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Discussion Xenoblade 3 - DLC #4 Trailer - Release April 25th

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NabiscoFelt said:
Yeah I do think it depends on the game what system is best - I tend to like both systems so long as they're well implemented, though imo XC3 is not a great example of a job system. Monolith has experience with unique roles though so I'm hopeful for FR's system

The system you describe kinda reminds me of DQ XI, actually. Each character there has 3-4 skill tree branches focused on a weapon or magic type. There's some overlap between some characters but overall everyone feels pretty unique while still having some build variety
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DQXI is great. Having more than one weapon per character but still not letting them access all weapons is a nice middle ground. 8's system is a little similar, you don't pick nodes in a tree though, you just select between four categories to invest in and receive skills from that category linearly. Monolith's own Xenosaga 3 is a bit like that too except there are only two skill paths to go down. Like you said, there's still overlap because most skills are tied weapons (Sylvando has just about all the same knife skills as Erik) and there's a universal list of spells that all characters and monsters pull from. There's still some unique stuff like Erik's afterimage clone gimmick but the system I would employ would try to make all moves unique to the character. So two mage characters might both have access to a healing tree but they would go about healing in different ways like:

Character A's Wind Seer tree (traditional healer):
Cleanse - Heals one ally for a small amount and removes the most recently inflicted status ailment. Costs 3MP.
Bond - Mark an ally to receive healing whenever another ally is healed. Usable once per battle.
Gale Force - Deals weak wind elemental magic damage. Blows away status buffs. Costs 5MP.
Spring Breeze - (Special) Heals all allies for a large amount and boosts evasion for five rounds. Consumes Special Gauge.
Chain Healing - (Passive) Healing an ally with a non-special move fills the special gauge by 25%.

Character B's Alchemist tree (drain healing w/ mana restoration):
Leech Seed - Drain HP from the afflicted enemy and share it with the party. Lasts five rounds. Costs 2MP.
Hypnosis - Inflict sleep on a group of enemies. Costs 5MP.
Essence Stream - Grants 3MP to allies (excluding self) and boosts their magic power for one turn. Costs 3MP.
Devour - (Special) Deals strong dark elemental magic damage. Restores HP and MP to the party if killing a leech seeded enemy with this move.
Drain Touch - (Passive) Normal attacks absorb 1MP.

Obviously, they would have more than that per tree, but you get the idea. The main thing is coming up with a theme to base the tree around and then the other two trees would need to have abilities that synergize with the first tree and each other to make grabbing stuff from multiple trees enticing while also having their own themes. I'm probably straying off topic though.
 
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I might want to finish the main game first but this looks great. I'm not sure how close I got to the end but I fell off after getting the boat and exploring the open sea area for a while.
 
EtherPenguin said:
It's always tricky to balance in RPGs between characters having their own identities vs. the genre's trademark customizability. When I was younger, I was a staunch believer in characters' identities coming out in their movesets like Chrono Trigger, FF4, and Xenoblade 1 but also couldn't deny the fun of mixing and matching job systems like FF5. Then I went through a phase where I was like "customization is the blood and soul of RPGs, everything must be customizable!" but deep down I kept liking characters having their own identities even if I didn't want to admit it. End of the day I don't think there's a one size fits all solution and it's just what makes different games feel like different games.

But the extremes on either end do bother me. I've come to not have much love for the "you can learn every skill in the game!" thing that the original FF12 or Divinity Origin Sin did. But I also think Torna and even my beloved Chrono Trigger go too far with not having enough stuff to tinker with. Xenoblade 3 base game definitely feels like it strays toward the former. I have some gripes about the class system I never expressed here. I was going to do a massive write up on the story and gameplay when I finished but ultimately decided it was a waste of energy.

But what bothered me with the base game is stuff like how Mondo is supposed to be important to Taion and Taion's whole identity and aesthetic of a debuffing origami wizard seemed so cool to me in the prerelease phase but there's no way to grow or expand the identity in the game. The moment you're given control over Taion you already have all the arts and skills his class will ever learn and then it's already obsolete and will never be used on Taion again as early as Millick Meadows. At the same time, I don't see how they could go back to a more xc1 approach after X and 2.

I know xc1's lack of customization often gets dunked on by X and 2 fans, and as an xc1 fanboy sometimes I play into that to try and prove that don't have rose-tinted goggles for 1 but really I'm pretty fine with its level of customization. Characters learn set arts but skill links and how open-ended the equipment system could feel with gems did a lot of heavy lifting. And characters learned twice as many arts than they could take into battle so even if you couldn't make Reyn a dedicated healer you still had some choices like: do I want Reyn to focus on burst damage with Berserk+Magnum Charge+Sword Drive or do I need something tankier with a focus on damage mitigation with Anchor Chain+Aura Burst+the Dive Sobat combo? Looking at the skill trees for Future Redeemed, it does seem like it's only going to be six Arts and four Skills per character and I'm worried it'll be more like Torna than xc1. The union combos look promising though.

Lately, I've been thinking if I were to make an RPG, I'd probably have set classes and weapons for the characters but have something like Diablo 2's skill tree where there are three trees per character that represent three main playstyle directions that character can go down and of course, you can mix and match between the three trees. I mean I've tried to make an RPG. I still kind of want to, I need there to be more time in a day lol.
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Regarding Xenoblade 1's customization, you really hit it with the art selection, and it complemented the party selection in a nice way. Mixing different party members together made different arts more/less critical to have, allowing the same characters to take on different feels pretty easily without feeling like you weren't playing optimally. Thinking about how they'd string together chain attacks (I'm still a sucker for the OG system lol) was the icing on the cake.

As for 3, I kinda agree that there's too much... finality to class growth with the system. Ascension quests helped a little, but there really should've been more incentives to revisit classes imo, or less incentive to keep switching. I did appreciate how I was constantly forced into finding new strategies, but it was always bittersweet to find something amazing just to realize I was a few class levels away from ruining the whole thing.

There were a few neat 'ah-ha' moments, like rushing Noah to Capable Hands late game, but if you did enough side stuff you were kinda always ahead on the master arts and skills you actually wanted.

There are the Blade Upgrades to steer you back to base classes if you want, but it's one of the most gated things in the game, especially if you want them all. The buffs from them are also kinda just okay.
 
Psyborg said:
I might want to finish the main game first but this looks great. I'm not sure how close I got to the end but I fell off after getting the boat and exploring the open sea area for a while.
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If you just got the boat then I think that puts you about 2/3rds of the way. The chapter you're on now ends with what a lot consider one of the biggest story moments. I would recommend at least finishing this chapter if you have the time.

@Jersh I can't believe I forgot to mention party composition in 1, another great element of the first game's customization that often gets overlooked. When I revisited the game last year, I tried to keep affinity even between all members and it led me to try out some weird combinations and parties that really shouldn't work but if you know the systems well enough you can find a way to make them work. I managed to beat Lorithia slightly underleveled with a Melia + Riki + Shulk party. Melia's ether defense was stacked to the high heavens.
 
No, Dirk isn't Mythra's kid. That "theory" is even more stupid than "Cammuravi is Pyra's son" theory. That at least had fire power connection.
 
EtherPenguin said:
Melia + Riki + Shulk party. Melia's ether defense was stacked to the high heavens.
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It's honestly not a bad composition at all for that fight. Melia and Riki are both recommended due to physical defense on the enemy. Shulk isn't amazing for it, but if you're the one controlling him he can do enough in that fight to make it all work.
 
Surely if Shulk's statue represents a young girl (though not related by blood) he took under his wing, Rex's statue must represent his other kid, maybe...

... though he already has too many family members in this.

Rex getting jiggy with it will end up saving the universes.
 
Mr.Fletcher said:
Surely if Shulk's statue represents a young girl (though not related by blood) he took under his wing, Rex's statue must represent his other kid, maybe...

... though he already has too many family members in this.

Rex getting jiggy with it will end up saving the universes.
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I've seen some speculate that the dark-haired City girl with a lance might be Reid's founder/Shulk's mentee. Her name is Panacea according to the official subtitles on the trailer and people think she might be Reyn and Sharla's daughter that Shulk adopted. I also thought the head of her lance looked kind of like Reyn's default gunlance.

I think I might know who Cassini is or at least her name based on some stuff in the datamine.
When Masha's image was found in the second wave's datamine, it was labeled Dillon. In the last datamine, there was found what looked to be some achievement list (perhaps tied to community?). It's how some of us already knew community was returning. But one of the achievements mentions an NPC named Dillon. Masha was the leader of Cassini in the present, so I think it's safe to say Dillon was her ancestor and possibly Rex's mentee. Her name being on Masha's image makes me think she'll use the same model as Masha like Hugo used Nial's.
 
FuVxpt1WIAMYZHs.jpg


This is how I feel
 
EtherPenguin said:
I've seen some speculate that the dark-haired City girl with a lance might be Reid's founder/Shulk's mentee. Her name is Panacea according to the official subtitles on the trailer and people think she might be Reyn and Sharla's daughter that Shulk adopted. I also thought the head of her lance looked kind of like Reyn's default gunlance.

I think I might know who Cassini is or at least her name based on some stuff in the datamine.
When Masha's image was found in the second wave's datamine, it was labeled Dillon. In the last datamine, there was found what looked to be some achievement list (perhaps tied to community?). It's how some of us already knew community was returning. But one of the achievements mentions an NPC named Dillon. Masha was the leader of Cassini in the present, so I think it's safe to say Dillon was her ancestor and possibly Rex's mentee. Her name being on Masha's image makes me think she'll use the same model as Masha like Hugo used Nial's.
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Hmmm that’s interesting. I have followed the leaks but not dug into the nooks and crannies.

Very intrigued to see how it’s all going to play out. It feels like the game/DLC has a lot to do and it’s shaping up to be more ambitious than I thought.

The introduction of A, the final shot of Na’El, the trinity core processor shot, the Alvis scene, establishing the Founders and so on. There’s a lot there.

I know we’ve all speculated on the story of this DLC for months, but I felt like this would be more a prequel to XC3, than continuation of XC/XC2.

Of course, I haven’t played it and there’s nothing to say it can‘t be both, but it feels like they’re dragging in more lore stuff from the first games than I expected.

I also didn’t expect the playable cast to be quite so XC/XC2 focused. I know I probably should of done... but I’m just kind of surprised by it all.
Aleh said:
FuVxpt1WIAMYZHs.jpg


This is how I feel
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Where’s the reincarnation of Malos? Bring back Menkin.
 
Mr.Fletcher said:
Surely if Shulk's statue represents a young girl (though not related by blood) he took under his wing, Rex's statue must represent his other kid, maybe...

... though he already has too many family members in this.

Rex getting jiggy with it will end up saving the universes.
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The City Founders are, from what we know, at least 3/6 Rex descendants. And one of the other 3 is someone Rex closely mentored

At this rate Mythra's kid will be the 7th Founder
 
Aleh said:
I want A to be Rex and Alvis’s daughter. Don’t ask me how
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Full name, Azurda the second.

NabiscoFelt said:
The City Founders are, from what we know, at least 3/6 Rex descendants. And one of the other 3 is someone Rex closely mentored

At this rate Mythra's kid will be the 7th Founder
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It is quite funny how well-connected to a lot of different characters Rex is. I never thought my boy would become the epicentre of the Xenoblade universe.
 
Crys could do with some fleshing out. For someone so important to Noah, he feels totally tacked on.

That said, the base game didn’t do anything to make me care about him, so I’m not too bothered either.
 
Mr.Fletcher said:
Crys could do with some fleshing out. For someone so important to Noah, he feels totally tacked on.

That said, the base game didn’t do anything to make me care about him, so I’m not too bothered either.
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He was very important to Noah, so that kept my intrigue afloat. Smiley smiley. The one thing that put me in shocking disbelief about the main game was when you get Noah and Mio's side stories. I can't understand to this day why couldn't they be incorporated elegantly into the main story.
 
Mr.Fletcher said:
Crys could do with some fleshing out. For someone so important to Noah, he feels totally tacked on.

That said, the base game didn’t do anything to make me care about him, so I’m not too bothered either.
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Thank god Noah had N as a foil in Chapter 5, because it seems like Crys was supposed to be that in the last part of the game too but he was so underutilized and that affected Noah’s characterization too
 
Crys was fine for his role in the story. Not everyone needs a super fleshed out backstory or multiple connections.

Phendrift said:
Thank god Noah had N as a foil in Chapter 5, because it seems like Crys was supposed to be that in the last part of the game too but he was so underutilized and that affected Noah’s characterization too
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How'd you get Crys being a Noah foil?

He screamed "old mentor making sure Noah's ready" to me.
 
V_ac said:
Crys was fine for his role in the story. Not everyone needs a super fleshed out backstory or multiple connections.


How'd you get Crys being a Noah foil?

He screamed "old mentor making sure Noah's ready" to me.
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Foil is the wrong word, just someone important to Noah’s development
 
I think the time to flesh out Crys was in the main game. Not that he needed a lot of screen time, but he could of been used more frequently.

If Crys was someone who Noah thought back to fairly often, it would have set the confrontation up between them more nicely. And when Noah did cry, you’d feel a little more invested.

Síriocaz said:
He was very important to Noah, so that kept my intrigue afloat. Smiley smiley. The one thing that put me in shocking disbelief about the main game was when you get Noah and Mio's side stories. I can't understand to this day why couldn't they be incorporated elegantly into the main story.
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I agree with you about the side stories. Mio gets the better of it. It feels like a part of the game story they just called a side story. The snow area is tiny and you have to go past the base to get to your destination. It didn’t need a bow on top.

Noah’s just feels random.
 
I forgot Crys existed until he popped up at the Noah sequence. I was like “oh yeah, this guy”.

I felt more for Vandham then Crys.
 
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Mr.Fletcher said:
I think the time to flesh out Crys was in the main game. Not that he needed a lot of screen time, but he could of been used more frequently.

If Crys was someone who Noah thought back to fairly often, it would have set the confrontation up between them more nicely. And when Noah did cry, you’d feel a little more invested.


I agree with you about the side stories. Mio gets the better of it. It feels like a part of the game story they just called a side story. The snow area is tiny and you have to go past the base to get to your destination. It didn’t need a bow on top.

Noah’s just feels random.
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Yeah, Mio's is better, but when the game says it's a side story, it really means it: it's cheap, rushed and doesn't feel any more impactful than your average Hero quest (which, to be fair, that's exactly what it is). It features the same stock character animations for the cutscenes, Y's hideout is just a small corridor and, well, so is the quest itself.


All of that is a shame because Y sure looked like someone who could've been used more menacingly, and I consider Miyabi to be the unofficial 7th party member.


If you start with those two quests alone, it's your first demonstration that, for some reason, the last stretch of the game didn't receive as much attention as it could have. I think the parts to make a very memorable Chapter 6 are there.
 
The snow area was such a disappointment. Thankfully the DLC seems to also have its own snow area and it’ll probably be way better.
 
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Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I've never been a big fan of hetronormatove next generation stuff. The genealogy of which characters are the children of which other characters isn't interesting to me, and I hope it's not a huge focus in the story.

The founding of the city, and all the Xenoblade lore stuff, on the other hand, I would like to see a lot of.
 
Both side stories were bad. Mio’s was slightly better since Miyabi is at least mildly intriguing, but the pacing and writing is just abysmal for where it happens in the story.

Bleh, now I’m reminded of how lackluster the writing was after Chapter 5. Talk about missed potential.
 
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VegiHam said:
Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I've never been a big fan of hetronormatove next generation stuff. The genealogy of which characters are the children of which other characters isn't interesting to me, and I hope it's not a huge focus in the story.

The founding of the city, and all the Xenoblade lore stuff, on the other hand, I would like to see a lot of.
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I think not. The trailer gave me the impression not even Rex or Shulk are aware they're traveling with their children. Or, if they are, they refrain from telling them the whole deal.
 
Neither were good, but I can't get behind the idea that Mio's side story was better. It was probably the lowest point of the story outside of the quests that also relate directly to it, imo. Just totally destructive to the themes the game was going for. Defo the moment I checked out on 3's story.

And I guess I'm still checked out because the only thing I can think RE: the upcoming DLC is "well, I already bought it and it'll pass the time until Zelda.".
Maybe it'll surprise me and I'll be devouring a heap of crow in three weeks.
 
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I want X & Y in the DLC.

They’re more Z-like than the other Moebius and it’s never really explained
 
VegiHam said:
Possibly an unpopular opinion, but I've never been a big fan of hetronormatove next generation stuff. The genealogy of which characters are the children of which other characters isn't interesting to me, and I hope it's not a huge focus in the story.

The founding of the city, and all the Xenoblade lore stuff, on the other hand, I would like to see a lot of.
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Yeah, the heteronormativity within the City in general is one area of this game that didn’t really sit right with me. You’d think a setting like this, a community established by and for those liberated from endless war, would be a bit more…queer and anarchist by the nature of it, y’know? But instead there’s no trace of queerness to be found in the City (as far as I’m aware, at least), and they somehow came to develop the same kinds of traditions like marriage and such (I really didn’t care for that Romero and Joulietta quest).

To the game’s credit, at least Rex’s kids are the result of a non-traditional, polyamorous, and at least partially queer relationship(s), so there’s that! But aside from that I’m not super into the whole generational characters thing. But I also just really don’t like what they did with older Rex in the DLC, lol.
 
Síriocaz said:
I think not. The trailer gave me the impression not even Rex or Shulk are aware they're traveling with their children. Or, if they are, they refrain from telling them the whole deal.
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I'm not sure, I figured the toll of watching their children die over and over would be at least a part of Shulk and Rex's characterization. Feels a bit pointless making the kids party members otherwise.
 
Síriocaz said:
I think not. The trailer gave me the impression not even Rex or Shulk are aware they're traveling with their children. Or, if they are, they refrain from telling them the whole deal.
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I got the opposite vibe, actually. The shot of Nikol fixing Shulk’s arm just screamed proud parent to me.
 
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EtherPenguin said:
I'm not sure, I figured the toll of watching their children die over and over would be at least a part of Shulk and Rex's characterization. Feels a bit pointless making the kids party members otherwise.
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I'm suspecting Rex and Shulk haven't been in Aionios for too long. Let's remember that, before becoming N, multiple ancient Noahs tried several times breaking the curse to no avail. That is, until one version of him and Mio manage to conceive a child (who now we know it's Ghondor) and both of them reached the Homecoming and disappeared. Then Z brings them back as N and M.

This essentially means that a lot of time had to pass before the Noah that became N was born (I think the Chapter 6 mirage showed at least five adult Noahs, which means ~50 years summarized before him), and there's no way Shulk and Rex lived that long. It seems the guys we play as aren't too older than the ones that appear in that cutscene where they scream at Alvis.

So there's something else at play, I believe. Either they somehow slowed their aging or they were revived/woken up at one point, and this same process could've made them amnesiac or something. With that in mind, it's likely they haven't met more than 2 or 3 versions of their children, if any. Otherwise, what the kid in robes told Noah in Chapter 6 wouldn't make sense to me.
 
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