Pre-Release Metroid Prime 4: Pre-Release Discussion Thread

[TheSpaceBetween]

It’s a good sign

Yup. If nothing else, it means their chunk of the game they were needed for is complete, and progress is being made.

 

[carbonaxiom]

That's a true open world, but true open worlds are actually quite rare. Games like BOTW/TOTK where you can literally go anywhere after leaving the tutorial are few and far between, and I would argue that most games people call open world don't match up to that.

What I mean (and I think most people?) when we say open world metroidvania is more like... a game that looks and feels more like an open world, but still has the metroidvania-style ability locks and gating. The first thing that came to mind as a comparison is Elden Ring. Elden Ring is very definitely open world, but it's a more restricted open world: You can go to like 75% of the map right off the bat, but there are plenty of areas that are closed off until later: You can't enter Lleyndell until you beat two main bosses, for example. Or, you can't access the Haligtree (which is a pretty large area with a major boss in it) unless you gather two medallion halves and use them in the right place, that's literally the only way to get there. And another entire dungeon-type area is gated by story progress late in the game.

What I'm imagining is that kind of world design, but Metroid-ified and the limitations expanded a bit, and instead of being gated by bosses or keys or NPC quests everything is gated by Samus' abilities instead. For example, maybe you can explore like 50%-60% of the world immediately, but a lot of areas are still gated until you have the right ability or suit or something. So it's not true open world, but the large open areas that you can go to often have the feel of being open world even if they're more limited. Scatter the whole world with the usual missile expansions, health upgrades, and so on (many of which require certain abilities to get as usual) and boom, there you go.

I missed this open world discussion the first time around, but if Metroid Prime 4 were to go for it, then Elden Ring would be the correct model to take, just as you described.

Elden Ring's predecessors, the Dark Souls games, are basically 3D Metroidvanias. Elden Ring makes a compromise in its open world by having a giant, seamless overworld that is still gated with various large dungeons that are designed in the more in the classic Dark Souls style. Many of those dungeons can by bypassed by exploring, so you can choose which to do on your way to beating the game.

There's also a giant underworld area and multiple cave systems, a few of which lead to shortcuts in the overworld. An open world Prime 4 can have a large, open overworld filled with specific areas that are designed in the more classic Metroid style, with corridors and obstacles that require certain powerups to get through. But on top of that, cave systems and a giant underworld can work perfectly with Metroid. It could be a giant series of passageways under the entire map, filled with many optional areas that can serve as shortcuts to other regions in the overworld.

There are even some unique forms of progress gating in Elden Ring.

Spoiler: Solution for an Inaccessible Area in Elden Ring

There's one giant canyon in an area called Caelid that is inaccessible from the overworld because it's too deep and you die from fall damage if you try to jump in. The only way in is through the underworld area, where you find an elevator that takes you up to the canyon. Even in an open world Metroid, you can have paths that work in a similar way in the overworld.

Going open world is also a consistent way to dramatically increase a franchise's sales, not only proven by BOTW and TOTK but also by Elden Ring, which is Dark Souls 4 in all but name. At least, it's definitely an option the series can readily take if it wanted to do so, and I don't think it would fundamentally change the Metroid formula if it did it in a manner similar to what I described above. Combine that with more snappy movement like in Doom 2016 and Doom Eternal and you'd have a very good 3D Metroid game.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

If Prime 4 is to be more open, I'd prefer it model itself off of The Lake of Nine from God of War 2018. A big, explorable central area that branches off in different directions into self contained "levels" that would have the more classic Metroid formula. The Lake also transforms in a way, via the World Serpent moving and thus changing the water level which in turn opens up even more areas. Something similar could work with Metroid I think. But a full on open world is not something I want, or even think would work at all unless you want to make Metroid not a Metroid game.

 

[carbonaxiom]

If Prime 4 is to be more open, I'd prefer it model itself off of The Lake of Nine from God of War 2018. A big, explorable central area that branches off in different directions into self contained "levels" that would have the more classic Metroid formula. The Lake also transforms in a way, via the World Serpent moving and thus changing the water level which in turn opens up even more areas. Something similar could work with Metroid I think. But a full on open world is not something I want, or even think would work at all unless you want to make Metroid not a Metroid game.

I like God of War 2018 a lot, but its definitely a linear game for the most part. An area like The Lake of Nine would be more or less the same structure the Prime games had, especially Prime 2 with the Temple Grounds serving as a hub of sorts for the other regions.

Having read through the previous discussion about open worlds, I'm pretty sure most people here haven't played Elden Ring, and I really recommend it if you haven't. As I said in my other post, it's an open world game that feels like a Metroidvania a lot of the time, and its world structure solved a lot of the problems people have with open world games in general. Of course, it's also a FromSoftware game, so it's very hard, although I also think it's the most accessible game they've made. I'm convinced anyone can beat it with enough patience. And there's definitely a lot of ideas Metroid could take from it.

With that said, Prime 4 will likely just be a larger version of previous Prime games, which would definitely put it more in line with the map structure in God of War. And that's not bad either, since the biggest criticisms I have of the older Prime games are the movement and combat, which were fine when the games were released, but haven't aged that well. Again, I'm hoping they take some cues from the recent Doom games in that regard.

 

[Evil Lucario]

It's funny to bring up the Lake of Nine from God of War 2018 because I was replaying Ocarina of Time recently and it really got me thinking that games STILL use Ocarina of Time's overall content structure.

Hyrule Field = Lake of Nine, has minor exploration things within them, splits off in every direction to new levels and locations, etc. Obviously the Lake of Nine is MUCH more developed and GoW 2018's linear paths have much more level and content, but Ocarina of Time's base design is still very much alive in modern games still.

Just wildly ahead of its time and pioneered almost everything.

Prime 2 also does this, except imagine each area being a super insane Zelda dungeon.

In terms of what Prime 4 has content structure-wise... I just do not want any RPG-like elements like stat leveling to it at all. RPGs are one of my favorite genres but adding that in dilutes enemy balancing and inherent strength of power-ups which I don't want for Metroid, being much faster paced than something like Igavanias which are generally actually slower and more methodical, comparing Prime with Lament of Innocence (kinda) or Fusion/Zero Mission with Aria of Sorrow. Prime 4 being linear or traditional Metroid or open world is not as much of a concern to me as them deciding "we need RPG elements to pad out the game".

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I like God of War 2018 a lot, but its definitely a linear game for the most part. An area like The Lake of Nine would be more or less the same structure the Prime games had, especially Prime 2 with the Temple Grounds serving as a hub of sorts for the other regions.

Having read through the previous discussion about open worlds, I'm pretty sure most people here haven't played Elden Ring, and I really recommend it if you haven't. As I said in my other post, it's an open world game that feels like a Metroidvania a lot of the time, and its world structure solved a lot of the problems people have with open world games in general. Of course, it's also a FromSoftware game, so it's very hard, although I also think it's the most accessible game they've made. I'm convinced anyone can beat it with enough patience. And there's definitely a lot of ideas Metroid could take from it.

With that said, Prime 4 will likely just be a larger version of previous Prime games, which would definitely put it more in line with the map structure in God of War. And that's not bad either, since the biggest criticisms I have of the older Prime games are the movement and combat, which were fine when the games were released, but haven't aged that well. Again, I'm hoping they take some cues from the recent Doom games in that regard.

I have played Elden Ring, and I certainly don't want it to be like that. I think it's an overrated game, though I realize I'm in the minority in that. I also don't agree that the Dark Souls games are 3D Metroidvanias, especially not 2 and 3. I do think there is some Metroid DNA in there for sure, particularly the NES Metroid, and certainly I can feel it's influence from the Prime series in terms of atmosphere and world building. But, to me, the essence of Metroid(vania) design is in item gating, and there is none of that in the Soulsbornekieroring games.

The Temple Grounds is not an apt comparison to the Lake of Nine because the you are still forced to make your way through the Temple grounds in a linear matter, bit by bit inbetween going to the larger levels. There is a lot more wiggle room in the Lake of Nine to go off on side adventures, and even take on larger quests in whole new areas.

 

[lemonfresh]

Would you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes

 

[BozPaggs]

Would you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes

I'd prefer one planet, but I wouldn't mind multiple landing sites if they wanted to have a functioning gunship

 

[Mr Doggo]

Would you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes

prime 3 is my fav of the trilogy and even still id prefer it to be just one MOON actually.

But it needs to be as visually creative as Prime 3 lol, dont go giving me a bunch of agon wastes

 

[Earthbounder]

Would you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes

Multiple planets, but every one of them is as big and varied as Tallon IV.

I know that's never happening and I know many people would call such a design bloated. But I can dream.

 

[carbonaxiom]

I have played Elden Ring, and I certainly don't want it to be like that. I think it's an overrated game, though I realize I'm in the minority in that. I also don't agree that the Dark Souls games are 3D Metroidvanias, especially not 2 and 3. I do think there is some Metroid DNA in there for sure, particularly the NES Metroid, and certainly I can feel it's influence from the Prime series in terms of atmosphere and world building. But, to me, the essence of Metroid(vania) design is in item gating, and there is none of that in the Soulsbornekieroring games.

The Temple Grounds is not an apt comparison to the Lake of Nine because the you are still forced to make your way through the Temple grounds in a linear matter, bit by bit inbetween going to the larger levels. There is a lot more wiggle room in the Lake of Nine to go off on side adventures, and even take on larger quests in whole new areas.

It's definitely harder to decide whether Dark Souls 2 and 3 are Metroidvanias or not, since their level designs are less interconnected, but Dark Souls 1 definitely is one. The difference is that the gates in the map design there are opened through items, while in Metroid they're usually opened via power-ups.

But going back to the open world discussion, if one were to define what makes a game open world in the most basic way possible, it would be the ability to explore a game's overworld without loading screens between any region in that overworld.

Before open world games became feasible, many games would create very large areas that gave the feel of it being open world, without it actually being open by definition. This gets to the most important thing that Prime 4 should aim for, and that is having a large sense of scale. Regardless of how Retro Studios goes about it, the game should feel like it has near endless unique areas to find and explore.

A sense of scale is actually something that Metroid Dread doesn't do that well. Comparisons between 2D and 3D Metroids aren't usually very straightforward, but in this case it does work. Dread has, in my opinion, the best movement out of all the 2D Metroids. Moving around the game's world is amazing, but because of how fast you move, the game's map ends up feeling smaller than it should.

If you compare the maps of Dread to Hollow Knight, both are roughly similar in size, and yet Hollow Knight is a significantly longer game. Part of that is due to Hollow Knight having time consuming RPG mechanics, but another big reason for the difference is that you move much slower when compared to Dread, even after getting the movement and dash charms. Because of this, Dread's world ends up feeling smaller than it really is.

I hope that whatever kind of design Retro go for with the world of Prime 4 is one that feels large in scale for modern day standards, even if they speed up the movement like I would like them to. The game doesn't need to be open world like Tears of the Kingdom, but I would like a series of labyrinths that combine into a map the size of TOTK's map. Or if they're doing multiple planets:

Multiple planets, but every one of them is as big and varied as Tallon IV.

I know that's never happening and I know many people would call such a design bloated. But I can dream.

Something like this could work. I don't think something of such a scale would automatically imply design bloat, but it would definitely mean a lot more work to make enough unique areas and enough content to fill it all. That could mean adding in a lot more bosses, including optional ones, than is typical for Metroid, and also more items and power-ups. With power-ups in particular, I've always thought Metroid games could use more of them, although I'm not sure what they would be or how to fit them all in without making a mess of the user interface.

In any case, there is a lot that can be done to modernize all aspects of the game while still making it feel like Metroid.

 

[TreIII]

Multiple planets, but every one of them is as big and varied as Tallon IV.

I know that's never happening and I know many people would call such a design bloated. But I can dream.

Compromise: it's one in-depth world, but you zap between the past, present and future of it.

If they seriously stick with the "time travel" concept they spoke of a long while ago, that's the main way I could see them being able to have "multiple worlds" again.

 

[Mr Doggo]

If you compare the maps of Dread to Hollow Knight, both are roughly similar in size, and yet Hollow Knight is a significantly longer game. Part of that is due to Hollow Knight having time consuming RPG mechanics, but another big reason for the difference is that you move much slower when compared to Dread, even after getting the movement and dash charms. Because of this, Dread's world ends up feeling smaller than it really is.

Dont compare HK to Dread please. I think HK was incredibly dragged out and slow, that's the opposite of what i want for 2d metroid.

Dread really could have used a few extra hours, from 10 to maybe 15 (in any case the 2d metroid games have been continuously getting larger, bit by bit) but i certainly dont want a game that is as annoying large as HK.

I think 2d Metroid is good enough iterating on what previosu entries did, its fine. MP4 on the other hand...

 

[SmolSam]

Compromise: it's one in-depth world, but you zap between the past, present and future of it.

If they seriously stick with the "time travel" concept they spoke of a long while ago, that's the main way I could see them being able to have "multiple worlds" again.

I guess time travel is a common sci-fi theme that might be addressed in a future game. Although I wouldn't want this franchise to become a "Zelda" with split timelines.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

I guess time travel is a common sci-fi theme that might be addressed in a future game. Although I wouldn't want this franchise to become a "Zelda" with split timelines.

I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do it's own thing.

 

[Mr Doggo]

I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do it's own thing.

not like it changes anything as well.

The 2d games are so self contained lol. I never understood this.

 

[Aurc]

Between Fusion and Dread seems like the only place they could logically position future Prime-style games, assuming they were to want to move away from the time period between Metroid 1 and 2. 2 leads directly into Super, and between Super and Fusion is already Other M.

I'd welcome a game or two set shortly after Fusion, since for me personally, Dread wasn't narratively fulfilling as a sequel to Fusion. Certainly not after a two decade wait. The rogue faction within the Galactic Federation wasn't further explored, and Samus apparently saw zero consequences for disobeying orders and destroying B.S.L. and SR388. As much as I love Dread, they really gave it the least hype intro they possibly could've. The X being back ain't enough. Wet fart intro for me (even the writing for Samus's dialogue felt off).

 

[Mr Doggo]

I think botw did it correctly tbh. I dont feel like the timeline has ever made me think "wow the trilogy is so much better because this samus is the same samus as in the 2d games!"

Just dont adress it. Say it's on a unspecified year who cares lol

 

[Zeal543]

I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do it's own thing.

I disagree, being between m1 and 2 means the prime games can be whatever they want. I would like to see prime split from sakamoto's constant plot screw ups, however.

 

[Phendrift]

Prime 2 also does this, except imagine each area being a super insane Zelda dungeon.

Yeah, Prime 2 always felt like the Metroid game that leaned in the most into Zelda structure. Perhaps a lot of that comes down to Samus straight up collecting items called “temple keys” to progress lol. But yeah, the separation of each area and how you mostly explore one at a time instead of zig zagging across the map like typical Metroid definitely made them feel like massive dungeons

This is how we convince the Zelda traditionalists who were burned by BotW/TotK to buy MP2 remastered when it comes! It needs it

Spoiler

On the same note, Skyward Sword almost returned the favor by being the most Metroid-leaning Zelda. If it was less tutorialized and story-gated - and maybe even the three big surface areas interconnected - it would be much more obvious and almost a spitting image of Prime 2’s structure. The “overworld” in that game feels soooo Metroid-y at times

 

[Mr Doggo]

This is how we convince the Zelda traditionalists who were burned by BotW/TotK to buy MP2 remastered when it comes! It needs it

there probably arent that many.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Nintendo: let’s kill traditional Zelda with BotW. Let’s make them hungry for traditional Zelda. Turn Metroid Prime 4 into traditional Zelda and watch sales take off.

Nintendo thinking 5 steps ahead.

 

[Phendrift]

Nintendo: let’s kill traditional Zelda with BotW. Let’s make them hungry for traditional Zelda. Turn Metroid Prime 4 into traditional Zelda and watch sales take off.

Nintendo thinking 5 steps ahead.

I know this is a joke, but there’s actually something to be said for Metroid taking up that mantle without actually having to change much.

Like the number one gameplay/structure complaint that BotW & TotK haters have compared to the old Zelda games is the lack of item based progression/dungeon items I feel, which is like… something Metroid has always done better than Zelda in the first place lol. Like the entire series is built off of that sense of progression in a way that Zelda never was.

 

[carbonaxiom]

Dont compare HK to Dread please. I think HK was incredibly dragged out and slow, that's the opposite of what i want for 2d metroid.

Dread really could have used a few extra hours, from 10 to maybe 15 (in any case the 2d metroid games have been continuously getting larger, bit by bit) but i certainly dont want a game that is as annoying large as HK.

I think 2d Metroid is good enough iterating on what previosu entries did, its fine. MP4 on the other hand...

I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.

The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.

Now, I don't think map size is necessarily what causes games to feel bloated. What does make a game feel that way is when it has too much filler content added in just for the sake of padding out a game. What counts as "filler" content is a bit subjective, but games with RPG mechanics have a number of examples, ranging from too many meaningless NPCs to too many meaningless quests, and I'd argue it's those things that make Hollow Knight feel dragged out, more so than just the size and scale of the game.

Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.

 

[Phendrift]

I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.

The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.

Now, I don't think map size is necessarily what causes games to feel bloated. What does make a game feel that way is when it has too much filler content added in just for the sake of padding out a game. What counts as "filler" content is a bit subjective, but games with RPG mechanics have a number of examples, ranging from too many meaningless NPCs to too many meaningless quests, and I'd argue it's those things that make Hollow Knight feel dragged out, more so than just the size and scale of the game.

Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.

One of my biggest wants for the series is optional bosses. By far one of the best aspects of Metroid for me is going for that 100% completion and getting all of those expansions.

Even finding one of the plenty missile expansions is satisfying, but I always think back to how neat it was to find the beam combos in Prime 1 & 2. Completely optional unique weapons. Imagine if they went even further and had those guarded by a unique, optional boss. They could even hide a superboss that’s designed at a difficulty level for players with 100% of Samus’ arsenal

 

[Phendrift]

I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.

The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.

Now, I don't think map size is necessarily what causes games to feel bloated. What does make a game feel that way is when it has too much filler content added in just for the sake of padding out a game. What counts as "filler" content is a bit subjective, but games with RPG mechanics have a number of examples, ranging from too many meaningless NPCs to too many meaningless quests, and I'd argue it's those things that make Hollow Knight feel dragged out, more so than just the size and scale of the game.

Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.

One of my biggest wants for the series is optional bosses. By far one of the best aspects of Metroid for me is going for that 100% completion and getting all of those expansions.

Even finding one of the plenty missile expansions is satisfying, but I always think back to how neat it was to find the beam combos in Prime 1 & 2. Completely optional unique weapons. Imagine if they went even further and had those guarded by a unique, optional boss. They could even hide a superboss that’s designed at a difficulty level for players with 100% of Samus’ arsenal

 

[Koren Lesthe]

I really regret the massive lack of communication about the game aside for "Everything's going fine, don't you worry" and job listings.

Getting massively tired of waiting every Nintendo Direct for at least hearing Samus fart in her suit. In 6 years, we had nothing aside for an artwork from Retro Studio's website and a temp logo of the original version of the game.

 

[SmolSam]

I really regret the massive lack of communication about the game aside for "Everything's going fine, don't you worry" and job listings.

Getting massively tired of waiting every Nintendo Direct for at least hearing Samus fart in her suit. In 6 years, we had nothing aside for an artwork from Retro Studio's website and a temp logo of the original version of the game.

yeah, and I don't think we'll see anything new until the remasters of 2 and 3 are out

 

[Mr Doggo]

I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.

Oh. My bad lol!

The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.

Yes i strongly agree! Usually when you say snappier movement some metroid fans already imagine "HE WANTS MP4 TO BE DOOM" but i think superior gunplay and movement will be vital for MP4's success.

Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.

Also agree. I really really want optional stuff in mp4.

Areas and missions and bosses and power ups.

 

[TreIII]

I guess time travel is a common sci-fi theme that might be addressed in a future game. Although I wouldn't want this franchise to become a "Zelda" with split timelines.

I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do its own thing.

And this has been my attitude for a while, too.

Maybe the answer is splitting the timeline. Or maybe you send Samus off to some far off corner of the galaxy and we focus on the likes of the Kriken as a new threat. Or perhaps you raise up someone like Sylux enough so that not only he gives Samus a decent ongoing co-star (at last!), eventually, he can becomes someone who can lead his own (DLC?) campaigns, and then there's less "worry" about things Samus should or shouldn't be doing, at whatever point in time, because Sylux is taking care of them. Then the two meet up again at whatever time is feasible, and it's like "they never left".

In other words, I could think of worse things than giving Samus her own "Wario-like" figure.

 

[Marce-chan]

furthermore we all know sylux is gay

Finally stories about badass gays. Everyone is sick of stories about gays suffering, sad gays, etc. We need more stories about gays shooting guns, gays robbing banks, etc.

(It's an adaptation of a Brazilian meme, "finalmente histórias de gays trambiqueiras")

OK but hear me out.

Metroid Prime 4's intro. But theres a few Blade Runner Homages.

Metroid is already heavily inspired by another Ridley Scott franchise, Alien, and dare i say that even in the most recent game (Dread) i feel like there are a few things that look quite similar to a few Prometheus parts.
So i think it would look quite interesting if the game's opening had a few shots that paid homage to BR. Why? It looks cool.

That eye reminded me of that scene of Banana Fish of Ash's eye reflecting Eiji jumping with a rod.

the contracts are over,all the freelancer concept artists are leaving the project,we in the endgame now

https://www.linkedin.com/in/mehmetdorukerdem/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dofresh/

Should we trust the process???

Isn't concept art the first thing you do when creating a game? I don't know if it's a good sign that the concept artists have finished their work recently...

A lot of this is made mid dev since enemies, characters, scenarios and etc are only added after a while.
There's concept art made after the stuff is done in the game even, like the art book from TotK having concept art that's basically adapted screenshots.

Then it was a very short development time, because they both started working in 2022... I don't want to think the worst but

Those probably aren't the ones the did the pre-production concept art stuff. Don't worry, there's no way the game started this late lol.
I don't see the game releasing later than holiday 2024 tbh.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Maybe the answer is splitting the timeline

The answer is not giving a shit about the timeline. It doesn't add anything of note to the game and hand wringing over it can only ever hold things back.

Also can we not on the whole 'hey, maybe they should make a bunch of Metroid games not starring one of the few prominent women Nintendo actually has in a lead role?'

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Literally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.

Dread's story is totally nonsensical as a sequel to Fusion and no one cared because these games have had 5 minutes of story each.

(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Literally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.

Tanabe does for some completely insane reason. Sylux got to be a post final boss tease twice now, in prime 3 where his ship was following Samus, and then again when they stole a Metroid egg or some nonsense at the end of federation force and is likely going to be a main villain in Tanabes vision of the upcoming prime game(s?).

 

[Dark Cloud]

Literally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.

Dread's story is totally nonsensical as a sequel to Fusion and no one cared because these games have had 5 minutes of story each.

(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)

Ugh Tanabe clearly cares about Sylux

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Tanabe does for some completely insane reason. Sylux got to be a post final boss tease twice now, in prime 3 where his ship was following Samus, and then again when they stole a Metroid egg or some nonsense at the end of federation force and is likely going to be a main villain in Tanabes vision of the upcoming prime game(s?).

Federation Force came out 7 years ago and is probably the biggest failure in Nintendo's recent software history other than Codename Steam, I'm sure he's had time to reconsider.

Doing Metroid revival....... Again.... With a very humanoid rival.... Again... Would be extremely dull.

Maybe it will happen as these games are generally poorly written, but come on, lol.

Sylux's design and aura just is really boring compared to Dark Samus and SA-X as well.

Meanwhile, Metroid revival attempts have been core parts of the plots of

Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Other M
Metroid Dread

Come on.

No more Metroid revivals or Metroid breeding.

All the Metroids are dead other than Samus.

We move on.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Federation Force came out 7 years ago and is probably the biggest failure in Nintendo's recent software history other than Codename Steam, I'm sure he's had time to reconsider.

Doing Metroid revival....... Again.... With a very humanoid rival.... Again... Would be extremely dull.

Maybe it will happen as these games are generally poorly written, but come on, lol.

Sylux's design and aura just is really boring compared to Dark Samus and SA-X as well.

Meanwhile, Metroid revival attempts have been core parts of the plots of

Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Other M
Metroid Dread

Come on.

Just so it's clear, I'm not secretly tanabe. You don't need to explain to me that Sylux is shit, I already know.

That doesn't matter, because Tanabe is completely convinced otherwise, and there is zero chance that he had the whole Metroid egg thing happen for no reason.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Just so it's clear, I'm not secretly tanabe. You don't need to explain to me that Sylux is shit, I already know.

That doesn't matter, because Tanabe is completely convinced otherwise, and there is zero chance that he had the whole Metroid egg thing happen for no reason.

I'm sure he planned this very boring plot at the time of Federation Force's release.

But I would be surprised if he stuck with this plot now.

Doing a "I will use the Metroids for my own purposes!" plot immediately after Dread released would just be shockingly bad communication and coordination between Sakamoto and Tanabe... Unless they think literally every game in the series should have this plot, lol.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

I'm sure he planned this very boring plot at the time of Federation Force's release.

But I would be surprised if he stuck with this plot now.

Doing a "I will use the Metroids for my own purposes!" plot immediately after Dread released would just be shockingly bad communication and coordination between Sakamoto and Tanabe.

I don't know why you're convinced of anything based on less than nothing. Prime 4 even started development before Dread did. The only reason it didn't even come out first, is that the development was troubled. There's literally no reason he would even take that game in to any level of consideration for the story he wants to tell. The Metroid games on Sakamotos side sure as heck don't take prime in to consideration on any level.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

I don't know why you're convinced of anything based on less than nothing. Prime 4 even started development before Dread did. The only reason it didn't even come out first, is that the development was troubled. There's literally no reason he would even take that game in to any level of consideration for the story he wants to tell. The Metroid games on Sakamotos side sure as heck don't take prime in to consideration on any level.

I'm saying that Sakamoto writing a "I will create an army of Metroids!" plot for his game while Tanabe had already written a "I will create an army of Metroids" plot for his game would be very weird.

2D and 3D Metroid probably have extreme fanbase crossover so you should make sure to differentiate the stories between the two.

 

[Aurc]

(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)

Fusion and Other M have little to nothing in common, though. Both games take place on a space station, feature Adam in a prominent role, and include the plot point about the Federation breeding Metroids, but that'd be like saying Super Metroid is a remake of the NES OG, because you visit Zebes and kill Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain across both games.

 

[Zeal543]

I think people need to stop expecting/hoping for good plots out of metroid games (and zelda as well for that matter), the best you can get is some decent lore and worldbuilding with the prime games. Nintendo's classic games aren't built for that, only xenoblade (and maybe FE I don't play that series) have stories worth a crap (mother 3 was pretty good too).

 

[SmolSam]

and maybe FE

lol no, as someone who played some FE games, the story is always "evil dragon who wants to destroy the world"

 

[Aurc]

I think people need to stop expecting/hoping for good plots out of metroid games (and zelda as well for that matter), the best you can get is some decent lore and worldbuilding with the prime games. Nintendo's classic games aren't built for that, only xenoblade (and maybe FE I don't play that series) have stories worth a crap (mother 3 was pretty good too).

Yeah, it's mostly the lore and worldbuilding I'm about. Dread's asspull evil Darth Vader dad wasn't exactly a stroke of narrative brilliance... lol. He looked awesome though, so it's forgiven.

 

[Marce-chan]

Tbh I really like the story and plot twists of Fusion and Dread.

I think Prime 4 will have some cinematic focus tbh, but in a way that will please both veteran Metroid fans and attract new people.

 

[SmolSam]

I wish Metroid had a "Hyrule Historia" kind of book that included an official timeline with all the games and explained in detail Samus's past and everything she went through... but we'll never get that.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

Fusion and Other M have little to nothing in common, though. Both games take place on a space station, feature Adam in a prominent role, and include the plot point about the Federation breeding Metroids, but that'd be like saying Super Metroid is a remake of the NES OG, because you visit Zebes and kill Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain across both games.

Yes, I do view the plots of:

"The relationship between Samus and Adam is explored in a linear action game in which the game player is told where to go by Adam. This game takes place in a spaceship that Samus' employer is using to breed bioweapons. Specifically Metroids, Ridley clones, Nightmare, and a giant evolved Metroid."

As very similar

(Super Metroid is also a remake of Metroid 1 on hardware that could actually handle the vision of the game. This was fairly common in the early days after 1985. Super Castlevania IV is essentially a remake of Castlevania 1)

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Literally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.

Dread's story is totally nonsensical as a sequel to Fusion and no one cared because these games have had 5 minutes of story each.

(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)

Other M and Fusion are wildly different games.

 

[Zeal543]

Fusion and Other M have little to nothing in common, though. Both games take place on a space station, feature Adam in a prominent role, and include the plot point about the Federation breeding Metroids, but that'd be like saying Super Metroid is a remake of the NES OG, because you visit Zebes and kill Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain across both games.

Super is kind of a rebooted NEStroid in terms of story

 

[Metroid]

Yes, I do view the plots of:

"The relationship between Samus and Adam is explored in a linear action game in which the game player is told where to go by Adam. This game takes place in a spaceship that Samus' employer is using to breed bioweapons. Specifically Metroids, Ridley clones, Nightmare, and a giant evolved Metroid."

As very similar

(Super Metroid is also a remake of Metroid 1 on hardware that could actually handle the vision of the game. This was fairly common in the early days after 1985. Super Castlevania IV is essentially a remake of Castlevania 1)

The game that retreads a lot of ground mechaniclly but not storywise and acts as a sequel to the sequel is a remake but the full on, actual remake, is only essentially a remake.

Yes I'm being pedantic.