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StarTopic Future Nintendo Hardware & Technology Speculation & Discussion |ST| (New Staff Post, Please read)

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Kise Ryota said:
How easy would it be to move from SEC 8nm to another SEC node? I was a bit surprised by that (xbox at 6nm for oct 2024), and I'm already moving my mind back to SEC 8nm as the worst case scenario (I think I became too confident in the tsmc 4N)
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Not very. It's going to be expensive
 
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RumHamRigRunner said:
Imagine being an Xbox higher-up and waking up to this lmao
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batphone-batman1966.gif
 
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Is there even any point to having 1536 CUDA cores on 8nm for Switch sized device? What would the GPU clock even be? 400 MHz?

Wouldn't you just be better off cutting it down to 1024 CUDA cores or something and clocking higher? That would be cheaper for the same performance, no?
 
ns156 said:
Fair enough, but are there downsides to a TL layer over baking it in? From say a performance or compatibility POV.



I agree with this. But, if they put in the effort to 4k/60 their stuff, I'm game for paying. Because regular Nintendo wouldn't do shit.



It's been beaten to death why 8nm is a horrible choice for Nintendo: since we know the GPU has 12SMs, they would have to go through a lot of failed wafers on that crappy 8nm Samsung process to get usable SoCs. That eliminates the cost savings vs the higher yield 5nm already. They'd have to be getting massive discounts from Samsung to go this route.

Even then, we end up with design problems. If we come anywhere close to the rumoured specs we saw at Gamescom, then this thing is going to be one fat tablet to get the power and battery life. It just goes against Nintendo's design philosophy for the Switch at that point.

Also, frame gen is a waste of time due to added latency and how terrible it is at low framerates. Not even entertaining that option unless Nvidia put in some serious work for it.
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Tbh now I'm thinking they actually won't implement Frame Gen, unless like you've said NVIDIA put some serious work into fixing the latency issue.

One of the biggest problems for DLSS 3 Frame Generation from the perspective of a console is that there's no current way to lock your framerate with Frame Generation active without some serious latency problems. In fact Frame Gen locked to 60FPS in some instances just breaks in its current state.

They would need to figure out a way to get Frame Generation working with consistent frametimes at a locked 30 or 60 or 120 FPS for it to be viable on the next Switch. There's a very slim chance that happens but if it does I'm pretty sure that's an improvement NVIDIA would bring to the PC side of things as well. It's really tricky because you're dealing with interpolation on some level.
 
Machrider said:
Is there even any point to having 1536 CUDA cores on 8nm for Switch sized device? What would the GPU clock even be? 400 MHz?

Wouldn't you just be better off cutting it down to 1024 CUDA cores or something and clocking higher? That would be cheaper for the same performance, no?
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this is why I think they'll have moved to 5nm or possibly even TSMC 4N. The big benefit that Ada Lovelace GPUs have over Ampere GPUs aside from additional hardware for Frame Generation and improved Tensor and Ray Tracing cores is the fact that they can fit more CUDA cores for the same power consumption and at better clocks. For example the 3060 Ti and 4070 are both mid-range graphics cards with the same TDP (200W), but the 4070 has more than 20% extra CUDA cores at boost clock speeds that are almost 50% higher.

In fact another reason why an Ampere die-shrink seems more likely compared to Lovelace is memory bandwidth. Lovelace is not as optimized for faster memory on the lower end (everything uses GDDR6X except for 4060/4060 Ti/likely 4050 which use GDDR6) and uses smaller bus widths compared to Ampere (3070 Ti and up used GDDR6X but everything else was GDDR6). If the new Switch is using LPDDR5, a wider bus width is more preferable.
 
Those leaked emails show why the acquisition of Activision should not have been allowed, it shows that the true ambition of Microsoft is not only to oust Sony from the gaming industry but also remove Nintendo as an independent player. And the Activision acquisition only serves to further such ambitions on Microsoft's part.
 
Danny said:
Those leaked emails show why the acquisition of Activision should not have been allowed, it shows that the true ambition of Microsoft is not only to oust Sony from the gaming industry but also remove Nintendo as an independent player. And the Activision acquisition only serves to further such ambitions on Microsoft's part.
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no bro it's just healthy competition just let poor little Microsoft buy valve and nintendo so they stop being the little guys 😢
 
All this nonsense makes me love the first Xbox even more, the time when Microsoft played nice and competed in a good way, by giving us powerful hardware, while giving us exclusives without buying up big companies. They just want to get rid of all competition in a malicious way.

They messed up ever since the Xbox One, thinking that they can somehow buy success by attaining all these successful companies. I'm sick and tired of it.
 
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Dunno where i should eat my popcorn at, the stuff that happend during the night in here, or the MS leaks.

ReddDreadtheLead said:
H2 is going to be pretty crowded in traffic for hardware.

i wonder if this is what Nintendo wanted to launch ahead of.


When the switch launched it was pretty isolated. Regardless of the timing of the switch next, if H2, it’ll be within the XBox refresh and the PS5 Pro range.

Transportation will be a bit harder to get worldwide. Notice that I’m focusing on the transportation of the device or retail.

I’d think XBox would want to get to 6nm product out as soon as possible due to it being easier to manufacture, and PS5 Pro will want to make a splash with its [REDACTED] level of performance or it’ll be a dud, and they do not want to waste that R&D.


No matter how you look at it, it’ll be busy. “Oh but they have IPs!” And stores have shelf space. You work with what you got!
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Redd, you're my friend, so i always have a premium seat reserved for you at Team ASAP and Team H1 2024's shared meeting room.

Mobius said:


Looks like this was not intented. (If Tom is talking about that pdf)
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Someone at the FTC is getting fired, and i'm pretty sure MS will ask for Lina Khan getting fired, too.

Those leaks are a massive damage for MS.
 
Terrarios said:
Hello guys, what evidence do we have that nintendo will use 1080p screen instead of 720p ?
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Nvidia leak had two target resolutions for the hardware, 1080p and 4K. 4K is probably TV mode, and 1080p is probably handheld mode.

Furthermore, rendering a game using DLSS performance mode for 1080p would require less power than a native 720p, while producing a better quality image.

Drop the target resolution of DLSS to 720p, and things start getting ugly. 1080p is a sort of sweet spot for DLSS and power consumption.
 
So we supposedly have Xbox Series S refresh and PS5 Pro both planned for Holiday 2024

Chances that Nintendo joins the bbq party are very slim. They like to operate in their own world

I think it makes H1 even more plausible now.

I wonder if those new models from X and Sony will be aligned with the GTA VI release
 
ShadowFox08 said:
What would have stopped Nintendo and Nvidia from using 6nm instead of 4nm? 🤔
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It would make the SOC more expensive per unit despite the decreased wafer cost, since each SOC would use so much more silicon.

And it would consume more power.

Also Nvidia doesn't make anything on 6nm.

And by 4nm I mean 4N (actually 5nm).
 
So, of course we're only really focused right now on Nintendo's next hardware, and not their next next hardware, so its a bit too early to be speculating about this.

However, noting that by launching in 2024 Nintendo's likely going to have most of the next console lifecycle with regular PS5/Series X support to take full advantage of and in turn PS6/ARM Xbox aren't too much of a concern, I am intrigued where this ARM news puts our thoughts for the console after the Switch 2. Now, if Sony goes the x86 route, then thats going to be what defines "console like" CPU performance for the next generation and Nintendo will be able to continue on quite happily taking advantage of their similar enough portable ARM performance. Noting as well that Microsoft hasn't actually committed to ARM, and there are a lot of challenges that could still stop them from taking the full leap into ARM, or that might scare Sony but not Microsoft off, lets assume both do go with ARM, and miraculously, PC gaming follows suit in time for the next generation to be defined with home console ARM being what defines "console like" CPU performance.

This does seem to block off Nintendo from making a hybrid capable of taking advantage of full multiplatform support, correct? Of course, even if Sony and Microsoft both make the jump to ARM, if PC gaming doesn't catch up, consoles will have some real nice CPUs, but games on PC will likely still have to be built with x86 in mind for a bit, which could still give Nintendo a chance to get some support early on that gen. But realistically, if everyone jumps over to ARM, and if Nintendo is really committed to keeping as much third party support with the Switch successor's successor, especially if they gain a lot from third party support with the Switch 2, what options do they have? I know the idea of the next system having to contend with everyone jumping to ARM hasnt really been a point of discussion at all here, and its quite far away to be speculating on, but it really seems like, far more than the likely almost non-existent threat of streaming, there really isn't much Nintendo can do to contended with console taking advantage of the same leaps in ARM architecture that are going to allow Switch 2 to get so much support in the first place, from my perspective at least. And again, this is all quite hypothetical, not even Microsoft, let alone Sony or the PC world, has committed to ARM for the next generation yet. Of course none of this changes whatever future parity Nintendo would have had with memory, storage, and GPU, so in the end its only one aspect of third party support, but its also one that could have some massive ramifications on portability. And ability to port games that was poor word choice.
 
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Danny said:
Those leaked emails show why the acquisition of Activision should not have been allowed, it shows that the true ambition of Microsoft is not only to oust Sony from the gaming industry but also remove Nintendo as an independent player. And the Activision acquisition only serves to further such ambitions on Microsoft's part.
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That's MS for you.
 
ARM Xbox is an interesting scenario. As it would free them up to go with nVidia instead of AMD and enable them to also use DLSS and the other nifty things.
Would Sony stay with x86? That could backfire if AMD isn't able to come up with a serious DLSS competitor, FSR is good but doesn't cut it.

I bet MS is going to OBSERVE the ReDraketed with a lot of eyes.

Always said it, happily repeat it: ReDraketed is nVidia's trojan horse back into the console market in a big way, that's the (or one of the) reasons they're seemingly going so hard with that device.
 
pelusilla6 said:
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Is there anything to be concerned over in his harping on about the 'long game' and boasting of using an affiliated entity to try buying up Nintendo shares to increase influence and pressure a sale? Hopefully Nintendo respond accordingly and retaliate appropriately to this whatever way they can, whether its by cutting Microsoft out of their future business partnerships or ousting the conspiring shareholders and placing a ban on stock sales to any entity with a Microsoft connection
 
Bonejack said:
ARM Xbox is an interesting scenario. As it would free them up to go with nVidia instead of AMD and enable them to also use DLSS and the other nifty things.
Would Sony stay with x86? That could backfire if AMD isn't able to come up with a serious DLSS competitor, FSR is good but doesn't cut it.

I bet MS is going to OBSERVE the ReDraketed with a lot of eyes.

Always said it, happily repeat it: ReDraketed is nVidia's trojan horse back into the console market in a big way, that's the (or one of the) reasons they're seemingly going so hard with that device.
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It seems quite interestingly, that at least with their current plans, it would still be with an AMD GPU. Implying that it would be an AMD co-developed APU, or theyd just license AMD's GPU IP to design the GPU. Quite interestingly, they cite ML based super resolution outright as a planned feature, so regardless of AMD's solutions, thats worth keeping in mind. Nintendo will have challenges in the GPU space regardless next generation it feels like.

It is worth noting either way, the same slide implies Microsoft hasn't committed to ARM yet. They also cite Zen 6 as a feasible option. Implying there are very real roadblocks that make ARM not the immediate obvious choice at the time of this document. Hence why I was ask about the absolute hypothetical case that by, 2030, 2031, everyone's jumped ship to ARM, where does that leave Nintendo? Certainly when it comes to GPU its curious as well, but if AMD decides to commit to hardware accelerated ML super resolution, Nvidia has shown to be keen to find new ways to create new GPU tech tied to their own proprietary hardware, so its not impossible Nintendo will be able to get some new secret sauce to close the gap again with GPU next gen. But CPU.... the same architecture but a console sized chip with a console number of cores and a console's worth of wattage? Even 3 years of node improvements are going to make that difficult for Nintendo to get parity with.
 
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GigaUltraMoon said:
Is there anything to be concerned over in his harping on about the 'long game' and boasting of using an affiliated entity to try buying up Nintendo shares to increase influence and pressure a sale? Hopefully Nintendo respond accordingly and retaliate appropriately to this whatever way they can, whether its by cutting Microsoft out of their future business partnerships or ousting the conspiring shareholders and placing a ban on stock sales to any entity with a Microsoft connection
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Average Microsoft exec speak
 
Hajeman said:
Really hope that a Switch 2 will have 4-5 hours AAA gameplay handheld mode to differentiate them from all of these competitors from Steam Deck 2, PSP4, Xbox Handheld, Iphone 15 Pro etc
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Power consumption is likely same as original Switch, however, battery is likely to be 50% higher capacity, so I'd say 3.5Hrs in AAA titles is reasonable.
 
GigaUltraMoon said:
Is there anything to be concerned over in his harping on about the 'long game' and boasting of using an affiliated entity to try buying up Nintendo shares to increase influence and pressure a sale? Hopefully Nintendo respond accordingly and retaliate appropriately to this whatever way they can, whether its by cutting Microsoft out of their future business partnerships or ousting the conspiring shareholders and placing a ban on stock sales to any entity with a Microsoft connection
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Nintendo president have been asked by shareholders how Nintendo will react to any ''hostile takeover'' attempts:

We have not adopted what are generally called anti-takeover measures. However, in the case that we face a hostile takeover that would damage the value of the company or the common interest of the company's shareholders, we do have systems in place, both within the company and in connection with outside experts for such an occurrence, to take all legal and appropriate steps against it even if we have not proactively put preventive measures in place.
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He finished up by saying the company would continue to consider how it would respond to such a scenario in the future:

Going forward, we will continue to investigate how we would respond to a hostile takeover.
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www.nintendolife.com

Nintendo Explains How It Would Combat A Hostile Takeover

“We do have systems in place”
www.nintendolife.com www.nintendolife.com

So Nintendo may even be aware of Microsoft goal to stage a hostile takeover of them.
 
Leo said:
This will piss off Nintendo so much, say goodbye to any chances of Rare games showing up again on NSO or whatever
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It's typical business behaviour, and they've tried it before. Nintendo's always known that Microsoft wants them and being publicly listed makes that possible without their explicit permission. I don't think it's going to seriously damage relationships, other than Nintendo wagging a finger.
 
Danny said:
Nintendo president have been asked by shareholders how Nintendo will react to any ''hostile takeover'' attempts:


www.nintendolife.com

Nintendo Explains How It Would Combat A Hostile Takeover

“We do have systems in place”
www.nintendolife.com www.nintendolife.com

So Nintendo may even be aware of Microsoft goal to stage a hostile takeover of them.
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So they've probably had a good read on Phil Serpent for some time and have their own St. Patrick waiting in the wings for the chance to banish him off their islands? That's reassuring at least
 
If anyone of you is really afraid MS might take over Nintendo...

Don't be.

Really. Don't be.

GigaUltraMoon said:
So they've probably had a good read on Phil Serpent for some time and have their own St. Patrick waiting in the wings for the chance to banish him off their islands? That's reassuring at least
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Could we not start names like "Phil Serpent"? No matter how shitty, the dude is simply doing his job.

Talks or theories like the MS ones exist in every company, even Nintendo.

And in many cases (not Nintendo's imo), the only reason these talks and theories stay talks and theories is simply money.

Or do you really believe if Sony would have a warchest the size of MS' ones, they wouldn't try to grab up thirds like Activision or Take 2?
 
Bonejack said:
If anyone of you is really afraid MS might take over Nintendo...

Don't be.

Really. Don't be.



Could we not start names like "Phil Serpent"? No matter how shitty, the dude is simply doing his job.

Talks or theories like the MS ones exist in every company, even Nintendo.

And in many cases (not Nintendo's imo), the only reason these talks and theories stay talks and theories is simply money.

Or do you really believe if Sony would have a warchest the size of MS' ones, they wouldn't try to grab up thirds like Activision or Take 2?
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Why not? The tone of the communications is as lofty and gloating as it gets all while bragging about the ongoing efforts to insert himself into Nintendo's - among others - future and simultaneously deriding the hardware that his own firm's numbers have never come close to achieving, if he wants to act the snake in private then he can wear the moniker of Phil Serpent in public
 
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Νεφέλωμα said:
When people don't understand political economy they blame individuals.
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I won't pretend to understand political economy, nor should anyone else pretend that undue and disproportionate individuals' influence doesn't exist within all spheres
 
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