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StarTopic Donkey Kong Community |ST| No Country For Old Kongs

Candy is an interesting case of being one of the few Kongs whose design really didn't stick the landing, which is notable given that it felt like everybody else got a visual aesthetic that really nailed their characters. Even Kiddy's in game sprite looks completely fine with only stuff like his renders and certain artwork making him look worse. While her later redesigns to improve her somewhat, she still feels she lacks the stand out personality elements the other characters have.

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Its telling that just a King of Swing inspired design (credit Bowsaremyfriends on Deviantart) really improves her overall look.
 
Candy is no different of Rouge the Bat; and while that character got a lot hate in the past, she's widely accepted these days.

I just want Candy to have a purpose in a game again, like in DK64.. Nevermind the sexy design, that's what she is.
 
I think Candy's original design from DKC is still the best. Her face is really good, the big bow is very distinctive and I love that her mouth is huge like all the other kongs but it's made to look smaller with the lipstick. She also has this "bored to be here as the token female rep" attitude that is much better than the hypersexualized persona that came afterwards.

Only thing I would improve is giving her something else to wear instead of a simple leotard.

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CyberWolfBia said:
Candy is no different of Rouge the Bat; and while that character got a lot hate in the past, she's widely accepted these days.

I just want Candy to have a purpose in a game again, like in DK64.. Nevermind the sexy design, that's what she is.
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I don't like any of them, but Rouge is at least proportionally similar to other characters, Candy 100% falls under the Humanoid Female Animal trope.

We need more Dixies in our lives.
 
CyberWolfBia said:
Candy is no different of Rouge the Bat; and while that character got a lot hate in the past, she's widely accepted these days.

I just want Candy to have a purpose in a game again, like in DK64.. Nevermind the sexy design, that's what she is.
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Candy is the MVP of DK64. If it wasn't for her, King K Rool may still be menacing the Kongs to this day. They should bring back Operator Funky too imo.
 
Gingerbread Man said:
I don't like any of them, but Rouge is at least proportionally similar to other characters, Candy 100% falls under the Humanoid Female Animal trope.

We need more Dixies in our lives.
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While I agree that for a functional playable character a chubby and/or smaller character is much better (looking how Alt Tawna is so odd in the Crash 4 cast) and I generally prefer these character designs, I don't mind the variety of shapes in the Kong family either.. Besides, much like in the Sonic franchise, I am pretty sure the proportions have much more to do with age, since you got Vanilla the Rabbit there too (and Tiny in the DK series, who aged and got just as taller and nimble as Candy)
 
Candy was clearly a character that was designed as a sexy lady, then given some ape like attributes. Compare her with Donkey or Wrinkly and it's clear as day.
 
Leo said:
She also has this "bored to be here as the token female rep" attitude that is much better than the hypersexualized persona that came afterwards.
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Maybe that's why she didn't appear in the other Country titles as she was that bored to be on the Kong's adventures.🤣
 
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LiveStudioCrowd said:
Candy is an interesting case of being one of the few Kongs whose design really didn't stick the landing, which is notable given that it felt like everybody else got a visual aesthetic that really nailed their characters. Even Kiddy's in game sprite looks completely fine with only stuff like his renders and certain artwork making him look worse. While her later redesigns to improve her somewhat, she still feels she lacks the stand out personality elements the other characters have.

images


Its telling that just a King of Swing inspired design (credit Bowsaremyfriends on Deviantart) really improves her overall look.
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Can't say I understand what you're getting at. How did Dixie's character design match here personality? What even was her personality back in the SNES days? I think the same can even be said for Diddy.
As for that artwork, it isn't KoS inspired, it's just literally her KoS look (which is just the Paon Candy design but in a different artstyle) but more chibi and less busty.
Gingerbread Man said:
I don't like any of them, but Rouge is at least proportionally similar to other characters, Candy 100% falls under the Humanoid Female Animal trope.

We need more Dixies in our lives.
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Well, let's take a look at the all female Kongs. Candy? Stands like a human. Wrinkly? Stood like a human. Tiny? Stands like a human. Dixie? Has the posture of a monkey. Dixie is ironically the outlier when it comes to female designs. Even some of the male Kongs has human postures.
 
Make Candy and Kalypso rivals; both somehow powering up their pals with music instruments and the sorts.

Heck, I'd take another DDR minigame like in the GBA remake of DKC1 where Kongs and Kremlings have a dancing faceoff.
 
Chalphy said:
Candy was clearly a character that was designed as a sexy lady, then given some ape like attributes. Compare her with Donkey or Wrinkly and it's clear as day.
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Designed to be sexy? Yes. But her designed is not the outlier (not the sexy part but in posture).
Screenshot-20240317-115347-Gallery.jpg

If Dixie wasn't designed to be "female Diddy" to have the same hitbox size, she'd be looking like Tiny over there.
 
Drybones2015 said:
Designed to be sexy? Yes. But her designed is not the outlier (not the sexy part but in posture).
Screenshot-20240317-115347-Gallery.jpg

If Dixie wasn't designed to be "female Diddy" to have the same hitbox size, she'd be looking like Tiny over there.
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Regarding candy, Rare/Nintendo trying to sex up an anthropomorphic ape in a kids game always rubbed me the wrong way. Felt the same way about crystal in starfox adventure, though I suppose that was technically t for teen.
 
I consider Candy to be a counterpart to Funky. He also stands like a human despite having an almost identical body shape to Donkey Kong.

Presumably Cranky would as well if he wasnt old.
 
Drybones2015 said:
So literally just a combination of every Candy design...
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I was more referring to the tweaking of proportions. I feel like you can have Candy keep the more humanish shape, with longer lankier limbs then the other Kongs (with the exception of, of course, Lanky Kong) as long as you beef her up a bit, give her slightly more gorilla-ish proportions than she's had in the past.

Also, yeah, I do like the sort of 80's bubblegum pop/workout aesthetic for Candy.
 
As someone who wants more of the old Rare-era Kongs to come back, I don't think we really need Candy unless she gets a massive redesign lmao. Aggressively off-putting design in every game she's appeared in and I wanna say even one of the original DKC devs said in a retrospective interview she was a mistake.

That last piece of fan art is a nice take on her but it seems like bar the occasional refinement like fur-effects or DK's nostrils Nintendo isn't too keen on re-working the designs they already made for all the Kongs post-Rare. K. Rool probably got a pass because it was Smash and he'd been dead for so long Sakurai had a lot more room to play around with him.
 
I think there's some Kongs worth bringing back but some others are better left in the past. Candy and Kiddy are obviously the two most disliked designs. Then with a couple of them you have some baggage. Like DKC2 Wrinkly and DK64 Tiny I think are decent enough original designs to bring back, but then Rare and Nintendo got weird with making Wrinkly a ghost and Tiny a teenager. Swanky is cool but he's also a blatant "DK as a game show host" design so he doesn't feel as essential either. (Yes I know there's Funky but his clothes and mannerisms really set him apart from DK visually more than Swanky would)

To me the two Kongs that make the most sense to bring back are Lanky and Chunky since theyre generally beloved characters by the fans and stand out as pretty unique designs that have stayed true since their first appearance. Though they're primarily playable characters and not NPCs like Candy/Wrinkly/Swanky so they probably don't provide as much to a potential new game unless they go wild with a lot of playable characters. Also it would be weird to bring those two back and not Tiny for the full reunion. (Though if she comes back I still think they need to revert to her original design)

I do think though the franchise should have a 2nd female Kong besides Dixie even if it's just an NPC. They're just in a sticky spot though with each of the 3 options. (Unless they create a new character entirely)
 
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Kiddy's design is great, it's just the renders that made him look weird, but like, the renders at the time made everyone look weird.

I hope we get to see him again someday. He could work really well with a few adjustments. Imagine him wearing overalls, so cute.

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Someone who could really use a redesign (or rather go back to the og design) is Dixie. Her modern renders look super cheap and never really got her right.
 
Hibby said:
Much like how Toys for Bob salvaged Tawna's design, I think some tweaks would do Candy wonders.

I can't remember if I shared this here before, but since it's relevant to the conversation, I had a tier list for DKC characters a while back.


cQZBxpQ.png
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New Tawna was a dud to me tbh. Felt weird they put so much effort into salvaging that character when I feel like there were more popular classic characters that they couldve brought back for what was a series revival attempt. (Tiny Tiger, Ripper Roo, etc.) It's why I'm pretty apathetic to the idea of redeeming Candy for the DK series.

I do agree though on your tier list with the "needs to be in" category. Those 9 characters basically ARE the faces of DKC to me. K. Rool and Enguarde are the two weirdest omissions from the modern series.
 
Gartooth said:
New Tawna was a dud to me tbh. Felt weird they put so much effort into salvaging that character when I feel like there were more popular classic characters that they couldve brought back for what was a series revival attempt. (Tiny Tiger, Ripper Roo, etc.) It's why I'm pretty apathetic to the idea of redeeming Candy for the DK series.

I do agree though on your tier list with the "needs to be in" category. Those 9 characters basically ARE the faces of DKC to me. K. Rool and Enguarde are the two weirdest omissions from the modern series.
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The fact we never got Tiny in any of Toys for Bob's Crash games is a crime, really.
 
I may be an outlier, but I liked Candy's cartoon design in concept. Execution was rough, but I did like her hair and bandana and her 2D concept art was neat.

GoGoDezmo said:
Honestly, with a few tweaks, Candy's current design COULD be really good. Case in point:

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You know... buff up the arms more to look more Gorilla, and I'd really dig this. And not just muscles, I mean make her hands bigger to sorta match DK's.
 
Gartooth said:
I think there's some Kongs worth bringing back but some others are better left in the past. Candy and Kiddy are obviously the two most disliked designs. Then with a couple of them you have some baggage. Like DKC2 Wrinkly and DK64 Tiny I think are decent enough original designs to bring back, but then Rare and Nintendo got weird with making Wrinkly a ghost and Tiny a teenager. Swanky is cool but he's also a blatant "DK as a game show host" design so he doesn't feel as essential either. (Yes I know there's Funky but his clothes and mannerisms really set him apart from DK visually more than Swanky would)

To me the two Kongs that make the most sense to bring back are Lanky and Chunky since theyre generally beloved characters by the fans and stand out as pretty unique designs that have stayed true since their first appearance. Though they're primarily playable characters and not NPCs like Candy/Wrinkly/Swanky so they probably don't provide as much to a potential new game unless they go wild with a lot of playable characters. Also it would be weird to bring those two back and not Tiny for the full reunion. (Though if she comes back I still think they need to revert to her original design)

I do think though the franchise should have a 2nd female Kong besides Dixie even if it's just an NPC. They're just in a sticky spot though with each of the 3 options. (Unless they create a new character entirely)
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No bring ALL Kongs back. Nintendo had no problem including Candy, Wrinkly, Tiny, Lanky during the 2000s. Even Chunky was in a GBA mini game. And then you have Swanky and Chunky in the Mario Movie. Lack of Kongs during 2010s was clearly Retro's decision. And a 15+ year absence has lead fans, new and old, to develop a weird mentality that something must be wrong with these characters when there isn't (Yes, I'm even including Kiddy).
 
I quite frankly feel people overthink when comes to Candy, as much some does about Krystal. There's no weird taboo about the character and her design at all; She was a regular member of the cast as far as Barrel Blast (being in the Options menu).. she stopped appearing in stuff because, well.. everyone stopped with Retro's soft-reboot (which is not a thing in my eyes either, but sure, let's go with that for the clear divide since then)

Once there's an opportunity to actually use Candy and any other Kong, Kremling or even a Brother Bear to fill a role in a game, they're gonna show up again with no issue. I bet that even retaining much of their last appearances in the Paon titles.

We are not even regularly getting Donkey Kong games, so Candy's situation is not even different of someone like Enguarde or even Funky until recently-sh.
 
We know that Nintendo set a styleguide for Mario in early 00s, it's possible (I'd say very likely) that they did the same for DK. Retro games had to accommodate that. But it's hard to tell what it's in and what it's out, and if and how it changed over time.

Personally, I don't really like the Kongs outside of Donkey, Diddy, Dixie, Cranky and (weirdly, I know!) Ghost Wrinkly. They feel too much like OC don't not steal, not particularly inspired or too humanoid (coincidentally for Candy and teenager Tiny...).
 
Candy's design isn't any more sexualized than the Splatoon idols, and those games are rated E10+. I think they should adjust her proportions a bit to make her more in-line with the rest of the cast, but this idea that Nintendo is ashamed of her design feeds into the narrative that every character who wasn't in DKCR "deserved" to be cut.

Just give her a new render that doesn't look like a plastic Barbie doll and Candy would be a welcome addition to the modern DKC cast. We need more gender diversity, not less.
 
Professor Chops said:
Candy's design isn't any more sexualized than the Splatoon idols, and those games are rated E10+. I think they should adjust her proportions a bit to make her more in-line with the rest of the cast, but this idea that Nintendo is ashamed of her design feeds into the narrative that every character who wasn't in DKCR "deserved" to be cut.

Just give her a new render that doesn't look like a plastic Barbie doll and Candy would be a welcome addition to the modern DKC cast. We need more gender diversity, not less.
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Absolutely, there is room for teenager and adult female Kongs keeping more animal proportions.
 
Gingerbread Man said:
We know that Nintendo set a styleguide for Mario in early 00s, it's possible (I'd say very likely) that they did the same for DK. Retro games had to accommodate that. But it's hard to tell what it's in and what it's out, and if and how it changed over time.

Personally, I don't really like the Kongs outside of Donkey, Diddy, Dixie, Cranky and (weirdly, I know!) Ghost Wrinkly. They feel too much like OC don't not steal, not particularly inspired or too humanoid (coincidentally for Candy and teenager Tiny...).
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Wasn't teen Tiny designed by Nintendo? I think even modern Candy was redesigned by Ninty.

I don't care much for Teen Tiny's design especially since she is you-know Dixie's little sister. Such a dumb change to me, if you wanted them to look different give Tiny some other duds and remove the pigtails. That's like redesigning Chunky because he was a Kiddy expy.
 
Hibby said:
Much like how Toys for Bob salvaged Tawna's design, I think some tweaks would do Candy wonders.

I can't remember if I shared this here before, but since it's relevant to the conversation, I had a tier list for DKC characters a while back.


cQZBxpQ.png
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Oh, your post make me realize how much I miss animal buddies. I need Enguarde, Winky, Expresso, and Squawks to return so bad with Rambi. We need a new DK.
 
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Magic-Man said:
Can we leave Dixie in the past along with Candy? Those dead eyes creep me out.
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No.

Edit: I don't think I need to elaborate of how important they are, especially Dixie, as the only female character with a leading role in the series.
 
Magic-Man said:
Can we leave Dixie in the past along with Candy? Those dead eyes creep me out.
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Hell no. I'd much rather no Kong gets left behind, but ESPECIALLY not Dixie, she's probably my favourite! I would have taken her over Peachette in Mario Kart Wave 6 cause I would have actually played her.

Also I have no idea what you mean by "dead eyes" they're basically just Diddy's but green, and only really looked a bit off in the 90s with the rest of the Kongs.
 
Mer.Saloon said:
Wasn't teen Tiny designed by Nintendo? I think even modern Candy was redesigned by Ninty.

I don't care much for Teen Tiny's design especially since she is you-know Dixie's little sister. Such a dumb change to me, if you wanted them to look different give Tiny some other duds and remove the pigtails. That's like redesigning Chunky because he was a Kiddy expy.
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It's not really clear who made the redesign decision for Tiny. The statement people tend to quote just kinda vaguely says that it was Nintendo who chose to include her in DKR DS, not specifically that they were the ones who said "age her up". But also, DKR DS and Barrel Blast had pretty close releases. Who's to say which game her new design was in first.
Candy latest design was by Paon (not sure if Nintendo was involved in it, but they clearly gave it a thumbs up).
 
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Drybones2015 said:
It's not really clear who made the redesign decision for Tiny. The statement people tend to quote just kinda vaguely says that it was Nintendo who chose to include her in DKR:DS, not specifically that they were the ones who said "age her up". But also, DKR:DS and Barrel Blast had pretty close releases. Who's to say which game her new design was in first.
Candy latest design was by Paon (not sure if Nintendo was involved in it, but they clearly gave it a thumbs up).
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no, the quote is in answer to someone asking specifically about tiny's redesign, not her appearance in dkrds overall
 
Drybones2015 said:
Candy latest design was by Paon (not sure if Nintendo was involved in it, but they clearly gave it a thumbs up).
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Candy's design in King of Swing, Jungle Climber and Barrel Blast, is pretty heavily influenced by her DK64 look without so many accessories (no shoes or headphones & walkman); -- I suppose the same principle that was applied on simplifying Funky's DKC3 design for the modern games, taking the busy elements off and anything that was thematically made for that particular occasion.
 
Drybones2015 said:
It's not really clear who made the redesign decision for Tiny. The statement people tend to quote just kinda vaguely says that it was Nintendo who chose to include her in DKRDS, not specifically that they were the ones who said "age her up".
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Considering basically every other Rare-era character got a redesign internally at Nintendo and showed up first in games not made by Rare, personally I'd put money on Tiny also being redesigned by Nintendo, just to fit aesthetically with all their other 2000s era models as seen in stuff like Barrel Blast, Jungle Climber and Brawl.
 
Superstarxalien said:
no, the quote is in answer to someone asking specifically about tiny's redesign, not her appearance in dkrds overall
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Yeah I know the question being answered was about her redesign.
0bTRdaU.jpeg

But I'm specifically pointing out how the answer was vague enough that it could just be interpreted as them saying "Nintendo is the reason Tiny is in the game". Especially with the following remark, which wouldn't really make sense towards the question. And if it is, then it's just evidence for Nintendo actually likes human shaped Kongs.
But then rereading the question now, if true, Tiny hade her original design still in Barrel Blast before both were shown off at the same E3 with the new design in DKR DS. Was there no communication there? If it was Nintendo's choice then surely there would be? It just seems more likely that Rare did do the redesign and Nintendo preferred that so Paon changed her for their game.
 
JazzyFuture said:
Hell no. I'd much rather no Kong gets left behind, but ESPECIALLY not Dixie, she's probably my favourite! I would have taken her over Peachette in Mario Kart Wave 6 cause I would have actually played her.

Also I have no idea what you mean by "dead eyes" they're basically just Diddy's but green, and only really looked a bit off in the 90s with the rest of the Kongs.
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I dunno, Dixie's eyes have always creeped me out for whatever reason. I'm being deadass here. I just find the design offputting. Not sure why Diddy is better for me.
 
Magic-Man said:
I dunno, Dixie's eyes have always creeped me out for whatever reason. I'm being deadass here. I just find the design offputting. Not sure why Diddy is better for me.
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Do you mean her modern design? If so I agree, her eyes look off, the irises are too small.

Her hat used to be a very clear beret that radiated that 90s drip, but now is an unshapely non descript cap. The earrings and bangs are way to big and make the design look cluttered.

The kneepads I could take or leave, but in general her og design looked cool and athletic and you knew she was about to kick some Kremling ass. The modern one looks cute and girly and like she would rather go shopping than going on an adventure.

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