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It’s a good sign
Yup. If nothing else, it means their chunk of the game they were needed for is complete, and progress is being made.
It’s a good sign
I missed this open world discussion the first time around, but if Metroid Prime 4 were to go for it, then Elden Ring would be the correct model to take, just as you described.That's a true open world, but true open worlds are actually quite rare. Games like BOTW/TOTK where you can literally go anywhere after leaving the tutorial are few and far between, and I would argue that most games people call open world don't match up to that.
What I mean (and I think most people?) when we say open world metroidvania is more like... a game that looks and feels more like an open world, but still has the metroidvania-style ability locks and gating. The first thing that came to mind as a comparison is Elden Ring. Elden Ring is very definitely open world, but it's a more restricted open world: You can go to like 75% of the map right off the bat, but there are plenty of areas that are closed off until later: You can't enter Lleyndell until you beat two main bosses, for example. Or, you can't access the Haligtree (which is a pretty large area with a major boss in it) unless you gather two medallion halves and use them in the right place, that's literally the only way to get there. And another entire dungeon-type area is gated by story progress late in the game.
What I'm imagining is that kind of world design, but Metroid-ified and the limitations expanded a bit, and instead of being gated by bosses or keys or NPC quests everything is gated by Samus' abilities instead. For example, maybe you can explore like 50%-60% of the world immediately, but a lot of areas are still gated until you have the right ability or suit or something. So it's not true open world, but the large open areas that you can go to often have the feel of being open world even if they're more limited. Scatter the whole world with the usual missile expansions, health upgrades, and so on (many of which require certain abilities to get as usual) and boom, there you go.
I like God of War 2018 a lot, but its definitely a linear game for the most part. An area like The Lake of Nine would be more or less the same structure the Prime games had, especially Prime 2 with the Temple Grounds serving as a hub of sorts for the other regions.If Prime 4 is to be more open, I'd prefer it model itself off of The Lake of Nine from God of War 2018. A big, explorable central area that branches off in different directions into self contained "levels" that would have the more classic Metroid formula. The Lake also transforms in a way, via the World Serpent moving and thus changing the water level which in turn opens up even more areas. Something similar could work with Metroid I think. But a full on open world is not something I want, or even think would work at all unless you want to make Metroid not a Metroid game.
I like God of War 2018 a lot, but its definitely a linear game for the most part. An area like The Lake of Nine would be more or less the same structure the Prime games had, especially Prime 2 with the Temple Grounds serving as a hub of sorts for the other regions.
Having read through the previous discussion about open worlds, I'm pretty sure most people here haven't played Elden Ring, and I really recommend it if you haven't. As I said in my other post, it's an open world game that feels like a Metroidvania a lot of the time, and its world structure solved a lot of the problems people have with open world games in general. Of course, it's also a FromSoftware game, so it's very hard, although I also think it's the most accessible game they've made. I'm convinced anyone can beat it with enough patience. And there's definitely a lot of ideas Metroid could take from it.
With that said, Prime 4 will likely just be a larger version of previous Prime games, which would definitely put it more in line with the map structure in God of War. And that's not bad either, since the biggest criticisms I have of the older Prime games are the movement and combat, which were fine when the games were released, but haven't aged that well. Again, I'm hoping they take some cues from the recent Doom games in that regard.
I'd prefer one planet, but I wouldn't mind multiple landing sites if they wanted to have a functioning gunshipWould you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes
prime 3 is my fav of the trilogy and even still id prefer it to be just one MOON actually.Would you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes
Multiple planets, but every one of them is as big and varied as Tallon IV.Would you guys prefer the multiple planets design like in prime 3 or the interconnected world of prime 1 and 2, I personally didn't like the multiple planets design and its one of the reasons prime 3 is ny least favorite of the trilogy, that and how it feels less isolate than the others with all the npcs cutscenes
It's definitely harder to decide whether Dark Souls 2 and 3 are Metroidvanias or not, since their level designs are less interconnected, but Dark Souls 1 definitely is one. The difference is that the gates in the map design there are opened through items, while in Metroid they're usually opened via power-ups.I have played Elden Ring, and I certainly don't want it to be like that. I think it's an overrated game, though I realize I'm in the minority in that. I also don't agree that the Dark Souls games are 3D Metroidvanias, especially not 2 and 3. I do think there is some Metroid DNA in there for sure, particularly the NES Metroid, and certainly I can feel it's influence from the Prime series in terms of atmosphere and world building. But, to me, the essence of Metroid(vania) design is in item gating, and there is none of that in the Soulsbornekieroring games.
The Temple Grounds is not an apt comparison to the Lake of Nine because the you are still forced to make your way through the Temple grounds in a linear matter, bit by bit inbetween going to the larger levels. There is a lot more wiggle room in the Lake of Nine to go off on side adventures, and even take on larger quests in whole new areas.
Something like this could work. I don't think something of such a scale would automatically imply design bloat, but it would definitely mean a lot more work to make enough unique areas and enough content to fill it all. That could mean adding in a lot more bosses, including optional ones, than is typical for Metroid, and also more items and power-ups. With power-ups in particular, I've always thought Metroid games could use more of them, although I'm not sure what they would be or how to fit them all in without making a mess of the user interface.Multiple planets, but every one of them is as big and varied as Tallon IV.
I know that's never happening and I know many people would call such a design bloated. But I can dream.
Compromise: it's one in-depth world, but you zap between the past, present and future of it.Multiple planets, but every one of them is as big and varied as Tallon IV.
I know that's never happening and I know many people would call such a design bloated. But I can dream.
Dont compare HK to Dread please. I think HK was incredibly dragged out and slow, that's the opposite of what i want for 2d metroid.If you compare the maps of Dread to Hollow Knight, both are roughly similar in size, and yet Hollow Knight is a significantly longer game. Part of that is due to Hollow Knight having time consuming RPG mechanics, but another big reason for the difference is that you move much slower when compared to Dread, even after getting the movement and dash charms. Because of this, Dread's world ends up feeling smaller than it really is.
I guess time travel is a common sci-fi theme that might be addressed in a future game. Although I wouldn't want this franchise to become a "Zelda" with split timelines.Compromise: it's one in-depth world, but you zap between the past, present and future of it.
If they seriously stick with the "time travel" concept they spoke of a long while ago, that's the main way I could see them being able to have "multiple worlds" again.
I guess time travel is a common sci-fi theme that might be addressed in a future game. Although I wouldn't want this franchise to become a "Zelda" with split timelines.
not like it changes anything as well.I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do it's own thing.
I disagree, being between m1 and 2 means the prime games can be whatever they want. I would like to see prime split from sakamoto's constant plot screw ups, however.I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do it's own thing.
Yeah, Prime 2 always felt like the Metroid game that leaned in the most into Zelda structure. Perhaps a lot of that comes down to Samus straight up collecting items called “temple keys” to progress lol. But yeah, the separation of each area and how you mostly explore one at a time instead of zig zagging across the map like typical Metroid definitely made them feel like massive dungeonsPrime 2 also does this, except imagine each area being a super insane Zelda dungeon.
there probably arent that many.This is how we convince the Zelda traditionalists who were burned by BotW/TotK to buy MP2 remastered when it comes! It needs it
I know this is a joke, but there’s actually something to be said for Metroid taking up that mantle without actually having to change much.Nintendo: let’s kill traditional Zelda with BotW. Let’s make them hungry for traditional Zelda. Turn Metroid Prime 4 into traditional Zelda and watch sales take off.
Nintendo thinking 5 steps ahead.
I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.Dont compare HK to Dread please. I think HK was incredibly dragged out and slow, that's the opposite of what i want for 2d metroid.
Dread really could have used a few extra hours, from 10 to maybe 15 (in any case the 2d metroid games have been continuously getting larger, bit by bit) but i certainly dont want a game that is as annoying large as HK.
I think 2d Metroid is good enough iterating on what previosu entries did, its fine. MP4 on the other hand...
One of my biggest wants for the series is optional bosses. By far one of the best aspects of Metroid for me is going for that 100% completion and getting all of those expansions.I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.
The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.
Now, I don't think map size is necessarily what causes games to feel bloated. What does make a game feel that way is when it has too much filler content added in just for the sake of padding out a game. What counts as "filler" content is a bit subjective, but games with RPG mechanics have a number of examples, ranging from too many meaningless NPCs to too many meaningless quests, and I'd argue it's those things that make Hollow Knight feel dragged out, more so than just the size and scale of the game.
Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.
One of my biggest wants for the series is optional bosses. By far one of the best aspects of Metroid for me is going for that 100% completion and getting all of those expansions.I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.
The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.
Now, I don't think map size is necessarily what causes games to feel bloated. What does make a game feel that way is when it has too much filler content added in just for the sake of padding out a game. What counts as "filler" content is a bit subjective, but games with RPG mechanics have a number of examples, ranging from too many meaningless NPCs to too many meaningless quests, and I'd argue it's those things that make Hollow Knight feel dragged out, more so than just the size and scale of the game.
Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.
yeah, and I don't think we'll see anything new until the remasters of 2 and 3 are outI really regret the massive lack of communication about the game aside for "Everything's going fine, don't you worry" and job listings.
Getting massively tired of waiting every Nintendo Direct for at least hearing Samus fart in her suit. In 6 years, we had nothing aside for an artwork from Retro Studio's website and a temp logo of the original version of the game.
Oh. My bad lol!I think you're generally agreeing with what I said, but I might not have stated my point in a clear enough manner.
Yes i strongly agree! Usually when you say snappier movement some metroid fans already imagine "HE WANTS MP4 TO BE DOOM" but i think superior gunplay and movement will be vital for MP4's success.The comparison was to illustrate that Hollow Knight feels big because it plays in a very slow manner. I want Metroid Prime 4, and all Metroid games, to feel big despite how fast the gameplay is, especially since I want Prime 4's movement to be more sped up and snappy compared to earlier Prime games. In order to do that, the world probably needs to be bigger than other comparable games in the genre to compensate for that.
Also agree. I really really want optional stuff in mp4.Since Metroid is more action oriented, but also focused on exploration and atmosphere (a unique combination that I wish more games tried to copy, instead of going down the RPG side of things), extra content to fill out a large world should probably be in the form of more unique boss battles and more powerups. Dread's boss battles were amazing, the best in the series in my opinion. I hope we get more of that with Prime 4.
I guess time travel is a common sci-fi theme that might be addressed in a future game. Although I wouldn't want this franchise to become a "Zelda" with split timelines.
And this has been my attitude for a while, too.I used to feel the same, but I kinda want Prime to be a separate timeline because eternally existing between M1 and M2 really limits what it can do. And even if future Prime games were to take place elsewhere in the timeline they still will have to tiptoe around whatever Sakamoto is doing. Prime should be liberated so it can do its own thing.
Finally stories about badass gays. Everyone is sick of stories about gays suffering, sad gays, etc. We need more stories about gays shooting guns, gays robbing banks, etc.furthermore we all know sylux is gay
That eye reminded me of that scene of Banana Fish of Ash's eye reflecting Eiji jumping with a rod.OK but hear me out.
Metroid Prime 4's intro. But theres a few Blade Runner Homages.
Metroid is already heavily inspired by another Ridley Scott franchise, Alien, and dare i say that even in the most recent game (Dread) i feel like there are a few things that look quite similar to a few Prometheus parts.
So i think it would look quite interesting if the game's opening had a few shots that paid homage to BR. Why? It looks cool.
Should we trust the process???the contracts are over,all the freelancer concept artists are leaving the project,we in the endgame now
A lot of this is made mid dev since enemies, characters, scenarios and etc are only added after a while.Isn't concept art the first thing you do when creating a game? I don't know if it's a good sign that the concept artists have finished their work recently...
Those probably aren't the ones the did the pre-production concept art stuff. Don't worry, there's no way the game started this late lol.Then it was a very short development time, because they both started working in 2022... I don't want to think the worst but
Maybe the answer is splitting the timeline
Literally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.
Ugh Tanabe clearly cares about SyluxLiterally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.
Dread's story is totally nonsensical as a sequel to Fusion and no one cared because these games have had 5 minutes of story each.
(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)
Tanabe does for some completely insane reason. Sylux got to be a post final boss tease twice now, in prime 3 where his ship was following Samus, and then again when they stole a Metroid egg or some nonsense at the end of federation force and is likely going to be a main villain in Tanabes vision of the upcoming prime game(s?).
Federation Force came out 7 years ago and is probably the biggest failure in Nintendo's recent software history other than Codename Steam, I'm sure he's had time to reconsider.
Doing Metroid revival....... Again.... With a very humanoid rival.... Again... Would be extremely dull.
Maybe it will happen as these games are generally poorly written, but come on, lol.
Sylux's design and aura just is really boring compared to Dark Samus and SA-X as well.
Meanwhile, Metroid revival attempts have been core parts of the plots of
Super Metroid
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Other M
Metroid Dread
Come on.
Just so it's clear, I'm not secretly tanabe. You don't need to explain to me that Sylux is shit, I already know.
That doesn't matter, because Tanabe is completely convinced otherwise, and there is zero chance that he had the whole Metroid egg thing happen for no reason.
I'm sure he planned this very boring plot at the time of Federation Force's release.
But I would be surprised if he stuck with this plot now.
Doing a "I will use the Metroids for my own purposes!" plot immediately after Dread released would just be shockingly bad communication and coordination between Sakamoto and Tanabe.
I don't know why you're convinced of anything based on less than nothing. Prime 4 even started development before Dread did. The only reason it didn't even come out first, is that the development was troubled. There's literally no reason he would even take that game in to any level of consideration for the story he wants to tell. The Metroid games on Sakamotos side sure as heck don't take prime in to consideration on any level.
Fusion and Other M have little to nothing in common, though. Both games take place on a space station, feature Adam in a prominent role, and include the plot point about the Federation breeding Metroids, but that'd be like saying Super Metroid is a remake of the NES OG, because you visit Zebes and kill Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain across both games.(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)
lol no, as someone who played some FE games, the story is always "evil dragon who wants to destroy the world"and maybe FE
Yeah, it's mostly the lore and worldbuilding I'm about. Dread's asspull evil Darth Vader dad wasn't exactly a stroke of narrative brilliance... lol. He looked awesome though, so it's forgiven.I think people need to stop expecting/hoping for good plots out of metroid games (and zelda as well for that matter), the best you can get is some decent lore and worldbuilding with the prime games. Nintendo's classic games aren't built for that, only xenoblade (and maybe FE I don't play that series) have stories worth a crap (mother 3 was pretty good too).
Fusion and Other M have little to nothing in common, though. Both games take place on a space station, feature Adam in a prominent role, and include the plot point about the Federation breeding Metroids, but that'd be like saying Super Metroid is a remake of the NES OG, because you visit Zebes and kill Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain across both games.
Literally no one gives a shit about Sylux, I doubt he's even in this game, lol.
Dread's story is totally nonsensical as a sequel to Fusion and no one cared because these games have had 5 minutes of story each.
(Other M is easily the worst story offender not only because of the quality of the story, but because the game is pretty obviously a remake of Metroid Fusion, but both games are considered canon for some reason even though they cover the same ground so exactly that it becomes very stupid)
Super is kind of a rebooted NEStroid in terms of storyFusion and Other M have little to nothing in common, though. Both games take place on a space station, feature Adam in a prominent role, and include the plot point about the Federation breeding Metroids, but that'd be like saying Super Metroid is a remake of the NES OG, because you visit Zebes and kill Kraid, Ridley, and Mother Brain across both games.
The game that retreads a lot of ground mechaniclly but not storywise and acts as a sequel to the sequel is a remake but the full on, actual remake, is only essentially a remake.Yes, I do view the plots of:
"The relationship between Samus and Adam is explored in a linear action game in which the game player is told where to go by Adam. This game takes place in a spaceship that Samus' employer is using to breed bioweapons. Specifically Metroids, Ridley clones, Nightmare, and a giant evolved Metroid."
As very similar
(Super Metroid is also a remake of Metroid 1 on hardware that could actually handle the vision of the game. This was fairly common in the early days after 1985. Super Castlevania IV is essentially a remake of Castlevania 1)