Discussion What was the original source of the 2D Donkey Kong rumor?

[Catalyst]

As someone who played Retro’s DKC games as a kid and Rare’s games much later I definitely found the Rare games to be harder. I think both styles are about the same difficulty, it just comes down to which you are more familiar with.

 

[TreIII]

Def feel the opposite lol, DK stands out the most of all Nintendo’s platformers for me

Yoshi, at his best, might be the only one that I think may have the edge. And that's mainly because I still think Yoshi's tongue and egg-throwing mechanics are still what I consider to be the most amusing and unique toolkit in any Nintendo platformer.

But when I want to be actually challenged and have a variety of "vibe checks" based on my knowledge of fundamentals? That's what my boy DK is for.

 

[Mekanos]

For me, the DKC games never found a strong gameplay identity like other popular contemporaries (Sonic, Kirby, Mario, Yoshi). I like how the primary attack moves you forward and speeds up with each kill - gave them a nice sense of momentum that I'd like new games to build on - but other than that, what were they really? Pretty by-the-numbers platformers with lousy British anthropomorphic character designs, great soundtracks and licensed-game-tier collision detection.
I think if you folded in design elements from Jungle Beat and DK 94, you could really get a stew going.

Also, I hope they never bring back the Kremlings dodges banana

Why does a series need to have some groundbreaking mechanic or gameplay style? The DKC games have great level design and feel good to play. I just booted up DKC1 and 2 and had a great time with them. I can't speak to your questionable taste regarding the Rare characters, but the last thing I would want is them to shed the Rare stuff and focus on Jungle Beat and Arcade stuff. There's nothing wrong with the DKC formula and there's still room for it to be expanded on and tweaked.

DKCR and TF were both successful and acclaimed games, no need to fix what isn't broken.

 

[beaglor]

Why does a series need to have some groundbreaking mechanic or gameplay style?

I didn't say they need to, I just said they didn't. We obviously both agree, because you went on to justify not having one. I mean, I think it's a good idea for games to at least try to justify themselves beyond competently filling up a hole in a release schedule, especially if they want to attain classic status, but I don't think failing to do that invalidates them. At the time, DKC derived a lot from Mario and Sonic and tried to set itself apart with audiovisual lustre - but that came off in a single wash to put it lightly, and not many people nowadays will argue it looks better than its inspiration. Which left me with the question: what's left? What is there to preserve moving forward? (Setting aside that it's obvious they should have good, solid level design and should feel good to play, and nothing I've said precludes that).
I answered: retaining the momentum-based gameplay. You can keep the stuff like collecting bananas, but you'd need to repurpose them somewhat because lives have fallen out of fashion and nobody wants them back. Retro half-heartedly tried with the Kong POW stuff, but it needs something extra imo. I think that's something you could look to Jungle Beat for - turning it into a scoring mechanic/life mechanic. Something Sonic hinted at but never ran with. Obviously I think it should have good, solid level design too - but literally all the high-tier platformers from that era (minus Kirby imo, which is practically impossible to design levels for) had that.
I never said they should shed the Rare stuff, just that most of it's cosmetic with the exception of the rolling attacks that build hits, or derived from other games. Like, I'd keep the animal mounts, collectibles, character-switching, barrel cannons etc. - I just would want them to do something more with it. It's pretty boilerplate stuff, and Nintendo's a world-class chef - I expect more from them and clearly they do too, because most of their games follow the philosophy I'm talking about.

 

[Mekanos]

I never said they should shed the Rare stuff

Also, I hope they never bring back the Kremlings dodges banana

C'mon son

Also claiming DKC is "boilerplate" for Nintendo is absurd. How many 2D platformers stack up to Tropical Freeze in the last couple of decades? There's nothing "boilerplate" about the design of that game.

It's strange that it's only in DKC threads people come in going "they should totally change the series from things people like in these games." Nobody goes into Metroid threads going "boy I really hope they remove the maze-like gameplay and weapon upgrades and turn it into a linear simple action game."

 

[Clov]

It's strange that it's only in DKC threads people come in going "they should totally change the series from things people like in these games."

Well, I think there's a point to be made here! Perhaps the gameplay of DKC is simply the gameplay of yesterday. Today's DK fans deserve something new, something fresh, something even better! That's why I've put together an idea of how to change up the DKC games to satisfy these lapsed fans, who want the big ape to take on a brand new challenge that retains the core of the series so many people love.

First, one of the things we gotta talk about is the difficulty. The DKC games all have a reputation of being fairly difficult platformers, so the first major change is adding a difficulty setting. Easy, Normal, Hard, and for those truly seeking a challenge, Very Hard. Great for both newcomers and veterans alike! Next, there needs to be more modes! DKC has single player mode and some co-op. Pretty basic. I say it needs some spicing up! Add not only co-op, but story mode (with little cutscenes before and after each stage) stage clear mode (go from stage to stage with no map), versus (up to four players), etc. Plenty of ways to expand the game by introducing new modes!

Next, let's talk about the story. Now given that it's DK, this isn't too important, but it's kind of boring just having his bananas stolen again and again, isn't it? DKC2 and 3 mix things up by having Kongs get kidnapped, at the cost of playable DK himself. So to mix things up, DK's friends have been hypnotized (by K Rool? Who knows!) and he has to embark on an adventure to free them! Of course, this will involve battling the many, various Kongs to do so. Next is the setting. When you think of DK, you think of jungles, and all these different places on DK Island. That was fine then, but we need something better now. That's why the next DK should be set on islands in the sky! To make these locations feel lived in, maybe they could be where the Banana Fairies come from. A new DK adventure in the fairy islands of the sky!

Almost done here! One of the most important aspects of the DKC games is the gameplay itself. But platformers are often difficult for a lot of people, so to increase the potential audience and take DK to new frontiers, I would make this new DKC game a puzzle game. Not falling blocks of course; rather, the blocks would rise from the bottom of the screen, and you would have to match three or more to clear them. Another important aspect are the characters. I have to agree with the assessment regarding the lousy British character designs, which is why I would remove the characters entirely, and replace them with an all-woman cast of cute fairies. Finally, with the characters missing, the name "Donkey Kong Country" simply would have to go. I'm thinking a name like "Panel de Pon" would fit much better instead.

In any case, that's how I'd reinvigorate the DKC franchise.

 

[Mekanos]

In any case, that's how I'd reinvigorate the DKC franchise.

 

[beaglor]

C'mon son

Also claiming DKC is "boilerplate" for Nintendo is absurd. How many 2D platformers stack up to Tropical Freeze in the last couple of decades? There's nothing "boilerplate" about the design of that game.

It's strange that it's only in DKC threads people come in going "they should totally change the series from things people like in these games." Nobody goes into Metroid threads going "boy I really hope they remove the maze-like gameplay and weapon upgrades and turn it into a linear simple action game."

Well, I think there's a point to be made here! Perhaps the gameplay of DKC is simply the gameplay of yesterday. Today's DK fans deserve something new, something fresh, something even better! That's why I've put together an idea of how to change up the DKC games to satisfy these lapsed fans, who want the big ape to take on a brand new challenge that retains the core of the series so many people love.

First, one of the things we gotta talk about is the difficulty. The DKC games all have a reputation of being fairly difficult platformers, so the first major change is adding a difficulty setting. Easy, Normal, Hard, and for those truly seeking a challenge, Very Hard. Great for both newcomers and veterans alike! Next, there needs to be more modes! DKC has single player mode and some co-op. Pretty basic. I say it needs some spicing up! Add not only co-op, but story mode (with little cutscenes before and after each stage) stage clear mode (go from stage to stage with no map), versus (up to four players), etc. Plenty of ways to expand the game by introducing new modes!

Next, let's talk about the story. Now given that it's DK, this isn't too important, but it's kind of boring just having his bananas stolen again and again, isn't it? DKC2 and 3 mix things up by having Kongs get kidnapped, at the cost of playable DK himself. So to mix things up, DK's friends have been hypnotized (by K Rool? Who knows!) and he has to embark on an adventure to free them! Of course, this will involve battling the many, various Kongs to do so. Next is the setting. When you think of DK, you think of jungles, and all these different places on DK Island. That was fine then, but we need something better now. That's why the next DK should be set on islands in the sky! To make these locations feel lived in, maybe they could be where the Banana Fairies come from. A new DK adventure in the fairy islands of the sky!

Almost done here! One of the most important aspects of the DKC games is the gameplay itself. But platformers are often difficult for a lot of people, so to increase the potential audience and take DK to new frontiers, I would make this new DKC game a puzzle game. Not falling blocks of course; rather, the blocks would rise from the bottom of the screen, and you would have to match three or more to clear them. Another important aspect are the characters. I have to agree with the assessment regarding the lousy British character designs, which is why I would remove the characters entirely, and replace them with an all-woman cast of cute fairies. Finally, with the characters missing, the name "Donkey Kong Country" simply would have to go. I'm thinking a name like "Panel de Pon" would fit much better instead.

In any case, that's how I'd reinvigorate the DKC franchise.

You're both pathologically dishonest imbeciles and there are too many people on this board like you. I can't be bothered any more, so this is my last post here.

 

[Raccoon]

C'mon son

Also claiming DKC is "boilerplate" for Nintendo is absurd. How many 2D platformers stack up to Tropical Freeze in the last couple of decades? There's nothing "boilerplate" about the design of that game.

It's strange that it's only in DKC threads people come in going "they should totally change the series from things people like in these games." Nobody goes into Metroid threads going "boy I really hope they remove the maze-like gameplay and weapon upgrades and turn it into a linear simple action game."

in fairness, we live in a world where two big nintendo series did dramatically change to great success: zelda and animal crossing are now very different in core gameplay

 

[Clov]

You're both pathologically dishonest imbeciles and there are too many people on this board like you. I can't be bothered any more, so this is my last post here.

You sound like K. Rool from the cartoon!

 

[Mekanos]

You're both pathologically dishonest imbeciles and there are too many people on this board like you. I can't be bothered any more, so this is my last post here.

 

[Clov]

 

[Raccoon]

also, there's a big difference between saying what they should do and what you hope they do. I hope for a lot of things that would be absolutely abysmal business decisions

 

[Zalman]

My opinion on this whole saga is that it's all made up. A classic case of everyone talking to the same people and rumors being spread in that same circle. We've seen it time and time again.

Having said that, there are reasons to believe Nintendo has plans for Donkey Kong even if everything we've heard so far is false. The theme park is a serious investment. They could have picked any other franchise, but they chose to go with DK. Also, we know EPD Tokyo has been hiring for a 2D game that has yet to be revealed. It could be Mario, but it's worth noting there already is a 2D Mario team. This alone would naturally lead me to the conclusion that something is up with DK.

Historically, Miyamoto has been the one to push for DK games. He's the reason EAD Tokyo got to do Jungle Beat. He's the reason Retro got to reboot DKC. He's the main person in charge of Super Nintendo World, and he's the producer on the Mario movie which heavily features Donkey Kong. I don't think it's a coincidence that Donkey Kong games went on a break the moment he stepped down as the head of EAD. That said, we're seeing the company invest heavily in the IP in other areas, and I think it's inevitable that there will be a significant game release in the relatively near future.

 

[Mekanos]

in fairness, we live in a world where two big nintendo series did dramatically change to great success: zelda and animal crossing are now very different in core gameplay

I haven't played the older AC titles so I can't weigh in on them, but I really don't think BOTW is such a drastic reimagining as you are implying here.

It's still about Link, Zelda, Ganon, the Master Sword, and all that. There's Zoras, Lizalfos, and so on. The combat and sense of exploration are very much in line with previous 3D Zelda titles, just evolved and expanded on. It's different, yes, dramatically so in some ways, but it's not like how in DK threads you often get people dumping on the classic DKC games and their characters, acting like they are this weird aberration best left in the past. Even the Triforce, which has a downplayed role compared to a lot of classic Zelda titles, is still everywhere in the iconography of the game.

This viewpoint that the Rare era of DK is something to view with shame largely stems from attitudes both in journalism and online discussion in the 2000s after the Rare buyout to justify Nintendo's jettisoning of Rare as a net good, and permeates to this day despite the games being big successes and people clearly still loving their worlds and characters. I don't need to tell you which classic Rare characters got added to Smash Ultimate out of sheer fan demand.

 

[TheSpearGuy]

I don't need to tell you which classic Rare characters got added to Smash Ultimate out of sheer fan demand.

Obviously Banjo

 

[Raccoon]

I haven't played the older AC titles so I can't weigh in on them, but I really don't think BOTW is such a dramatic reimagining as you are implying here.

It's still about Link, Zelda, Ganon, the Master Sword, and all that. There's Zoras, Lizalfos, and so on. The combat and sense of exploration are very much in line with previous 3D Zelda titles, just evolved and expanded on. It's different, yes, dramatically so in some ways, but it's not like how in DK threads you often get people dumping on the classic DKC games and their characters, acting like they are this weird aberration best left in the past. Even the Triforce, which has a downplayed role compared to a lot of classic Zelda titles, is still everywhere in the iconography of the game.

This viewpoint that the Rare era of DK is something to view with shame largely stems from attitudes both in journalism and online discussion in the 2000s after the Rare buyout to justify Nintendo's jettisoning of Rare as a net good, and permeates to this day despite the games being big successes and people clearly still loving their worlds and characters. I don't need to tell you which classic Rare characters got added to Smash Ultimate out of sheer fan demand.

it may not be directly comparable, but people talk about the "zelda formula" with the same derision and likely similarly motivation of treating what's new as entirely superior to the past

I guess what I'm saying is that arguing for sweeping change is and will be more common because it now has some objective backing

 

[Aurc]

Nobody goes into Metroid threads going "boy I really hope they remove the maze-like gameplay and weapon upgrades and turn it into a linear simple action game."

Now that you mention it, my big, dumb self would actually love a spinoff with a robust combat system, focused primarily on Samus's fighting prowess. Definitely not the direction I'd want for the mainline entries, though.

 

[Mekanos]

Now that you mention it, my big, dumb self would actually love a spinoff with a robust combat system, focused primarily on Samus's fighting prowess. Definitely not the direction I'd want for the mainline entries, though.

Hey I'd play Metroid Rising Revengeance, just saying

it may not be directly comparable, but people talk about the "zelda formula" with the same derision and likely similarly motivation of treating what's new as entirely superior to the past

I guess what I'm saying is that arguing for sweeping change is and will be more common because it now has some objective backing

I don't entirely disagree but I think one of the key differences is the BOTW "formula" has been proven to be successful both with Zelda fans and general audiences. In DKC threads nobody can really articulate what should replace the DKC "style," other than vague gestures to the Arcade games and the like. The best selling DK game is still the original DKC1, and even the Retro games for all their differences and lack of classic Rare characters are still obviously inspired and in the mold of the SNES trilogy, if also comfortably their own take.

I'm not even saying like, just make a slavish recreation of my childhood experiences of monkeys jumping on crocodiles in the 1990s. I think the series should push forward and constantly evolve. But there's no reason the classic characters and atmosphere of the series need to be disregarded as strongly as they sometimes are. I'm hoping Nintendo finally realizes that, but we're still sitting here 9 years without a new DK game, so...

 

[Aurc]

Hey I'd play Metroid Rising Revengeance, just saying

Someday, I hope. Someday...

 

[Clov]

Now that you mention it, my big, dumb self would actually love a spinoff with a robust combat system, focused primarily on Samus's fighting prowess. Definitely not the direction I'd want for the mainline entries, though.

I got a great idea about how to reinvigorate the Metroid series! But I don't know if you'd want to hear it...

 

[Aurc]

I got a great idea about how to reinvigorate the Metroid series! But I don't know if you'd want to hear it...

Of course I would. Even if it's scary, I bet it'd also be interesting.

 

[Yamanoi]

Someday, I hope. Someday...

Would that not diminish the prestige further?

I think a Metroid game with more cats is a better idea.

 

[Aurc]

Would that not diminish the prestige further?

I think a Metroid game with more cats is a better idea.

I think Metroid's prestige is, unfortunately, unrecoverable now. They may as well cancel Prime 4. Without high sales, and without high prestige, what are you really left with?

As for a cat Metroid game, WarioWare: Twisted! had us covered there. Wario does what Nintendon't, as usual.

 

[Mekanos]

Would that not diminish the prestige further?

I think a Metroid game with more cats is a better idea.

 

[Clov]

Of course I would. Even if it's scary, I bet it'd also be interesting.

Alright! You asked for it...

So as we are all aware, Metroid is one of the lesser Nintendo franchises in terms of sales, but thankfully by making a few quick adjustments we can give the series a universal appeal that will guarantee success! The first thing we need to do away with is the "isolation" aspect, and go back to what made Metroid Prime Hunters appealing for so many people. That is, the social aspect! Playing against other people. That will need to be the focus of the Metroid franchise. Between two to four players ought to work fine! The next issue is exploration. It's just a bit too complicated for some people, so we needn't explore at all. Better to stick to a single location, that way nobody can get lost or frustrated. Next we must consider the gameplay. Let's face it; action is just too hard for most people who play games. Most people just want an engaging, yet gentle experience, and that's something the Metroid series is seriously lacking. With one notable exception of course: Metroid Prime Pinball. But I certainly wouldn't suggest making a sequel or follow-up to that to reinvigorate the franchise!

After all, pinball is (quite sadly) dead. It's fortunate that there other genres of board based games to use, the most notable of all these games, and one Nintendo has a long history with, being, mahjong. Now I know what you're thinking; "Metroid Mahjong? Really?" And my answer is, "of course not." Fans of mahjong would be terribly put-off by the frightening iconography of the Metroid series, which is why it would stripped away completely. And of course, a mahjong game called "Metroid" would be terribly confusing for fans of the classic game, so something like "Yakuman" would be much more appropriate.

 

[Aurc]

Alright! You asked for it...

So as we are all aware, Metroid is one of the lesser Nintendo franchises in terms of sales, but thankfully by making a few quick adjustments we can give the series a universal appeal that will guarantee success! The first thing we need to do away with is the "isolation" aspect, and go back to what made Metroid Prime Hunters appealing for so many people. That is, the social aspect! Playing against other people. That will need to be the focus of the Metroid franchise. Between two to four players ought to work fine! The next issue is exploration. It's just a bit too complicated for some people, so we needn't explore at all. Better to stick to a single location, that way nobody can get lost or frustrated. Next we must consider the gameplay. Let's face it; action is just too hard for most people who play games. Most people just want an engaging, yet gentle experience, and that's something the Metroid series is seriously lacking. With one notable exception of course: Metroid Prime Pinball. But I certainly wouldn't suggest making a sequel or follow-up to that to reinvigorate the franchise!

After all, pinball is (quite sadly) dead. It's fortunate that there other genres of board based games to use, the most notable of all these games, and one Nintendo has a long history with, being, mahjong. Now I know what you're thinking; "Metroid Mahjong? Really?" And my answer is, "of course not." Fans of mahjong would be terribly put-off by the frightening iconography of the Metroid series, which is why it would stripped away completely. And of course, a mahjong game called "Metroid" would be terribly confusing for fans of the classic game, so something like "Yakuman" would be much more appropriate.

I didn't know what to expect. At first, I was nervous.

But this pitch... ? The prospect of Metroid finally moving out of the niche zone, and cementing its prestige for good? I don't see how any true fan of the series, who wants to see it succeed, could ever say no. Those unpopular elements have indeed been holding it back for a long time. People don't want to be alone on some isolated planet or space station. With games like Animal Crossing and Splatoon as successful as they are, you'd think Nintendo would bring Metroid up to par. I also agree that the action gameplay is Too Hard, and something with a more chill vibe (again, like Animal Crossing) would see sales skyrocket. I asked my mom if she knew who Samus was, and she had no idea who I was talking about. That's a problem.

All that said, I'm in favor of a Metroid Yakuman game. Maybe it's what fans of the series didn't know they wanted, but that the series needs?

@Yamanoi... I'm beginning to think there's hope. Maybe Metroid's prestige can be recovered after all?

Spoiler

 

[MondoMega]

After all, pinball is (quite sadly) dead.

Just you wait until Pokemon Pinball-Threeie…

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

It's strange that it's only in DKC threads people come in going "they should totally change the series from things people like in these games." Nobody goes into Metroid threads going "boy I really hope they remove the maze-like gameplay and weapon upgrades and turn it into a linear simple action game."

This happens in every Star Fox thread

 

[Terrell]

This happens in every Star Fox thread

It does, when the real answer should always be "yes AND".

Yes, keep the rail shooter main gameplay loop AND add more to it that is sensible for its overall setting and does not impede or betray that core loop.
The moment you're subtracting from a core gameplay loop before making additions to it, the far greater the likelihood is that you're gonna have people get contentious about it.

 

[Gingerbread Man]

For me, the DKC games never found a strong gameplay identity like other popular contemporaries (Sonic, Kirby, Mario, Yoshi). I like how the primary attack moves you forward and speeds up with each kill - gave them a nice sense of momentum that I'd like new games to build on - but other than that, what were they really? Pretty by-the-numbers platformers with lousy British anthropomorphic character designs, great soundtracks and licensed-game-tier collision detection.
I think if you folded in design elements from Jungle Beat and DK 94, you could really get a stew going.

Also, I hope they never bring back the Kremlings dodges banana

The real thing holding back DK’s sales potential in the 21st century has been lack of Kremlings. Bring them back and Nintendo can fill a banana horde with the money they will make.

But actually… while I started this comment as a joke, I do think there is some correlation to it. Rare-era DK on the SNES and N64 kind of marketed itself as an “cool / edgy, but unlike Sonic is available on Nintendo” alternative to the more universally welcoming Mario. They really milked cool 90s kid interests and vibes with the franchise. I.e.: The somehow simultaneously dark yet colorful graphics were a selling point, realistic jungle/adventure theme, soundtrack full of bangers (culminating in the DK Rap), Taco Bell and Lunchables cross promotions, Diddy’s jukebox and hip hat, Cranky‘s ornery dialogue, Candy‘s flirtatiousness, Funky Kong’s existence, and K. Rool being marginally more threatening than Bowser, DKR was more chaotic than MK64. The list goes on. Some of these things are present in modern DK, but it’s a different vibe. The difference in player experience and visuals alike between DKC and SMW felt more stark than, say, NSMBU and DKCTF. To me, at least.

Where Mario hit the Disney kid demographic, DK hit the Nickelodeon kid one. And, with nothing but love to post-Rare DK, I do feel like a lot of that specific brand of personality was lost when the Rare breakup happened. I think this “edgy” theming I am referring to has been delivered really well in the Splatoon franchise, so Nintendo can pull it off without Rare. And while a brand new Switch DK is probably going to sell great regardless, a return to its “90s era personality“ (which includes Kremlings) would be a unique feel relative to Nintendo’s other Platformers.

Uh, I kinda agree with both of these posts.

I think @PK_Wonder is right -- the three Rare DKC games had some unique vibes due to:
1) The dark, moody atmosphere. Wheater or not this was intentional, or the result of the technical limitations of early pre-rendered games (DK64 was a lot more cartoony), is debatable; still, DKC had something unique you couldn't find in Mario, Sonic, or Kirby;
2) The hip, cool characters.

The Retro games feel much more "safe", in that regard -- even Disney-esque (IIRC Tropical Freeze even references The Lion King in one stage).

... But I like them better. I'm biased towards colorful cartoony platformers, and the "90s personality" of the Rare character often comes out as "trying too hard" for my tastes (and I think some of their characters are outright ugly). Still, I'm philosophically against "take something unique and replace it with X", with "X = something more generic and safe" (see every "Nintendo should do X", where "X = what Microsoft are Sony are doing"). So, while I do like the Retro approach, I don't think it is completely fair to the series' history.

I really like what they did with K. Rool in Smash. I was not a K. Rool fan -- I didn't like his design, and I think in-game he was more of a Saturn morning buffoon (every episode with a different personality, kinda like King Koopa) than a real threat. In Smash, they tweaked his design here and there, and they turned him into a feral beast -- the perfect counterpart of post-Jungle Beat Donkey Kong. (Speaking of DK, his personality is something the Retro game really got right -- a nice middle point between the goofy DK of the Rare games and the more brutal DK of Jungle Beat)

Gameplay-wise, I don't think the Rare games really convey that you control a giant gorilla. For me, they feel like good platformers (though the hitboxes are a bit wonky, especially in DKC1), but not necessarily good Donkey Kong platformers (and maybe that's part of the reason DK got sidelined in DKC2 and 3?). On the other hand, in the Retro games DK "weights" a lot more. But I think the best DK game is Jungle Beat, where you feel you are controlling an athletic gorilla with super strength, collecting bananas, and slaying enemies to proclaim himself the King of the Jungle. Jungle Beat, I think, will remain a one-off, not only for DK, but for Nintendo in general (often it feels like a SEGA game), but it would be cool to see some of Jungle Beat gameplay elements integrated into the more traditional Country framework.

 

[Brock Reiher]

I hope a new Donkey Kong game brings back the classic characters. I like 64, Returns, and Tropical Freeze a lot but without Rare or Retro working on it I don't see why they should bother. Jungle Beat showed that you can ditch all the friends and focus on just Donkey Kong and nothing is lost, so especially if a main Nintendo team is working on it I would love to see something closer to that. Characters like Cactus King and Dread Kong have tons of potential and deserve another chance to shine.

If we can't get that I want to see characters like Diddy Kong and King K Rool replaced by Donkey Kong Jr and Stanley the Bug Man. The classic games are a lot better than the country games and it's been too long since those characters were last around, and it would be awesome to see a 2D platformer with some urban influence.

That was why this rumor was always so exciting to me, if its EPD there's a legitimate chance it's something like Jungle Beat or Donkey Kong 3.

It does, when the real answer should always be "yes AND".

Yes, keep the rail shooter main gameplay loop AND add more to it that is sensible for its overall setting and does not impede or betray that core loop.
The moment you're subtracting from a core gameplay loop before making additions to it, the far greater the likelihood is that you're gonna have people get contentious about it.

They made this in 2016 and people didn't like it, presumably because All Range Mode wasn't miserable enough.

 

[Nathan Little]

Jungle Beat showed that you can ditch all the friends and focus on just Donkey Kong and nothing is lost, so especially if a main Nintendo team is working on it I would love to see something closer to that. Characters like Cactus King and Dread Kong have tons of potential and deserve another chance to shine.

If we can't get that I want to see characters like Diddy Kong and King K Rool replaced by Donkey Kong Jr and Stanley the Bug Man. The classic games are a lot better than the country games and it's been too long since those characters were last around, and it would be awesome to see a 2D platformer with some urban influence.

I love Jungle Beat but that game absolutely did suffer without the RARE cast, from both in fan reception and sales. Fans certainly weren't happy their favorite characters were missing. Sales-wise, you can't even say it was because it was tied to a peripheral since Donkey Konga, which included Diddy and friends, outsold Jungle Beat.

Considering the main RARE cast have some kind of presence in the theme park and the Mario film, they certainly aren't going to be removed anytime soon. Whether you like em or not, they are THE Donkey Kong brand.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

On the point of how DK needs to change with the times: The Retro games already do that.

I grew up playing DKCR and not liking it and even Tropical Freeze I'm not a huge fan of, and finally beating Tropical Freeze after emulating DKC1 for the first time it was clear how different the series was and how modernized it is:

• The Retro games place a really, really big emphasis on physics. They are very "Mario" inspired, in that it's super easy to die from not canceling your run fast enough. Donkey Kong is very slippery compared to the SNES games which would drop momentum the moment you stopped holding the directional buttons. This makes the game feel more "modern" because there's more feedback.
• The newer games have a heavy emphasis on collectathon elements that was honestly barely there in the original. The original games motivate you to keep going and collect bananas on your way through the level, but the new games feature them as a mechanic that has you stopping and collecting them.
• The new games feature a lot more accessibility options
• Finally, and I think this is a pretty big one that's subtle, the new games feature Donkey Kong as the main protagonist and the only protagonist. You can't play as his friends. This restriction feels very inline with Nintendo modernizing DK and putting emphasis on the central character. From a brand perspective it's not a terrible move. Your buddies even get special perks.

The new games also essentially remove the animal buddy gimmick except for really flashy quick time levels.

Overall I think it's fair to say DK has actually changed with the times a lot.

It's strange that it's only in DKC threads people come in going "they should totally change the series from things people like in these games." Nobody goes into Metroid threads going "boy I really hope they remove the maze-like gameplay and weapon upgrades and turn it into a linear simple action game."

Yeah because instead people come into Metroid threads and talk about how the series should die while praising the sales success of Xenoblade and FE in other threads lmao

 

[Deleted member 4028]

I can't be bothered any more, so this is my last post here.

Great! Lol

 

[Mekanos]

I hope a new Donkey Kong game brings back the classic characters. I like 64, Returns, and Tropical Freeze a lot but without Rare or Retro working on it I don't see why they should bother. Jungle Beat showed that you can ditch all the friends and focus on just Donkey Kong and nothing is lost, so especially if a main Nintendo team is working on it I would love to see something closer to that. Characters like Cactus King and Dread Kong have tons of potential and deserve another chance to shine.

If we can't get that I want to see characters like Diddy Kong and King K Rool replaced by Donkey Kong Jr and Stanley the Bug Man. The classic games are a lot better than the country games and it's been too long since those characters were last around, and it would be awesome to see a 2D platformer with some urban influence.

That was why this rumor was always so exciting to me, if its EPD there's a legitimate chance it's something like Jungle Beat or Donkey Kong 3.

They made this in 2016 and people didn't like it, presumably because All Range Mode wasn't miserable enough.

I knew you’d come into this thread with this take eventually and you didn’t disappoint

 

[Brock Reiher]

I knew you’d come into this thread with this take eventually and you didn’t disappoint

I am this forum's #1 Donkey Kong Jr and Dread Kong fan for a reason. Let's just hope EPD feels the same

 

[Leo]

As much as I love DKTF, I would like the series to go back to Rare's style, because they're very different games and usually fans of a franchise want to keep playing things in that same style, and I've been waiting since 96 to get a sequel to DKC3.

Returns to me was a straight up boring game, they at the same time managed to make it as derivative of DKC1 as possible copying the same settings, structure and even music, and also changed everything about how the game actually plays, so I have no idea what they were trying to do. Actually, I do, I think it was a Ultimate Marvel universe kind of thing where they were trying to remake DK to new audiences, but it didn't work for me at all cause I'm a boomer and I'm not sure Retro understood DK like they understood Metroid when they made Prime.

TF is much better because it has lots of great original ideas and they actually seemed to get the vibes of DK better, given how moody the music and levels sometimes got. Apart from it still controlling like a completely different game, at least the game had sublime level design and I could get over it only resembling a DK game.

That said, I just want to play something that makes me feel like I'm playing DKC again, so I hope the new game is a step on that direction.

 

[Deleted member 4028]

The classic games are a lot better than the country games

Returns to me was a straight up boring game

 

[Brock Reiher]

fwiw Returns is my fave DKC. If we had a remaster with a Wise soundtrack even more so

 

[Deleted member 4028]

fwiw Returns is my fave DKC. If we had a remaster with a Wise soundtrack even more so

Nice, not often I see somebody else with that opinion. I think it's my favorite too, it's close between it or TF. And yeah, I actually like the music but that's mostly because it was my first time hearing these songs. If I'd played the originals then maybe a soundtrack of mostly remixes would have been kind of underwhelming to me. An original soundtrack like he did for TF would be great

 

[Leo]

Returns is a DK game that has bad controls and mostly rehashed worlds and music. Also you can't play with Diddy unless it's multiplayer, and Dixie, arguably the best character, isn't even in the game.

I'm very happy for people who liked it, but it's not exactly a modern classic lol

 

[Brock Reiher]

Returns is a DK game that has bad controls and mostly rehashed worlds and music. Also you can't play with Diddy unless it's multiplayer, and Dixie, arguably the best character, isn't even in the game.

I'm very happy for people who liked it, but it's not exactly a modern classic lol

The worlds are the best part. You get a wonderful progression that is completely absent from Tropical Freeze. The music is imo pretty bland but it has tons of minecart and rocket barrel levels along with the extra difficult special levels which is what Retro Studios excels at (carried over from Metroid Prime 3 morph ball segments to an extent). I think lack of Diddy is a huge positive, although he's still a little too present for my tastes.

It not a modern classic because it came out like 12 years ago

 

[Mekanos]

DKCR is a solid game but I definitely think it's the least standout of the five Countries. There's not much in it that TF doesn't do better and it has the least interesting characters and theming while also relying a ton on DKC1 nostalgia.

Diddy Kong is one of Nintendo's greatest characters though and he should be in as many games as possible.

 

[Deleted member 4028]

Returns is a DK game that has bad controls and mostly rehashed worlds and music. Also you can't play with Diddy unless it's multiplayer, and Dixie, arguably the best character, isn't even in the game.

I'm very happy for people who liked it, but it's not exactly a modern classic lol

 

[Leo]

And I didn't even get to the terrible art direction and enemy designs

 

[Deleted member 4028]

The worlds are the best part. You get a wonderful progression that is completely absent from Tropical Freeze. The music is imo pretty bland but it has tons of minecart and rocket barrel levels along with the extra difficult special levels which is what Retro Studios excels at (carried over from Metroid Prime 3 morph ball segments to an extent). I think lack of Diddy is a huge positive, although he's still a little too present for my tastes.

It not a modern classic because it came out like 12 years ago

The progression is I think an underrated/overlooked part of it. In DKTF, the worlds are completely separate islands, but in DKCR everything feels part of this one huge island. That feeling of making your way to the top of the island is just so much cooler to me than launching to 6 totally separate islands.

Also, yeah I love the worlds in DKCR. Maybe they're similar to the worlds of DKC1, but I love these environments in the first place. The jungle, the beach, etc, they're places I'd like to visit irl. I feel like people always say DK needs to be dark/moody, but the beautiful nature environments are what draw me to the series, and DKCR has a ton of those.

 

[Brock Reiher]

The progression is I think an underrated/overlooked part of it. In DKTF, the worlds are completely separate islands, but in DKCR everything feels part of this one huge island. That feeling of making your way to the top of the island is just so much cooler to me than launching to 6 totally separate islands.

Also, yeah I love the worlds in DKCR. Maybe they're similar to the worlds of DKC1, but I love these environments in the first place. The jungle, the beach, etc, they're places I'd like to visit irl. I feel like people always say DK needs to be dark/moody, but the beautiful nature environments are what draw me to the series, and DKCR has a ton of those.

Not surprising that the most exciting part of Tropical Freeze is when you return to the island

 

[Deleted member 4028]

And I didn't even get to the terrible art direction and enemy designs

That's fine, my response would still just be the same gif, lol

 

[Deleted member 4028]

Not surprising that the most exciting part of Tropical Freeze is when you return to the island

I guess I'd disagree there, because my favorite worlds of TF were Bright Savannah and Juicy Jungle, also really liked Lost Mangroves. I like DK Island in general, but I'm not a huge fan of ice worlds. I wouldn't say it's a bad world, just with all the snow/ice not really my thing.