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Pre-Release Sonic Frontiers - Pre-release Discussion Thread (UPDATE: new overview trailer, releasing November 8th)

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Yoshifan31 said:
You’re right but even then I feel like those games still looked like they came from the same series. They are also certainly more visually unique than… this. It’s just that the whole open world/BOTW of ____ trend is a pet peeve of mine and the fact that iconic series are chasing these trends to the point of having the blandest settings is just… sad

Like, I thought the whole “make Pokemon BOTW to save the series” discourse was insufferable because it considers open world structure as some kind of panacea, they said Game Freak needed to get with the times and make an open world game. Now Arceus was still successful despite being roasted for its graphics because catching Pokemon is a winning formula. It made sense in terms of game design to make an open world Pokemon game because why not, this series was already one of the most formulaic out there and this kind of structure usually pairs with adventure games or RPGs

Sonic being an open world game with shrines and towers (also there’s supposed to be xp and skill trees) just sounds depressing. The series’ identity and aesthetics are about stuff like being hip, hyperactive, too cool for school, edgy, it’s supposed to be every tween’s dream game. The trend chasing here is just too shameless, it’s like they have no integrity. They could have properly tried to make a good new 3D game that would justify Sonic being a rival to Mario in many different ways. They could have expanded upon whatever 3D game is the most loved (from what I know they never put in the effort to do so). They could have made a crossover adventure with Mario and print tons of money (why do they only meet in the Olympics and Smash). Basically they could have took the time to make a good 3D platformer before totally switching genres and design philosophies. In the end, they opted with these ideas that might as well come from execs or an AI that based their decisions on the amount of clicks BOTW and UE demo videos got, resulting in a game with one of the blandest settings I’ve ever seen. Again, even if the game turns out fun, it’s just disheartening to see games settling with sparse landscapes, the exact same open world gameplay loop and overall bland aesthetic choices. It makes trend chasing seem a lot more shameless and discussion about games way more cynical, which is pretty boring. It’s not cool when a new game shows its setting and most people can just sum it up by saying it looks like stock assets or discount BOTW, especially when the series is known to be everything but bland. Games can be way more interesting and distinct from one another
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I hard disagree that Shadow and 06 look like Sonic games, but other than that, I agree with a lot of your post. I wasn't really defending Frontiers. Trust me, I'm not at all happy with what we're seeing here. I was disagreeing with BotW having a negative impact on the industry - or at least that the negative things to come from it are unique to BotW.

I can agree that the push to make everything open world is obnoxious. But that was going on before BotW. Even though I'm a big RPG guy, I also agree that it's obnoxious to shove RPG mechanics into everything but again that was going on before BotW. However, I think there's a fundamental difference between this and your pokemon example. People were asking for open world Pokemon, but no one was asking for this from Sonic. Sega just did this on their own.

Pokemon makes more sense. The original concept came from the creator's experience as a kid exploring the outdoors and collecting bugs so exploration and looking around for things was always part of the DNA. While the cries to make everything open world can be obnoxious, I think it makes sense why some series get it more than others. Zelda itself was in the same position after Skyward Sword. People said Nintendo was behind the times and they lost focus on what the series was originally about so they reacted by bringing out BotW. The same thing people are doing now for Pokemon is what people were doing for Zelda before BotW. But Sega just did this with no one asking. While that Sonic Utopia fan game is a popular showcase of momentum physics in 3D, everyone criticizes it for the large aimless level design.

And while it's nice to think they could have just made a really good Sonic game building on its own identity, history shows that even if BotW never exited, they probably would've just copied something else. I believe Shadow the Hedgehog is every bit as shameless as this and an absolute embarrassment for the series.

But yea, trend-chasing and homogenization is a huge problem in the industry and something I'm not happy to see. It's an unfortunate side-effect of how expensive and labor-intensive modern game development is. And there will also always be those who chase something popular and fail. If it wasn't BotW it would be something else. Hell, now there are people saying BotW was actually never good and Elden Ring is how you actually do open world so BotW2 should be delayed so they learn from it lol. And this isn't to deter you from making that thread, I'd be interested to see the different responses if you did.
 
One thing about this gameplay preview is that lack of energy. That not only applies to the gameplay but the environment and music as well. Sonic should be feel like summer vacation condensed into videogame form. I don't think big grassy fields and piano music suite the Sonic vibe well. The island should be tropical with a more up tempo sound in the background. The Sonic games have been subtle. They are always in your face. That's been part of the core design of Sonic since the beginning. Mario Sunshine has more Sonic flare than what was shown here. Take the areas from New Pokemon Snap, make them open world, and place Sonic in them. That's the vibe I should be getting from an open world Sonic.

There is still plenty more to be revealed I'm sure. But I'm not liking the tone that this first (and so far only) area that we have seen.
 
HockeyBird said:
One thing about this gameplay preview is that lack of energy. That not only applies to the gameplay but the environment and music as well. Sonic should be feel like summer vacation condensed into videogame form. I don't think big grassy fields and piano music suite the Sonic vibe well. The island should be tropical with a more up tempo sound in the background. The Sonic games have been subtle. They are always in your face. That's been part of the core design of Sonic since the beginning. Mario Sunshine has more Sonic flare than what was shown here. Take the areas from New Pokemon Snap, make them open world, and place Sonic in them. That's the vibe I should be getting from an open world Sonic.

There is still plenty more to be revealed I'm sure. But I'm not liking the tone that this first (and so far only) area that we have seen.
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I agree. I’ve watched it three times now and each time it gets more and more boring. It’s like the game is designed to put you to sleep.
 
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I actually kinda like the visual style and the open world playground.
The near absence of enemies is a bit weird, and it still needs some optimization, but as it's a holiday game there's still time for that.
While I am far from sold, I am cautiously interested for the moment.

I am particularly curious to see how it runs on Switch.
Considering the likes of Witcher 3, Dying Light, Hellblade, etc it doesn't look like anything the hardware couldn't handle, the only question is whether they will put in the necessary effort and resources, which they really should given Sonic's history of selling well on Nintendo.
 
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Another thing with the homogenization is video game UI is so passive and uninteresting nowadays in a lot of these games. I get they don't want it to be intrusive but I'll remember a snappy and colorful UI way more.

persona5-ui.gif
 
Mekanos said:
Another thing with the homogenization is video game UI is so passive and uninteresting nowadays in a lot of these games. I get they don't want it to be intrusive but I'll remember a snappy and colorful UI way more.

persona5-ui.gif
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Your wish is granted now all games will use Monolith’s Soft UI!
 
Mekanos said:
Another thing with the homogenization is video game UI is so passive and uninteresting nowadays in a lot of these games. I get they don't want it to be intrusive but I'll remember a snappy and colorful UI way more.

persona5-ui.gif
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Fuck that's cool
 
U guys have such high hopes toward Sonic lol.

Sonic Team is like the worst dev team of such IP. Their failure has been huge amount of number there. If Sonic is not that powerful IP, it would have been buried deep underground there.
 
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Boy, that sure was...underwhelming! They're definitely not off to a super inspiring start here. Probably should have stared off with a trailer of some sort that showed off a bit of story (even a crumb of story), at least two different environments, and some gameplay mechanics. Then spend the rest of the month doing deep dives into the various elements.

Also, did you guys see that slowpaced light panel puzzle? Why is that here?
 
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It really does look like one of those ambitious fan projects made in Unity. It could be something beautiful if given enough time, which is why I don't want to see a release date anytime soon.

I do have to agree that it doesn't feel very Sonic-y in terms of vibes, when I think of Sonic I think of bright colours and groovy OSTs.
 
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I know we haven't seen anything that was particularly impressive, but I can't say I feel this doomposting I'm seeing all over the net is warranted, especially since we know this is only one aspect of the game.
 
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That trailer had like zero energy. Oh well, good thing I'm setting my expectations low.
 
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Reminder of all the provably legit leaks we've seen for this game so far, to give a better picture than that really bad "gameplay premiere" does.

Frontiers.png


Sucks that the Cyberspace stages sound like the most promising part of the game, since I really wanted the boost to be done and retired.
 
SEGA should just disband sonic team at this point and let another team handle Sonic. It's clear they have no idea what to do.
 
Everything in this trailer seemed so generic to me and lacking any personality, I understand people that care more for sonic than me says it is on brand, but as someone that only knows 90s Sonic, if someone showed me that world, enemies and art style and asked me what game I think that belongs to, Sonic would never cross my mind as an option.
Anyway, hope it is a good game, Sonic fans deserve it.
 
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I saw Sonic 2 recently and it was a cute, chaotic ride that made me want to play a Sonic game again. This is like the inverse mood.

Is Adventure on Gamecube worth playing?
 
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EtherPenguin said:
People were asking for open world Pokemon, but no one was asking for this from Sonic. Sega just did this on their own.
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Genuine question; what ARE Sonic fans asking for aside from an unambiguously good game?

Between Project 06 and Sonic Utopia, I know Sonic in 3D can work. I mean it worked in the early 2000’s with Adventure and Adventure 2. And conceptually this DOES have my interest…but this is supposed to release THIS YEAR? How? It doesn’t look close to finished.

Sonic Team has to be the worst dev group out there, but Sega doesn’t help because they don’t give them nearly enough time and resources. Big Red Button had the same problem with Sonic Boom. Yes the hardware was tough to develop for but Sega insisted on getting it out the door.

Chasing trends is a problem industry-wide, I agree. But if having a template means games like this get done faster and have a streamlined goal, I’m not as sour on it as long as the game is good. The problem is, nobody knows what to do with Sonic at this point aside from Tyson Heese. So I think the open-world thing was just another thing they’re throwing at the wall to see if it sticks. It won’t, much like Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom didn’t, because they don’t give these projects nearly enough time.
 
Maybe im the problem, but it looks "fine"?
With zelda, how an open world would work and feel was imediatly clear to me, while you had a ton of people , from the first trailer on, screaming "to barren, nothing to do".

I dont know how this will work. I dont find the artstyle particularly expressive, but also not bad. somewhat bland maybe.
Movement? looked fine, cant say without a controller.
If the movement feels fun, i could see the overworld stuff being chill running and collecting.

They clearly are strugling to get the marketing right.
Im worried about the switch performance.

Im cautiously optimistic/curious that people are hating a little to much on the game, but we will see.
 
Christo750 said:
Genuine question; what ARE Sonic fans asking for aside from an unambiguously good game?
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For me, honestly, I've been begging for a new Sonic Adventure for a decade. Big, open hub areas to explore, with light puzzles to solve to open up to linear action stages. And after playing Xenoblade X and BotW I dreamed of running around terrain like that at speed as Sonic, searching for little things to do and find.

So literally, this. This game is what I've been asking for. Its why it trips me out a bit every time I see a comment that they're copying BotW or chasing trends. Like, I'll admit it they're taking inspiration in the execution, but at the base it looks they're just doing a more modern take on Sonic Adventure. This format isn't new to the series, it's just being brought up to modern expectations.

Or at least they're trying to.
 
Christo750 said:
Genuine question; what ARE Sonic fans asking for aside from an unambiguously good game?
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the issue is that there are many things, a lot contradictory. but all just want a good game. not a game with caveats. they'll even take a good game that doesn't exactly do what they asked for, as they have before. but so many times, ST has hints of greatness, but the asterisks rear their heads
 
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I’ve played Phantasy Star Online 2. and even on xbox series x, it couldn’t run at 60 fps and be in 4k. I had to sacrifise the resolution to get a decent framerate.

And this game looks a lot closer to Phantasy Star Online 2 NG than Botw or hire that man ue4 demo.
 
Tailzo said:
I’ve played Phantasy Star Online 2. and even on xbox series x, it couldn’t run at 60 fps and be in 4k. I had to sacrifise the resolution to get a decent framerate.

And this game looks a lot closer to Phantasy Star Online 2 NG than Botw or hire that man ue4 demo.
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they're probably reusing a lot of assets from across the Hedgehog games. someone pointed out that they're reusing Sakura Wars assets on another forum.

wouldn't be surprised if some Phantasy Star staff is on this
 
ILikeFeet said:
they're probably reusing a lot of assets from across the Hedgehog games. someone pointed out that they're reusing Sakura Wars assets on another forum.

wouldn't be surprised if some Phantasy Star staff is on this
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Yeah, and I think that is a much bigger reason for the gane looking like this, than copying botw or hire this man.

I just don’t think Sega has the money to have a 500+ team work for 5 years on a Sonic game. They have to recycle. Just look at the Yakuza games.
 
Christo750 said:
Genuine question; what ARE Sonic fans asking for aside from an unambiguously good game?

Between Project 06 and Sonic Utopia, I know Sonic in 3D can work. I mean it worked in the early 2000’s with Adventure and Adventure 2. And conceptually this DOES have my interest…but this is supposed to release THIS YEAR? How? It doesn’t look close to finished.

Sonic Team has to be the worst dev group out there, but Sega doesn’t help because they don’t give them nearly enough time and resources. Big Red Button had the same problem with Sonic Boom. Yes the hardware was tough to develop for but Sega insisted on getting it out the door.

Chasing trends is a problem industry-wide, I agree. But if having a template means games like this get done faster and have a streamlined goal, I’m not as sour on it as long as the game is good. The problem is, nobody knows what to do with Sonic at this point aside from Tyson Heese. So I think the open-world thing was just another thing they’re throwing at the wall to see if it sticks. It won’t, much like Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom didn’t, because they don’t give these projects nearly enough time.
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Well, that title goes to Arzest. Just look at their last big game. Or really their ENTIRE catalogue as a whole.
 
Tailzo said:
Yeah, and I think that is a much bigger reason for the gane looking like this, than copying botw or hire this man.

I just don’t think Sega has the money to have a 500+ team work for 5 years on a Sonic game. They have to recycle. Just look at the Yakuza games.
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Yakuza is a yearly franchise so recycling a lot is expected, this game has had the longest development cycle of any Sega game in decades since they left the AAA market in the 00s that’s why expectations were a lot higher.
 
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I'm nervous about the cyberspace stages. I feel like they're going to take the sonic colors bonus stage / zelda shrine approach and build them all off the same level-maker toolkit... when part of what makes boost so thrilling is the cinematic nature of them. I understand that's the same reason those games aren't financially viable, but...
 
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ILikeFeet said:
they're probably reusing a lot of assets from across the Hedgehog games. someone pointed out that they're reusing Sakura Wars assets on another forum.

wouldn't be surprised if some Phantasy Star staff is on this
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oh? what kind of assets?
 
Regardless of everything telling me I shouldn't, I still want this lol

Alright @Brock Reiher it's your time to shine– convince me to buy sonic forces after five years of hovering my finger over the purchase button

every time I get close I stop myself with a distraction, the latest being unleashed + generations BC on Xbox
 
ILikeFeet said:
I think it was audio assets. but I wouldn't put it past them to use retextured assets as well. it's economical to do so
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It's reassuring to know that this engine was used for some solid open world games prior, at least this won't be an arceus situation lol
 
My thoughts:

1) After god knows how many years, Sonic Team still can't get Modern Sonic to lean forward into his run properly, or lean either side when turning while running. The sense of momentum is still whack: What I don't understand is that Nintendo got this right first time with Mario 64. Why can't Sega get Sonic to just look right while he's moving?

2) I get what they're going for with the open world, but as with a lot of Modern Sonic, too much of the action is literally or figuratively on rails: Bumpers directing you into boost pads, jumps that connect one rail to another. Too much of the action in that trailer is just Sonic being directed from one segment to the next in an automated manner.

3) They should have gone for a more stylised look for the world. I get that they want to for an 'epic' style, but as has been said before, it looks to much like an amateur asset demo.
 
Nothing from that hands on video looks remotely interesting or fun to be honest. They built an standard open world and threw Sonic inside without even questioning if that made any sense. The fact that all those floating structures, special surfaces and floating rails exist to accomodate Sonic movement, just proves the world could be from any other game and was not designed with a gameplay purpose in mind, just under the brief request by someone of creating a "big and epic looking open world".
 
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totofogo said:
Regardless of everything telling me I shouldn't, I still want this lol

Alright @Brock Reiher it's your time to shine– convince me to buy sonic forces after five years of hovering my finger over the purchase button

every time I get close I stop myself with a distraction, the latest being unleashed + generations BC on Xbox
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Hm I would honestly try to get it at a discount. But if you pull the trigger you will get a game that will shock and amaze your throughout its 2-3 hour run. You gotta be able to have fun with it though. Also the sound effects for when you immediately explode 20 robots are good.
 
totofogo said:
It's reassuring to know that this engine was used for some solid open world games prior, at least this won't be an arceus situation lol
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Legends was a necessary growing pain. and even that offered decent level design.

I would hope that Sega refers to their PSO staff for design tips. but even if they did, this video didn't show that off. hope tomorrow's video salvages some goodwill
 
ILikeFeet said:
Legends was a necessary growing pain. and even that offered decent level design.

I would hope that Sega refers to their PSO staff for design tips. but even if they did, this video didn't show that off. hope tomorrow's video salvages some goodwill
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Oh absolutely - I was talking specifically about technical ability not the game itself. I adored Legends.

Brock Reiher said:
Hm I would honestly try to get it at a discount. But if you pull the trigger you will get a game that will shock and amaze your throughout its 2-3 hour run. You gotta be able to have fun with it though. Also the sound effects for when you immediately explode 20 robots are good.
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MSRP is down to 20 and lowest historical price is 10 so I'll wait for a 50% off sale at least!
 
Christo750 said:
Genuine question; what ARE Sonic fans asking for aside from an unambiguously good game?
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The fanbase is so splintered at this point I don't think it's possible to please everyone anymore. Every style has its fans and each of those styles have fundamentally different design philosophies especially between classic physics based platforming versus modern boost style. Some group will inevitably feel left behind by whatever choice Sega makes.

I try to avoid calling the group themselves bad devs or lazy devs. A lot of the problems are likely due to management and just being exhausted with the series. There's been a revolving door of developers working on these games for a while now. A lot who worked on Unleashed, Colors, and Generation moved onto Nintendo. A cutscene artist for those three games is now a writer on the Xenoblade series for example.

While I felt the poster I was responding to had valid concerns about homogenization, for myself the open world in and of itself is not really my problem with the game. More so how they're using - or rather not making use of - that world, and the automation that's so ingrained in the design of Sonic platforming at this point. I don't mind Sonic trying new things and seeing how it works, but when they do that, they should commit to it. In the footage we saw, they don't have much interest in having Sonic interact with that world. When this boy first came on to the scene he was rolling into ball to gain speed on slopey green hills, now he only knows how to interact with grind rails and get thrown about by spring and dash panels.
 
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