Discussion [The Verge] Tech Fails of 2022: The Nintendo Switch Really Showed Its Age

[Marce-chan]

I am really predicting that Switch 2 is coming May 12th along with Zelda.

If I am right and that’s the case, it’s hard to argue that wasn’t that best decision — making this whole article and frenzy over switch’s power to be moot.

But it they don’t have Switch 2 on May.12th and we’re playing ToTK in 900p 30fps with drops (like BOTW) — well then I’m going to say they screwed up and need to get a new console out.

I'll be more than fine with 900p, Metroid Dread is 900p and looks fantastic.
TotK will also have a lot of new modern visual features, will have a huge world and a ton of more stuff.

GTA V came out on PS360 2 months before PS4/XBO released, its graphics weren't all that impressive compared to something like TLOU or Tomb Raider, and its frame rate was so unstable that it was low 20s most of the driving time. The remaster for XBO and PS4 was 30FPS still.

The Last of Us was probably the most waited first party game of PS in 2013 and came exclusively por PS3 literally the month before PS4 launched, and with no BC.

They can totally only launch the new hardware on the holidays alongside, say, 3D Mario. Not always it's the most hyped game ever the one to come with hardware. Animal Crossing New Horizons came out in March, with Lite releasing in September with a Zelda remake while November had new Pokémon generation. OLED released with Dread with November once again having Pokemon. Pokémon Scarlet and Violet came out with nothing and broke records of fastest selling Nintendo game ever, probably fastest selling exclusive game ever.

 

[BassForever]

We will know in the coming months if Drake is coming out around/before may depending on what Nintendo announces in the first Direct.

If it’s pretty “weak” and by that they just announce AA games for the first 6 months then I don’t think Drake is out until November 2023 or early 2024

The problem is "pretty weak" is super in the eye of the beholder. You could have the Jan-Mar 2023 direct announce the following

New 3D Donkey Kong
New 2D Mario
Mario Party Superstars Premium dlc
F-Zero GX Remaster/Remake
Pokemon Scarlet/Violet Premium dlc
Golden Sun 4
Kid Icarus Uprising Remaster
Metroid Prime 4 rerevealed
Pikmin 4 launch date

All of that for 2023, and people would find a way to either say the line up is "weak", or that they're disappointed that Nintendo has doubled down on another year of weaker hardware. The September 2022 direct had people calling it weak despite having a new Pikmin, new Fire Emblem, a remaster of a top tier Kirby game, several remakes/remasters of beloved games from the past 15 years, and several new 3rd party titles like Octopath 2 and Raincode. People will never be happy and will always twist what happened to fill their narrative.

 

[Marce-chan]

Absolutely correct and brave article from The Verge. We've needed upgraded hardware since The Witcher 3 days, it's getting embarrassing.

Don't know if it's sarcasm or not but calling "brave" an article from a mainstream media site saying a 2017 console is the biggest tech fail of 2022 is... Something.

 

[Marce-chan]

Honestly the more I think about it, the more certain I am that we won't see the Switch's successor in 2023. Even leaving aside the Zelda issue, they've got multiple DLCs and additional content to wrap up for Xenoblade, Mario Kart, Splatoon 3 and likely Pokemon, which a new console's launch would interrupt. We likely should have seen the writing on the wall when they announced Mario Kart 8 DLC will last for 24 months tbh.

I think Nintendo's huge start to the financial year will give the Switch one last big boost which could last well until next Christmas (especially if they have something Mario related in the pipeline). They've announced Pikmin 4 is coming this year and if they pepper their release schedule with enough smaller titles the momentum could last until March 2024, when they release Switch 2 seven years to the nose since the OG Switch released. Bosh, that's a pretty amazing financial year for Nintendo right there.

I think it's gonna be an interactive successor/"Pro"/extended cross gen like Xbox, so I can totally see it coming next year.

I was thinking March alongside a yet to be announced Metroid Prime Remaster but it's not coming alongside Cereza and the Lost Demon. I think we still have time for it to come alongside TotK. If not, then I'm totally expecting it alongside a new 3D Mario in the holidays. But I don't expect any exclusive for it until 2025 so whatever.

 

[Marce-chan]

aa

If Switch 2 launches next fall, I will be extremely disappointed if there aren't plans for TotK to take advantage of that extra power...

They probably can make the game scalable to run at higher res when on the more powerful machine(maybe the dynamic res makes it possible already idk). But at the very least patches for the more fabled games like TotK, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, etc to have those at 4K it will have.

But we all know they'll release a 3D Mario in the holidays that runs and looks gens better than Zelda just like in 2017

 

[Marce-chan]

Put it this way. Why announce a 24 month plan for Mario Kart 8 DLC if a Switch 2 was just around the corner (when it's taking away resources that could be put towards MK9)? Why release Splatoon 3 this year if it's only going to get a 6-12 months of additional content before the entire audience has to move to Switch 2? It's not a deal breaker I admit, and there are ways around it (an Octo-expansion type deal for Splatoon 3 on Switch 2 maybe), but it's very odd to have Nintendo commit to long term service games and additional content if they are gearing up for a new console launch imminently.

I think Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is already both Mario Kart 9 and Mario Kart 10, sadly... Won't be colored surprised if they announce like a new pack of all new courses and characters alongside the patch that makes it compatible with 4K and RT for next Switch.

Wouldn't be sad either btw.

 

[Marce-chan]

My favorite part (not here thankfully, on Twitter and other forums) is people having selective memory about how games perform. It's fine to want new hardware, I want new hardware too eventually (to see what kind of new games are possible and what new gimmicks we'll get), but claiming stuff like that even the first party games aren't 720p/1080p is funny.

If you look at the list of first party games on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_products#Nintendo_Switch (and you exclude third party games that they publish), they have around 71 games by my count.

In handheld mode, there's only 12 games that are not at least dynamic 720-648p (Xenoblade 2 + Torna, Pokken Tournament, Yoshi's Crafted World, Link's Awakening, Xenoblade DE, Origami King and both Mario + Rabbids games, which are all 3 600p, Pikmin 3 Deluxe, Age of Calamity, Bayonetta 3 and Scarlet and Violet). And those also include the only ones that have framerate issues (at least from my experience). And realistically, stuff like the Mario RPGs and Link's Awakening still look good at their resolutions in handheld mode, especially on the smaller Switch screens, it's only the ones that have really low resolutions that have issues (but this varies from person to person).

What is the acceptable range for resolution docked for people that want a new Switch? Because it feels weird to demand all games be 1080p on the Switch when a lot of PS4/XB1 games had to drop down to 900p or lower, so I'll just assume 1080p-900p is "acceptable". Then, there's only 14 games out of the 71 that don't hit that. (Pokken Tournament, Xenoblade 2, Bayonetta 1, 2, 3, Yoshi's Crafted World, Link's Awakening, Tokyo Mirage Sessions #FE, Mystery Dungeon, Xenoblade DE, Pikmin 3 Deluxe, Bowser's Fury, BDSP, Scarlet Violet). And again, these are the games that also generally have framerate issues. I was also generous and included as many games as possible, even games where the computational powers of the Switch was not the reason the resolution isn't high (like Wii U ports where the resolution wasn't changed, or games like BDSP and Mystery Dungeon that just run the same in both modes).

(I didn't include games that have dynamic resolutions that could theoretically be really low but they are Splatoon 2, 3, Mario Odyssey and BotW docked, handheld they're fine.) Also didn't include XC3 because it runs at 1080p docked and 880p handheld after upscale, which is the effective resolution.

So at most 14/71. I'm not sure if that's acceptable to people or not, but to me that seems fine for a console 6 years into its life.

Also, this is from my experience/analyses on YT/dev talks, there could be games where there are bad framerates or resolutions I'm not aware of.

Thanks for this post.

 

[Marce-chan]

Nintendo doesn't have any fallback any more. The absolute last thing they want to do is wind down their current hardware before releasing the next one. That would leave them very vulnerable.

That's true too. I mean they can release their next hardware whenever they want, there's nothing like that dire Wii U 2016 or no games after BotW, nor Wii 2011 and 2012. We've had a fantastic year full of big and ambitious games, mass appealing games, fan favorites and all, with a lot more already announced for 2023 and beyond.

I'm not worried about current Switch being killed after the next Switch comes(after all I'll have Metroid Prime 4 to play... Whenever that comes), nor that the next Switch might flop if it doesn't release with a game like TotK, because there probably will be another megaton game for it to release alongside (like 3D Mario) or a game that looks impressive to highlight its capabilities (like Metroid Prime Remake).

 

[Heron]

Can't disagree at all with the Verge here. I've almost completely stopped buying new games for my Switch. Those few games I did cave in on and try were almost all diminished as experiences by the lack of horsepower of the machine causing poor visuals or performance (Pokemon Legends Arceus, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Pokemon Scarlet). Only Splatoon 3 felt like it was undiminished by the tech running it. Granted, the first 3 are all open world / open level games of some description but guess what? That's my favourite genre. So it matters.

This was all after quitting SMT V back when it released due to what felt to me like unacceptable visuals / performance. Or the disappointment of the frame rate issues in Link's Awakening. So after all that it started becoming an easy call to just skip anticipated games like Bayo 3. When you feel like you have to do that... that's a fail.

(As always, I should mention that I'm a home-console only gamer, because the experience handheld gamers have is obviously very different. Switch is functionally a home console to me, that I play for the exclusives I can't get elsewhere.)

Two other more meta points: I hate the conflation of sales / finance (what would be best for Nintendo) with what actual consumers want.
Me: "We need a new Switch, feels like a lot of games are being held back from their potential."
Other "No we don't, Switch will sell 20 million next year."
Sure. I don't care. It's not relevant to me. It's not what I'm talking about. This happens so often and it's exasperating.

Secondly, I don't get the thin-skinned nature of so many Nintendo fans about this. We are living in a great golden era for Nintendo. They are on top, winning GotY awards, making insane amounts of money, continually putting out new great software which typically gets great critical reception, they're branching off into movies and theme parks because they have so much money to throw about - they have been on top of the world for almost 6 years. Isn't that the situation where you can afford to hear a little criticism? Yet fans seem to maintain the persecution complex from back when it was uncertain if Nintendo would ever properly recover from the 3ds and Wii U launch failures and lash out at "graphic whores" who "will never be satisfied" etc etc.

I don't know. I was a fierce Nintendo defender during the Wii U era - primarily because the consensus regarding their prospects and software had become too negative versus the reality of the quality of what they were delivering. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and I'm a critic. But it feels out of step with the fanbase as a whole.

For me, Switch hardware in 2022 was a massive fail.

 

[Raccoon]

lash out at "graphic whores" who "will never be satisfied" etc etc.

this bit genuinely bothers me

true or not, the continued insistence that I will never be happy is a little upsetting to me

 

[PixelKnight]

Can't disagree at all with the Verge here. I've almost completely stopped buying new games for my Switch. Those few games I did cave in on and try were almost all diminished as experiences by the lack of horsepower of the machine causing poor visuals or performance (Pokemon Legends Arceus, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Pokemon Scarlet). Only Splatoon 3 felt like it was undiminished by the tech running it. Granted, the first 3 are all open world / open level games of some description but guess what? That's my favourite genre. So it matters.

This was all after quitting SMT V back when it released due to what felt to me like unacceptable visuals / performance. Or the disappointment of the frame rate issues in Link's Awakening. So after all that it started becoming an easy call to just skip anticipated games like Bayo 3. When you feel like you have to do that... that's a fail.

(As always, I should mention that I'm a home-console only gamer, because the experience handheld gamers have is obviously very different. Switch is functionally a home console to me, that I play for the exclusives I can't get elsewhere.)

Two other more meta points: I hate the conflation of sales / finance (what would be best for Nintendo) with what actual consumers want.
Me: "We need a new Switch, feels like a lot of games are being held back from their potential."
Other "No we don't, Switch will sell 20 million next year."
Sure. I don't care. It's not relevant to me. It's not what I'm talking about. This happens so often and it's exasperating.

Secondly, I don't get the thin-skinned nature of so many Nintendo fans about this. We are living in a great golden era for Nintendo. They are on top, winning GotY awards, making insane amounts of money, continually putting out new great software which typically gets great critical reception, they're branching off into movies and theme parks because they have so much money to throw about - they have been on top of the world for almost 6 years. Isn't that the situation where you can afford to hear a little criticism? Yet fans seem to maintain the persecution complex from back when it was uncertain if Nintendo would ever properly recover from the 3ds and Wii U launch failures and lash out at "graphic whores" who "will never be satisfied" etc etc.

I don't know. I was a fierce Nintendo defender during the Wii U era - primarily because the consensus regarding their prospects and software had become too negative versus the reality of the quality of what they were delivering. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and I'm a critic. But it feels out of step with the fanbase as a whole.

For me, Switch hardware in 2022 was a massive fail.

That‘s fair enough. I think Nintendo’s consolidation of its software and hardware development, along with its consumer base, around a single hybrid piece hardware, was always going to lead to these differences of opinion after nearly 30 years of a distinct home console/handheld split. Personally the hobby is entirely handheld-focused to me, so the Switch feels like not just an amalgamation of the 3DS and WiiU but with the Vita too as the last handheld console left standing. SMTV, Fire Emblem Engage and tons more all look great to me, but then I’ve never really cared that handhelds don’t match home consoles for performance. I’ve never even taken my dock out of the box or hooked my Switch up to a TV, but I can see how someone, where their hobby is entirely based around home consoles, could want more in 2022 and not care about the compromises made to consolidate around a hybrid. Hopefully the successor is not too far off.

 

[BassForever]

There were people back in 2016 after the Switch was formerly unveiled who wrote it off as an underpowered gimmick and would fail, including the god damn CEO of TPC. The reason the "waaah the Switch is underpowered" falls on deaf ears is because people have been crying about it since before the console launched. You combine that with Nintendo saying "fuck them graphics" with the DS and Wii back in the mid 00's and it's not surprised that a lot of Nintendo gamers have just become numb to people complaining about underpowered Nintendo hardware.

Even ignoring all that, what some people in the hardcore gamer(tm) bubble have to realize is that the majority of people don't have problems with bad textures or poor framerates, including many people in that bubble. When you scream at someone at how bad a game like Xenoblade 3, SMT5, or Bayonetta 3 looks/runs, people who loved those games and didn't have issues with how they looked/played aren't going to listen to your "Nintendo failed in 2022 they need more powerful hardware asap".

You combine those two elements and it's no surprise these threads have devolved into "Nintendo needs more powerful hardware" "no they don't look at how well it's selling". At the end of the day both sides can't even come to the table and talk about it because there is a fundamental disconnect on if specific games look/run good/bad. You see a whole lot of "you shouldn't care if the hardware/software is selling what matters is your play experience", but for the people bringing up hardware/software sales, they've largely felt their experience isn't compromised, or they don't see it/don't care.

 

[DittoM]

IDK maybe it’s just me and I have lower standards or whatever, but I can’t tell you how annoying it was back in 2020 for me to praise Age of Calamity after 100%ing it only for people to tell me the game was unplayable. I had zero issue jumping between that and Spider-Man Miles Morales at 4K 60fps so I really just don’t expect some people to ever be satisfied with the performance of Nintendo exclusives. I mean people have been begging for a Switch Pro for over 3 years now.

I’m sorry but I’ve seen this argument multiple times and it’s really stupid to me.
Switch 2 will surely allow for enough graphical fidelity, performance and resolutions for many years so only few people who don’t know what they’re talking about would complain.
There’s a reason PS4 games are still released and run great even in 2022, the problem with current Switch is that it doesn’t even reach those standards so current technical complains are very legitimate.
Switch 2 situation should be very different imo, so imagining that we’ll see the same scenario even after 5/6 years doesn’t really make sense.

Because by the time a Switch 2 comes out we’ll be well underway into the PS5/XSX lifecycle and standards will change. When more games on those systems are running at 4K 60fps, I fully expect people’s to start whining about how the Switch 2 library is “literally unplayable” because games are 1080 30fps.

this bit genuinely bothers me

true or not, the continued insistence that I will never be happy is a little upsetting to me

People have been whining about Nintendo hardware for over 10 years. I’m sorry to say but that’s not going to change with Switch 2.

 

[Serif]

I want an upgrade soon and I am disappointed that I am waiting on it to play certain games. I also have had a wonderful time with the Switch these past five years, thanks in part to me never buying bad ports on principle (which I've done since the PS3), and have been delighted by visuals of certain titles even though I own vastly more powerful hardware in the form of a gaming PC. Both can be true.

I'm only pushing back against the framing of a 'tech fail' and the use of BotW as an example of 'all the Switch is capable of'. Remove the 'Fails of 2022' part and I would agree with most of the article, though it'd probably get less attention.

I think I would have enjoyed an article talking about how much more capable an overclocked Mariko Switch is - reaching locked 60 fps and/or higher res in many demanding games - and why Nintendo might have made a mistake not releasing it as a Switch Pro in 2019. That might have been an interesting discussion about Nintendo's priorities, fracturing the userbase, the progress of tech at the time, whether or not it would've been worth it, etc.

 

[bixente]

The games I play aren't usually hampered by performance (Mario Kart 8, Tetris 99, indie games) so I could easily last at least another year on the same hardware.

With that said, I'm very excited about Drake and will be there day one.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

If we haven't heard about one by now, we're not getting whatever successor before Fall 2023 at the earliest. Nintendo had every reason in the world to rush into a new console in 2016 and they still revealed the Switch a full 5 months before its release. In an environment where they are still selling and producing major acclaimed titles for the Switch, they would likely want more run-up to an actual new console release so it seems safe to say we aren't getting Switch 2 or whatever with BOTW2. And the fact that we have such a particularly informed line-up of titles also makes me think we're going into 2024 properly too. I suspect Nintendo intends to push a 7 year cycle just as Sony and Microsoft did since the Switch is still selling so well and getting so many titles that also sell incredibly well.

 

[Brofield]

Truthfully, my interpretation of Nintendo's commitment to games into 2023 and beyond with DLC roadmaps serves as a key indicator that backwards compatibility is all but guaranteed (at least for those particular titles), and being able to play these games with a graphical boost would be an incentive to get people migrating to new hardware with already successful titles before first party exclusives start coming to the system.

I don't doubt the Switch is in the middle of it's lifecycle when the C-level executives are making that remark, just like I don't doubt that the new hardware will coexist with the old console sharing a crossgen period of about 3-4 years. It's certainly not unprecedented when comparing the continued lifespan of PS4 and Xbox One alongside PS5 and XSX/XSS. New iPhones don't stop being supported when the next generation releases, and it's not a hidden secret that Nintendo likes to model themselves after Apple.

 

[Raccoon]

People have been whining about Nintendo hardware for over 10 years. I’m sorry to say but that’s not going to change with Switch 2.

ten years ago I was 12 and had more lego sets than video games

 

[karmitt]

Two other more meta points: I hate the conflation of sales / finance (what would be best for Nintendo) with what actual consumers want.
Me: "We need a new Switch, feels like a lot of games are being held back from their potential."
Other "No we don't, Switch will sell 20 million next year."
Sure. I don't care. It's not relevant to me. It's not what I'm talking about. This happens so often and it's exasperating.

Very much this.

The fact that the Future Hardware thread is the most viewed by a ridiculous margin tells a very clear story. Switch owners, Nintendo fans, and the broader gaming audience are interested in a new device. I recall both Spawn Wave and Grubb mentioning that engagement for any new content around Switch revisions or successors is atypically high, a metric that betrays the stream of comments decrying the content. While some people are interested but tired of the conversation, many posts fall under the 'Switch is selling well, we're getting nothing' bucket.

Let me start by saying I'm not an expert nor will I pretend to be, but people saying console sales are still 'too high' for a new system has always felt like an effortless and incomplete rebuttal. Nintendo said the following earlier this year on sales:

Out of sell-through figures for the previous fiscal year, about 25% of overall hardware purchases were made by those who already owned a Nintendo Switch system. About 30% of Nintendo Switch Lite unit sales were repeat purchases (demand for additional Nintendo Switch systems after the first) and 40% of Nintendo Switch - OLED Model unit sales were repeat or replacement purchases.

"About 25%" of hardware purchases being those who already own a Switch doesn't actually seem like a positive thing in my eyes - at least not universally so. That means of the 23 million units sold in the year ending March 2022, 17.25 million of them were new owners. New owner sales aren't going to just maintain the same pace YoY at 6+ years out without some major discounts, which we've yet to see. Repeat buyers / upgraders being high does tell us that existing owners enjoy the product and want more from it, but I don't expect that number (5.25 million) to hold at all this year or next without something else new being brought to the table. The OLED model is a neat product, but it's also notably doesn't give owners that much of an incentive to upgrade.

It all lines up with Nintendo's own lowering of the forecast for the fiscal year ending March 2023 down to 19 million, and I think the year ending March 2024 is going to look far worse without a change. Some like to say that Nintendo is competing in it's own space, but the greater availability of the PS5 and XSX|S and the improving quality of content - 2023 is packed with major titles not hitting Switch - is going to continue to take core focus away from the system. Microsoft having Xbox Cloud Gaming available on more devices does matter as well - reviews of the Samsung TV implementation have been great from what I've seen. The Steam Deck might seem like it's not doing real numbers, but it's changing the conversation around what a handheld / hybrid device can offer, and it's only going to become more available from 2023 onward.

Furukawa and Nintendo have on more than one occasion emphasized the importance of a smooth generational transition. That to me does not sound like waiting for hardware sales to drop, and for it to fall out the conversation and fans' good graces. It sounds like trying to plan for a launch before that happens. I can see the argument for why it wasn't this year, as OLED is probably carrying things just well enough right now. But the idea that they'll be perfectly fine not doing anything next year either? Maybe I'm wrong but it certainly doesn't sound like a safe bet.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

The fact that the Future Hardware thread is the most viewed by a ridiculous margin tells a very clear story.

You guys should make a new thread every month

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

You guys should make a new thread every month

 

[BassForever]

Very much this.

The fact that the Future Hardware thread is the most viewed by a ridiculous margin tells a very clear story. Switch owners, Nintendo fans, and the broader gaming audience are interested in a new device. I recall both Spawn Wave and Grubb mentioning that engagement for any new content around Switch revisions or successors is atypically high, a metric that betrays the stream of comments decrying the content. While some people are interested but tired of the conversation, many posts fall under the 'Switch is selling well, we're getting nothing' bucket.

Cult of the new leads to people being hyped for potential new hardware and software, in other news, water is wet. It says nothing about the need for more powerful hardware. People are already speculating the PS5 pro and the next revision of the Steam Deck while bitching about the potential for the Xbox Series S to hold back current gen games.

 

[Kevin]

I respect those individuals who still greatly enjoy the classic Switch experience but as someone who exclusively plays games on a 65' OLED tv I can say I have more or less completely moved on from Switch nearly entirely. The only Switch game I plan on playing in 2023 is Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom. Beyond that I've been mostly just playing PS5/XSX games as I've been having a significantly better experience with those systems.

If I was a handheld gamer then I feel the Switch would still be okayish (though I would have moved onto Steam Deck if I was being honest). I love the concept of the Switch and I absolutely love Nintendo's IP but I just can't do it anymore with these 720p/20fps games. It's just too much. I played through Xenoblade Chronicles 2 and while that game was great with great art direction, the game ran like ass even with the sound cutting out during battles in the open areas. Monster Hunter Stories 2 was also a slog. Others as well of course.

I find it weird that there is so many people who DON'T want Nintendo to move on at all but hey we are all allowed our opinions. I don't see why Nintendo can't offer players a choice. We should have gotten a Switch Pro. Wouldn't have hurt those who wanted to keep playing on the original hardware while giving the rest of us possible 4K/60 visuals but even after 6 years it still looks like Nintendo is absolutely refusing to move on and seemingly has zero plans on releasing new hardware anytime soon. It's an incredibly disappointing decision but since Nintendo took a hardball stance and has actively been fighting against supporting any modern tech or visuals for like two decades now the only move a consumer like me has is to simply move on.

If Nintendo decides to release better hardware in the coming years, I'll be there to buy it but beyond playing Zelda next year, I'm basically done with this system. I'm not happy with my experience, it's my decision, it's entirely about me and what I want. Just like those who still enjoy the Switch are entirely allowed to continue to enjoy their Switches. I moved on and I just feel like it's a damn shame Nintendo won't budge at all. They cited the Switch as a "10 Year System" over and over again and I'm starting to become convinced that the company intends on keeping their word here. Doesn't mean I am forced to keep using the system. In my opinion, it's been long past time to move on but Nintendo likely won't move on until the Switch is basically so obsolete that nobody is buying it at all and no one even knows what a Switch is. They are hellbent on milking this dino until it's bled dry but hey there isn't anything I can do about it. I simply moved on!

 

[karmitt]

Cult of the new leads to people being hyped for potential new hardware and software, in other news, water is wet. It says nothing about the need for more powerful hardware. People are already speculating the PS5 pro and the next revision of the Steam Deck while bitching about the potential for the Xbox Series S to hold back current gen games.

Fair enough on that specific point - it does not stand on it's own as a reason for a new system, but I never said it did. That particular piece was more a personal gripe that the conversation is extremely alive and many are interested and excited about it, probably (?) more so than any other platform out there. If people don't want to see the conversation they should ignore threads, posters or otherwise that rub them the wrong way.

The entire remainder of my post was focusing on the 'but sales' response regularly used to nip the conversation.

 

[Serif]

Hyperbole is distracting. We all have a general idea of which games perform better than others so I don't understand the wide framing of "720p sub-30 fps" and similar comparisons in these discussions, especially when talking about first-party published titles. I know the intent is to just mean these as shorthand for "bad performance" but it's imprecise and paints a worse picture. I'd prefer talking about the shortcomings of specific games than treating the entire recent library as subpar. And again - it's not like people who enjoy the console recently are "ok with bad performance", it is entirely possible that they games they played don't have bad performance. And even the worse performing games in recent memory are actually targeting high framerates without reaching it (Bayonetta 3) or high resolutions (Pokemon), so neither Nintendo published game are 720p 30. Am I being a stickler? Maybe. It comes from seeing it repeated over and over again.

 

[BassForever]

Fair enough on that specific point - it does not stand on it's own as a reason for a new system, but I never said it did. That particular piece was more a personal gripe that the conversation is extremely alive and many are interested and excited about it, probably (?) more so than any other platform out there. If people don't want to see the conversation they should ignore threads, posters or otherwise that rub them the wrong way.

The entire remainder of my post was focusing on the 'but sales' response regularly used to nip the conversation.

I'm excited for new hardware, even if I've been critical of people calling no Switch 2 yet a "failure". My point in these conversations has always been that people have been overly zealous about when we'd see that new hardware. It feels like to me that people are getting upset at Nintendo/other gamers that said hardware isn't happening on their timeline. I've said many times here and on other sites, people who've put all their eggs in the "more powerful Switch alongside TotK in 2023" are setting themselves up to be angry and disappointed.

 

[karmitt]

Hyperbole is distracting. We all have a general idea of which games perform better than others so I don't understand the wide framing of "720p sub-30 fps" and similar comparisons in these discussions, especially when talking about first-party published titles. I know the intent is to just mean these as shorthand for "bad performance" but it's imprecise and paints a worse picture. I'd prefer talking about the shortcomings of specific games than treating the entire recent library as subpar. And again - it's not like people who enjoy the console recently are "ok with bad performance", it is entirely possible that they games they played don't have bad performance. And even the worse performing games in recent memory are actually targeting high framerates without reaching it (Bayonetta 3) or high resolutions (Pokemon), so neither Nintendo published game are 720p 30. Am I being too much of a stickler? Maybe.

I also think that we should be allowed to be dissatisfied with not meeting or coming close to current standards for resolution, and having low or inconsistent framerates. I don’t care what XBO or PS4 could do a decade ago - I’m not sure why that’s relevant.

Very few people are holding Nintendo to the same standard as Sony and Microsoft on graphics. I feel like the interest in a better Switch has historically been about playing current Switch titles with resolutions that actually look good on modern TVs, or match the native resolution of handheld mode. As time goes on, hopes and expectations have increased for sure, but it’s because we’re passing the assumed deadline for a revision and moving closer to what would be successor timing. That being said, if what we get actually does solidify a strategy that Nintendo will keep making titles on par with or slightly better than what they are now for 4-5 more years, and they all run beautifully on a 4K TV, I’ll drop out if the conversation entirely for years and I won’t be alone.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

Can't disagree at all with the Verge here. I've almost completely stopped buying new games for my Switch. Those few games I did cave in on and try were almost all diminished as experiences by the lack of horsepower of the machine causing poor visuals or performance (Pokemon Legends Arceus, Xenoblade Chronicles 3, Pokemon Scarlet). Only Splatoon 3 felt like it was undiminished by the tech running it. Granted, the first 3 are all open world / open level games of some description but guess what? That's my favourite genre. So it matters.

This was all after quitting SMT V back when it released due to what felt to me like unacceptable visuals / performance. Or the disappointment of the frame rate issues in Link's Awakening. So after all that it started becoming an easy call to just skip anticipated games like Bayo 3. When you feel like you have to do that... that's a fail.

(As always, I should mention that I'm a home-console only gamer, because the experience handheld gamers have is obviously very different. Switch is functionally a home console to me, that I play for the exclusives I can't get elsewhere.)

Two other more meta points: I hate the conflation of sales / finance (what would be best for Nintendo) with what actual consumers want.
Me: "We need a new Switch, feels like a lot of games are being held back from their potential."
Other "No we don't, Switch will sell 20 million next year."
Sure. I don't care. It's not relevant to me. It's not what I'm talking about. This happens so often and it's exasperating.

Secondly, I don't get the thin-skinned nature of so many Nintendo fans about this. We are living in a great golden era for Nintendo. They are on top, winning GotY awards, making insane amounts of money, continually putting out new great software which typically gets great critical reception, they're branching off into movies and theme parks because they have so much money to throw about - they have been on top of the world for almost 6 years. Isn't that the situation where you can afford to hear a little criticism? Yet fans seem to maintain the persecution complex from back when it was uncertain if Nintendo would ever properly recover from the 3ds and Wii U launch failures and lash out at "graphic whores" who "will never be satisfied" etc etc.

I don't know. I was a fierce Nintendo defender during the Wii U era - primarily because the consensus regarding their prospects and software had become too negative versus the reality of the quality of what they were delivering. Now the pendulum has swung the other way and I'm a critic. But it feels out of step with the fanbase as a whole.

For me, Switch hardware in 2022 was a massive fail.

What's really great about this post is that people would have called you thin-skinned and suffering from a persecution complex for defending Nintendo during the Wii U era and I think it's beautiful that everyone in this discussion, regardless on what "side" they fall on, has found a way to come together like this.

 

[Serif]

I also think that we should be allowed to be dissatisfied with not meeting or coming close to current standards for resolution, and having low or inconsistent framerates. I don’t care what XBO or PS4 could do a decade ago - I’m not sure why that’s relevant.

I am fine with that and didn't say otherwise. I want more Switch games to perform like Splatoon 3, Skyward Sword HD, Luigi's Mansion i.e. dynamic 1080p locked 30-60 fps. I just don't care for misrepresentation. I actively wish for TotK to run at a native or reconstructed 1080p, I won't pretend BotW ran at 720p 20 fps.

To give another example, I was annoyed when listening to a tech podcast about the Steam Deck and they mentioned a couple of Switch titles like Hades that 'apparently' run at sub 30 fps and how much better they run on the Steam Deck, which isn't true. The games they mentioned run at 720p 60 fps handheld on both devices. I still wish Hades was 1080p docked on Switch, but my point is - I prefer to be accurate about criticisms when throwing around numbers which can be proven or disproven.

 

[VegiHam]

I'm just exhausted of every conversation about switch software turning into hardware lament these days. Not so much here, but it's a problem on the wider internet.

And while I'm sure there are a lot of reasonable people who would be satisfied by a stable framerate Switch 2, I can't help but think that a month after it launched we'd have some other people start saying "anything without 4k ray tracing literally makes me vom, switch 3 when"

That pessimism about the hardware talk to software talk ratio changing makes me less enthusiastic about Switch 2 than I otherwise would be.

 

[karmitt]

I can't help but think that a month after it launched we'd have some other people start saying "anything without 4k ray tracing literally makes me vom, switch 3 when"

And perhaps I’m just being too optimistic but I expect the group that’ll be scant few by comparison to what we’re seeing now.

 

[VegiHam]

And perhaps I’m just being too optimistic but I expect the group that’ll be scant few by comparison to what we’re seeing now.

I hope you're right, it would be really nice.

 

[Serif]

A Switch 2 with PS4+ level visuals, a superior CPU and DLSS would absolutely satisfy a greater number of people and reduce the number of complaints about hardware to a significant degree. Diminishing returns and cross gen and all that. Unlike the Tegra X1+ the Drake chipset is custom built to serve as a Nintendo game console and achieve performance targets within certain constraints, so I expect more consistent performance from Nintendo titles. Third parties are another story but we can hopefully say goodbye to potato visuals if DLSS is leveraged properly.

So while the 'people will never be satisfied' holds some truth, I think we are reaching the point where the tech is there to have visuals comparable to the current gen and be acceptable to a lot more people. A lot of folks are happy with the Steam Deck and accept the compromises to play more demanding games, because it's powerful 'enough'.

I'm aware there are those who complain about the Series S "holding back" this gen but those are fewer and far between. A vast swath of people are just fine with its performance as a 1080p-1440p device.

When the Wii was out all I wanted was an HD Nintendo console. In 2017 I was satisfied (skipped the Wii U lol). In 2022 I'm ready for the next step.

 

[Truno]

A Switch 2 with PS4+ level visuals, a superior CPU and DLSS would absolutely satisfy a greater number of people and reduce the number of complaints about hardware to a significant degree.

It all depends on the release timeframe for this console. The majority seem to think that it'll release in 2024, and by then I fully expect a plethora of current-gen exclusive games on other platforms. That'll certainly make the new hardware feel more dated

 

[Raccoon]

It all depends on the release timeframe for this console. The majority seem to think that it'll release in 2024, and by then I fully expect a plethora of current-gen exclusive games on other platforms. That'll certainly make the new hardware feel more dated

yeah, they're really missing their moment with this prolonged cross-gen period. a new switch out H1 next year could have street fighter day one. what ps4 games will be coming out in late 2024? 2025?

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

yeah, they're really missing their moment with this prolonged cross-gen period. a new switch out H1 next year could have street fighter day one. what ps4 games will be coming out in late 2024? 2025?

Day one or not won't really matter for a game like Street Fighter VI.

 

[Illucio]

I prefer the possibility of a new console from Nintendo that would utilize slightly better hardware and battery, run on a similar SSD as the PS5, use the same design notes of the OLED version, include Wifi 6 capability, and have better Nintendo-made Joycons with better grip and buttons. I understand that the design changes of the OLED version are nice, however, I feel that the hardware step up is necessary for the games I have now to run with better frame rates and screen quality. I understand that this may be a lot to ask for, but I would be willing to pay for a Nintendo-branded device that would be similar to a Steam Deck in terms of screen quality and power.

 

[Truno]

yeah, they're really missing their moment with this prolonged cross-gen period. a new switch out H1 next year could have street fighter day one. what ps4 games will be coming out in late 2024? 2025?

Yakuza 8!

Although Switch 2 might not be underground enough for that one...

 

[Raccoon]

Day one or not won't really matter for a game like Street Fighter VI.

I mean, it's a multiplayer game and I'd like to play it with my friends while they're playing it...

I don't want to buy a video game on my computer c'mon

 

[DittoM]

No one here is outright against the idea of a stronger Switch. But there’s a difference between saying that “A new Switch would be welcome but I’m still satisfied with my current system” and “every Switch game from the last 3 years is unplayable 720 20fps and Nintendo is a failure for not giving us a new system.”

Like I’ve held on with my day 1 Switch for almost 6 years, as soon as they drop a successor I’m ready. But I’m also not the type of person who has been begging for one for the last few years and bases all of my purchasing decisions on Digital Foundry videos. And judging by the sales of “unplayable” games like Age of Calamity and Pokemon Scarlet and Violet, I think I’m only in the minority here rather than in the greater gaming space.

The Switch is almost 6 years old so it’s definitely time to start expecting a successor. But considering the things people have said in the other place about Switch games like “Splatoon 3 and Metroid Dread have constant frame drops” and “Breath of the Wild is 25 fps”, forgive me for not thinking that there’s anything a Switch 2 can do that will satisfy people for longer than 2 years before we’re in the situation we’re in now.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

I mean, it's a multiplayer game and I'd like to play it with my friends while they're playing it...

I don't want to buy a video game on my computer c'mon

Ah, they're missing your moment... my bad then.

 

[Raccoon]

Ah, they're missing your moment... my bad then.

they're missing the moment of having these cross-gen games at launch. regardless of the sales potential that'd be a unique position for the "home console you can take with you on the go" to be in

I'm getting pretty sick of not being able to say that anything would be a good opportunity without "well Nintendo will make a shitload of money anyway" as a response. why do we even talk about this stuff if that's always the answer?

edit: put more succinctly and appropriately, they aren't missing their moment to be successful but they are missing the moment in which they could likely have a handful of major cross-platform games on day one because of the current cross-gen environment

 

[BassForever]

they're missing the moment of having these cross-gen games at launch. regardless of the sales potential that'd be a unique position for the "home console you can take with you on the go" to be in

I'm getting pretty sick of not being able to say that anything would be a good opportunity without "well Nintendo will make a shitload of money anyway" as a response. why do we even talk about this stuff if that's always the answer?

edit: put more succinctly and appropriately, they aren't missing their moment to be successful but they are missing the moment in which they could likely have a handful of major cross-platform games on day one because of the current cross-gen environment

I think the hopium is strong if you think Switch 2 is going to get ports like SF6 even if it was available early next year.

 

[Dardan Sandiego]

they're missing the moment of having these cross-gen games at launch. regardless of the sales potential that'd be a unique position for the "home console you can take with you on the go" to be in

I'm getting pretty sick of not being able to say that anything would be a good opportunity without "well Nintendo will make a shitload of money anyway" as a response. why do we even talk about this stuff if that's always the answer?

If my mild response to you is too much then I will refrain from partaking in this discussion altogether.

 

[Raccoon]

I think the hopium is strong if you think Switch 2 is going to get ports like SF6 even if it was available early next year.

well shoot

man, maybe I don't want new hardware after all

 

[Scrawnton]

I wish I can be like those of you who think after six years the power of the Switch is still enough and there's no need for new hardware.

I'm not asking for Switch 2 to be able to go blow to blow with PS5, I'm just asking for something that's not six year old hardware.

I wish I could be blindly or blissfully ignorant like some of you all.

Spoiler

try to enter the NSO app tab and redeem points for icons or browse the eShop while a game is running and tell me with a straight face we don't need new hardware. I dare you.

 

[Hero of Hyrule]

try to enter the NSO app tab and redeem points for icons or browse the eShop while a game is running and tell me with a straight face we don't need new hardware. I dare you.

This is especially fun with games like P5R or Triangle Strategy, which seem to be barely optimized in terms of reducing overhead on Switch lol

 

[karmitt]

Spoiler

try to enter the NSO app tab and redeem points for icons or browse the eShop while a game is running and tell me with a straight face we don't need new hardware. I dare you.

Underrepresented argument for hardware improvements here. NSO and eShop are horrendous when playing a game lol

 

[PixelKnight]

I admit defeat. The eshop is so painful to use that, yeah, I could use a new Switch just for that

 

[karmitt]

I admit defeat. The eshop is so painful to use that, yeah, I could use a new Switch just for that

gottem.