Charamiwa
Bob-omb
Oh god the world didn't need that.also, I can see a Arlo video about this given he put out that "Miyamoto really hates story" video.
Oh god the world didn't need that.also, I can see a Arlo video about this given he put out that "Miyamoto really hates story" video.
someone who works for deadline liked itIf one of the trades likes it, that's an extremely good sign. Anything from Deadline or the Hollywood Reporter?
When they both lose to the #GranTurismoSweep
Let's face it, this movie has one goal. And that goal isn't to challenge its viewers and their perception of Mario as a franchise, to challenge our relationship with the corporate structure of game branding or anything super thought provoking.In general i see mostly positive reactions from fans and from most review critics. It is a family movie and did play safe, i'm sure Nintendo didn't want to take to many risks since that's their policy and they wanted it to turn out well (unlike their first try). So i don't mind a first Nintendo movie to be more general and bland story wise if it can be successful enough for them to take more risks going forward.
Any movie has negative reactions, but this one def has more positive ones overall. Seems like a good family movie if you are not a big fan of the material and a great movie if you are.
It's true but i don't 100% agree with the advertisement part. Yes it'f of course to sell games, but Kit&Krysta talked about it in like one of their recent podcast. I think it was one last week. The movie isn't just not to promote video games. They def want this to do well and stand on it's own. As they said, they want to make a wheel of good products so you get stuck in that cycle of buying their console, seeing the movie, going to the theme park, buying merch etc. They are currently adding to that wheel.Let's face it, this movie has one goal. And that goal isn't to challenge its viewers and their perception of Mario as a franchise, to challenge our relationship with the corporate structure of game branding or anything super thought provoking.
The goal of this movie is: To sell Mario video games to children who never played one. To the kids who may have been too young in 2017 to own a Switch. To children from other countries where phones dominate the young market and Nintendo is only a blip.
It's an advertisement. And that means playing it safe. And playing it safe isn't bad. A bit boring and cliched if you're an adult who isn't a Mario fan, but ultimately harmless. And to a child, it could be one of their first theatrical movies, and first experiences with Mario first hand.
"Standing on it's own." - In this case will be not overly relying on deep and navel gazing questions regarding Mario lore and such. Which can come across as shallow to certain people especially compared to movies that challenge our perceptions of characters or at least tackle questions on reality even if by the standards of a kid movie. (Lego Movie, or Puss in Boots)It's true but i don't 100% agree with the advertisement part. Yes it'f of course to sell games, but Kit&Krysta talked about it in like one of their recent podcast. I think it was one last week. The movie isn't just not to promote video games. They def want this to do well and stand on it's own. As they said, they want to make a wheel of good products so you get stuck in that cycle of buying their console, seeing the movie, going to the theme park, buying merch etc. They are currently adding to that wheel.
They want people that plays the game to go see the movie and the people who see the movie to buy the games. I do think they wanted to play safe for the first movie so it has the most chances to succeed. But i doubt all their cinematic projects will be that way and seen as advertisements.
This is just you assuming stuff though. I'm saying internally, Nintendo wanted to build a wheel of consumption for years. They want to reach to most people as possible and that's why you are now seeing theme parks and movies. They are all made to sell each other, but i doubt they put so much effort in the mario movie just to sell Switchs. It is clearly products they want to succeed on their own. That's the nuance i wanted to add to your comment."Standing on it's own." - In this case will be not overly relying on deep and navel gazing questions regarding Mario lore and such. Which can come across as shallow to certain people especially compared to movies that challenge our perceptions of characters or at least tackle questions on reality even if by the standards of a kid movie. (Lego Movie, or Puss in Boots)
It's all about investment in the product as is. If you're not a Mario fan this movie will not change your mind and it isn't trying to. It wants to tell you "what Mario is all about". And in the case of the kids in the audience, it's supposed to hype them up for how fun Mario is that they absolutely must start playing the games.
There's nothing wrong there. It's only negative when the advertisement bends over backwards to sell stuff, and basic logic is thrown out the window to overprioritise the sale. That's a cynical approach which is what people have said of past Illumination films.
I’m not sure what you’re expecting but the bolded was frankly never gonna happen in almost any context Nintendo was involved with it. Doubly so after the disastrous first movie while also re-entering the market. Many a movie/franchise has suffered because they tried being too cute the first time around.Let's face it, this movie has one goal. And that goal isn't to challenge its viewers and their perception of Mario as a franchise, to challenge our relationship with the corporate structure of game branding or anything super thought provoking.
The goal of this movie is: To sell Mario video games to children who never played one. To the kids who may have been too young in 2017 to own a Switch. To children from other countries where phones dominate the young market and Nintendo is only a blip.
It's an advertisement. And that means playing it safe. And playing it safe isn't bad. A bit boring and cliched if you're an adult who isn't a Mario fan, but ultimately harmless. And to a child, it could be one of their first theatrical movies, and first experiences with Mario first hand.
If an adult person has a perception of what Mario is, how does a movie based on Mario shift that? As far as we're seeing, the characters of Mario, Luigi, and Bowser are filling their roles as standard. The only characters whose perceptions look to be challenged will be Princess Peach and maybe Donkey Kong, but overall the film isn't entirely driven by them.This is just you assuming stuff though. I'm saying internally, Nintendo wanted to build a wheel of consumption for years. They want to reach to most people as possible and that's why you are now seeing theme parks and movies. They are all made to sell each other, but i doubt they put so much effort in the mario movie just to sell Switchs. It is clearly products they want to succeed on their own. That's the nuance i wanted to add to your comment.
Of course they want to attract kids into their marketing system and that's another way to get them. But just labelling this movie as an advertisement is underselling it. I've seen adults regain interest in Nintendo just by looking at images of the theme park.
The success they will gain from this whole expansion will be insane. I don't think they are ready for how much it will be.
I’m not sure what you’re expecting but the bolded was frankly never gonna happen in almost any context Nintendo was involved with it. Doubly so after the disastrous first movie while also re-entering the market. Many a movie/franchise has suffered because they tried being too cute the first time around.
It is an advertisement the same way the Lego Movie was an advertisement. The goal isn’t to increase sales of video games since that is a possible secondary byproduct. The biggest goal with the movie is to further expand Nintendo’s brand outside the gaming market. They want Mario & their other IPs to actually be household names instead of kinda. If all they cared about was selling mores games & consoles then it would be as cynical as an Adam Sandler movie.
let that number permeate a littlehow the heck would a Mario movie that translates its world so faithfully land a score less high than a live action Sonic movie set in the real world?
Movie reviews are the most unreliable of them all honestly due to how surface level they are, it could have 100% RT and it still wouldn’t tell me anything about the movie. Remember how Doctor Strange had like 100% RT and very glowing social media impressions? People were so used to the usual MCU template that they went crazy over them doing something slightly different, suddenly it has “Matrix and Inception vibes”. Actual movie was nothing special. Being Illumination’s best movie doesn’t tell me anything either, anything can be better than Despicable Mid, I just want to know if the movie is good
Movies can often have a “ludic” quality to them, look at a lot of Spielberg and Lucas films. Pretty sure Miyamoto said that the movies that inspire him the most when making games is stuff like Indiana Jones. When a movie is “fun”, it has qualities that are way more subtle than stuff like fanservice or being structured like a MCU movie. I haven’t seen a whole lot of videogame adaptations but the big problem that prevents them from ever being well regarded is how they are pretty basic movies in terms of execution, feature some easter eggs “for the fans” and this is supposed to be enough for it to be considered good. In reality it needs more than that
This seems to be going down exactly how I expected - a kinda average kid's movie that's expertly on brand and has lots of Easter eggs and nods to the games but doesn't aim to go beyond that. It's the Sonic movies or Detective Pikachu - perhaps in a better space for fans because Mario is more outwardly faithful, but that doesn't necessarily make it rise up as a film itself.
While I totally get people saying "I'm not here for the plot" or "I don't mind the film playing it safe," I wish we didn't have to choose between a movie that captures the tone and spirit of the franchise and a movie that's better than serviceable. There is some great kid's and all ages stuff, both in terms of style and substance, and I wish the Mario movie could have been that too.
What stunned reaction? Don’t be putting words into my mouth. This is what I expected if the movie was handled well. I expected within the Sonic area overall since the first trailer. Quite a few people called this for the movie since the original announcement the only people who seemed to be shocked are those who wanted more.Judging by a lot of people's stunned reactions, even your own before all these reactions came in, I think a lot of people didn't think that.
Lego Movie is a special case because the Lego Movie was a channeling of the spirit of Lego in a way that relates to our reality. It challenged our perception of how we see Lego and an advertisement for it in general. It embodied the spirit of creativity and love that children grew up with. It was less about the product itself and more about how the viewer percieves the product, being Lego. In that way, yeah it challenges.
Overall I think they should get something under their feet first as they re-enter the market. Find success with something basic then a sequel can go farther. If they want this to be a long term project then we can see more ambition & daring after from other projects after the first brick is laid.This seems to be going down exactly how I expected - a kinda average kid's movie that's expertly on brand and has lots of Easter eggs and nods to the games but doesn't aim to go beyond that. It's the Sonic movies or Detective Pikachu - perhaps in a better space for fans because Mario is more outwardly faithful, but that doesn't necessarily make it rise up as a film itself.
While I totally get people saying "I'm not here for the plot" or "I don't mind the film playing it safe," I wish we didn't have to choose between a movie that captures the tone and spirit of the franchise and a movie that's better than serviceable. There is some great kid's and all ages stuff, both in terms of style and substance, and I wish the Mario movie could have been that too.
This seems to be going down exactly how I expected - a kinda average kid's movie that's expertly on brand and has lots of Easter eggs and nods to the games but doesn't aim to go beyond that. It's the Sonic movies or Detective Pikachu - perhaps in a better space for fans because Mario is more outwardly faithful, but that doesn't necessarily make it rise up as a film itself.
While I totally get people saying "I'm not here for the plot" or "I don't mind the film playing it safe," I wish we didn't have to choose between a movie that captures the tone and spirit of the franchise and a movie that's better than serviceable. There is some great kid's and all ages stuff, both in terms of style and substance, and I wish the Mario movie could have been that too.
What does a Mario movie with a "dense plot" even look like, lol? Can someone even come up with one without wandering far away from what the core material is?
You gotta ask yourself how would someone make a first time viewer friendly Mario movie without it coming across as safe? The more you dive into things, the more complex and sometimes even messy plots can become that bog down a film as well. We've seen this from films like Warcraft that tried to cram an epic war narrative from two sides of the conflict into a nearly 3 hour film, and that still wasn't enough.
Deeper narrative is something we can hope from a sequel.
Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door. Rogueport alone challenges a lot of what Mario is. The first time you see that noose in the plaza, you know this is a more dangerous location. You know things are going to be just off.
You've broken the viewer's reality. Now comes the time to play with it.
Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door. Rogueport alone challenges a lot of what Mario is. The first time you see that noose in the plaza, you know this is a more dangerous location. You know things are going to be just off.
You've broken the viewer's reality. Now comes the time to play with it.
Mario doesn't have to be complex. That isn't his point as a character. His worlds are what's complex as well as the people around him, hence why I took an example from the location.That's a location though ... plot mechanics? What's your protagonist (Mario) compelling need and desire in the story? Is it really that important? What are the stakes? Is the villain really that compelling? What's your first act, second act, third act, what's the payoff at the end?
These things are not that easy to do, especially with a character like Mario, where look I love the Mario games, but it's not like Mario has some kind of massive character dilemma that even a Luke Skywalker or Rocky Balboa or a Simba from The Lion King have where they're going to have a ton of character development and character catharsis.
It's just not what the source material calls for.
The stuff they put in TTYD is probably the primary reason Nintendo said "hang on a minute" and started putting a super tight leash on the franchise. There's absolutely zero chance they do anything like that in film.
These films are all going to be the safest they can ever be
The stuff they put in TTYD is probably the primary reason Nintendo said "hang on a minute" and started putting a super tight leash on the franchise. There's absolutely zero chance they do anything like that in film.
These films are all going to be the safest they can ever be
Mario doesn't have to be complex. That isn't his point as a character. His worlds are what's complex as well as the people around him, hence why I took an example from the location.
In his games, Mario is an inspirational figure who brings out the best in characters. The way he helps Vivian overcome her insecurities by supporting her with his positive attitude. The way he stands confident against the crazy antics of the villains who just can't fathom this happy-go-lucky guy.
Even looking at the mainline games, it's never just about Mario. The depth is from the worlds. The sprawling levels with secrets inside and bizarre characters. His games embody the spirit of fun road trip movies like Emperor's New Groove, Pee-Wee's Big Adventure, Alice in Wonderland.
There's your depth.
I know. I just wanted an example.
I don't think people were expecting like "The Last of Us" level plot version of a Mario movie.
But I think some were hoping it would have a bit more emotional depth that you do see in some Disney/Pixar, Dreamworks, and Sony animated films.
Mario is a pretty uncomplicated franchise where "fun" has always been its only real core property, so I don't think complex emotions that'd sway some movie critics has or will ever be on the table for a movie like this. However, even with a "happy-go-lucky" tone, I think there's a lot of small gestures you could do to make it an affecting, heartfelt movie.
I mean, just with the fact that you have two brothers as the leads it'd be such a shame if they don't even try to bring some heart into that. Have them have this loving, but bickering sibling dynamic with scenes of them not really cooperating perfectly in their plumbing business (character flaws!). Maybe you could have them be separated unexpectedly during some smaller argument they didn't get to resolve, but after this happens and Luigi gets in peril you get these moments where you can tell that Mario is concerned for him. Just a brief thing, and you'd have some other character like Toad or Peach comforting him and cheering him up shortly after, turning him from worried to determined and happy again, but just some small genuine moments and facial expressions would do a lot to create authenticity. With very small actions you've suddenly created the smallest bit of tension where you really want them to be reunited not just because "Luigi is good guy, good guy dying is bad", but because they got separated on a bit of an unresolved note and you want to see it resolved by reuniting them. When they do reunite they will have realized during their adventure that despite their bickering, they still care for each other a lot when it comes down to it, with the third act displaying in full force by defeating Bowser what they can do when they work together at their best. Back in Brooklyn they have truly become the perfectly cooperating Mario Bros. (character development!)
Everyone can relate to this kind of dynamic, whether it's for a sibling, friend, partner or whatever, and it'd all be neatly packaged within a whole bunch of silly and goofy scenarios. The best kinds of fun movies earn it by slowing down just a second at times and being authentic. Luigi being in peril should be quite concerning for a likeable character, so I hope they allow Mario to show that for a moment. Mario being this optimistic, happy force feels so much stronger if you show him falter for just a second, because then you can tell that he works for it. It wouldn't make him complex, and I don't think he should be either, but it'd make him more genuinely likeable than "endlessly optimistic hero guy who seems unphased in his happy-go-lucky demeanor even when family and friends are in peril".
Well yeah that's kind of my point. TLOU has a very simple plot but its complexities come from the characters and relationships. But again, it'd be silly for a Mario movie to get that deep.I mean to be honest even Last of Us is pretty freaking thin plot wise. The Walking Dead has a more complex plot and a lot more characters (even the earlier seasons).
Emotional depth is not something you can just conjure up at the snap of a finger, it needs to have a protagonist that has some serious problems/flaws, and I just don't know if tonally that would work for a Mario movie.
Do people really want to see a Mario that for example even has the guilt/dark past of Simba from the Lion King or something or Mario dealing with family problems like Pixar's Turning Red? I think probably not, you add emotion, but by venturing into that territory you also take away from the general tone of things.
Mario is just supposed to be a fun everyman who has things turn out good for him in the end because he gives a good effort.
Super Paper Mario is where Nintendo had enough. TTYD was perfectly fine to them. And given Nintendo always strives to make Mario better just like they do in the games, they will make sure the movies get better/put new spins on Mario. I wouldn't keep it off the table to see some of the RPG stuff leak out to the movies later on. They already are pulling some pretty obscure characters for this movie.The stuff they put in TTYD is probably the primary reason Nintendo said "hang on a minute" and started putting a super tight leash on the franchise. There's absolutely zero chance they do anything like that in film.
These films are all going to be the safest they can ever be
I spent hours making this thread, if I need to change the overall structure to make it impressions-only and I need to make another review thread, ehh...Besides, I don't think the site wants dozens of Mario movie threads lying around, there's probably gonna be an OT in addition to this and the pre-release discussion thread...@entut1 you should really just make this the impression/preview thread(you can rename the thread by editing the opening post), there is zero reason those should be part of a review thread for something this big. Review threads should always be just review threads, and open with reviews easily accessible in the opening post
you're on Famiboards. you're too lateI am ready to be Nintendoctrinated
My guess is that Nintendo didn't really hold the directors back on the story but the intention was to provide a pretty straightforward narrative and amp it up with jaw-droppin action, cinematography and intriguing worldbuilding. Which is, realistically, how do you turn a 3D Mario game into a movie.I don't particularly recall anything specifically heavy happening in most Mario RPGs. SPM was the closest to "what the hell is going on" with the way it tried to mash up The Count of Montecristo and Shakespeare with toilet jokes at the same time, but even that isn't particularly more serious or gruesome than what Disney regularly does in their media for kids.
But this isn't really something that I think factors here since this is a movie based on the traditional games and in that it really is just "beat the dragon save the princess", which they're clearly trying to add more juice to already by making it a brooklyn origin story + saving his brother instead of the princess + Seven Samurais-esque journey where they find friends to help beat the dragon.
if they are hellbent on making sure the movie feels like a Mario game with the sense of adventure and thrilling action that comes with it, and they adapt Galaxy next, they WILL make sure it FEELS like Galaxy, both in terms of scope and epicness.If they wanna make something deeper but not un-Mario they can’t just tackle and expand Galaxy/Rosalina next
Yeah, everything we've heard and read from the directors points towards that. This is trying to be "the story that we imagined SMB1 was telling as kids" realized in cinematic form, and thats fine in my book because that is exactly what I would've done if I were told to make a Mario movie too.My guess is that Nintendo didn't really hold the directors back on the story but the intention was to provide a pretty straightforward narrative and amp it up with jaw-droppin action, cinematography and intriguing worldbuilding. Which is, realistically, how do you turn a 3D Mario game into a movie.
I’m not going to say they have the most groundbreaking stories ever, but off the top of my head you’ve got:I don't particularly recall anything specifically heavy happening in most Mario RPGs. SPM was the closest to "what the hell is going on" with the way it tried to mash up The Count of Montecristo and Shakespeare with toilet jokes at the same time, but even that isn't particularly more serious or gruesome than what Disney regularly does in their media for kids.
But this isn't really something that I think factors here since this is a movie based on the traditional games and in that it really is just "beat the dragon save the princess", which they're clearly trying to add more juice to already by making it a brooklyn origin story + saving his brother instead of the princess + Seven Samurais-esque journey where they find friends to help beat the dragon.
Like, I've not seen the movie yet, but it is really cool how from the spots/trailers you can see how the world is played so straight in terms of wonder and everything. There's not really much cynical stuff, apart from a few jokes about how Mario finds the place to have weird things going on (which is totally fine for an origin). Every kingdom has its own vibe, its own breathing colors, its own culture. In a way, it does feel like the world of the RPGs who's more fleshed out. And the camera is actually dynamic in this, doesn't stay often in static or barely-moving shots.Yeah, everything we've heard and read from the directors points towards that. This is trying to be "the story that we imagined SMB1 was telling as kids" realized in cinematic form, and thats fine in my book because that is exactly what I would've done if I were told to make a Mario movie too.
That’s really where this movie will shine/have great WOM imo. It looks to have a stunning transition of Mario world and mechanics to film. Easily the best part of the footage we’ve seen so farLike, I've not seen the movie yet, but it is really cool how from the spots/trailers you can see how the world is played so straight in terms of wonder and everything. There's not really much cynical stuff, apart from a few jokes about how Mario finds the place to have weird things going on (which is totally fine for an origin). Every kingdom has its own vibe, its own breathing colors, its own culture. In a way, it does feel like the world of the RPGs who's more fleshed out. And the camera is actually dynamic in this, doesn't stay often in static or barely-moving shots.
But literally everything you've listed is, again, not remotely heavier than what kids cartoons are already used to be doing for long years, be it in maturity or thematic weight, and frankly you kinda worded some of it far more grizzly than it actualy wasI’m not going to say they have the most groundbreaking stories ever, but off the top of my head you’ve got:
An abusive family relationship between Vivian and her sisters, Admiral Bobbery having to be walked back from deep depression following the death of his wife and his self blame of having not been there for her, and the main villain being a decently disturbing demon who possesses Peach, decapitates Grodus, and is a higher level threat in general than we typically see.
The whole story centers around the tragic romance of a man and woman from different tribes, and how the woman is implied to have been beaten to near death by the man’s father, and eventually forced to become a Pixl to save her life at the cost of her memory, while the man becomes a nihilistic villain seeking to wipe out all reality in his grief. We do see one world completely wiped out and wander through its ruins, and at one point you go through the Mario equivalent to hell.
The Origami creatures in general, most notably Peach, have a disturbing pod people quality to them and the game kind of plays it for body horror. On top of that, 3 named characters are killed in the game; Bobby, who’s sacrifice is noteably grieved on as a plot point, Olly, who is killed in the final battle, and Olivia, who unwishes her own existence to undo the damage her brother had caused to the world. Unlike the previous two games, these sacrifices actually stick and there is no revival.
In defense of WestEgg, I don't remember a lot of Disney movies where a supporting character which death happens mid-movie has a profound impact on a main character's journey in the last 20 years. They actually seem to have moved away from that mostly.But literally everything you've listed is, again, not remotely heavier than what kids cartoons are already used to be doing for long years, be it in maturity or thematic weight, and frankly you kinda worded some of it far more grizzly than it actualy wasAnd if Disney, masters of mass market family appeal Disney, is willing to key-off Shakespearean murder plots for it's films, I don't see the big deal when Mario does it too.(Vivian's abuse is blatantly squabbling and cartoonish, Grodus is a robot who survives as a talking head, the Shakespeare-transplant plot in SPM is sandwiched within the context of potty humor, nerdy pop culture jokes and villains who fly by farting and so on, all violence in Origami King is smoothed over by the paper nature of the characters much in the same way where Transformers cartoons for kids get away with body horror due to the robotical nature of the characters).