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Pre-Release Metroid Prime 4: Pre-Release Discussion Thread

stodesign12 said:
I think the music of Prime 4 is going to be closer to Samus Returns rather than the previous Prime games (or Dread btw). This means modern synths, modern orchestral libraries, many more ambient tracks... but catchy melodies. I hope Kenji Yamamoto is involved.
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BozPaggs said:
Body = ready
Process = trusted
Pants = brown
PRIME = TIME
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I know I shared this elsewhere on Famiboards but I can't remember if I shared it here. Please forgive me for repeating myself:

On the launch date of Metroid Prime in 2002, I called my friend on the phone, shouted "IT'S PRIME TIME" and immediately hung up before he could say anything. A couple of minutes later, he messaged me on AIM, saying "Joe, you suck."
 
So Brazil confirmed there will be more ports/remasters in the upcoming Direct, and I think there's a pretty good chance Nintendo will do like they did with Pikmin and release Metroid Prime 2+3 ports a few months leading up to Prime 4.

I hope they do, haven't played those yet.
 
Leo said:
So Brazil confirmed there will be more ports/remasters in the upcoming Direct, and I think there's a pretty good chance Nintendo will do like they did with Pikmin and release Metroid Prime 2+3 ports a few months leading up to Prime 4.

I hope they do, haven't played those yet.
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I don't think they'll do this, it risks overloading the potential audience before the main event arrives. Metroid has a ton of games on the system already, while Pikmin only had one around the time the other two got ported.
 
Magic-Man said:
I don't think they'll do this, it risks overloading the potential audience before the main event arrives. Metroid has a ton of games on the system already, while Pikmin only had one around the time the other two got ported.
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Yeah, I'm 50/50 on it. Nintendo didn't care about getting people caught up for Dread, so not sure why everyone thinks Prime 2 and 3 are a sure thing.

Of course, rumors for Prime 2 and 3 go back years, and last year Grub said Prime 2 was happening "soonish." We'll see what happens.
 
It’s hard to call what Nintendo would do. It depends if they got Prime 2 and 3 ready, which they should. Then how far they want to space it. Is Prime 4 a cross gen game or not?

We could get 2,3, and 4 in the same direct. I could see us getting only 2 and 3 with 4 coming with the Switch 2 reveal.
 
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TheSpaceBetween said:
Yeah, I'm 50/50 on it. Nintendo didn't care about getting people caught up for Dread, so not sure why everyone thinks Prime 2 and 3 are a sure thing.

Of course, rumors for Prime 2 and 3 go back years, and last year Grub said Prime 2 was happening "soonish." We'll see what happens.
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If they shadow drop 2+3 on the day of the Direct (like they did with Pikmin) and announce Prime 4 for holidays 2024, it would be more than enough space and actually serve to build hype and get people talking about the series.

We've been obsessed by Prime 4 since it was announce, but the average Joe probably doesn't even remember it exists since it hasn't been talked about since forever. They need to heat things up a bit leading up to the release, and 2+3 would be perfect for that.
 
I am certain that Metroid Prime 4 is purely a Switch 1 game and not some sort of cross-gen release. It will be backwards compatible (maybe with a next-gen patch too) but it'll be a Switch 1 game first and foremost.
I think it's one of Nintendo's holiday games and will be revealed in the June direct.
I don't think it'll launch with the Switch 2 because I don't think it's an appropriate launch title for a wholly new console and will suffer from competition around that time.
 
Lugia667 said:
It is kind of crazy that they are still around with all the Xbox news lately tbh
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this is gonna come off as corporate cheerleading, but I don't think Nintendo gets enough credit for believing in studios like Retro and NST and keeping them around

It's clear that at just about any other major publisher, those studios would have been shut down ages ago for a short-term "look, the line technically went up this quarter" bump
 
Lugia667 said:
It is kind of crazy that they are still around with all the Xbox news lately tbh
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Two reasons

1. Nintendo owns Retro and likes the Idea of having an American based developers
2. donkey Kong tropical freeze, despite the controversy of a 60 dollar price point, most likely helped Retro.
 
Joe said:
I don't understand. What makes you think that?
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It's been such an expensive debacle that it really needs to cast the net as wide as it can go, that's all. Needs to maximise the potential of being a launch window game as well as leveraging the massive Switch userbase. One or the other won't quite cut it - it's not an obvious tentpole release that will prop up a launch, and also the kind of audience that would play Metroid games has mostly moved on from Switch ... but together it seems right.
I think it's an existential release for Retro too. Needs to do bank, or at least just be a really great game. My hunch, anyway.
 
What do you think the likelihood of these possibilities and what would you think of them.

1. Combat and structure similar to Doom Eternal

2. More toned down Metroidvania elements like God of War 2018.

3. Souls like elements where Samus has XP to level up abilities and loses the XP upon death outside of corpse runs

4. Being a roguelite like Returnal

5. Having PvP multiplayer

6. PvP but players competing over some metric instead of directly engaging each other

7. Co-op

8. Asymmetric multiplayer

9. Sustained DLC support

10. Open world elements
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
What do you think the likelihood of these possibilities and what would you think of them.

1. Combat and structure similar to Doom Eternal

2. More toned down Metroidvania elements like God of War 2018.

3. Souls like elements where Samus has XP to level up abilities and loses the XP upon death outside of corpse runs

4. Being a roguelite like Returnal

5. Having PvP multiplayer

6. PvP but players competing over some metric instead of directly engaging each other

7. Co-op

8. Asymmetric multiplayer

9. Sustained DLC support

10. Open world elements
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1. 50% (chance of happening)
2. 10%
3. 20%
4. 0%
5. 1%
6. 5%
8. 5%
9. 30%
10. 90%

I think open world elements are a given. Likely several smaller open world zones connected to each other.
They might take some inspiration from Doom Enternal with the platforming and some combat intricacies. But I doubt they turn Prime 4 into a straight action game with combat as fast as Doom.
I don't think multiplayer is likely. Same with roguelime mechanics. XP MIGHT happen since the mechanic is so prevalent in every other Western AAA game, but I hope Retro has the design sensibilities to not include it.
DLC is an unlikely possibility. Probably an expansion episode if we get anything at all.
 
Ecliptor said:
If 2 and 3 are full remasters like 1, getting them both and 4 in the same year would be asking a lot of money from Metroid fans or people looking to become fans.
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Doubt they would be, I was referring to quick ports just like Pikmin 1+2
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
What do you think the likelihood of these possibilities and what would you think of them.

1. Combat and structure similar to Doom Eternal

2. More toned down Metroidvania elements like God of War 2018.

3. Souls like elements where Samus has XP to level up abilities and loses the XP upon death outside of corpse runs

4. Being a roguelite like Returnal

5. Having PvP multiplayer

6. PvP but players competing over some metric instead of directly engaging each other

7. Co-op

8. Asymmetric multiplayer

9. Sustained DLC support

10. Open world elements
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Pretty much none of them. There will probably be some more openness, but definitely not a full on open world. It's going to be Metroid Prime ass Metroid Prime game.
 
Djehuty said:
I’m personally of the opinion it will be a different take on Metroid.

Trying to appeal to hardcore fans and a more mainstream audience.
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Back when the game was announced it said the game would be focusing on the isolation and exploration aspects of the original Metroid Prime. To me that sounds like a Tanabe initiative, one that would have likely carried over from Bandi to Retro. Could be wrong though of course, we'll see!
 
I think people misremember how good the Prime soundtracks were on average because the highs leave such an impression. The first one really was mostly strong throughout, with ambient material and generic noisy fight music kept to the very minor encounters and moments between areas. The sequels however are mostly things that sound like Phazon Mines, not Phendrana Drifts. You're living off of like, the Luminoth theme, the one Dark Samus encounter, and the kind of annoying Temple Grounds music for the whole first third of Echoes until you hit Torvus Bog and finally get something substantial to chew on. By Prime 3 the big trio of Bryyo Cliffside, SkyTown, and Rundas fight is practically all there is. Some of the best tracks in the series, yes, but aside from them you have a couple more pretty solid boss themes deep into the game, the title screen, and Pirate Homeworld is a decent remix of a Super Metroid track I guess (albeit far less memorable than the ones from the previous two games). They hit diminishing returns very quickly and very noticeably.

But yeah, regardless of how the game itself turns out, I expect to be just as disappointed by the Prime 4 soundtrack as I was the last few Metroids. I don't think I have faith in Nintendo's ability to put out good music anymore. They've bled a lot of their in-house talent (most of which hasn't even left the company, just stopped making music), but more than that they just don't use what they do have because someone high up got it in their head that ambient nothings are the future of game soundtracks. Even if they don't deliberately do Metroid of the Wild, we've had so many consecutive misses with Metroid that it seems silly to expect a hit at this point, they don't seem to be capable of successfully replacing Kenji Yamamoto. Retro doesn't even seem to be limited on who they can work with to just Nintendo staff, the game could be scored by Depeche Mode for all we know, but I just don't have any confidence at this point in the direction of any Nintendo game's soundtrack.

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
What do you think the likelihood of these possibilities and what would you think of them.

1. Combat and structure similar to Doom Eternal

2. More toned down Metroidvania elements like God of War 2018.

3. Souls like elements where Samus has XP to level up abilities and loses the XP upon death outside of corpse runs

4. Being a roguelite like Returnal

5. Having PvP multiplayer

6. PvP but players competing over some metric instead of directly engaging each other

7. Co-op

8. Asymmetric multiplayer

9. Sustained DLC support

10. Open world elements
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These all sound terrible and also completely unrealistic, except for 10, which feels at least plausible with how other Nintendo games have trended this gen. Still don't think it's that likely, but plausible.

Then again, Corruption tried to do all sorts of weird things to meet current trends...
 
Metroid prime 4 should be a Metroid prime 1 game but with much more interesting ways to interact with the world than 'use this kind of explosion on this kind of rock'. That's where the effort should have gone, not towards being open world.

It doesn't need to go all the way towards "Botw/totk but as a first person game', but it should at least be looking in that direction.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
Metroid prime 4 should be a Metroid prime 1 game but with much more interesting ways to interact with the world than 'use this kind of explosion on this kind of rock'. That's where the effort should have gone, not towards being open world.

It doesn't need to go all the way towards "Botw/totk but as a first person game', but it should at least be looking in that direction.
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This is ridiculously hard if you're doing a Metroidvania type game and also doesn't seem to work well at all with the visual style they focused on with Prime Remastered that seemed to focus on baked global illumination.
 
Stilt Village said:
I think people misremember how good the Prime soundtracks were on average because the highs leave such an impression. The first one really was mostly strong throughout, with ambient material and generic noisy fight music kept to the very minor encounters and moments between areas. The sequels however are mostly things that sound like Phazon Mines, not Phendrana Drifts. You're living off of like, the Luminoth theme, the one Dark Samus encounter, and the kind of annoying Temple Grounds music for the whole first third of Echoes until you hit Torvus Bog and finally get something substantial to chew on. By Prime 3 the big trio of Bryyo Cliffside, SkyTown, and Rundas fight is practically all there is. Some of the best tracks in the series, yes, but aside from them you have a couple more pretty solid boss themes deep into the game, the title screen, and Pirate Homeworld is a decent remix of a Super Metroid track I guess (albeit far less memorable than the ones from the previous two games). They hit diminishing returns very quickly and very noticeably.

But yeah, regardless of how the game itself turns out, I expect to be just as disappointed by the Prime 4 soundtrack as I was the last few Metroids. I don't think I have faith in Nintendo's ability to put out good music anymore. They've bled a lot of their in-house talent (most of which hasn't even left the company, just stopped making music), but more than that they just don't use what they do have because someone high up got it in their head that ambient nothings are the future of game soundtracks. Even if they don't deliberately do Metroid of the Wild, we've had so many consecutive misses with Metroid that it seems silly to expect a hit at this point, they don't seem to be capable of successfully replacing Kenji Yamamoto. Retro doesn't even seem to be limited on who they can work with to just Nintendo staff, the game could be scored by Depeche Mode for all we know, but I just don't have any confidence at this point in the direction of any Nintendo game's soundtrack.


These all sound terrible and also completely unrealistic, except for 10, which feels at least plausible with how other Nintendo games have trended this gen. Still don't think it's that likely, but plausible.

Then again, Corruption tried to do all sorts of weird things to meet current trends...
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I thought 2 and 3 had great soundtracks as well. Tracks like Sanctuary Fortress and Gandrayda's theme are up there with anything in Prime 1.
 
ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
This is ridiculously hard if you're doing a Metroidvania type game and also doesn't seem to work well at all with the visual style they focused on with Prime Remastered that seemed to focus on baked global illumination.
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Which part do you mean would be ridiculously hard? The idea of sequence breaking is practically the DNA of Metroid. Let there be clear intended solutions, but if people manage to find other ways to proceed great!

Metroid prime already even has the whole visor thing to highlight interactable objects and such
 
Linkstrikesback said:
Which part do you mean would be ridiculously hard? The idea of sequence breaking is practically the DNA of Metroid. Let there be clear intended solutions, but if people manage to find other ways to proceed great!

Metroid prime already even has the whole visor thing to highlight interactable objects and such
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Sequence breaking is how very very few people engage with these titles.
 
Metroid Prime 4 should be Metroid Prime but you can move around organically using the grappling hook, Doom Eternal-style.
 
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Ecliptor said:
If 2 and 3 are full remasters like 1, getting them both and 4 in the same year would be asking a lot of money from Metroid fans or people looking to become fans.
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Pretty much every rumor about 2 and 3 is that if they happen, they won't be on the same level as 1 Remastered. Probably more along the lines of Pikmin 1+2 (the old games running at a higher resolution with new controls rather than a complete asset replacement)
 
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ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Sequence breaking is how very very few people engage with these titles.
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... That didn't answer my question. I'm still not sure what you mean is 'hard' about designing a metroidvania with more interesting ways to interact with the world than 'block type a is blown up with weapon type a'. I was guessing you meant because it might make progression more nonlinear, but if it does that's a plus, not a minus.

Metroid prime 4 is a game releasing in 2024/5/6 and not twenty years ago, it shouldn't be designed like it's limited to hardware of a GameCube. Making Metroid prime but the rooms are bigger would be the shittiest outcome possible for a game that's taken so long to develop.
 
Linkstrikesback said:
... That didn't answer my question. I'm still not sure what you mean is 'hard' about designing a metroidvania with more interesting ways to interact with the world than 'block type a is blown up with weapon type a'. I was guessing you meant because it might make progression more nonlinear, but if it does that's a plus, not a minus.

Metroid prime 4 is a game releasing in 2024/5/6 and not twenty years ago, it shouldn't be designed like it's limited to hardware of a GameCube. Making Metroid prime but the rooms are bigger would be the shittiest outcome possible for a game that's taken so long to develop.
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I'm saying it's extremely hard to design a non-linear, progression based (with platforming upgrades) game with required platforming.

Tons of people will accidentally sequence break, get to a part where they require the double jump and they don't have the double jump and just get super lost and could give up.

I can't really think of a mainstream game with required platforming, non-linear levels, and platforming upgrades. This would seem to require pretty revolutionary game design.
 
As much as I hate to admit it, I am kinda with @Stilt Village on this one. I think the soundtrack will be better than Dread's at least, (Samus Returns' OST was pretty good IMO, when it was actually trying to work with the original Metroid II themes and ambience, or make new tracks, instead of leaning on Red Brinstar and Magmoor Caverns) but I am keeping my expectations low overall.

I love Echoes but it does have an even mix of hits and misses, and Corruption had some great pieces (Ironically, my favorite track there was the super understated Meeting Room/Pirate Homeworld Stealth ambience) but I feel like the shift towards Halo-esque orchestra and choir just made a lot of it sound really generic. I think 4 will probably be stronger than that was, but I'm not expecting Prime 1's level of all-around hits.
 
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I could see non-linearity in this game if most to all of the upgrades were combat upgrades.

Or if each area was non-linear, but there was linear progression from one area to another with a platforming upgrade at the end of each area.

In general, I expect this game to mostly be similar to Metroid Prime 1 with closer combat to Doom Eternal and some weird async multiplayer.
 
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I feel like Hollow Knight might be a good example to look at re:Nonlinearity

Where there is still something of a sequence, but the sequence branches in different directions at a certain point; some upgrades are still prerequisites for others, but there are two or three parallel options for what the "next upgrade" is.

So it would be like, if once you have the Spider Ball in Prime 1, you can either go to the Tower Of Light to get the Wavebuster, or to the Chapel Of The Elders for the Ice Beam. But instead of the Wavebuster being a one-off detour, that would in turn be required to unlock another upgrade somehow, (let's just say you need it to give a more sustained charge to something that the normal Wave Beam can't, and behind that gate they added Seeker Missiles or something) so then it would be a choice between following that new sequence, or going for the Ice Beam. And then if you get Ice Beam, the choice is between the Gravity Suit or Seeker Missiles.

Either way, you're still following a sequence and making progress, and eventually you'll need to get them all anyway, but the order of progression isn't so strictly tied to one exact golden path.
 
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ColdGoldLazarus said:
As much as I hate to admit it, I am kinda with @Stilt Village on this one. I think the soundtrack will be better than Dread's at least, (Samus Returns' OST was pretty good IMO, when it was actually trying to work with the original Metroid II themes and ambience, or make new tracks, instead of leaning on Red Brinstar and Magmoor Caverns) but I am keeping my expectations low overall.

I love Echoes but it does have an even mix of hits and misses, and Corruption had some great pieces (Ironically, my favorite track there was the super understated Meeting Room/Pirate Homeworld Stealth ambience) but I feel like the shift towards Halo-esque orchestra and choir just made a lot of it sound really generic.
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I agree with both you guys. Expectations for the Prime 4 OST are rock bottom.

If it's internal Nintendo composers, I'm expecting another Dread or Prime of the Wild with ambient sounds.
If it's internal Retro Studios composers, I expect a generic orchestral Hollywood-style score because that's what Western AAA Composers are experienced in.
 
I have no expectations for Prime 4's music because we have no idea who's responsible for it, what type of vibe it's trying to sell, what specific inspirations they're looking to take from, and what missteps they're looking to avoid.
 
I suspect this will be like BOTW when it released on both Wii U and also Switch at the same time, as that was a cross-gen title.

To launch a next generation Switch, Nintendo needs to have at least one or two killer flagship titles. I suspect Metroid Prime 4 will be one of those.
 
Games that were super talked about around the time Prime 4 started development so Retro could have taken inspiration from some of these:

God of War 2018
Red Dead 2
Monster Hunter World
Celeste
Into the Breach
Hitman 2
Fortnite
PUBG
BotW
Mario Odyssey
Prey
Cuphead
Nier Automata
Horizon: Zero Dawn
Destiny 2
Hellblade
Cuphead
Wolfenstein: The New Order
Doom 2016
Titanfall 2
Inside
Stardew Valley
Dishonored 2
Uncharted 4
Overwatch
The Witness
The Last Guardian
The Witcher 3

Prey and DOOM and Dishonored 2 and Wolfenstein are the most obvious potential sources of influence, but I could see The Witness, Dishonored 2, Horizon, BotW, and God of War 2018 having some influences.
 
juliotendo said:
I suspect this will be like BOTW when it released on both Wii U and also Switch at the same time, as that was a cross-gen title.

To launch a next generation Switch, Nintendo needs to have at least one or two killer flagship titles. I suspect Metroid Prime 4 will be one of those.
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Metroid is never going to be one of the pillar flagship titles they bet the farm on for the same reason Xenoblade or Arms aren't. The games don't have a wide enough appeal to garner the kind of wide net audience you want to grab early on to build a healthy platform. Like the aforementioned series, they'll happily put them in a quieter month around launch because it's better than nothing but the focus around launch has to be games that the public actually buy enmasse.

Nintendo is going to want as many of the behemoths as they can get out early on, development timescales of their studios probably translating that to a first year with 3d mario, mario kart, animal crossing, maybe mario party and the next 3d Kirby as the real potential pillars, and then smaller titles like prime, something drom monolith soft that could be Xenoblade, another crossover like mario + rabbids, some Nintendo Warriors game, and the like filling quieter months
 
Stilt Village said:
Sure, but what I'm saying is those tracks become more and more of a minority with each entry.
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I agree with this (though I haven't played Prime 3 yet), but I'd like to say that with Prime 2 it's almost a technicality more than anything. Like there's less areas in the game, so that already takes away a lot of the amount of quality tracks. I would still say Prime 2 has a worse OST than Prime even taken on its own merit, given that tracks like Agon Wastes exist, but I'd say considering most of what you're hearing throughout the game is stuff like Temple Grounds, The Luminoth, Torvus Bog, the Water remix, Sanctuary Fortress, and the Main Menu theme and its fanstasic End Credits remix, it feels a little weird to say people are living off the highs of the soundtrack when on average the great tunes probably account for like 70-80% of your playtime. It's like the reverse Tropical Freeze! Not a lot of variety but tons of time to appreciate the great tracks.

I'd say Prime 2 merely has a "great" soundtrack, but that it could have been a GOAT if it just had more diversity. The first area's ost being just ok really blows. I'll also say that outside the Parasite Queen and the Ridley remix, I can't really think of a great boss battle theme from the first two games. I guess I kind of like the Vs. Dark Troopers?

I will say from the one Prime 3 track I heard .... the title theme I think? .... it was just ok? .... felt very Halo which was weird.

I have no hype for Metroid Prime 4's soundtrack, though. All I hope is that if it's really mediocre, people don't make the excuse that it's because it's just being good at being ambient, in Metroid of all franchises where we've had catchy memorable ambient themes before.
 
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If Prime 4 takes inspiration from any game from the past 7 years, I want it to take inspiration from Prey 2017. While that game is different because it's an immersive sim with RPG elements, I think it tackled the nonlinear approach to problem solving very well, I'm not sure if it's sequence break heavy, but at least as far as solving small problems in multiple different ways it's very much what I want to see from Prime, and like Prime 4 would probably handle it, it tackles it in a more developer-intended way than something like say Breath of the Wild.
 
AngryAlchemist said:
I agree with this (though I haven't played Prime 3 yet), but I'd like to say that with Prime 2 it's almost a technicality more than anything. Like there's less areas in the game, so that already takes away a lot of the amount of quality tracks. I would still say Prime 2 has a worse OST than Prime even taken on its own merit, given that tracks like Agon Wastes exist, but I'd say considering most of what you're hearing throughout the game is stuff like Temple Grounds, The Luminoth, Torvus Bog, the Water remix, Sanctuary Fortress, and the Main Menu theme and its fanstasic End Credits remix, it feels a little weird to say people are living off the highs of the soundtrack when on average the great tunes probably account for like 70-80% of your playtime. It's like the reverse Tropical Freeze! Not a lot of variety but tons of time to appreciate the great tracks.

I'd say Prime 2 merely has a "great" soundtrack, but that it could have been a GOAT if it just had more diversity. The first area's ost being just ok really blows. I'll also say that outside the Parasite Queen and the Ridley remix, I can't really think of a great boss battle theme from the first two games. I guess I kind of like the Vs. Dark Troopers?

I will say from the one Prime 3 track I heard .... the title theme I think? .... it was just ok? .... felt very Halo which was weird.

I have no hype for Metroid Prime 4's soundtrack, though. All I hope is that if it's really mediocre, people don't make the excuse that it's because it's just being good at being ambient, in Metroid of all franchises where we've had catchy memorable ambient themes before.
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I think Agon Wastes is fine for the area, it's supposed to be a desolate wasteland.
 
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Linkstrikesback said:
Metroid is never going to be one of the pillar flagship titles they bet the farm on for the same reason Xenoblade or Arms aren't. The games don't have a wide enough appeal to garner the kind of wide net audience you want to grab early on to build a healthy platform. Like the aforementioned series, they'll happily put them in a quieter month around launch because it's better than nothing but the focus around launch has to be games that the public actually buy enmasse.

Nintendo is going to want as many of the behemoths as they can get out early on, development timescales of their studios probably translating that to a first year with 3d mario, mario kart, animal crossing, maybe mario party and the next 3d Kirby as the real potential pillars, and then smaller titles like prime, something drom monolith soft that could be Xenoblade, another crossover like mario + rabbids, some Nintendo Warriors game, and the like filling quieter months
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It isn’t until it is.

Until you actually see the game it’s way to early to call it niche.

Don’t expect history to predict the future, if it has then the switch would have been a massive failures.

It can be one or the other depending on how they pull off Metroid prime 4.

You could saw the same about some other series Nintendo bets the farm on now anyway.

Kirby going from a 1-3million sellers on average to a game that sold 7.5mil, it still keeps the core Kirby gameplay but recontexluizes using its fresh look and dimension as well as including more modern aspects to the core gameplay while still keeping them unbolt Kirby (as seen with the copy ability enhancements)
 
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