gen is STILL going!
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Which is why hybrid is the future.
 
kasparov77 said:
If these sony/xbox handhelds are x86 like the steam deck and not ARM, then no we don't win - we LOSE.
That would lead to bigger fragmentation of cross platform libraries, why would a dev put on the extra effort of making a switch 2 port when they can just release the game on series S or base ps5 and have it work on sony's/MS' handhelds? (assuming ofc, seamless ports - which is btw the only way I see these handhelds working out).

Now that I realize it, this seems like an actually compelling strategy from these companies to steal marketshare from Nintendo and valve.

I mean, any new hardware can be considered a sucess if it's manufacturered in a small enough scale where there isn't much of a leftover after initial sales post-launch (cough playstation portal cough).

PS portal was reportedly out of stock after launch but does anyone here legitimately think they overproduced it? NO ONE, literally NO ONE asked for such a product but the very niche set of ps5 users with 200$ to spare that wanted the "portable" experience.

No way in hell MS is going to manufacture like 30-50million Xbox pocket edition if they couldn't even sell that amount of home consoles across multiple years.

But selling like what? ~10mi portables certainly takes away from Nintendo and valve in some way since most of these people won't have interest in owning both a MS/sony portable and a switch.

Well, at least the people I know irl and online who own a deck don't want to get a switch.
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hell, if they're ARM (again, unlikely but..) it would be even worse, because then there would be no seamless compatibility and devs would have to limit and cherrypick even more the platforms they decide to port to.
 
This seems to me to be more MS throwing things at the wall to see what sticks rather than some grand unified plan

It's almost bringing back Sega vibes with seemingly trying to throw out a bunch of new hardware to fix their problems
 
Lugia667 said:
This seems to me to be more MS throwing things at the wall to see what sticks rather than some grand unified plan
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Imo it's kinda like Sony with VR to live service to PS Portal before pulling out/reduce investment on some of them.
 
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oldpuck said:
They own the OS, their library has robust PC support. They're far better positioned than Sony to deliver an interesting piece of hardware. The Z1 Extreme is a pretty plausible candidate for a "720p Xbox Series Device."
Click to expand...
It's going to be Xbox Series M and you know it.
 
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