I make a point of avoiding posting in this thread, but I felt behooved to do so with the current discussion, especially since while some of what I say will be tinged with US-specific information, these principles apply universally to all elections happening this year and in all years to come.
Every election where Trump is a candidate is no less than a vote pro or contra the concept of humanity. If your main motivation is to stick it to '''''Genocide Joe''''', I'm convinced that you do not care one ounce for the future of the disenfranchised anywhere on the planet.
I’d say any vote where we need to deal any modern Republican (so any of them from the past half-century or so) as a candidate is going to make voting against them a necessity. Like I can’t say I’ve been a fan of any of the presidents I’ve lived through but harm reduction is the least I’m going to do
I’ll make this clear so folks in the cheap seats can hear me:
it is not the electorate’s job to be forced to swallow a bitter pill, it is the duty of the parties and the candidate to make you want to elect them.
If Democrats want people motivated to vote for their presidential candidate, they have to… y’know, motivate them to, not leave it up to their opposition to do the motivation for them as Democrats absolutely are right now.
When posters here are admitting that the president can’t do anything to protect against red/centrist Dem state actions against the disabled, trans people, the poor, etc., what value does the president’s rhetoric on protecting their rights and livelihoods matter if it’s acknowledged to be completely empty rhetoric?
Additionally, there are I’m sure a significant enough amount of people who are still voting, but will only do so down-ticket for their House reps. But the same principle applies there, a candidate’s job is to appeal to the voter, and no small amount of them openly carrying water for the president instead of growing a spine and standing up to right the party ship hasn’t been doing many favours to them. No one should shed a tear for the Democrats’ self-made problems at the ballot box.
Because make no mistake, this is a self-made problem. While some have goldfish memories when it comes to this administration, I certainly do not.
When he
told immigration activists to "vote for Trump" in 2019 (along with lying about not taking fossil fuel money, by the by), was he discredited for it? No, the party was so desperate to shut out Bernie that the centrist vote coalesced around him. He was elected on the back of this being his true beliefs and intentions. Only now, when his inaction has led to China absolutely fucking embarrassing the US by decreasing its fossil fuel use by at least 17% in a decade, having more solar installations in a single year than the rest of the world and more than the entire lifetime US solar fleet, the highest BEV adoption outside of Norway, and both sectors ready to export cheap green tech to the entire global south, only
now does he act out of pure economic protectionism, announcing industrial policy for the US while decrying industrial policy abroad as "unfair".
He
effectively asked people not to vote for him if he didn't stand for what they believe in. Why be mad when people are taking Biden up on his own generous offer now in 2024?
When he not only left many of Trump’s policies that he decried prior to taking office intact but actively expanded upon them, dissent within the electorate and within the party was shouted down or silenced. This was an opportunity to seek alternative candidates for 2024, it wasn’t taken.
When he was suggested to be in cognitive decline, dissent within the electorate and within the party was - you guessed it - shouted down or silenced. Another opportunity, wasted.
When he began spouting wholly unsubstantiated (and since provably false) claims of Hamas atrocities following Oct. 7th to justify weapons spending to Israel, which
he had bypassed Congress twice to push through even before the end of 2023... well, I don't wanna be a broken record about it.
There were plenty more opportunities to go "hey, let's maybe not snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" that I am neglecting to mention for brevity, but every single time, not only were such opportunities ignored, they were seen as a chance to defend the honour of Joseph Robinette Biden. You'll still see people talk about him as if he's the most progressive president that the US has ever had, which is laughable. His history in Congress was well known, his actions during his initial candidacy and his first term told people exactly who he was, so lots of voters aren't interested in Democrat crocodile tears that it's too late to replace him and you have to vote for him, because folks only have to vote for him because no one listened when those folks said they wouldn't. The electorate is tired of eating Democrats' shit after decades and decades of doing so, so maybe they should
do something about it. There was over 4 years to turn this sinking ship back to port. If it sinks now, it's on them, not the electorate. If you feel that it comes at the most inopportune time, that's still on them.
Also, any claims of "harm reduction" can be blown out the window, there's no reduction in harm to be had here, just a moderate
slowing of it. Electing Biden now sends a lot of negative signals. That his actions regarding Palestine have the electorate's approval, so he'll keep on going. That he can win on mere rhetoric without having to act on it because, again, as admitted, most of the harm to the marginalized electorate is happening at the state level, and he's worsened Trump policies on his watch that Biden himself said were harmful in the lead-up to the last election. How is electing a candidate making a bad thing worse "harm reduction"? How is "it's already worse but it'll be worse
faster with Trump" a rallying cry people feel comfortable getting behind? That folks demand better than a slower-acting poison should be seen as virtuous, not something to demonize or admonish.
Lastly, if people want to save their vote for down-ballot or, even better, state legislature races where it seems a lot of the harm is being done, that sounds like a better use of their democratic rights all around.
It is beyond insane that people refuse to recognize that it can get so, so much worse in Palestine if Trump is president again.
Unless you’re going to explain how Trump will make lives for Palestinians even one iota better, this is a bullshit attempt at a gotcha.
How can the situation in Palestine get any worse? Is Trump somehow going to magically make Bibi kill Palestinians
faster than his government is already? Given the situation there, if the death rate slows, it'll be because of other world powers and the US will have zero to do with it (but will take all the fucking credit, I'm sure). People talk about Biden having "red lines", that his sabre-rattling rhetoric belies a wholly-imaginary desire to stop the conflict in the background that never materializes into reality.
At best, you can call the situation in Palestine a total wash in either a Biden or Trump presidency. That's not the vindication y'all make it seem to be, it's fucking abysmal and a condemnation of the Democratic candidate for president, full stop.
Besides, with the famine Bibi is engaged in with Palestine right now,
there may not be a Palestine to act worse towards anyways, unless we magically believe that Palestinians can survive being starved to death for 4-5 more months. This is a genocide we're talking about, lest we forget, one that Biden has proclaimed doesn't exist.
I asked how Trump would make things better. You responded that you can’t imagine how he’d make them worse. Not only isn’t that an answer to my question, it just shows a failure of imagination. There are a lot of ways for things to get worse. You’re talking about a guy who just this week was throwing out the word Palestinian as an insult to describe Chuck Schumer. I don’t get the sense he’s going to even bother pretending to talk about peace.
No one thinks Trump will make things better, and no one argued that, so bringing it up is non-sensical, and your only provided example of things getting worse is rhetoric being meaner, as if that somehow means anything substantive. Also, the US may not be deporting people for Palestine protests right now, but they are jailing them... and oops, if you happen to be a foreigner, guess what happens because you have a criminal record? Different method, similar end result. Funny that.
What will fix it then? We let Trump get in, he dismantles the systems even further than he did his first time around, hope the government collapses entirely and anarchy reigns supreme? We pull a French revolution?
Or are you just not interested in fixing it, and instead would rather do things on a local basis? Hey, they say change starts at home, so...
Considering the level of power the states have over the lives of everyday Americans and is, admitted by others here, the source of a great many problems that Biden apparently has his hands tied to fix, yeah, that's a
really good place to start focusing attention on.
