Beanstar40
Chain Chomp
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I agree, it sucks that topics like this become so contentious, I thought this site was better tbh.
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Rumour Eurogamer: "Nintendo demoed Switch 2 to developers at Gamescom ahead of widely-expected launch next year."
- Thread starter MondoMega
- Start date
Nvidia is nearly ten times the market cap of AMD. This makes the gap between Playstation and XBox look like small potatoes.
well you missed the point. deliberately or not, who knows, but I'll explain it to you anyway.
AMD isn't dependent on Sony and MS anymore. the reason they made the SoCs for PS5 and Series was because AMD has client services, just like Nvidia does. literally all the shit you've said about Nintendo applies to MS and Sony. so where's you're calls for Sony and MS to sit down, shut up, and let AMD take care of them? well you can't say it's because AMD is dependent, they aren't. and you can't say AMD knows best, because they made 2 (3) different products instead of 1 for both companies. why? it's because they have different needs. it's the same as why Drake doesn't look like Orin. if Nvidia took charge on the whole development, we'd just see a shaved down Orin. it's not like size is a problem as shown by all the x86 tablets out there
Heruderu
A Nahobino Stan
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This just in: Eurogamer leaks definitive edition of Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, called Super Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, exclusively for Nintendo Switch NG!
D
Deleted member 4826
Guest
I forgot to mention a good launch window of games.
- Late 2024
- Backwards compatibility
- Reasonable price (~$400)
- Good lineup of games for the launch window
D
Deleted member 4826
Guest
I feel like late 2024 is realistic that;s all. I think if they were going to release it early 2024 they would have announced it already.
MSnap
Kremling
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Not necessarily. While the Switch got its reveal in late 2016, the more formal showcase was early 2017 with a release in March. The Switch is in a different situation than the Wii U so they might just save the entire reveal for early 2024 while still targeting a Q1 release. Though I won’t get my hopes up lol
D
Deleted member 3433
Guest
Is he saying it’s on the 14th?
Yes. Or, as he said in the Direct-thread: "The answer rests within plain sight".
OK, Sony and MS should sit down and shut up and let AMD do the design work. lol, I'm surprised stating this triggers some people so much.
Who cares if a console manufacturer has a little or a lot of input into the chips.
The PS3 was all Ken Kutaragi's baby and what a fucking disaster of a chip design that was, did Sony receive a special cookie for that design?
Frankly Nintendo would likely have been better off if they had minimal hardware input into their consoles for a good long while and were just forced into doing the industry standard type of thing, most of the major hardware decisions they made for their consoles through the 90s/2000s basically hampered the console rather than helping. Crippling the SNES CPU because they planned to have cartridge chip enhancements (like why not just spend a tiny bit to have a half decent processor in the system instead?), No CDs for the N64 (it never had to be cartridge vs. CD, you could have both as a cartridge slot costs dick all) and handing all your 3rd party support to Sony, mini-DVDs and a lunchbox design for the GameCube? Who thought those were good ideas? Wiimote was brilliant but for $250 the hardware could have been way, way better than that, the GameCube was $200 just 5 years prior and a huge upgrade over the N64, but they opted not to really upgrade the hardware much and by 2010 had a console that was really looking outdated and losing sales momentum when it didn't have to, taking 9 years to make a color model of the Game Boy? C'mon, etc. etc. etc.
They make great, great games and some good controller innovations which is the saving grace, but a lot of these decisions above were ... woof. Not great.
But that's probably a different can of worms.
D
Deleted member 2181
Guest
And yet, outside of the SNES example (I'm going to reject the Wii one outright because I feel like it), none of these relate to the core processing of the systems, which, funnily enough, is where NVIDIA's input begins and ends on Switch 2.
And to suggest that NVIDIA didn't bother to create a tailored solution for Switch 2 when:
1. We know it has marked differences to the rest of the Orin family (and suspect further differences still in, say, node), including a file decompressor block that NVIDIA themselves will likely never have any use for, and
2. Nintendo is one of their most important customers, representing potential sales of 100+ million units, and previously singled out in earnings calls (such as in 2021) as a significant driver of revenue. It absolutely is worth their time and resources to invest in a custom solution. And that is aside from the ancillary benefit of furthering the reach and ubiquity of proprietary technologies such as DLSS. And for that to mean anything, they need to deliver a hell of a chip that will entice third-parties to develop for it. Which isn't going to happen so much with some binned-down Orin scraps.
Yes, X1 was off-the-shelf. But we're not talking about that system. Even if we were, we can clearly see why Nintendo would have at least some requests for NVIDIA, considering the latter shit the bed with security in Tegra X1. Further, the proposal that Nintendo is now held hostage to NVIDIA's design would necessarily mean that NVIDIA is also unilaterally specifying such things as RAM, cooling system, board design, storage media, battery (and battery life) all things that have significant impact on both the cost of the device (and Nintendo's own profit) and the realistic viability of the SoC, in the sense that there's no sense clocking it at a certain speed if the RAM can't keep up, etc.
And that just doesn't make sense. It really doesn't. It's Nintendo that's signing deals with Samsung, Hynix, Macronix, whoever, for all these things. They're not going to have a gun to their head while they do it, just like they're not going to let (say) Samsung sell them what Samsung want to sell them, even if it kneecaps Nintendo's ambitions for the SoC performance.
For all the talk about one company's brilliance and the other company's ineptitude, I can only note that one of those companies has had significant, major, and consistent success in the handheld console business, and the other has failed to create any viable native-processing gaming platform whatsoever. We know that the switchable form factor is a major factor in Switch's success, and we know that this isn't something NVIDIA could come up with, because they didn't. Because they were selling more than one Shield device for different purposes rather the converged device that the Switch is. It's also telling that Nintendo downclocked X1 in the interests of battery life. Nintendo absolutely know the portable gaming market. NVIDIA know graphics. It's the collaboration between, "This is what we need to do to make a device that will sell over the long term" and, "this is the absolute best possible graphical capability given the constraints you've dictated" that makes up the heart of Switch 2.
linkwashere
Space Warrior
Wtf is this?
A consoles's hardware is anything you are selling on the pack, be it the internals themselves, to the controller to the whole industrial design aspect of it. And Nintendo lives and dies for it. Everytime they hit it out of the park it was because of their hardware approach. From the DPad of the NES, the low consumption portability of the GameBoy, the Dual Touch Screen of the DS, the motion sensors of the Wii or the hybrid nature of the Switch... Nintendo has had their biggest success stories whenever they made something different with their hardware and didn't follow the standard way of the industry.
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I'm not sure about cans of worms, but you're dropping enough hot takes to be a significant contributor to global warming.
Not to mention, not fully getting how hardware design works.
Onilink97
Octorok
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so why does that make it the 14th? Thought everyone was expecting Wednesday the 13th with it airing the 14th in Japan
They make wonderful controller innovations sure, but a bulk of their actual hardware decisions (as in the "box" that played the games) in the 90s and 2000s weren't the greatest, if they were forced to do what basically was the industry standard of the time, they'd have been better off almost every time instead of choosing their way.
Would the N64 have been a better system if they had to use CD + cartridges? Absolutely. They probably actually beat the Playstation handily in that situation even if they would've had to do it kicking and screaming like a child being forced to eat their veggies. The funniest thing about their anti-optical media crusade was they had to adopt it for the GameCube because they knew they were 100% wrong on that.
Forced to not use useless mini-DVDs (which you can still pirate) and not go with the purple lunchbox design? Probably would have helped the GameCube.
If they were forced to not cheap out on the Super NES CPU that would've been better for everyone and would've shut down a key marketing point that Sega would hammer them with again and again and again to the point where many people of that era believed the Genesis was equal or better hardware because "Blast Processing".
Stubbornly refusing to make a color version of the Game Boy for 9 years? Totally unnecessary.
Charging $250 for a Wii with (sure) the revolutionary Wiimote, but then barely upgrading the GameCube chipset inside of it? If a $200 GameCube could be a monstrous upgrade over the N64 just 5 years prior, could they not have done better than that with the more expensive Wii? Like no one is saying make an XBox 360, but how about like half of an XBox 360? How about at least being able to run GameCube tier games at 720p? And it did bite them in the ass, just a few years in, HD adoption became widespread even by Nintendo's own admission and the Wii was stuck looking badly outdated and losing momentum as it got into 4/5 of being on the market. That didn't have to be the case.
Again though all this stuff is pretty different discussion. I don't put any of these companies on any kind of pedestal, they all do stupid things all the time, but Nintendo has some whoppers.
Dark Cloud
Warpstar Knight
If they took their hands off the wheel completely they’d be making a home console system. They’re not taking their hands off the wheel. Switch 2 would make sense in their vision.
darthdiablo
+5 Death Stare
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Nintendo isn't taking hands off wheels when it comes to hardware decisions. Hardware decisions is most assuredly part of decisionmaking when it comes to their vision with games and experience.
Decisions to go with hardware that makes economic sense (ie: $299 price point for Switch 1 instead of $399 or $499) is not "taking hands off the wheel".
What people fail to be grasping here is that DLSS tech makes it possible to go with less demanding processing power and still provide "good" graphical fidelity.
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EtherPenguin
Koopa
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Damn, we'll all be too busy playing Baten Kaitos on the 14th
Agnezenn
Cappy
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Which is exactly what I'm saying. The discussion in this thread has veered towards Nintendo washing their hands of decisionmaking and let Nvidia do everything for them.
D
Deleted member 4826
Guest
I was too lazy to look that up but hey that would be neat. Assuming it's backwards compatible they'd already have some games on the way too like the Peach game and Metroid Prime 4...assuming it isn't already a Switch 2 exclusive.
Angel Whispers
Follow me at @angelpagecdlmhq
I just block them on sight now because “Because Nintendo” and all its variants aren’t a premise at all. There’s no semblance of a point, and it’s just telling me that I never have to hear or take seriously another word they have to say about anything ever again. I also hate the fact that some of these assholes are content creators or games writers in paid work. Zero time, tolerance or patience. Just block. It’s an act of love and self-care.
GPKs3
Koopa
Yep. Pure system war/console warrior bullshit. It’s hopeless to think you could ever have a rational or constructive conversation with those types. Not worth anyone’s time.
Maxrunner
Bob-omb
Probably Sony fans who then think PS5 is better than a 4090 nvidia PC.
thoughthaver
Chain Chomp
well researched posts and articles featuring factual information on the switch 2 capabilities backed by credible sources after some dweeb posts "yeah but nintendo"
I'm not on the hardware thread but I have to imagine those guys are pulling their hair looking at some of the shit being posted in response to this report.
Cucufate
Partner Showcases can be cool, you know
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Yeah, we're going to see a lot of that, no matter how good the system ends up being, unfortunately. Back during the NX rumors era, when reports started appearing claiming that the system would be portable and use Tegra X1, a few users at the forum I used to visit back then called bullshit on those reports: according to them, there was no way that cheapass Nintendo would go for something that good.
Then, when the Switch was unveiled and, indeed, it featured the Tegra X1, literally the same users started saying that of course cheapass Nintendo would use that and not something with more oomph.
Old Sorta Fan
Contra superfan
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Remember that the console games business is an entertainment business. Customers don’t care about hardware like online hardware enthusiasts. They care if there are good games and lots of them for each different possible taste. Mr. Yamauchi’s quote about the NES being a box that people buy just to get to Mario is still true 40 years later,
Every failed console is due to not enough compelling software and/or droughts between good titles.
The GameCube was actually a wonder in hardware design from the perspective of raw performance. It had almost as much power as an Xbox while allowing Nintendo to make a profit off of a $200 price point. It was that some of the first party games underwhelming combined with a lack of third party software that led to droughts that did it in.
The Wii cost what it did because Nintendo spent lots and lots of R and D money on the Wiimote. The customer paid for the new entertainment experience that the new controller provided, not more pixels, frame rates, or polygons. Focusing on the specs in the box is just completely missing where Nintendo put its effort. They spent money to provide a new entertainment experience, just in a different way because they thought the industry was on an unsustainable path with the bloating development costs between 1996 and onwards (and have been proven correct years later by the third parties selling themselves to Microsoft before they go bankrupt and SIE going all in on GAAS’s rather than software sales).
The PlayStation selling more had nothing to do with hardware. It was because it got more quality games and had no droughts like the N64. Nintendo struggled with the transition to 3D as it took new skills and more resources that they did not yet have. They were relying on third parties to fill out the release schedule. The third parties instead all flocked to PlayStation as Sony was able to use its economies of scale, ownership of the CD format, established global marketing and distribution channels to make more attractive business incentives for them.
The N64 used cartridges because Sony owns the CD format. They’d have to pay Sony a few bucks for each N64 game sold to license the format. Sony owns the CD format and doesn’t have to pay a license fee for it. They also have their own optical disc factory so they don’t have to pay a markup to get blank optical discs. They still don’t have the same global distribution networks that Sony, a successful multinational consumer electronics company since the 1960’s already has.
The PlayStation’s hardware specs were decent but not remarkable for its time and it had a high fail rate too. Didn’t matter because all third parties flooded it with software leaving the N64 with droughts. Hardware was not the main cause.
For the game boy, Nintendo actually spent a lot of R and D money on a new game boy throughout the 1990’s. The handheld technology just wasn’t there yet to allow something GBA like on 4 AA batteries. They instead released a refreshes so new players would have attractive new hardware as they grew into Super Mario Deluxe and Pokémon and other hits.
There are reasons and contexts for why Nintendo made various choices over the years. None of them are because they are incompetent at hardware design. None of them are because they should cede design to chip manufacturers.
Soul Skater
Koopa
I don't think they would walk away from a $500 Switch 2 either. MS and Sony are probably kicking themselves they didn't just charge $600+ for the ps5 and series X because for 3 years scalpers raked in the hundreds of millions Sony and MS saw nothing from.
Reality is the Switch 2 for atleast a few years will likely sell out as fast as they can make them. a $399 switch is just gonna sell out instantly and be resold for likely a long time for far more than that...So why not charge $500 for it? They can always cut the price down the road if they need to; which I don't think they will. And raising the price is too much of a PR disaster. So it's better to just start higher.
Especially if it is as fully featured as the rumors imply, people are gonna buy this thing. Like look at the competition. Sony is out there charging $200 for an empty husk these days.
I remember that Yamauchi but that quote really was never based in much reality. Plenty of people bought the NES for games other than Mario. I remember when I bought the NES, I didn't even know that much about the difference between the NES and Sega Master System, I remember my neighbor like really carefully making sure I got the Nintendo because "the Nintendo has all the games".
I realize now what that actually meant and what he was saying was "Nintendo has all the 3rd party games like Contra and Double Dragon and Megaman etc. etc. etc., if you get the Sega you're just going to be stuck with just the Sega games". We didn't have the word "3rd party" back then, but I remember that very vividly. It wasn't "get the Nintendo so you can have Mario" ... like Nintendo used to just mean "broad video games", like as if it encompassed all of the video game dom.
Sony never "owned" the CD format by the way, Nintendo was free to use Philips or JVC or Matsushita/Panasonic or NEC or any number of vendors if they really wanted to make a CD system even after that, and even there they could have just made their own proprietary format and called it ND or whatever and there's not a damn thing Sony would be able to do about that. The Dreamcast used proprietary CDs, not technically CD. The GameCube used proprietary DVD, not exactly DVD. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Nintendo went from having like 95% market share of the console market down to like 30% ... we can spin all the excuses for that, but that was largely due to unforced hardware decisions on their part that they really did not have to make. They handed Sony the entire stationary home console market by basically giving them all their 3rd party support and locking themselves out of said support for no great reason.
And Sony really to this day basically stole Nintendo's ball and have never given it back aside from a little stumble with the PS3, they've held an iron grip leadership position on that market adding even more insult to injury they did it basically by using all of the Nintendo's close partners from the NES/SNES era. Squaresoft, Enix, Capcom, Konami, even like Rockstar/DMA, those studios used to be Nintendo 2nd party teams, (DMA Design and Angel Studios).
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EnergyDrink
Shriekbat
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The NVidia is the best and Nintendo is dumb guy is funny. It was Nvidia failures that made it possible to crack the Switch early on.
Anyway of course Nintendo has influence on the specs of the chips they buy from Nvidia, suggesting otherwise is strange.
Anyway of course Nintendo has influence on the specs of the chips they buy from Nvidia, suggesting otherwise is strange.
Old Sorta Fan
Contra superfan
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Yamauchi meant that you buy the hardware to get the software. He was saying most people don’t care about hardware, just good games. He used Mario as an example because it was THE killer app for the NES.
We said the same thing. No need to argue or correct me.
Dead wrong. The CD was developed by Phillips and Sony. Anyone who wants to use the format still has to pay a royalty to those two entities. You just brought up the other proprietary optical disc formats to try to BS away my point. Nintendo and Sega both came up with the mini DVD variant and the GD ROM to get around playing CD licenses. Sega had just lived through getting undercut on third party software royalties with the Saturn partially because of the CD royalties.
You just ignored my points about software droughts on the N64 and Cube and why the hardware was not so much a factor in sales. You ignored that Sony used its resource advantages to provide better business incentives for third parties. You ignored that the PlayStation had more software due to all those reasons.
Square pulls Final Fantasy 7, Konami puts Symphony of the Night and Metal Gear, Capcom puts Street Fighter and Resident Evil and on and on and on with PlayStation and not N64 and it’s because Nintendo can’t develop hardware?
I’ll finish this by calling console warring for what it is. You are ignoring what has happened in the Japanese market since the PS3 business disaster (almost bankrupted all of Sony Group Corp. and crippled the JP third parties such that they still have not recovered) and the DS success.
You are ignoring why the Switch was more successful than the PS4 and is beating the PS5 in software sales worldwide.
All so you can spin a console warrior narrative about Nintendo being too stupid to design their own hardware. We get that you are a console warrior who likes to use TFlops, FPS, and pixels to make a console warrior point.
kvetcha
hoopy frood
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It’s like playing tennis with a wall.
ReyVGM
Game Endings Master
Serif
𝕽𝖊𝖓𝖊𝖌𝖆𝖉𝖊 𝕬𝖓𝖌𝖊𝖑
I went to check out the Digital Foundry article about Nintendo NX being powered by Nvidia Tegra, seeing how the comments were. Big mistake.
I wish people were wiser now but I literally just read a post of someone at one point expecting Switch 2 to be weaker than the Xbox One.
As said (honestly a little too frequently), temper your expectations or whatever. But the opposite is also true. Absurd lowballs that fly in the face of how tech has progressed, literal stolen info from the hardware vendor, corroborated reports, and common-sense decision making are no longer rational thinking to temper expectations but just ... well, I can't think of a better word right now than 'annoying'.
. Switch brand gain so much from all this time, so Switch 2 already in a good position 
. DLSS in Switch 2 alone make me salivating 
D
Deleted member 3433
Guest
Looking forward to playing it again after all these years! I'm OK with a brief intermission (Nintendo Direct)...
Shinespark
Moblin
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So I just had a thought about 3rd party support for the Succ in light of the potential increased parity with current gen consoles. With the Switch, many of the ports (e.g., Fenyx Rising, Witcher 3, Civ 6, Ori, Tunic) were the worst-looking or running versions of these games on any platform. You still had instances like Diablo 3 that were great, but there was a clear trade-off for the portability of the Switch.
As a result, Sony and Microsoft seemed to ignore the Switch in their battle for exclusives, bc the Switch was seen as a complementary device instead of a direct competitor. Why pay to keep a game off the Switch when the hardware limitations + the performance would do that for you?
If the Succ can use DLSS to run high-profile 3rd party games well at 1080p in handheld mode, do y'all think there will be a shift to a more adversarial stance by Microsoft and Sony? Am I overthinking a phenomenon that may only impact a handful of games (if at all)?
As a result, Sony and Microsoft seemed to ignore the Switch in their battle for exclusives, bc the Switch was seen as a complementary device instead of a direct competitor. Why pay to keep a game off the Switch when the hardware limitations + the performance would do that for you?
If the Succ can use DLSS to run high-profile 3rd party games well at 1080p in handheld mode, do y'all think there will be a shift to a more adversarial stance by Microsoft and Sony? Am I overthinking a phenomenon that may only impact a handful of games (if at all)?
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Definitely.
The Switch really was its own unique market, since we have seen both markets survive. But if the Switch successor catches on, it's going to be an absolutely huge threat that it is going to be disruptive.
Xbox hasn't been doing so hot, but their Series S line as a budget option was their saving grace. If the Switch successor captures that budget pricing with a $400 pricepoint, along with being portable. That could be very disruptive.
PS5 has been doing fantastic, but it has been frustrating both publishers and consumers. They have been constantly raising prices on consumers, making them pay more for less, having very expensive peripherals that aren't well supported on the consumer end. For especially Japanese publishers, they are not happy with the installbase in the amount of games that they buy and play.
If Switch Successor comes even relatively close to run next gen games, and consumers accept it. Nintendo is going to take a lot of business away from Sony. Japanese publishers will flock to the platform, and even western developers will accept it. At that point, what is the point of owning an PS5 if you can have a device that runs games relatively similarly, but its also portable. Also, I think both the userbases of the PS5 and Xbox are looking at options nowadays. Nintendo has a few key advantages here:
1. Cheaper Online
2. Portability and Flexibility
3. A bigger array of exclusive games
If they can get 3rd parties fully onboard, and support the switch successor close to parity with the other systems. It for sure will be disruptive to Microsoft and Sony's business. And that's a very good thing. It could force Sony to lower their prices, and it could force Nintendo to lower prices too.
Superstarxalien
pfp by @ShiiNoctua
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the switch 2 will continue to not get day 1 ports for every 3rd party game ever like the switch 1, its hardware is still far too dissimilar to guarantee that
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
Saying "Many ____" is an invalid point because it's not relative to anything.
"Many people are attacked by sharks per year" is true. 70 is many people.
For example, many families can buy $500 PS5s as a toy/present for their kids. But many more families could buy a $400 PS5.
Armoured_Bear
Like Like
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PS5 on track to outsell PS4 makes it pretty clear that the price is not an issue.
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I don't think that's actually the case though? PS5 is catching up with PS4's sales curve but I didn't think the streams crossed quite yet, unless I missed an update.
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PS5 sales actually fell pretty hard after the stock stabilized. They're still good, but there's many regions where the Switch is still vastly outselling it.
There were a few months there where the PS5 was doing crazy - but it was mostly Sony catching up with demand and stuffing channels. That's why their recent quarter was so meh hardware wise, they just shipped as many as could go out till they oversupplied the market. There's also a lot of price cuts happening right now (which is somewhat normal for clearing out stock so retailers will buy the new model, but still).
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
That's entirely irrelevant to my point.
Shinespark
Moblin
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I'd forgotten about the architecture difference leading to an inherent time/effort tax relative to the other platforms. With Sony/Microsoft, part of the incentive to pay for an exclusive is that the default option is to release games on both platforms, and so you want to create some space. If a developer already has a 6-12 lag for the Switch version, then what's the point of paying extra?
Also thanks to @Lozjam and @ILikeFeet for your replies, you've articulated some of my other thoughts on this topic as well.
Toad King
Moblin
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If it starts getting most of the same releases that the PS5 and Series X/S get then it may not matter.
SpaceGodzilla
Did You Get that Thing I Sent You?
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No it hasn't
