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Pre-Release Super Mario Bros. Wonder — Pre-release Discussion Thread

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ertaboy356b said:
Haven't read the thread but I hate how the NSMB series is just a Mario 3 remake where worlds are themed to a specific gimmick. I like the SMW approach tbh.
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Come to think of it, this is something I noticed too and it’s kind of interesting that you don’t see this aspect of world discussed much, or I guess “called out” for.

It kinda has like… way less environmental variety than other 2D Mario games. But I guess that lent the game a bit of cohesion that isn’t really present in other games where you can see the dividing line between grasslands and desert for example.

“World 4” simply being the set of bridges with only like 3 athletic courses that connects worlds 3 and 5 doesn’t seem like something Nintendo would design today, but it made sense in context.

That always kind of struck me as a cool subversion of expectations, same with Yoshi’s Island and Donut Plains both being “grasslands,” but with enough subtle differences that you can still tell them apart despite being cohesive, then Vanilla Dome being all underground. Those entire first three world themes are something most other Mario games cover in their first two levels, but it never really bothered me in World.
 
Phendrift said:
Come to think of it, this is something I noticed too and it’s kind of interesting that you don’t see this aspect of world discussed much, or I guess “called out” for.

It kinda has like… way less environmental variety than other 2D Mario games. But I guess that lent the game a bit of cohesion that isn’t really present in other games where you can see the dividing line between grasslands and desert for example.

“World 4” simply being the set of bridges with only like 3 athletic courses that connects worlds 3 and 5 doesn’t seem like something Nintendo would design today, but it made sense in context.

That always kind of struck me as a cool subversion of expectations, same with Yoshi’s Island and Donut Plains both being “grasslands,” but with enough subtle differences that you can still tell them apart despite being cohesive, then Vanilla Dome being all underground. Those entire first three world themes are something most other Mario games cover in their first two levels, but it never really bothered me in World.
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I always hated the "desert" as World 2, it always stuck me as being formulaic. This what makes me think that this is just another Mario 3 clone.

SMW on the other hand is like going in on an adventure. The world is like a big open world map. In donut plains alone, you can play an underwater level, a cave level, a scrolling level, an ice level, and a ghost level. The variety is great and the secret exits are obvious and not as hard to find as in the NSMB games.

World 4 is even divided into two, the upper portion where the bridge is, and the ground portion where you can also access an underwater level by either flying in pinpoint accuracy with your cape or sacrificing a yoshi.

NSMBU is great and all, it has a SMW-like map, but the developers never steer away from the cliche called "World 2 Desert Level". The world change is jarring and not as seamless as in SMW.
 
Phendrift said:
Come to think of it, this is something I noticed too and it’s kind of interesting that you don’t see this aspect of world discussed much, or I guess “called out” for.

It kinda has like… way less environmental variety than other 2D Mario games. But I guess that lent the game a bit of cohesion that isn’t really present in other games where you can see the dividing line between grasslands and desert for example.

“World 4” simply being the set of bridges with only like 3 athletic courses that connects worlds 3 and 5 doesn’t seem like something Nintendo would design today, but it made sense in context.

That always kind of struck me as a cool subversion of expectations, same with Yoshi’s Island and Donut Plains both being “grasslands,” but with enough subtle differences that you can still tell them apart despite being cohesive, then Vanilla Dome being all underground. Those entire first three world themes are something most other Mario games cover in their first two levels, but it never really bothered me in World.
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In my experience the lack of visual variety is one of the most common criticisms of Mario World. I do agree it's a tradeoff for visual cohesion, but overall I still prefer SMB3's approach to it.
 
Reminder that world 2 of NSMBU is a “Dessert” themed desert world and they did nothing with it for the actual levels.
Tbh after playing super mario bros 3 the past month I came to the realization that every nsmb game is basically a remake of smb3, it really feels like Nintendo’s idea for a true 2d mario game is the original super mario bros with the ideas of smb3.
 
Stilt Village said:
It seems about average for 2D Mario, which frankly has never had a history of really great music in the grand scheme of things. It's better than a lot of recent Nintendo games because it's a more traditional video game soundtrack, but it's nothing special either, and it kind of sounds 20 years out of date. 10 years ago Mario music was 3D World with live instruments, so this makes the Wonder soundtrack seem kind of like an afterthought in comparison. It'll probably be better than NSMBWii/2/U at least.

Also, the "main theme" thing that a lot of platform games seem to find obligatory, where a significant portion of the soundtrack is entirely arrangements of one singular piece in different styles, is a huge pet peeve of mine.

I feel like Yoshi's Story should have put an end to the practice forever because like, it's clear there is just no further you can take it. No matter how creative you are with your arrangements, music is the sum of all its parts, and the underlying composition is one of the more important ones. The same recognizable arrangement of notes simply cannot serve every mood and circumstance equally.

It, like a lot of platformer trends I dislike tbh, can be traced back to Super Mario World. Super Mario World is the original "we only wrote one song" soundtrack, and every subsequent Mario game that so much as has a main theme that gets an athletic variation is following in its footsteps to at least some extent. It hit Yoshi the hardest and most infamously, but it's not limited to Mario World's direct legacy. Some other examples would be Sly 2, Kirby and the Forgotten Land, and Celeste.

I love recurring motifs and all, but in my opinion, if no one ever did this again it would be too soon.
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Leitmotif’s went from really cool to just wanting it to end.

Yeah I get it calling back to the stArt of the adventure or whatever allegorical bullshit you can cook up is cool, But everyone is doing that it’s not unqiue, it’s not special, it’s certainly not interesting or thought provoking in any way, it’s just elitist at this point tbh, just throw a short melody there as an Easter egg and have the rest of it be unique, kid Icarus uprising got it right.

I also think it just doesn’t work in 2d platformers, sonic mania is imo the perfect 2d platforming soundtrack.
 
Kartina said:
Reminder that world 2 of NSMBU is a “Dessert” themed desert world and they did nothing with it for the actual levels.
Tbh after playing super mario bros 3 the past month I came to the realization that every nsmb game is basically a remake of smb3, it really feels like Nintendo’s idea for a true 2d mario game is the original super mario bros with the ideas of smb3.
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Bar yoshi super Mario world definitely was the least influential early 2d Mario.
 
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Phendrift said:
Come to think of it, this is something I noticed too and it’s kind of interesting that you don’t see this aspect of world discussed much, or I guess “called out” for.

It kinda has like… way less environmental variety than other 2D Mario games. But I guess that lent the game a bit of cohesion that isn’t really present in other games where you can see the dividing line between grasslands and desert for example.

“World 4” simply being the set of bridges with only like 3 athletic courses that connects worlds 3 and 5 doesn’t seem like something Nintendo would design today, but it made sense in context.

That always kind of struck me as a cool subversion of expectations, same with Yoshi’s Island and Donut Plains both being “grasslands,” but with enough subtle differences that you can still tell them apart despite being cohesive, then Vanilla Dome being all underground. Those entire first three world themes are something most other Mario games cover in their first two levels, but it never really bothered me in World.
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I feel like the lack of environmental variety comes up pretty frequently in 3 vs World discussions as one of the big points in 3's favor.

Personally, I always figured the various weird elements of the game like the bridge world were mostly down to it being rushed. It might have had more cohesive art, more consistent world structures, more level variety, etc. if it had more development time. Playing kaizo hacks for the first time is weird because you realize there are tons and tons of mechanics they put in that the game never actually used for anything of note. Why did they decide to make Mario fall slower if you're holding the jump button? Who even knew about that? It's a very strangely sandboxy game, especially for its age.

ertaboy356b said:
I always hated the "desert" as World 2, it always stuck me as being formulaic. This what makes me think that this is just another Mario 3 clone.
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But World 2 in Mario Wonder isn't the desert...
 
The strong aversion to video game music that reuses leitmotifs in this thread is weird. It can get monotonous, but calling it "elitist" is too much.

Don't think this game will have that problem, anyway. Only four songs in this game so far (overworld, athletic, jungle, badge challenge) actually do that; the rest of the music I've heard in the Direct and preview footage have distinct melodies and great variety in instrumentation.
 
Raccoon said:
no offense but aren't you like 19

last time one was even coming out you were 8

which I guess is old enough to be excited for a video game but that was so not me lol
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As another relatively young board member here, I’d almost argue that made things more exciting. I didn’t care about whether New Soup was stale or not, I just saw another 2D Mario and was hyped through the roof.

NSMBW was the first game I was ever truly excited for pre-release, now that I think about it. Was more excited for Galaxy 2, but I still remember how exciting it was to get it for Christmas.


SpaceGodzilla said:
F8BGG82WMAAgPpn
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Jesus this game is gorgeous
 
Galaxy 2 was like the first piece of media ever that I was hyped for and counting down the days to release.

1 was my childhood game and got me obsessed with Mario. Went on MarioWiki one day randomly and saw Galaxy 2 E3 reveal (had no idea what E3 was at the time) in the news section on the front page and was legitimately over the moon. I still remember the exact moment and where I was even though I was like 10.
 
O. W. Funnyname said:
The strong aversion to video game music that reuses leitmotifs in this thread is weird. It can get monotonous, but calling it "elitist" is too much.

Don't think this game will have that problem, anyway. Only four songs in this game so far (overworld, athletic, jungle, badge challenge) actually do that; the rest of the music I've heard in the Direct and preview footage have distinct melodies and great variety in instrumentation.
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I hoes lot think it’s. cause alsmot every game I played recently had that and it is getting really tiring for me it’s more a me thing.

But I also think leitmotifs used sparingly creates a much stronger impact when they’re used.
 
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this is the first game i have pre-ordered since i think literally sometime in high school. i'm so pumped.

hoping target accidentally sends out my copy early... 👁️👄👁️
 
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O. W. Funnyname said:
The strong aversion to video game music that reuses leitmotifs in this thread is weird. It can get monotonous, but calling it "elitist" is too much.

Don't think this game will have that problem, anyway. Only four songs in this game so far (overworld, athletic, jungle, badge challenge) actually do that; the rest of the music I've heard in the Direct and preview footage have distinct melodies and great variety in instrumentation.
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I love leitmotifs, but that isn't what this is. Leitmotifs are short phrases with thematic purpose. This is just a whole piece being reprised and reused over and over.

Even if there was only one version though, that doesn't change that the Mario tradition of having a primary theme that plays throughout a ton of the game's overworld levels is a pretty dated way of doing a platformer soundtrack, which has arguably been the case ever since Sonic existed.

Phendrift said:
Galaxy 2 was like the first piece of media ever that I was hyped for and counting down the days to release.

1 was my childhood game and got me obsessed with Mario. Went on MarioWiki one day randomly and saw Galaxy 2 E3 reveal (had no idea what E3 was at the time) in the news section on the front page and was legitimately over the moon. I still remember the exact moment and where I was even though I was like 10.
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I had almost the same experience, except I found out about it via seeing the E3 trailer on the Nintendo Channel (anyone remember that thing?)

The only other game I got like that about where I obsessively scoured the internet for information on it every day was Tropical Freeze.
 
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This thread is making me feel old! The first game I remember actively anticipating before release was Super Smash Bros. Melee, at the ripe age of 6. Meanwhile the first core Mario game I remember hyping over was a light amount of excitement for New Super Mario Bros. I'm sure I looked forward to Mario spinoffs and such too, and I had Mario Sunshine pre-ordered for me, but I can clearly remember commercials for NSMB and it being a retro throwback. Gosh, to think that game would go on to shape the Mario Brand so deeply!
 
I guess one of the things people may criticize about the OST is the fact a lot of it is... calm and cheer-y. There are no grand tracks a la Odyssey with live orchestration or compositions with a lot of build-up.
It still is more varied than the NSMB games ever were. Some of the tracks, such as the Underground remix, would feel right at home in one of the RPGs.
 
VolcanicDynamo said:
This thread is making me feel old! The first game I remember actively anticipating before release was Super Smash Bros. Melee, at the ripe age of 6. Meanwhile the first core Mario game I remember hyping over was a light amount of excitement for New Super Mario Bros. I'm sure I looked forward to Mario spinoffs and such too, and I had Mario Sunshine pre-ordered for me, but I can clearly remember commercials for NSMB and it being a retro throwback. Gosh, to think that game would go on to shape the Mario Brand so deeply!
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You made me feel super old.

I was hyped to own Super Mario Bros after seeing it on my friend’s NES.

I remember the excitement of my dad bringing home Super Mario Bros 3.

All these years later and I’m hyped for Super Mario Bros Wonder and will be playing it with my son. The first new Mario platformer to be released in his lifetime.
 
entut1 said:
I guess one of the things people may criticize about the OST is the fact a lot of it is... calm and cheer-y. There are no grand tracks a la Odyssey with live orchestration or compositions with a lot of build-up.
It still is more varied than the NSMB games ever were. Some of the tracks, such as the Underground remix, would feel right at home in one of the RPGs.
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As someone who loves those tracks in Galaxy and Odyssey, I don’t necessarily want those for Wonder. Can’t really picture the game with Fossil Falls or Gusty Garden type of stuff.

The game having a musical identity of its own that works well with it is the most I can ask for tbh. We’ll see!
 
Played the demo today and came away really liking it. I was already pretty excited but this definitely multiplied it. The new animations make it feel snappy and lively, and the game has this really nostalgic vibe to it in a way the NSMB games didn't. Like, those games are fine and well-made, but this actually feels like I'm playing a classic SNES platformer. Kinda like this:

8b0.png


The badge system also feels like it's gonna lead to a lot of replayability (which seems to be what Tezuka intended based on an interview). I feel pretty certain this game will be the NSMB team's redemption arc and make 2D Mario feel like an event again. A little over a week left!
 
Well now y'all got my all curious which Mario game released in my birth year...

turns out it's MARIO PICROSS LFG

Mario%27s_Picross.jpg
 
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entut1 said:
I guess one of the things people may criticize about the OST is the fact a lot of it is... calm and cheer-y. There are no grand tracks a la Odyssey with live orchestration or compositions with a lot of build-up.
It still is more varied than the NSMB games ever were. Some of the tracks, such as the Underground remix, would feel right at home in one of the RPGs.
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I kinda feel like platformers shouldn't have that big booming orchestra music anyway. Its great for RPGs but platformers? Especially 2D ones? Gimme jazz, gimme pop, gimme techno, gimme progrock!

ILikeFeet said:
old-man-walking.gif
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Yup.
In the words of Dr. Emmet Brown, "Thank god I've still got my hair."

Cheetah6442 said:
I really hope my fondness and love for gaming remains as strong as ever when I get into my 50s/60s.
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Hey now 🤣
 
Depending on which date you count it, I'm a SMW baby, which is fitting as it was my first video game ever
 
I do want this to be a difficult game. For other genres, I don't mind about the difficulty, for some I even pick the easiest one. But for 2D ones, I care. Because only in 2D platformers we can have the long argued "fair difficulty" thing. No enemies with increased lives, no enemies that do one hit KO attacks. Just plain, jump, if you can't, try again.

The reason why I love the SMB3 is that it's a very difficult game without having anything that makes the game any difficult. When you fail, you don't say "eff this game" and throw the controller away. Instead you go "heh, silly me" and try again and again and again. Like the stage where the evil sun chases you. It's super short but everytime I replay the game I die on that few times. Always. And I love it. I really hope Wonder has moments like this. Can't say for sure but those badge challenges feel like they are.
 
Call me an apologist, but I will defend the Super Mario World OST with my life. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the variety of other soundtracks. The 2D Sonic games have some of the best songs around. But I like how Mario games can get a lot out of a central melody! I like how that's been a Mario staple since World, with nearly every game in the series pulling from that concept in some way, not a full soundtrack's worth but still using a familiar melody. It's yet another franchise staple and I can't see it as outdated - It's just a stylistic choice. Not one you have to like, mind you! But one nevertheless.
 
Super Mario World has a great OST. I just wonder when we'll get a new original underground theme.

If anyone's interested, there's a fantastic, official jazz version that covers many of the songs in World and a few others as well.

 
VolcanicDynamo said:
Call me an apologist, but I will defend the Super Mario World OST with my life. Don't get me wrong - I enjoy the variety of other soundtracks. The 2D Sonic games have some of the best songs around. But I like how Mario games can get a lot out of a central melody! I like how that's been a Mario staple since World, with nearly every game in the series pulling from that concept in some way, not a full soundtrack's worth but still using a familiar melody. It's yet another franchise staple and I can't see it as outdated - It's just a stylistic choice. Not one you have to like, mind you! But one nevertheless.
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I feel similarly; I think using a single leitmotif for all of the stage music was a cute thing to try for one installment. It’d probably overstay its welcome if they did it again (Wonder doesn’t seem to be going any further than the likes of 3D World does) but as a one-off it’s just another element that makes World stand out from what came before and after.

The new Airship / Snow / Desert / Forest music made for the Maker games isn’t all accurate to how they would actually sound in World but it’s nice they still followed the leitmotif even decades later.
 
VolcanicDynamo said:
...so are we counting Yoshi's Island for the whole "What Mario game matches your birth year" thing, or...?
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I'm counting it just this once, because a) Yoshi's Island is a top 3 game for me and b) I'm really not vibing with my other options for that year.

(sorry to all the Mario's Tennis for Virtual Boy fan out there)
 
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