Discussion The first official "Sonic The Hedgehog is a Great Franchise" thread

totofogo

big Big Man fan
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So glad you're enjoying it. Unleashed is so neat.
The only things to bother me are

1. Returning to professor pickle sure is.. fickle. Not always clear when/why to. And just now I think Tails was supposed to spawn next to him for a trip to the final world but he wasn’t there lol.

2. Some minor werehog jank and weird save points, but I got accustomed to it for the most part.

EDIT: oh and the tornado sections are lame lol
 

totofogo

big Big Man fan
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I’ve made it to the finale of unleashed - Eggmanland !

Unfortunately I died pretty far in last night on a Sonic section that didn’t provide a 1 up before a tricky section. Otherwise I really enjoy jumping between the two styles. Plus, if I knew this level had existed years ago, Colors would have been much less impressive lol. It’s fun to end on a more “gamey” feeling level than the grounded real world ones!

Gonna take another swing at it this afternoon.
 

GoGoDezmo

Animal Buddy
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I don't remember if anyone has posted these here, but Sega's putting up these TailsTube videos that serve as great little lore dumps. The first video explained why you never see Humans and Mobians(yes I still us that term) living in the same place-Humans live on the larger continents while Mobians live on smaller islands.

This second vid goes on to explain where GUN was during the events of Sonic Forces: Eggman beat them offscreen.

They're an adorable way to help solidify and share Sonic lore, and I can't wait to see more of these.
 

totofogo

big Big Man fan
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Alright I just ran credits on unleashed!

Well, I sure didn’t have templebots-assemble on my bingo card for a grande finale…even more crazy of an ending than Kirby Forgotten Land! The game really started to bend at the seams there a bit in trying to pull it off, but for a 2008 game it was remarkable!

This game was a labor of love from top to bottom, you can feel Sonic Team wanting to put every ounce into redeeming the series after getting screwed over in the dev process of 06. Eggmanland was a wonderful closer level– managed to pull off an A on my first complete run after the fail last night (since I wasn’t going in with any reserve of lives).

I plan to keep poking at it to complete it, and am super happy to have another game alongside Generations to dive into at my fingertips whenever I need that dose of Sonic. That’ll include grabbing the DLC I’m sure.

Anyway, I sure hope Frontiers gets us back on a path towards more games of this tier. Jesus, looking back at the reviews for Unleashed, they were undeservedly harsh! 3.5 and 4.5 from Gamestop and IGN respectively? Jesus
 
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Catalyst

Bob-omb
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Alright I just ran credits on unleashed!

Well, I sure didn’t have templebots-assemble on my bingo card for a grande finale…even more crazy of an ending than Kirby Forgotten Land! The game really started to bend at the seams there a bit in trying to pull it off, but for a 2008 game it was remarkable!

This game was a labor of love from top to bottom, you can feel Sonic Team wanting to put every ounce into redeeming the series after getting screwed over in the dev process of 06. Eggmanland was a wonderful closer level– managed to pull off an A on my first complete run after the fail last night (since I wasn’t going in with any reserve of lives).

I plan to keep poking at it to complete it, and am super happy to have another game alongside Generations to dive into at my fingertips whenever I need that dose of Sonic. That’ll include grabbing the DLC I’m sure.

Anyway, I sure hope Frontiers gets us back on a path towards more games of this tier. Jesus, looking back at the reviews for Unleashed, they were undeservedly harsh! 3.5 and 4.5 from Gamestop and IGN respectively? Jesus
Unleashed definitely got too much flack when it came out. The very idea of the Werehog just pissed people off and 06 was the most recent game so Sonic was under major scrutiny. But it’s a solid and memorable entry despite its flaws.
 

ProteusRidley

It's true Ridley, we really are The Last of Us.
Unleashed and Generations are top tier Sonic games.

Don't worry, I know I'm right folks. No need to applaud me.
 

oldpuck

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Cross posting my comment in the Sonic Haters Thread, because it's relevant.

So I want to love Sonic. I feel like someone else said - the games want me to go fast and punish me for going fast. They're called platformers, but they don't feel like platformers to me, the jumping has always felt bad, and the way that inclines in the 2D games punish you for jumping on them was a thing I never quite got the physics of, and found them really frustrating.

I think the later games have built so much on top of these foundations that they're weirdly inaccessible to newbs, despite being very "railsy, play themselves" feeling.

But I'm gonna get roasted and say that I think Sonic is a great franchise. He some how managed to emerge from the 'tude era of mascot platformers, personality intact, and emerge from the fall of Sega without becoming a clone of some other game. Mario has defined the platformer, but Sonic continues to exist, doing something different, as the Loyal Opposition, and that's good for fans and for the industry.

Mario is "Bowser of the week vs everyman". Sonic is "superhero soap opera"
Mario is "jump", Sonic is "run".
Mario is "build momentum", Sonic is "dodge".
Mario is your avatar in the game, and when Mario jumps you make him jump.
Sonic is your ally in the game, he goes fast on his own, you are his eye in the sky, telling him the safe path.

This is a mindset change I never quite mastered when playing the games, and the game's own inability to know when to cater to Sonic fans and when to bring new fans in leaves some muddled design - that's part of why he's always been so contentious. But watching my partner play (she loves Sonic), has sorta taught me how to enjoy it, and every now and then it will click and I'll get it.

Also, even the bad music in Sonic games slaps

If anyone has a bead on "hey, maybe you didn't grow up on Sonic, here is how you get into it" I'm open
 
OP
OP
FluffyPower

FluffyPower

Devil Bringer
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Unleashed and Generations are top tier Sonic games.

Don't worry, I know I'm right folks. No need to applaud me.

The Xbox One enhancements to the night time stages (namely running at 60 fps rather than 15) helped the game tremendously. Daytime obviously benefitted, but Unleashed Nighttime is now serviceable action platforming vs. barely running mediocrity. May sound like a backhanded compliment, but when added with the fantastic Daytime stages it's now a baseline 7/10 game with highs to 9 and 10/10 vs. a 5/10.


It's something I can now easily recommend for people looking for more Sonic action.
 

ProteusRidley

It's true Ridley, we really are The Last of Us.
The Xbox One enhancements to the night time stages (namely running at 60 fps rather than 15) helped the game tremendously. Daytime obviously benefitted, but Unleashed Nighttime is now serviceable action platforming vs. barely running mediocrity. May sound like a backhanded compliment, but when added with the fantastic Daytime stages it's now a baseline 7/10 game with highs to 9 and 10/10 vs. a 5/10.


It's something I can now easily recommend for people looking for more Sonic action.
For sure! I started replaying it on the S. Beat it on PS3, worst version, but had fun.

Also forgot I've beaten it on the Wii too.
 
OP
OP
FluffyPower

FluffyPower

Devil Bringer
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They
Cross posting my comment in the Sonic Haters Thread, because it's relevant.



If anyone has a bead on "hey, maybe you didn't grow up on Sonic, here is how you get into it" I'm open

The key to 2D Sonic is that "gotta go fast" was always just Marketing hype for 2D. Sonic 1, 2, 3, CD, and Mania are very much "pinball physic speedrunners". Speed is a reward for learning the level layouts on repeated playthroughs; getting hit, losing rings, dropping to a different pathway is the punishment for poor play. However, unlike Mario, the punishment is very incremental (you may go from 20 rings to 5 rings, but can still take another hit and get one ring back and take yet another hit) vs. dying in two hits to compensate for the focus on speedrunning. So you can get hit 10 times and take 9 minutes to get through a single act, that's perfectly valid for less skilled players, but the goal is to learn your toolset to cut that time in half and not take hits.

The 3D Sonic games are more of a mixed bag. Sonic Adventure 1/2, Heroes, and 06 attempted to emulate this feeling in a 3D space to wildly varying degrees of success (Sonic 06's development hell is legendary). Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and Forces are more like massive action set pieces where the goal is to make the action scene play out as smoothly as possible. Lost World is trying to be Mario. Shadow the Hedgehog is a spinoff and... you know, just don't worry about it unless you are really curious.
 

Clix

Chain Chomp
The key to 2D Sonic is that "gotta go fast" was always just Marketing hype for 2D. Sonic 1, 2, 3, CD, and Mania are very much "pinball physic speedrunners". Speed is a reward for learning the level layouts on repeated playthroughs; getting hit, losing rings, dropping to a different pathway is the punishment for poor play. However, unlike Mario, the punishment is very incremental (you may go from 20 rings to 5 rings, but can still take another hit and get one ring back and take yet another hit) vs. dying in two hits to compensate for the focus on speedrunning. So you can get hit 10 times and take 9 minutes to get through a single act, that's perfectly valid for less skilled players, but the goal is to learn your toolset to cut that time in half and not take hits.

The 3D Sonic games are more of a mixed bag. Sonic Adventure 1/2, Heroes, and 06 attempted to emulate this feeling in a 3D space to wildly varying degrees of success (Sonic 06's development hell is legendary). Unleashed, Colors, Generations, and Forces are more like massive action set pieces where the goal is to make the action scene play out as smoothly as possible. Lost World is trying to be Mario. Shadow the Hedgehog is a spinoff and... you know, just don't worry about it unless you are really curious.

Yeah I like 2D Sonic but I don’t think I ever played it by blazing unless I found some loops.

And I still stand by that Adventure 1 and 2 are a lot of fun and capture the actual “gotta go fast” feel since the levels play like runners. The issue with Adventure is the other characters, which are just not very fun to play. But if you just play as Sonic or Shadow, it’s an excellent game.
 

TreIII

Triceraton
Founder
The key to 2D Sonic is that "gotta go fast" was always just Marketing hype for 2D. Sonic 1, 2, 3, CD, and Mania are very much "pinball physic speedrunners". Speed is a reward for learning the level layouts on repeated playthroughs; getting hit, losing rings, dropping to a different pathway is the punishment for poor play.
Exactly. The 2D games, in their own way, tried to enforce the idea that ROLLING was a much more ideal/safer way of getting around than just running.

For example: You could run down an incline, likely hit an enemy along the way that you couldn't react to in time because you're going too fast, and get stopped in your tracks, losing rings and/or a life in the process. You might even be sent careening into a lower, slower path, as a result of your mishap. Bad hedgehog.

However, if you're ROLLING down the incline, chances are, the enemy will get taken out as Sonic buzzsaws through them and keeps it moving. Good hedgehog.

And this is something that the 2D titles tried to often teach you within the first two acts, because it's only going to get tougher from here on in.
 

totofogo

big Big Man fan
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The classic “interviewer asks question, interviewee answers” controversy. Just like with the SA3 mention, yawn.

 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
Case and point lol, how annoying

I.. can't even.
That was so not a walk-back. The article even says he's "saying the exact opposite" of what he said to IGN, which is baffling to me. He said to IGN he would like to make Sonic Adventure 3! Then he reiterated that he'd like to make Sonic Adventure 3 but clarified there aren't currently plans to do so, and that's a walk-back?

This is journalism?

sonic-mania-sonic.gif
 

totofogo

big Big Man fan
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he/him 🏳️‍🌈
I.. can't even.
That was so not a walk-back. The article even says he's "saying the exact opposite" of what he said to IGN, which is baffling to me. He said to IGN he would like to make Sonic Adventure 3! Then he reiterated that he'd like to make Sonic Adventure 3 but clarified there aren't currently plans to do so, and that's a walk-back?

This is journalism?

sonic-mania-sonic.gif
Liam can be an odd dude haha
 
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chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
It keeps getting betterrr


hydrossity is not a word
not a word
not a word
hydrossity is not a word
my fair lady🎶
 

big lantern ghost

somewhere in forever forest
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Weirdly enough, Frontiers has me curious: what single Sonic game would you recommend to someone who’s just never got into the series before?
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
Weirdly enough, Frontiers has me curious: what single Sonic game would you recommend to someone who’s just never got into the series before?
Are we talking more of 2D or 3D?

If 2D, I'd say Sonic 2 (which conveniently is on NSO) because it improves on Sonic 1 in pretty much every way while still feeling like part of the "beginning" of the series (as opposed to Sonic 3&Knuckles which is bigger and with more spectacle).

If 3D, I'd say Sonic Colors as it has good level design, tight control, and is probably the purest experience of any of the 3D Sonics.

The other option would be to try something like Sonic Generations or Sonic Mania which are both anniversary compilations of many of the series' levels. Generations leans more modern and Mania leans into the 90s games and is fully 2D pixelart. That might make them good sampler platters but they also might be a little inaccessible to newcomers due to being so steeped in the series' history. Not sure, as I was not a newcomer with either came along. 😅
 

VolcanicDynamo

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Weirdly enough, Frontiers has me curious: what single Sonic game would you recommend to someone who’s just never got into the series before?
Is saying "Sonic Origins" cheating?

If that's not allowed...hm. It's a hard pick between 2 and 3K. Sonic 2 has a pretty rough endgame for a beginner, from Metropolis being super long and cheap with its enemy placement to Wing Fortress being very treacherous with its platforming and the ringless final boss. Overall I think 3K is the better game, but things like the Carnival Night Barrel and Sandopolis are also some rough patches, and the levels can get pretty long, which might put off a newcomer, too. But either is still a good intro to the 2D style.

Whatever you do, make sure to just play the game first. Don't worry about playing perfectly or going after the Chaos Emeralds. Sonic is meant to be replayed, so come back a second time with more game knowledge and get the true ending that way. It is possible to 100% on a first run, but the special stages of 2 are very daunting and the whopping 14 Emeralds to collect in 3K can be quite the task as well for a beginner.

Ironically, the raw number of special stage chances combined with only needing 7 emeralds again makes Sonic Mania one of the easier games to 100%. I did on my first run, and before that point I had never gotten all Emeralds in S2 and never did so in a solo play of 3K. It might be my favorite of the 2D games, and I would recommend it, but maybe after you're more familiar with the classic era of Sonic. While it's not a hard game, least not more so than the others, it's not necessarily friendly to those who aren't familiar with the franchise. Like how the Chemical Plant Act 2 Boss is a sudden genre shift to Puyo Puyo as a reference to Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine, which is a fantastic fan service moment if you get the reference and if you know the basic rules of Puyo Puyo but sucks if you have no idea what's going on. Or how certain moments play with your expectations for the returning levels in ways that play to longtime fans but might not register with newcomers. It's a lovely game, and I think someone who has never played a Sonic game can still have a good time with it, but it's definitely a celebration of the franchise, so you'll get more out of it if you're familiar with it.
 

JR436

Probably looks better in a dress.
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Another day, another thread on Era shitting on Modern Sonic because why not.

Do people not get tired
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
Another day, another thread on Era shitting on Modern Sonic because why not.

Do people not get tired
Not on the internet they don't. 😩

Btw can I say how much I appreciate this community for not accepting the relentless negativity that other places foster? ❤️
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
I can't say this was me, but it should have been:
IBNWF61.webp

What's nutty is my art teacher was just chaotic enough that he might've supported this.
 

Tailzo

Bob-omb
I can't say this was me, but it should have been:
IBNWF61.webp

What's nutty is my art teacher was just chaotic enough that he might've supported this.
In art school I often used manga / comic style for some of my assignments. And omr of my two main teachers hated that. When I later drew something realistic, she was shocked «Hey, you CAN draw!»

While the other teacher gave me top grades and even tried to copy some of my characters.

On topic, I drew a over 100 pages long Sonic comic as a kid. Then Dragon Ball stuff for the next 5-6 years. It might still be possible to see in the art I do at work, but I think people should draw whatever they feel like :)
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
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In art school I often used manga / comic style for some of my assignments. And omr of my two main teachers hated that. When I later drew something realistic, she was shocked «Hey, you CAN draw!»
Oh same here. My first art teacher literally yelled at me in front of the class "I DON'T WANNA SEE ANY OF THAT J** STUFF IN THIS CLASS. I want REAL cartoon styles, like Hanna-Barbera!!" Luckily he stopped teaching art real quick but unluckily he moved on to being principal. 😂
Fortunately my next art teacher was chaotic neutral one and let me do what the hell ever.

On topic, I drew a over 100 pages long Sonic comic as a kid. Then Dragon Ball stuff for the next 5-6 years. It might still be possible to see in the art I do at work, but I think people should draw whatever they feel like :)
That was my progression too!! Not comics, but I was definitely drawing a ton of Sonic and Sonic-esque art, and then moved on to DBZ style in high school. Rites of passage. 😎
 

Tailzo

Bob-omb
Oh same here. My first art teacher literally yelled at me in front of the class "I DON'T WANNA SEE ANY OF THAT J** STUFF IN THIS CLASS. I want REAL cartoon styles, like Hanna-Barbera!!" Luckily he stopped teaching art real quick but unluckily he moved on to being principal. 😂
Fortunately my next art teacher was chaotic neutral one and let me do what the hell ever.


That was my progression too!! Not comics, but I was definitely drawing a ton of Sonic and Sonic-esque art, and then moved on to DBZ style in high school. Rites of passage. 😎
If you’re still drawing, I’d love to see how you draw today. I’m mostly drawing for work, but I could sketch some Sonic-related stuff. (My avatar is a drawing of myself, it’s mostly my style, unless you also count icons, vector illustrations and stuff like that.)

edit:
3 minute sketch of Tails
tailzo.png

edit2:
Part of an illustration of my wife (I make comics of my family in my spare time)
wife.png

Still kinda manga-inspired, both in coloring and style I guess.
 
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chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
If you’re still drawing, I’d love to see how you draw today. I’m mostly drawing for work, but I could sketch some Sonic-related stuff. (My avatar is a drawing of myself, it’s mostly my style, unless you also count icons, vector illustrations and stuff like that.)

edit:
3 minute sketch of Tails
tailzo.png

edit2:
Part of an illustration of my wife (I make comics of my family in my spare time)
wife.png

Still kinda manga-inspired, both in coloring and style I guess.
Hey, good stuff!! Especially the image of your wife, that's lovely. Sadly I haven't drawn in... probably almost a decade? I moved over to vector graphics and design and just never went back. I keep meaning to pick up a pencil again someday but I have almost a mental block or something towards it. 🤷‍♂️
 

Tailzo

Bob-omb
Hey, good stuff!! Especially the image of your wife, that's lovely. Sadly I haven't drawn in... probably almost a decade? I moved over to vector graphics and design and just never went back. I keep meaning to pick up a pencil again someday but I have almost a mental block or something towards it. 🤷‍♂️
A challenge then.

Please draw Knuckles for me. Only the head. :)
 

Tailzo

Bob-omb
Ya know what LOL

The head worked, but then I went outside of the bounds you set and tried a glove, and it fell apart. 🤣

Anyway:
9WpxSxJ_d.webp
The head is excellent. I asked for the head only to make sure it didn’t feel like a tall challenge. :)

I can see it is Knuckles from the Sonic 3 period with his expression. And that’s the best Knuckles :)
 

chocolate_supra

Must proceed at a high velocity #TeamDecade
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FamiGold
-127
The head is excellent. I asked for the head only to make sure it didn’t feel like a tall challenge. :)

I can see it is Knuckles from the Sonic 3 period with his expression. And that’s the best Knuckles :)
Thankyooooouuuu
And yes, Akira Watanabe's era is my favorite as far as Sonic character designs. ❤️
 


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