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Deleted member 2181
Guest
I interpreted it to mean that there is a minimum time between attacks that can't be gamed with stutter stepping.
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Pre-Release Xenoblade Chronicles 3: Pre-release Discussion Thread (Spoilers from leaks/early copies NOT allowed)
- Thread starter Momo
- Start date
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EtherPenguin
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I guess that wouldn't be too bad. I just don't really think it was necessary to 'fix' it considering half your arts being cooldown based already sorted out the balancing issues. It would've also helped to tear through enemy decoys faster sense that status is back.
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
stutterstepping was absolutely broken and it's good they fixed it.
D
Deleted member 2551
Guest
But I want to break the game
- Pronouns
- he/him
Don't worry, it's a MonolithSoft title. The game will be broken in at least seven different ways on Day 1
I'm betting on Alexandria's Incursor Class mixed with some other Crit abilities, since crit is always good. You've already got a head start with the first Swordfighter Master Skill
EtherPenguin
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I definitely wasn't a fan of how spammy arts were in 2 and I do wish in general that these games had tighter resource management. But I don't think faster auto attacks with some level of active control on the player's part is entirely an unworkable idea. A lot of elements came together to make 2 breakable.
Oh and I almost forgot, there's that cancel attack bonus charge now so diamond arts may end up still being spammable without it.
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EtherPenguin
Koopa
- Pronouns
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I'm sorry for double posting but I really felt this should be its own post and I spent a good chunk of time putting this together. After the April trailer, I made a graphic of the status effects that could be seen. Between the direct, the previews, and a couple months of tweets, I thought it was about time to make an updated version:
Not only are a bunch of 1's statuses returning but we also have a previously X-exclusive status with Decoy (Gray is totally going to have Ghostwalker), and Nullify Healing which was introduced in 2. Target Lock is what 1 called Lock-On and X and 2 called Taunt. I think Power Charge is the same as X's supercharge and 1's magnum charge effect. Damage Link seems to be an entirely new status, I have no idea what it does. I'm also clueless as to what the Arts Pursuit field effect does. For the half-filled heart buff, my guess is it's either Max HP Up, Heal Counter, or Healing Power Up.
The purplish icon with what looks like 1's aura icon does seem to indicate something like an aura. It has points on both the top and the bottom to show 'auras' can have both positive and negative effects. Characters with this icon also have golden energy swirling around them. You can see Mio cast her buff art in multiplayer's preview. It grants her evasion up at the cost of lowering her attacks. Instead of receiving individual evasion up and attack down icons, she gets the purple status icon. It's safe to assume Heavy Guard's Guard Stance art is the same as it gives the caster both a buff and a debuff.
I think some other art effects we've seen that offer something very unique will also be auras rather than having individual icons for those effects. Maximum Voltage makes it so your attacks can't be blocked and we haven't seen an icon for that effect but I have seen characters in the ogre class get the aura icon a few times. Night Hunt's effects also seem unique and specific enough to be an aura. Night Hunt is a non-damaging buff art so the back attack bonus on it is a buff and not saying it deals more damage from behind.
Let me know if I missed something.
Notable statuses from 1 that we haven't seen returning yet: Debuff Immunity, Paralysis, Ether Defense Up, Slow, Bind, Chill, Confusion
Notable X statuses yet to make a return: Slow Arts, Critical Power Up, Debuff Res Down, Timebomb, Control
Notable 2 statuses yet to make a return: Doom
Not only are a bunch of 1's statuses returning but we also have a previously X-exclusive status with Decoy (Gray is totally going to have Ghostwalker), and Nullify Healing which was introduced in 2. Target Lock is what 1 called Lock-On and X and 2 called Taunt. I think Power Charge is the same as X's supercharge and 1's magnum charge effect. Damage Link seems to be an entirely new status, I have no idea what it does. I'm also clueless as to what the Arts Pursuit field effect does. For the half-filled heart buff, my guess is it's either Max HP Up, Heal Counter, or Healing Power Up.
The purplish icon with what looks like 1's aura icon does seem to indicate something like an aura. It has points on both the top and the bottom to show 'auras' can have both positive and negative effects. Characters with this icon also have golden energy swirling around them. You can see Mio cast her buff art in multiplayer's preview. It grants her evasion up at the cost of lowering her attacks. Instead of receiving individual evasion up and attack down icons, she gets the purple status icon. It's safe to assume Heavy Guard's Guard Stance art is the same as it gives the caster both a buff and a debuff.
I think some other art effects we've seen that offer something very unique will also be auras rather than having individual icons for those effects. Maximum Voltage makes it so your attacks can't be blocked and we haven't seen an icon for that effect but I have seen characters in the ogre class get the aura icon a few times. Night Hunt's effects also seem unique and specific enough to be an aura. Night Hunt is a non-damaging buff art so the back attack bonus on it is a buff and not saying it deals more damage from behind.
Let me know if I missed something.
Notable statuses from 1 that we haven't seen returning yet: Debuff Immunity, Paralysis, Ether Defense Up, Slow, Bind, Chill, Confusion
Notable X statuses yet to make a return: Slow Arts, Critical Power Up, Debuff Res Down, Timebomb, Control
Notable 2 statuses yet to make a return: Doom
- Pronouns
- he/him
Excellent work!
@Momo not sure if you want to threadmark non-official info but getting threadmarks on this and EtherPenguin's other excellent Arts and Skills List might be nice to have. Up to you of course, I can get wanting to keep threadmarks to official information
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Deleted member 2
Guest
Ketwick9844
Octorok
Where are these images are coming from?
So what are y’all’s opinions on some Xenoblade content creators being upset that they didn’t get a review copy?
I’ve seen a few being very upset. While I think it’s smart marketing to have Xenoblade fans hype up the game further. I also don’t think it’ll do much actually,
Since those channels are very Xenoblade focus so of course viewers will see their stuff regardlesss and get the game. Plus, I saw this one person rag on a small channel for getting a review copy which didn’t sit well with me. And these are content creators who are getting payed while playing these games.
I don’t think anyone is entitled to a copy of a video game. You can be upset. But at the end of the day. No one is owed anything.
Thoughts? Avoiding spoliers but seeking music leaks stuff lead me to this little story lol
I’ve seen a few being very upset. While I think it’s smart marketing to have Xenoblade fans hype up the game further. I also don’t think it’ll do much actually,
Since those channels are very Xenoblade focus so of course viewers will see their stuff regardlesss and get the game. Plus, I saw this one person rag on a small channel for getting a review copy which didn’t sit well with me. And these are content creators who are getting payed while playing these games.
I don’t think anyone is entitled to a copy of a video game. You can be upset. But at the end of the day. No one is owed anything.
Thoughts? Avoiding spoliers but seeking music leaks stuff lead me to this little story lol
- Pronouns
- he/him
I can understand where people are getting upset, since there's a lot of value in getting opinions from dedicated series content creators. They'll be giving opinions on matters that a lot of more general audience reviews won't really touch (which is also stuff I'm the most interested, so I'm admittedly a bit biased). Like, a lot of preview and even review information is going to be stuff I sift through (or wait for others here to sift through better than me) to get the info I actually care about.
I do think actually getting upset over it is a bit silly though. Like you said, Nintendo doesn't need to advertise to the audience watching dedicated Xenoblade channels. Even a small channel with a more varied userbase is a more valuable advertising target. Not sure exactly how the process of getting a review code works though, and if Nintendo selects them without input or if channels have to apply to them. If Nintendo got an application from a XC YouTuber and rejected it that would sit poorly with me, honestly, but if it's just them selecting them by themselves (or if said YouTubers didn't apply) then I can see why they didn't get review codes.
the previews
EDIT: from a marketing standpoint, there's no reason for Xenoblade content creators to get copies. that's literally preaching to the choir
ragolliangatan
Tektite
- Pronouns
- He/Him
smacks of entitlement from the content creators tbh- most Xenoblade content creators are pretty niche and don't have particularly high subscriber counts. From a marketing perspective it makes no sense to get it in the hands of creators that are already targetting a market that is already sold on the game.
Procheno
I exist sometimes
- Pronouns
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Lovecatt
Moblin
Does Nintendo even send copies, let alone early ones, to content creators?
Man God
Non Canon™
Very rarely.
Toad King
Moblin
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The main purpose of review copies is for impressions/reviews to come out to convince people to buy the game. If a content creator makes content primarily/exclusively for the game franchise then all the people they would reach are probably already buying the game. I can see why Nintendo prioritizes even smaller people or channels for review copies if they're able to reach new customers, not pander to existing ones more.
I also saw one of them complain that one of the channel's given a review copy was smaller than them and "some no-name" and that attitude can fuck right off.
I also saw one of them complain that one of the channel's given a review copy was smaller than them and "some no-name" and that attitude can fuck right off.
Yeah. We are talking about the same person. And it really rubbed me the wrong way since it was a very hypocritical statement.
Left a bad impression on me. Especially since it’s the wrong way to go about it. If you get it early. That’s cool but if you don’t. There was no need to say anything or claim you should feel like you deserve it.
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Deleted member 2551
Guest
I unironically want this game to be all about the power of friendship once again.
I want Noah to break the curse and everyone to live with none of the good guys dying.
I want all 3 pairings to be romantic.
Fuck videogame stories about sad dads and depression, give me all the unfiltered optimism and idealism that trumps negativity.
Rex I love you
I want Noah to break the curse and everyone to live with none of the good guys dying.
I want all 3 pairings to be romantic.
Fuck videogame stories about sad dads and depression, give me all the unfiltered optimism and idealism that trumps negativity.
Rex I love you
and all you guys
- Pronouns
- He/Him
We'll beat them
With the power of friendship
- Pronouns
- he/him
The Power of Friendship is not-so-secretly one of my favorite tropes, at least when done well
Luckily it's a Xenoblade game so you better bet we'll be beating them with the power of friendship
Multiverse
Moblin
Considering we’re now discussing Xenoblade content creators/YouTubers/personality is wild to me. None of that existed before 2 came out.
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- Pronouns
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ShadowFox08
Paratroopa
Watching this right now.. Pretty good.
-3 saves and 1 quick save (can be activated manually) vs XB2's one save slot?
-3 difficulty modes and being able to change them anytime is interesting, although I don't know how i feel about this (changing them anytime kinda cheapens it). Accessibility is nice though.
-They don't know the resolution for handheld and docked mode, but handheld is significantly better. Less sharpening than xb2, which helps especially.
-no stutter step. more like xb1 attack
-new guidance system is great
-built in video capture
-almost no quick time events during battle. Probably for the better with 6-7 characters
-main thing for mastering other classes is to bring them to have more arts to choose from (can have 6 arts to choose at max)
-can't common on length of game
-there is an event theater mode. Can press L+R to take photos without HUD
-can switch english and japanese voice acting at anytime
-characters are all well written (main party members)
-no field skill barriers of any kind (within the preview period of the game)
kavesi and agnus arts charge differently. Overtime via autoattacks. Kavesi like xenoblade 1 and agnus like xenoblade 2
-audio mixing isn't the best. Turn up the dialogue or turn down the music.
EtherPenguin
Koopa
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- He/Him
We've seen this on the Japanese website and in the previews but some might've missed it. NPCs have collectapedia cards you can fill out for accessories, experience, and affinity:
I'm not entirely sure what it means by items being collected spontaneously. I think there is something like 2's collection points in some spots because I saw an interactable with the acorn symbol in the overview trailer (at 5:43) so maybe it has to do with that.
Something it doesn't tell you but can be seen in one of the previews is that you can keep turning in items to the same NPCs. Collectapedia cards aren't a one and done deal. You only get the accessory the first time you turn it in, but you can pretty much infinitely farm colony affinity and bonus experience by handing in the same items over and over. In that way, gathering collectibles is always useful.
The other tweet was accessories and the shop, exact same stuff we saw in the direct.
I'm not entirely sure what it means by items being collected spontaneously. I think there is something like 2's collection points in some spots because I saw an interactable with the acorn symbol in the overview trailer (at 5:43) so maybe it has to do with that.
Something it doesn't tell you but can be seen in one of the previews is that you can keep turning in items to the same NPCs. Collectapedia cards aren't a one and done deal. You only get the accessory the first time you turn it in, but you can pretty much infinitely farm colony affinity and bonus experience by handing in the same items over and over. In that way, gathering collectibles is always useful.
The other tweet was accessories and the shop, exact same stuff we saw in the direct.
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Multiverse
Moblin
I was listening to the Tetracast and they mentioned a machine that you can get materials from.
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palemire
bing bong singalong
The power of fiendship
- Pronouns
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I think they just mean that items are collected as you're roaming the world; no need to push a button to grab something you come across.
RennanNT
Bob-omb
I believe it just means that players collects items while exploring even if there's no ! on it, so it's good to check it once in a while.
And this is a great lesson MS seems to have learned. No matter what they add to the game, there will be people who don't like it, that's how taste works, giving alternative ways so they can maxmize their time on what they do like is important.
For the core, skipping cutscenes if you aren't liking the story or that specific scene, easy mode and auto-battle if you don't like the combat, ways to get fast to the next point if you don't like to explore. But it's even more important for non-core mechanics, since people who dislike part of the core are likely not playing it or ready to bear with it. XC1 lacked an alternative for us to build city affinity if we only want the interesting quests or the skill trees, this mechanic could solve it. Other thing is that it seems we can use nopon coins as a replacement in a lot of places, so if there's something like Tiger-Tiger and the player don't like it, they can prioritize the coins spendage on buying poppi parts equivalent, so they can skip it without handicapping themselves.
D
Deleted member 2
Guest
Can't tell, is there a decent hitstop during auto-attacks? That's what I absolutely love about the Aegis Sword, how heavy it felt even without HD Rumble thanks to the glorious hitstop.
only when doing specials. there's a very mild hitstop with regular attacks but it's nothing like XC2. it's less rhythm gamey. though it might just be people playing it more like XC1
Crusters
Koopa
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- He/him
The Revenge plot was a fake story written by Zanza using the power of scientific technology (in the form of a machine that, powered by the conduit, can manipulate matter and energy on an atomic level via nanomachines that saturate the environment. Techno God.), he used this down to the chemicals and electrons in the brains of every being on bionis, literal mind control, and technologically achieved theocratic determination of causality, he used this to write the revenge story, to motivate the one being he could not directly control if he wanted to take over his body to continue to extend his own life as a 'god', to get Shulk, of his own free will, to play HIS part and do what Zanza wanted. (The architect, the failed techno god that gave up, is such an interesting take in a different direction on the same character).
This fake story was running for thousands of years before the events of the games start, up until Zanza successfully managed to get Shulks vessel integrated with full monado use, and took everything he needed from it, being reborn.
The catch is, the fake story, the Pre Established harmony of events had built up considerable calibration error over time (Alvis explains this concept in a cutscene as the party is fleeing from reborn Zanza in the junks), especially after giving Shulk the monado, in the form of a butterfly effect every time shulks free will, deviated from the pre established harmony. Shulks bad visions, are him reading zanzas pre established harmony his good/altered visions, was literally Shulk himself subconsciously writing/editing his own story into existence). Many parts of the story Zanza wrote did not go the way they were supposed to. In particular every time Shulk saved someone Zanza wrote out of the script.... Well, since there was no script written for them past the point they were supposed to die..... It resulted in another free willed agent of chaos, gumming up the works of the pre established harmony.
Zanza recognized his story was not playing out as written, but decided it didn't matter, because he still won and got what he needed from Shulk AND received Meyneths Monado as well, a completely unplanned event. Literally blinded by his own hubris....
This fake story was running for thousands of years before the events of the games start, up until Zanza successfully managed to get Shulks vessel integrated with full monado use, and took everything he needed from it, being reborn.
The catch is, the fake story, the Pre Established harmony of events had built up considerable calibration error over time (Alvis explains this concept in a cutscene as the party is fleeing from reborn Zanza in the junks), especially after giving Shulk the monado, in the form of a butterfly effect every time shulks free will, deviated from the pre established harmony. Shulks bad visions, are him reading zanzas pre established harmony his good/altered visions, was literally Shulk himself subconsciously writing/editing his own story into existence). Many parts of the story Zanza wrote did not go the way they were supposed to. In particular every time Shulk saved someone Zanza wrote out of the script.... Well, since there was no script written for them past the point they were supposed to die..... It resulted in another free willed agent of chaos, gumming up the works of the pre established harmony.
Zanza recognized his story was not playing out as written, but decided it didn't matter, because he still won and got what he needed from Shulk AND received Meyneths Monado as well, a completely unplanned event. Literally blinded by his own hubris....
- Pronouns
- he/him
I mean, cool and all, but this is a really fancy way of saying "no it's not a revenge plot it's a revenge plot written by god but people started messing up b the script and also I guess we have to kill god now"
Like, it doesn't matter if there's a neat framing device and cool technobabble for the boring revenge plot, it's still a boring revenge plot.
Crusters
Koopa
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- He/him
I'm not saying its not a revenge plot, I'm it saying it was literally a revenge plot, literally written by an in game character as the author. The entire world was written by this character to play out the revenge plot, written specifically for Shulk. Shulks life and entire existence.... And the thousands of years leading up to his life.... Was basically a videogame made real.
The revenge plot was cancelled by the person who was supposed to perform it. The actual story isn't about the revenge plot, the revenge plot is just a tool used by an in game character. The actual story concept, is death of the author. Made literal. Because you kill him.
You would have to try pretty hard to try and claim that's a cliched and boring use of the concept it turned completely on it's head.
The revenge plot was cancelled by the person who was supposed to perform it. The actual story isn't about the revenge plot, the revenge plot is just a tool used by an in game character. The actual story concept, is death of the author. Made literal. Because you kill him.
You would have to try pretty hard to try and claim that's a cliched and boring use of the concept it turned completely on it's head.
- Pronouns
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But what difference does it make, in the end, beyond semantics? In practice, it's a revenge plot that changes into a standard JRPG "kill god" plot. Yes, technically, there's a lot more to it, and I get how that can be interesting to people. In terms of how the story actually plays out and feels? It's pretty damn standard.
Crusters
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/him
There is no revenge against Zanza. Shulk actually pities Zanza, but knows he has to go, Shulk, and the entire parties motivation had gone well beyond notions like revenge. It's a struggle for the right to exist, to even simply have the right to choose the simplest of choices, there is a lot on the line, but there is no revenge, the story at this point is not about justice for events past, but for the right to a future.
In the way the story plays out and feels, if you recognize what is happening, it's a complete and absolute lampshade of the trope, which I don't think can be reconciled with the term standard. To the extent that replaying the game, with the knowledge you didnt get until the end, highlights all the times this was actually directly shown and foreshadowed in the story, as early as colony 9, something that most people would completely miss, because they were mislead to interpret the story under a false context created by an in game character.
In the way the story plays out and feels, if you recognize what is happening, it's a complete and absolute lampshade of the trope, which I don't think can be reconciled with the term standard. To the extent that replaying the game, with the knowledge you didnt get until the end, highlights all the times this was actually directly shown and foreshadowed in the story, as early as colony 9, something that most people would completely miss, because they were mislead to interpret the story under a false context created by an in game character.
OpaqueReptile
Rattata
- Pronouns
- He/Him
For me, the early foreshadowing of Shulk talking about the two versions of himself, one of which who's the violent impulse from Zanza, elevates it above just a standard revenge plot. Even by the end of the game, it's a bit murky how much of Shulk's persona is "original" or just a shell for Zanza, or somewhere in between (very on brand for a xeno game). Shulk rejecting his Zanza 'Id' and trying to make peace before everything goes to hell at the mechonis core is some great storytelling.
- Pronouns
- he/him
Yeah, revenge was the wrong term for the Zanza plot. I meant more "kill god" plot, like I edited in. Because yeah, struggle for existence against a malevolent god is a pretty standard JRPG plot. It's also pretty one-note, imo, and I don't think XC1 does it that well.
And maybe the story doesn't feel like a revenge plot at all if you replay it, but I also don't want to replay a game 60+ hours long just to get the "real story". And, based on recollection and the fact that I had already been spoiled on the Zanza twist before playing 1, I also don't think the story feels any different with the knowledge, beyond the foreshadowing of certain elements. Again, even if the revenge plot is just a tool of Zanza, it's still the active plot of the story until more than halfway through its runtime. While there are hints otherwise, it doesn't actually meaningfully change what's going on and how the characters react if you go in with the knowledge of that.
And maybe the story doesn't feel like a revenge plot at all if you replay it, but I also don't want to replay a game 60+ hours long just to get the "real story". And, based on recollection and the fact that I had already been spoiled on the Zanza twist before playing 1, I also don't think the story feels any different with the knowledge, beyond the foreshadowing of certain elements. Again, even if the revenge plot is just a tool of Zanza, it's still the active plot of the story until more than halfway through its runtime. While there are hints otherwise, it doesn't actually meaningfully change what's going on and how the characters react if you go in with the knowledge of that.
Yeah, this is probably one of the more interesting things XC1 does, for me at least. I guess I generally prefer character focused narratives to purely plot-focused ones, and Shulk's struggle with the Zanza parts of him is pretty interesting, when it happens. Which isn't super often, to my recollection, but it's one of the few times XC1 has solid character moments
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Open spoilers in here so I don't think you guys need these tags.
I'll disagree that it feels standard, at least overall. It does feel pretty standard for a while, at least as the beginning motivation, but it changes up a lot. The shift in narrative in XC1 when it moves from "Mechonis is pure evil" to "wait actually while what Egil is doing is wrong, he has a very good reason for it and Bionis was actually kind of the bad guys in the first place" I really liked. It became kind of a shifting look at revenge in general and how grudges form and move over time. Plus the whole Zanza/Shulk stuff, too.
But as per your last comment I think I'm more of a "plot" guy than a "character" guy, at least in general. I obviously love both, but I think if I have to choose to have one stronger than the other I usually go with plot.
Crusters
Koopa
- Pronouns
- He/him
Ha, I'm not much for character focused narratives I like them, but they aren't what will pull me in, I'm more interested in big picture stuff, and how well that manages to invest me, that then rubs off on attaching me to the characters.... This halo effect also nabs me with things like great mechanics and engrossing world and progression design.
EtherPenguin
Koopa
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This is random but the more I think about it, I think Maximum Voltage actually makes it so you can't block attacks rather than making your attacks unblockable.
And plot vs character driven are not the words I would use to describe the difference between 1 and 2.
And plot vs character driven are not the words I would use to describe the difference between 1 and 2.
- Pronouns
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Yeah that's probably fair haha
Honestly the second part is what makes it feel a bit more standard, but I realize that's not that common. But I've definitely seen the "actually, the guys you wanted revenge against were really justified the whole time and your side is kinda the baddies here" a couple times before. Though since I played 1 for the first time with DE, XC might be one of the first examples of those chronologically, even if it wasn't the only one (or the best one, imo) by the time I played it
Doesn't it say "Unblockable"? That would be a fairly weird way to phrase it, even though it would make more sense that way if Maximum Voltage is an aura (since those seem to have a drawback)
And interesting about the plot vs character/1 v 2 comparison. It's one I see often and also the main difference that I personally see between the two, so I'm curious what your take on it is.
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- Pronouns
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Oh yeah it's definitely not original by any means. But for whatever reason, at least back in 2012, it really worked for me. Maybe I hadn't played as many games that pulled that yet? Or something about this one made it work better for me personally? I don't really know for sure.
I am really interested in the plot of 3, though. There's just so much they could do with it, wrapping together 1 and 2 and the entire trilogy; I hope they really go all out and we get some truly bonkers nonsense near the end.
EtherPenguin
Koopa
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The talent art for Eunie's ouroboros also has unblockable as one of the effects. If you look at the Japanese footage, that effect in Eunie's ouroboros talent art literally translates to something like 'Guard Seal'. It's the exact same word that I chose to translate as Nullify Blocking in my chart because that seemed more in line with how 2's localization named similar stuff. But now I'm thinking Unblockable is actually the localized name for that Guard Seal status. I also think yumsmith has an art that inflicts it. Likely, Annul Guard seen on another ouroboros art is for an attack to bypass block rate.
I find 1 vs 2 stuff tiring and I don't enjoy talking story as much as gameplay because of how personal one's connection to a story can be so I won't go into this too much. 1 came into my life at a time where what it means to me is something I can't argue rationally.
But 2 strikes me as a lot heavier on plot with all the politics between nations and the world feeling more fleshed out because of it. People often say chapter 4 is useless or an example of the narrative getting sidetracked. Really, Bana's connection to torna and the mass manufacturing of artificial blades is pretty important and what people are responding poorly to I think is that it doesn't feel character motivated. It eventually gets to expand on a character in which they retell Maria Balthazaar's story with Tora, but that wasn't the impetus for the party going to the factory in the first place.
I'm not interested in discussing the merits of using a revenge plot for a narrative device, but isn't revenge inherently a character driven motivation? Much of 1's story feels driven by Shulk's desires. He wants revenge on the mechon and when he reaches a point where he sees revenge as futile and only continuing a cycle of violence - his enemy changes to an entity who looks and sounds just like him and seeks to continue a cycle of violence. He conquers his own bloodthirst by turning to face what is essentially his own dark side making up the third act.
Though in general, I don't find plot vs character to be all that useful because very few stories actually weigh that heavily on one side. It's always muddied and hard to separate. And it gets even more complicated when you consider some people see a difference between plot vs story on top of that. The best stories do both well and both 1 and 2 play with both at different times through their respective stories.
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