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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Shoulder said:
Going back to Scrolling Shoulder buttons, and how it could relate to a game like Zelda TOTK, didn’t anyone at Nintendo ever think, “You know what else could work for managing Swords, Bows, and Shields? A fricking Wheel.”

Like seriously, using Doom/Doom Eternal as an example, it is super easy and simple to switch between weapons because of the wheel. Like Zelda, you hold down a button, and using an analog stick, you go between different weapons on hand.

I’m actually just flabbergasted Nintendo never considered this.

I know some of you may ask about when you increase the number of items, and how that’d work. Well, increase the size of the wheel. Simple.

And if THAT is too difficult, then employ the same design mechanic they used since freaking Ocarina of Time: You have a limited number of slots for your most used stuff. In the case of TOTK, make the wheel like I mentioned earlier, but maybe limit it to 8-10 items for the sword, bow, and shields, respectively.

Any one of those designs is better than the single file line of items in a sequential row that you cannot even loop back. But given they follow the same mindset towards the OS of the Switch, it’s about on point.

Nintendo: We’re not Apple, but we sure don’t always make it convenient for the consumer. 👍
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Best approach is capacitative shoulder buttons that have minor tactile/rumble feedback when detecting the touchwheel effect is being used.
 
Notsowise said:
These games are great. Sorry but this is not a good post of yours.
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They might be, I don't know, but you can't deny that when the 2024 lineup so far is
  • Remake (Another Code: Recollection)
  • Remake (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)
  • Super casual game (Princess Peach: Showtime!)
  • Remaster (Luigi's Mansion 2 HD)
  • Remake (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)
It just screams that they have no heavy hitters left and are saving them all for the next console.
 
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darthdiablo said:
A78c is most certainly a given. The "c" in A87c = optimized for gaming.

"the Cortex-A78C also includes memory system improvements allowing up to 8MB of shared L3 Cache for demanding workloads, including AAA gaming, multimedia editing and other professional productivity suites."
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Specifically, there are 3 different A78 types. There's regular A78, which is used in phones, A78AE (Automotive Enhanced) which is used in cars like with the DRIVE Orin chips, and A78C (Compute) which is used in laptops.
 
Shoulder said:
Going back to Scrolling Shoulder buttons, and how it could relate to a game like Zelda TOTK, didn’t anyone at Nintendo ever think, “You know what else could work for managing Swords, Bows, and Shields? A fricking Wheel.”

Like seriously, using Doom/Doom Eternal as an example, it is super easy and simple to switch between weapons because of the wheel. Like Zelda, you hold down a button, and using an analog stick, you go between different weapons on hand.

I’m actually just flabbergasted Nintendo never considered this.

I know some of you may ask about when you increase the number of items, and how that’d work. Well, increase the size of the wheel. Simple.

And if THAT is too difficult, then employ the same design mechanic they used since freaking Ocarina of Time: You have a limited number of slots for your most used stuff. In the case of TOTK, make the wheel like I mentioned earlier, but maybe limit it to 8-10 items for the sword, bow, and shields, respectively.

Any one of those designs is better than the single file line of items in a sequential row that you cannot even loop back. But given they follow the same mindset towards the OS of the Switch, it’s about on point.

Nintendo: We’re not Apple, but we sure don’t always make it convenient for the consumer. 👍
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Nintendo has already used a wheel system in Skyward Sword, and the runes in TotK are chosen like that too, the issue is that this system wouldn't work as well on joycons when you have many choices, imagine having to quickly choose your weapon with an accuracy of 5° in the middle of a fight while your joy-con is drifting, not cool.
 
redmutineer75 said:
They might be, I don't know, but you can't deny that when the 2024 lineup so far is
  • Remake (Another Code: Recollection)
  • Remake (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)
  • Super casual game (Princess Peach: Showtime!)
  • Remaster (Luigi's Mansion 2 HD)
  • Remake (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)
It just screams that they have no heavy hitters left and are saving them all for the next console.
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i really want to believe so because we been hearing about a stronger device since like 2019, Nintendo needs to go ahead and pull the trigger
 
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BreakAtmo said:
Not quite. The Xbox One launched exactly 8 years after the 360.
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To be fair, the Xbox lasted only four years; it seems like both Nintendo and MS made up for the shorter generations lol; funny enough if the Switch launched in Fall 2016 like it was supposed to then it would have tied with Xbox.

But yes, the Switch 2 is expected to launch Fall 2024, so it will be six months on the market less before a successor (If it launches in September, four months if it launches in November).

It seems like Sony is the only one with a constant rate of 7 years (post PS2), but then again it is rumored that the PS6 will be released in 2028 so I guess they will also follow the 8 year gap.
 
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redmutineer75 said:
They might be, I don't know, but you can't deny that when the 2024 lineup so far is
  • Remake (Another Code: Recollection)
  • Remake (Mario vs. Donkey Kong)
  • Super casual game (Princess Peach: Showtime!)
  • Remaster (Luigi's Mansion 2 HD)
  • Remake (Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door)
It just screams that they have no heavy hitters left and are saving them all for the next console.
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Indeed, it's obvious this generation is already over. All their next gen heavy hitters are being kept in wraps, that's for sure.
 
redmutineer75 said:
Specifically, there are 3 different A78 types. There's regular A78, which is used in phones, A78AE (Automotive Enhanced) which is used in cars like with the DRIVE Orin chips, and A78C (Compute) which is used in laptops.
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Yeah, ARM specifically mentioned the A78C of being laptop-grade.
 
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LinkURL said:
Nintendo has already used a wheel system in Skyward Sword, and the runes in TotK are chosen like that too, the issue is that this system wouldn't work as well on joycons when you have many choices, imagine having to quickly choose your weapon with an accuracy of 5° in the middle of a fight while your joy-con is drifting, not cool.
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I’m not referring to a motion controller/gyro styled wheel though.

All you’d need to do is replicate the Doom 2016/Doom Eternal weapon wheel, and you’d be fine.

For TOTK, it’d be hold the dpad button, and then use the right analog stick like before, but instead a single line of weapons, it’s a wheel. It’d objectively be quicker than the current method.

And it’s not just Doom who’s used it either. Rockstar has used it for years in many of their titles also.

I feel it’s just Nintendo being different for the sake of it, but that’s just me.
 
Shoulder said:
I’m not referring to a motion controller/gyro styled wheel though.

All you’d need to do is replicate the Doom 2016/Doom Eternal weapon wheel, and you’d be fine.

For TOTK, it’d be hold the dpad button, and then use the right analog stick like before, but instead a single line of weapons, it’s a wheel. It’d objectively be quicker than the current method.

And it’s not just Doom who’s used it either. Rockstar has used it for years in many of their titles also.

I feel it’s just Nintendo being different for the sake of it, but that’s just me.
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Doom Eternal only has 8 weapons slot. TotK has 20. That's less than half the size for each segments. Quicker than the current method but very error prone. You can make the image bigger but that doesn't change the size of the joystick.
 
Semi Lazy Gamer said:
From what I found was people on Tiktok spreading a rumor mid last year about Fortnite ending on Switch because it couldn't run it.

The most recent rumors are Tiktok people saying Fortnite is ending.

You can basically ignore them.
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What a stupid rumour, I don't know how many people have downloaded Fortnite on Switch now, but back in late 2018, it was at 11.5 million downloads, and very likely way more now.

Epic wouldn't just drop a massive player base like that lol. Especially since they are doing everything they can to make sure the game stays relevant.

I also expect Fortnite to release on Switch 2 day 1.
 
Would Nintendo skimp on the A78C L3 cache even if it meant that having 8MB would alleviate some of the low bandwidth on the RAM?

Also I’m kinda interested in how games like SMRPG, DOOM Eternal and more that have fast load times will be on Drake. Will it be instantaneously thanks to the IPC upgrades on the CPU or will Nintendo somehow cap how fast games load?
 
NintenDuvo said:
how confident are you that the Next Switch is coming in 2024, the pessimist on twitter and furukawa lack of acknowledgement is starting to get to me lol
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Just think this way: Nintendo Switch HW sales have showed a significant decline this year, which was offset/slowed down due to big releases such as ToTK and Mario Wonder, plus Hardware bundles. Next year, Nintendo won't have a ToTK sized software to offset and slow down hardware sales and hardware sales will decline even more. So their financials will look pretty dire. That's the perfect chance for them to introduce a new hardware and revitalize their business.
Mr Swine said:
Would Nintendo skimp on the A78C L3 cache even if it meant that having 8MB would alleviate some of the low bandwidth on the RAM?
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Yes. L3 does provide lesser bandwidth contention and saves energy. But it also takes more area. So it will depend on what Nintendo think. Perhaps less L3 cache will strain the memory subsystem more and use more energy, but the amount of money they save by making the chip smaller greatly offset these cons. It's a trade-off and only Nintendo can decide on it. Granted, while more cache would be nice, it's not like it would be the end of the world going with less. Consoles are cost-effective hardware, so cuts are always expected. It's up to developers to adapt to it.
Mr Swine said:
Also I’m kinda interested in how games like SMRPG, DOOM Eternal and more that have fast load times will be on Drake. Will it be instantaneously thanks to the IPC upgrades on the CPU or will Nintendo somehow cap how fast games load?
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Loading is broadly a factor of storage speed and CPU speed. So games will load faster. At the same time, however, assets and data stream will be bigger on the next console because the performance and higher and more can achieved with it. So it might even out, be faster, be slower. It depend on each game, Nintendo decisions on CPU clocks and storage speed, the way games interface with IO, the role File Decompression Engine will have, etc.

But broadly and generally speaking, I'd assume games on Switch 2 will load faster than on Switch.
 
Mr Swine said:
Would Nintendo skimp on the A78C L3 cache even if it meant that having 8MB would alleviate some of the low bandwidth on the RAM?
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Consoles are inherently budget machines, there will be compromises one way or another. Wether it will be the l3 cache or something else, we'll have to wait for a tear down I guess.
 
Lancelot said:
Indeed, it's obvious this generation is already over. All their next gen heavy hitters are being kept in wraps, that's for sure.
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People said this before TotK, after TotK, after Pikmin 4, and now after Mario Wonder.

Fwiw, I agree that the next console is gonna be within the next 6-12 months, but ‘the generation is over’ has been said for a very long time.
 
BloodMoon said:
People said this before TotK, after TotK, after Pikmin 4, and now after Mario Wonder.

Fwiw, I agree that the next console is gonna be within the next 6-12 months, but ‘the generation is over’ has been said for a very long time.
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But now they don’t really have any 10+ million sellers left besides Pokémon (and of the examples you gave, Pikmin isn’t a heavy-hitter outside of Japan). Usually Nintendo has at least one other besides Pokémon, & 2024 is clearly slowing down to the point where we don’t really have any left.
 
RedSpring said:
Doom Eternal only has 8 weapons slot. TotK has 20. That's less than half the size for each segments. Quicker than the current method but very error prone. You can make the image bigger but that doesn't change the size of the joystick.
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I get what you’re saying, though it doesn’t have to be 8, or 20 slots. Could be ten slots for the most used weapons, and in the menu they can be swapped out on the fly.

In the case of GTAV, it also has 8 weapon slots, but has 18 radio stations using the same type of wheel.

This is more a matter of opinion, but wheels would be more intuitive than a single file line like what we got in BOTW/TOTK. You could still organize them as before, have the relevant information inside the wheel such as damage, plus would be nice to add a durability gauge. Why Nintendo never bothered to include that is beyond me.

That all said, there would be limitations with more than 18-30 items as another user jokingly posted when he quoted me. That I can see not working well for a wheel, and what we got is probably the overall best option.

But for a limited amount of weapons, bows, and shields, wheel would’ve been better.
 
BloodMoon said:
People said this before TotK, after TotK, after Pikmin 4, and now after Mario Wonder.

Fwiw, I agree that the next console is gonna be within the next 6-12 months, but ‘the generation is over’ has been said for a very long time.
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Well, you speak for others in there. This is pretty much the first time i'm legitimately convinced of it, and many of those games were already kinda budget releases. TotK and eventually Prime 4 will put an end to this generation for good, assuming the later actually gets a decent switch release and not basically a poorly running demake.
 
Lancelot said:
Well, you speak for others in there. This is pretty much the first time i'm legitimately convinced of it, and many of those games were already kinda budget releases. TotK and eventually Prime 4 will put an end to this generation for good, assuming the later actually gets a decent switch release and not basically a poorly running demake.
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And even then, Metroid isn’t a heavy-hitter franchise. So it’s not like Nintendo can heavily rely on MP4 to hold things down until Pokémon.
 
Neoxon said:
And even then, Metroid isn’t a heavy-hitter franchise. So it’s not like Nintendo can heavily rely on MP4 to hold things down until Pokémon.
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Gamecube, Wii, WII U launched without a new Mario or Zelda title. You're acting like only Mario and Zelda can be the "heavy hitters" and nothing else can be.

Metroid Prime 4 would be absolutely a fantastic launch title for Swtich particularly if there's a focus on utilizing Switch 2's upgraded hardware for the Switch 2 version of the game whenever it be stand-alone Switch 2 title, or day 1 patch on top of Switch 1 game.

Launch lineup doesn't have to be centered around a single game. As for "launch window" games (games that comes in after launch), we simply don't know what Nintendo has planned. Who's to say a new 3D Mario game isn't planned for "launch window" (within 1st year) of Switch 2 launch?
 
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darthdiablo said:
Gamecube, Wii, WII U launched without a new Mario or Zelda title. You're acting like only Mario and Zelda can be the "heavy hitters" and nothing else can be.

Metroid Prime 4 would be absolutely a fantastic launch title for Swtich particularly if there's a focus on utilizing Switch 2's upgraded hardware for the Switch 2 version of the game whenever it be stand-alone Switch 2 title, or day 1 patch on top of Switch 1 game.

Launch lineup doesn't have to be centered around a single game. As for "launch window" games (games that comes in after launch), we simply don't know what Nintendo has planned. Who's to say a new 3D Mario game isn't planned for "launch window" (within 1st year) of Switch 2 launch?
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I was mostly talking about the Switch 1 not having much left to hold things down in terms of release timing. From my response from a software standpoint, I’ve directed this to the other thread.
 
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An interesting talk about the upcoming RTS, from ex-Starcraft devs and their experience of using their own engine with layers of UE5.

Side note: Isn't the purpose of the other switch 2 thread to talk about launch lineups, etc.
 
SirArthur said:


An interesting talk about the upcoming RTS and their experience of using their own engine with layers of UE5.

Side note: Isn't the purpose of the other switch 2 thread to talk about launch lineups, etc.
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Correct, hence why I moved the pivot to the other thread. I made it clear what I was specifically referring to earlier.
 
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darthdiablo said:
Gamecube, Wii, WII U launched without a new Mario or Zelda title. You're acting like only Mario and Zelda can be the "heavy hitters" and nothing else can be.
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Those arent really great examples seeing as how Gamecube and Wii U were not amazingly selling systems, and the Wii hit lightning in a bottle and launched with the heaviest heavy hitter launch title of all time (Wii Sports)

The systems without heavy hitter (Mario, Zelda) titles fumbled, and the systems with heavy hitter titles (NES, N64, Switch, etc) all had amazing launches and momentum. Nintendo has more than enough examples to know what does and does not work. Mario and Zelda works.

Even NSMB U, a launch title that was deemed catastophic for the system, outsold every Metroid game. Nintendo is not going to bank the launch of a system on a series that has never gotten more than 1/5 of the average Mario/Zelda/Pokemon
 
Lancelot said:
Well, you speak for others in there. This is pretty much the first time i'm legitimately convinced of it, and many of those games were already kinda budget releases. TotK and eventually Prime 4 will put an end to this generation for good, assuming the later actually gets a decent switch release and not basically a poorly running demake.
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Nintendo are not going to screw the current install base with a “demake” of Prime 4 lol. Unless the game is open World and full of physics systems it’s not going to look or run any worse than TotK. In a worst case scenario I think it will be 720p/30fps on Switch and 1440p-4KDLSS/60fps on Drake.
 
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darthdiablo said:
Gamecube, Wii, WII U launched without a new Mario or Zelda title. You're acting like only Mario and Zelda can be the "heavy hitters" and nothing else can be.

Metroid Prime 4 would be absolutely a fantastic launch title for Swtich particularly if there's a focus on utilizing Switch 2's upgraded hardware for the Switch 2 version of the game whenever it be stand-alone Switch 2 title, or day 1 patch on top of Switch 1 game.

Launch lineup doesn't have to be centered around a single game. As for "launch window" games (games that comes in after launch), we simply don't know what Nintendo has planned. Who's to say a new 3D Mario game isn't planned for "launch window" (within 1st year) of Switch 2 launch?
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Metroid Prime 4 as a cross gen launch title does sound perfect to me. It would make it very clear what their strategy is, and how compatibility works. I just hope they're smart and make sure cross gen games are single SKUs. They appear to have done the legwork in the system software to enable this, but I'm nervous the executives will demand seperate SKUs for one reason or another. The ideal launch title is a cross gen Prime 4, with the same box, the same Game Card, the same icon across generations, just with the addition of the new console's name above or below the Nintendo Switch logo on the box. Super Nintendo Switch putting 'Super' between the logo and logotype, or 'Generation 2' as a banner below it. My concern is where and how they'll list compatibility. Will it be like 3DS' 2DS disclaimer, small text at the bottom? A banner like Xbox? Will it just be a text box on the back of the game box that says "Compatible with Generation 2 and Generation 1 Nintendo Switch systems."? What about the Game Boy Color approach, where every cross-gen game comes in a "Super Nintendo Switch" box, with games that ONLY work on NG saying "Only For". Or will cross-gen games just put TWO logos on the front?!
 
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darthdiablo said:
Gamecube, Wii, WII U launched without a new Mario or Zelda title. You're acting like only Mario and Zelda can be the "heavy hitters" and nothing else can be.

Metroid Prime 4 would be absolutely a fantastic launch title for Swtich particularly if there's a focus on utilizing Switch 2's upgraded hardware for the Switch 2 version of the game whenever it be stand-alone Switch 2 title, or day 1 patch on top of Switch 1 game.

Launch lineup doesn't have to be centered around a single game. As for "launch window" games (games that comes in after launch), we simply don't know what Nintendo has planned. Who's to say a new 3D Mario game isn't planned for "launch window" (within 1st year) of Switch 2 launch?
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NSMBU erasure?
 
Joy-Boy said:
Those arent really great examples seeing as how Gamecube and Wii U were not amazingly selling systems
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You're not really making a great counterpoint considering Wii was the best selling system before Switch.
Joy-Boy said:
The systems without heavy hitter (Mario, Zelda) titles fumbled, and the systems with heavy hitter titles (NES, N64, Switch, etc) all had amazing launches and momentum. Nintendo has more than enough examples to know what does and does not work. Mario and Zelda works.
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Again, conveniently ignoring/glossing over Wii that is counter to your argument.
Joy-Boy said:
Even NSMB U, a launch title that was deemed catastophic for the system, outsold every Metroid game. Nintendo is not going to bank the launch of a system on a series that has never gotten more than 1/3 of the average Mario/Zelda/Pokemon
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The problem I have with your way of thinking is you're basically saying Nintendo shouldn't launch systems without a Mario or Zelda title. Which with due respect is baloney, Wii sold just fine without a Mario or Zelda title at launch.
 
SirArthur said:


An interesting talk about the upcoming RTS, from ex-Starcraft devs and their experience of using their own engine with layers of UE5.

Side note: Isn't the purpose of the other switch 2 thread to talk about launch lineups, etc.
Click to expand...

Nintendo hardware is in Nintendo's words, "integrated" with its software. The focus here when talking about software is usually how that integrates with the hardware. Tears of the Kingdom and scrolling shoulder buttons, Metroid Prime 4 and the software and design required to enable smooth cross-gen. Pure chatter about software isn't really what this place is for, but as long as that software is relevant to the hardware, it's usually fine. (I.E., people saying "3D Mario on NG Switch is a lock." isn't very relevant, while saying "I wonder how RT will be used in the next 3D Mario" would be relevant.)

Due to how deeply integrated hardware and software are, both from a business and technology perspective, it's difficult, and I'd say impossible, to extracate one from the other.

I'm not the arbiter on these things of course, these are just what I've seen over the last year or what have you of being here.

For an immediate example, I was just talking about how Prime 4 will be impacted by their cross-gen initiative, which is very much relevant to the technology, especially system software. Thanks to datamines, we can see that there's some degree of cross-gen capabilities in the OS, with new memory management, a new patch type, and the ability to address different sizes of memory all being added in updates, despite none of these seeming to be relevant to the Gen1 Switch.
 
darthdiablo said:
You're not really making a great counterpoint considering Wii was the best selling system before Switch.

Again, conveniently ignoring/glossing over Wii that is counter to your argument.

The problem I have with your way of thinking is you're basically saying Nintendo shouldn't launch systems without a Mario or Zelda title. Which with due respect is baloney, Wii sold just fine without a Mario or Zelda title at launch.
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Wii Sports is a game that became a cultural phenomenon that managed to attract people to the system in droves. People who had never even touched a video game system before. It became a heavy hitter on the level of Mario/Zelda, which only supports the fact that you need to launch a system with a game that will capture the public zeitgeist, not detracts from it.

Mario has proven to have done that. Zelda has proven to have done that. Wii Sports did that.
Metroid on the other hand, has proven it has not done that. It has not even reached near the levels of sales on systems with dedicated install bases to back it up.

If Nintendo cant convinc people to buy Metroid on systems they already own, how do you expect them to drop $350-400 on a new system for it?
 
darthdiablo said:
Isn't NSMBU based on NSMB? That's why I used the "new" qualifier (new Mario or new Zelda title).

If Switch 2 launched with a "deluxe" version of Super Mario Galaxy 2, I don't think most of us would consider it a "new" Mario game.
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What... NSMBU is a sequel to NSMBW, they're all different games with different levels. They're not "deluxe" versions of one another. They're completely different games that share a style.


darthdiablo said:
Again, conveniently ignoring/glossing over Wii that is counter to your argument.
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Wii launched with Twilight Princess, Switch launched with BOTW, both cross-gen.
 
If the main launch title of Switch 2 is Prime 4 (cross-gen or not), they might as well not launch the console at all in Japan.

A cross-gen Prime 4 makes perfect sense as a launch window game some months after (or before) Switch 2, targeting the Western hardcore audience.
 
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