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StarTopic Super Mario Bros. Wonder |ST| It’s a Wonderful Extra Life

This game frikkin rocks and is insanely polished and well-designed, but I find it struggles to hold my attention, if that makes sense? Like at around 30-45 mins of playtime I feel like... okay, time to do something else. I'm not annoyed at work itching to play it. I'm not sure what kind of loops around to cause that, obviously just a personal thing, but it's interesting. In world 5 myself and slowly making my way through.
 
I'm really close to 100% and I will say the same thing I keep saying about Metroid Dread as well. This is the best 2D Mario unless you're blinded by nostalgia.
I grew up with the nes and the snes, so the older games are part of my childhood, but there's no way that either SMB3 or World are better than Wonder, no way.
 
This game frikkin rocks and is insanely polished and well-designed, but I find it struggles to hold my attention, if that makes sense? Like at around 30-45 mins of playtime I feel like... okay, time to do something else. I'm not annoyed at work itching to play it. I'm not sure what kind of loops around to cause that, obviously just a personal thing, but it's interesting. In world 5 myself and slowly making my way through.
I felt this way too and kind of just dropped off completely once I got to World 6. haven't felt like going back. o_O
 
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This game frikkin rocks and is insanely polished and well-designed, but I find it struggles to hold my attention, if that makes sense? Like at around 30-45 mins of playtime I feel like... okay, time to do something else. I'm not annoyed at work itching to play it. I'm not sure what kind of loops around to cause that, obviously just a personal thing, but it's interesting. In world 5 myself and slowly making my way through.
I feel like this about most course complete games. I love them dearly, but after 30 minutes I'm usually good for a bit. I don't view that as a bad thing. It's not like I get 30 straight minutes to play very often anyways!
 
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I’m already itching to poll Fami between Odyssey and Wonder, a battle between the two premiere 3D and 2D Mario platformers for the system. It’d be an interesting discussion because I do think they have a lot of design sensibilities in common.

It’d feel wrong to leave out Bowser’s Fury through.

But honestly just thinking about it, I’m really fucking happy with these three releases in terms of new Mario platforming on Switch. All of them have their own strengths and excel at certain things, and all of them set exciting potential new directions for the series that I’d love to see followed up on.
 
I’m already itching to poll Fami between Odyssey and Wonder, a battle between the two premiere 3D and 2D Mario platformers for the system. It’d be an interesting discussion because I do think they have a lot of design sensibilities in common.

It’d feel wrong to leave out Bowser’s Fury through.

But honestly just thinking about it, I’m really fucking happy with these three releases in terms of new Mario platforming on Switch. All of them have their own strengths and excel at certain things, and all of them set exciting potential new directions for the series that I’d love to see followed up on.
I'm having a hard time figuring out where to rank this one because so many of the Mario games are tied to nostalgia. In terms of just overall quality I think that this has to be top...three or four at least for me? I love Odyssey, but this is just so polished...
 
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Absolutely. It deserves far more credit than it is given, Returns brought the DKC series back from the ruins and was so fresh at the same time. It's still the best 2D platformer of the seventh generation. I kind of like it even more than TF just because the swimming levels in World 4 of TF dragged for far too long for me, and I didn't think Returns had any low points in its level design.
Also Returns was significantly longer particularly the 3DS version and it featured a better variety of environments (the cave, the cliff, the factory)
 
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ok whoever said the final level is disappointingly easy, can I have your skills please?
 
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finished up everything earlier tonight, really nice game!! most of world 5 & muncher fields & pretty much every single new enemy were the highlights for me but I enjoyed pretty much all of it.

I was maybe not as blown away as I thought I'd be/wanted to be but I think most of my disappointment stems from a general design philosophy nintendo has been moving towards that I don't think I have the brain capacity to describe in detail rn lol—but I think it's especially prevalent in this game and pikmin 4 and I will try to articulate it at some point.
and I'm also just a bit sad that it never got as weird and zany and unexpected as I wanted it to—the Wonder effect that has you walking on the background surprised me (even though I think it was in the trailers) and made me think the game was really gonna start to break its own rules by the end but it never goes much further.

i don't wanna sound more negative than I feel, it really is a great game and a nearly-favorite 2D mario, but I am left feeling a bit cold in a couple ways I didn't expect.
 
My NSO sub lapsed so my session yesterday was without online and whew did I make sure to fix that for today because the game is so much better with it on!
 
WTF, the Legendary Yamanoi putting Metroid above Zelda? Never thought I'd see the day
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The way the slime wonder seed worked in A Final Uncharted Area: Poison Ruins lowkey felt kinda bad, it was like a bad version of a Pizza Tower transformation where instead of making the game more fun it just annoys the player
 
Just finished my first 100% run, Mario only, no badges except when forced obviously. I probably spent about 15 hours or so on it, taking my time. Stream of consciousness immediate reactions: Overall it was really good, but just a tad short of spectacular. Firstly, it has TONS of personality, something we all were longing for after incredibly sterile NSMB series. It finally felt like a step forward for the series. Some really unique art direction, great animations, and decent music. Controls like a dream, fantastic sound effects, and mostly great level design. Mechanically super solid just to move around through the levels running, jumping, and attacking. Impeccable game feel, so to speak. One level even felt like a Mega Man level to me, it was awesome. The finale (last handful of levels, not the Special world) was super impressive and I was smiling the whole time. I also can't praise the world map enough. I spent a lot of time just combing through the maps looking for secrets. World 4 was my favorite in this regard. I also loved most of the new enemies.

It's crazy how much they took from Donkey Kong Country Returns specifically. The heavy use of foreground/background elements, directly ripping off level designs/mechanics/artstyles seen in Sunset Shores, Bombs Away, and Handy Hazards.

Wonder mechanic is a mixed bag. There was a ton of truly inventive stuff, and at times it really wowed me and added another layer of depth and surprise to the levels. But I felt a lot of the time the ideas they were presenting weren't fleshed out enough. Like here I am on my way to do something that looks really cool, but then it ends as quickly as it began. Also, it can really interrupt the flow of the levels themselves, and there were definitely some repeats that got kinda old after a bit. I do think overall though it was a nice addition to the game, and helped to differentiate it from other games in the series.

I do have some criticisms though. The main levels themselves felt short even though they were in line with the rest of the series. I think this is because a good chunk of the level was often "on rails" due to the setpiece wonder flower moments. This meant that less of the level was made for just running and jumping around as normal. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just not something I really vibed with. Bosses were extremely underwhelming, and I expected a much better effort there. I also can't say I'm the biggest fan of some of the mini activities they had in between main levels. I get that it adds to the variety, but I would have preferred they just made more proper levels. My biggest criticism is the difficulty. Yes, the special world could be challenging, and tons of fun, and I appreciate that. But 90% of the game just doesn't push back hard enough. Most of the ideas presented weren't pushed quite as far as I would have liked them. This was a far easier game than the NSMB games, and to me that's a bummer. The final level was indeed a doozie though. Not quite Champions Road, but it kicked my ass pretty hard and it felt great. I started it with around 40 lives and beat it with 1 life remaining haha.

All that said, this is definitely one of the better 2D Mario games methinks. I'm not sure if I'd rank it third or fourth. 3 is first, World is second. I'm tempted to put Wonder 3rd, but NSMB Wii, despite following it's bland template, is just such a masterclass in level design, and provided a satisfying challenge. I'll just say their tied haha. Now if only we can get a proper 2D Zelda!
 
How is it annoying?
For a few reasons:

  • The character control is just worse. I get the point is that you stick to things, but with the small distance between walls in that level, it felt like I was constantly sticking to a wall I didn't mean to stick to. This would have been very easy to solve I imagine by just adding some weight to the jump, so the player would need to hold jump for longer to reach a wall. Instead I was constantly jumping back to a wall I didn't mean to stick to.
  • The dpad controls felt weirdly bad for the circular parts, which is really bad for a 2D game, I get this is a hard problem to solve in 2D games, but it feels like something Nintendo should have considered way more
  • This isn't the power ups fault, but the secret to getting it is fucking stupid. Just dumb, I kept searching the level for a clever hidden switch or exit only to find it was something that lame.
I don't mind it's use in the first and third level it's in, but that one specifically was just blegh.
 
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Okay so now I wanna be able to equip like three or four badges at once

So many jump moves that I'm loving the hell out of and I want to be able to use them all the time plz
 
I've 100% the game now and to me this is the most fun I've had with mainline 2D Mario since Yoshi's Island for sure. Comparing the game to the NES and SNES games is too hard since nothing will compare to those kind of childhood memories.

I will say though that I missed any proper platforming challenges. I really hope that Nintendo makes another Mario Maker game with Wonder mechanics. I just want really hard spin jump challenges.
 
My biggest criticism is the difficulty. Yes, the special world could be challenging, and tons of fun, and I appreciate that. But 90% of the game just doesn't push back hard enough. Most of the ideas presented weren't pushed quite as far as I would have liked them. This was a far easier game than the NSMB games, and to me that's a bummer. The final level was indeed a doozie though. Not quite Champions Road, but it kicked my ass pretty hard and it felt great. I started it with around 40 lives and beat it with 1 life remaining haha.
I think that depends, I don't think it's really any easier than the mainline campaigns of any of the New games, except maybe Luigi U. It's probably around the same difficulty if anything, and tossing in some of the Special World challenges it is harder from my experience. I will say though that if we're counting the later Challenge Mode stages in NSMBU and some of the Coin Rush DLC packs for NSMB2 those absolutely are way harder than anything in Wonder.
 
I’m already itching to poll Fami between Odyssey and Wonder, a battle between the two premiere 3D and 2D Mario platformers for the system. It’d be an interesting discussion because I do think they have a lot of design sensibilities in common.

It’d feel wrong to leave out Bowser’s Fury through.

But honestly just thinking about it, I’m really fucking happy with these three releases in terms of new Mario platforming on Switch. All of them have their own strengths and excel at certain things, and all of them set exciting potential new directions for the series that I’d love to see followed up on.
This is Mario Maker 2 erasure

It's hard for me to compare it to Odyssey because the course-based Mario games I usually need to play through multiple times to really evaluate how I feel. I think though if you asked me right now, I'd probably rank Odyssey above Wonder. Really had a blast with Wonder, but for the most part it feels like a natural evolution of the NSMB series, with some neat new surprises and ideas. Odyssey feels like a much bigger and bolder leap forward, while still sharing DNA with just about every 3D Mario before it. Neither are in my top tier of Mario platformers, but both are still great games and some of my favorite Switch releases.

Odyssey also has costumes and I always give points to games with costumes.

Regardless, for the Mario games I enjoy - which is mostly the platformers, RPGs and racing games - my bold claim is that the Switch is probably the best console for Mario, with maybe only the SNES competing. Mario platforming options are fantastic between Odyssey, NSMBU Deluxe, 3D World + Bowser's Fury, Mario Maker 2, and Wonder. SMRPG and TTYD are both getting remakes. Mario Kart 8 Deluxe speaks for itself. While I understand people seem disappointed with the sports games, I haven't really played those since the GameCube so I can't weigh in on them. But right now 2D and 3D Mario is in a fantastic spot.

I think that depends, I don't think it's really any easier than the mainline campaigns of any of the New games, except maybe Luigi U. It's probably around the same difficulty if anything, and tossing in some of the Special World challenges it is harder from my experience. I will say though that if we're counting the later Challenge Mode stages in NSMBU and some of the Coin Rush DLC packs for NSMB2 those absolutely are way harder than anything in Wonder.
I haven't finished all the Special levels yet, but I think Wonder's campaign is easier than Wii and U's. Badges give you a lot of leeway and a lot of the Wonder Flower segments don't really have fail states so they're just fun set pieces. It's probably harder than NSMB DS and 2, though, which are the easiest 2D Mario games I can think of.
 
I don't get the complaints about level length and difficulty, personally. I played SMB 1 - 3 for the first time earlier this year and a standard Mario level is like, 2-4 minutes. If anything Wonder's levels feel quite a bit longer when you consider you have an incentive to 100%, and there's a much greater emphasis on exploration while still retaining its linear course based nature. Maybe it was different in World? I know stages are longer in 2 USA, but that's the exception rather than the rule. The same is true of difficulty, SMB3 feels like the only one that's consistently challenging and that's more it being the exception rather than the rule.

What I do agree with is that the game doesn't build on its own ideas enough, but I think that's less a problem of any specific level, and more that most gimmicks don't get a second level. For an introductory level most stages actually use their gimmicks incredibly well, it's just that they're never used again. I have to wonder if people's complaints about difficulty and length of levels would be alleviated if they just included more sequel levels.
 
I don't get the complaints about level length and difficulty, personally. I played SMB 1 - 3 for the first time earlier this year and a standard Mario level is like, 2-4 minutes. If anything Wonder's levels feel quite a bit longer when you consider you have an incentive to 100%, and there's a much greater emphasis on exploration while still retaining its linear course based nature. Maybe it was different in World? I know stages are longer in 2 USA, but that's the exception rather than the rule. The same is true of difficulty, SMB3 feels like the only one that's consistently challenging and that's more it being the exception rather than the rule.

What I do agree with is that the game doesn't build on its own ideas enough, but I think that's less a problem of any specific level, and more that most gimmicks don't get a second level. For an introductory level most stages actually use their gimmicks incredibly well, it's just that they're never used again. I have to wonder if people's complaints about difficulty and length of levels would be alleviated if they just included more sequel levels.
Wonder level length is in line with the NSMB games, which are a bit longer than SMW levels. I replayed SMW earlier this year and I think some people forget those levels could be quite short. Mario levels generally aren't as long as say, a DKC level, since there's way more of them in a given game.

My main wish would honestly be more platforming challenges that aren't Wonder Flower-based, but I wouldn't say no to DLC of any kind.
 
Okay, when you guys are playing online, do you try to help the ghosts when they are trying to respawn or do you actively try to avoid them?

I'm 50/50, I don't mind helping, but its so fun to make them chase you sometimes lol.
I always help people. Intentionally running away has never crossed my mind and I actually feel bad if I can't help in time.

e66
 
In terms of non-main courses, I do wanna about out Badge Challenges and KO Arenas. Some of the most tightly designed stuff in the game. With the former because they were designed knowing you had to be locked to a specific badge, and the latter managed to throw some clever level design into a simple “kill all of the enemies” mission. I went in thinking they’d be like the blockades from 3D World, which I’m pretty meh on, but they reminded me more of mystery boxes, which were great. Stuff like having to use the firework enemy to kill piranha plants on ceiling pipes.

Break Times were a bit TOO short for me. I know they’re probably meant to be suited for portable play but even then, 2D Mario in general is already fast paced, bite sized and well suited for that. Most of them could be completed in less than 15 seconds, so they didn’t really add much at all for me. I’d rather just replay a course for one missing purple coin if I want a quick portable session. They weren’t straight up BAD, but just kind of a big fat nothing. If they wanted to keep that concept, that would’ve been the time to really throw in some difficulty. Short 15-30 second challenges, but had to be executed to perfection. Instead it’s just a really easy 15-30 seconds.

Search Parties im 50/50 on. At their best, they were actually pretty puzzling and had some subtle tells that made sense when you paid attention, the W6 one was pretty fun. The one where it’s just jumping around for invisible blocks was bad though. I didn’t play online however, So I’m sure they’re better there.
 
I kinda feel like Search Parties are a neat concept that maybe should have been an online co-op exclusive mode? Maybe they could have randomly generated courses with which you could work together to find the tokens etc.

I did really like the W6 one, as that relied upon your knowledge of the power ups and how they interacted with the environment.
 
Wonder level length is in line with the NSMB games, which are a bit longer than SMW levels. I replayed SMW earlier this year and I think some people forget those levels could be quite short. Mario levels generally aren't as long as say, a DKC level, since there's way more of them in a given game.

My main wish would honestly be more platforming challenges that aren't Wonder Flower-based, but I wouldn't say no to DLC of any kind.

I also played SMW earlier in the year, and I think the average level in that is longer than SMBW. The NSMB levels are definitely longer on average than SMBW. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the Wonder effects kind of force you to go slower at times, so it can artificially lengthen a lot of the levels.

In terms of non-main courses, I do wanna about out Badge Challenges and KO Arenas. Some of the most tightly designed stuff in the game. With the former because they were designed knowing you had to be locked to a specific badge, and the latter managed to throw some clever level design into a simple “kill all of the enemies” mission. I went in thinking they’d be like the blockades from 3D World, which I’m pretty meh on, but they reminded me more of mystery boxes, which were great. Stuff like having to use the firework enemy to kill piranha plants on ceiling pipes.

Break Times were a bit TOO short for me. I know they’re probably meant to be suited for portable play but even then, 2D Mario in general is already fast paced, bite sized and well suited for that. Most of them could be completed in less than 15 seconds, so they didn’t really add much at all for me. I’d rather just replay a course for one missing purple coin if I want a quick portable session. They weren’t straight up BAD, but just kind of a big fat nothing. If they wanted to keep that concept, that would’ve been the time to really throw in some difficulty. Short 15-30 second challenges, but had to be executed to perfection. Instead it’s just a really easy 15-30 seconds.

Search Parties im 50/50 on. At their best, they were actually pretty puzzling and had some subtle tells that made sense when you paid attention, the W6 one was pretty fun. The one where it’s just jumping around for invisible blocks was bad though. I didn’t play online however, So I’m sure they’re better there.

Badge challenges, even the expert ones, never pushed things as far as I would have liked them to sadly. Also not a huge fan of the KO arenas. Not that they weren't well designed, more just that I really dislike time limit based rewards.
 
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I also played SMW earlier in the year, and I think the average level in that is longer than SMBW. The NSMB levels are definitely longer on average than SMBW. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of the Wonder effects kind of force you to go slower at times, so it can artificially lengthen a lot of the levels.
The Wonder Effects are part of the level, though. They definitely contribute to the length and playtime of a level. Nothing artificial about that. So it's still in the ballpark of the NSMB level length, especially DS which was on the shorter side.
 
Guess I won't actually 100% the game after all. I am not gonna play this second Goomba stage anymore, it is the most atrocious stage in the entire game and I legit think it is awfully designed.

All the other Special stages were tough but fine, but this one is horrible.
Oh well, done with the game then. Great game, but honestly not sure if I deem it better than NSMBU. Way more creative and new, but the gimmick of this game does come with the cost of some things for me.
Still fantastic game obviously
 
Guess I won't actually 100% the game after all. I am not gonna play this second Goomba stage anymore, it is the most atrocious stage in the entire game and I legit think it is awfully designed.
I really don't see what you're talking about, I did a run offline just now and it only took three lives to finish it. Not to mention the Goomba levels are probably some of the easiest levels to cheese with the online multiplayer enabled.
 
I really don't see what you're talking about, I did a run offline just now and it only took three lives to finish it. Not to mention the Goomba levels are probably some of the easiest levels to cheese with the online multiplayer enabled.
Well different people struggle with different things, and the Bubble portion of that stage just made me decide I was finished with the game. Also I play the entire game Offline, so that has not helped me anywhere, heh.
The first Goomba stage was great, but the special one felt really bad.
 
I always help people. Intentionally running away has never crossed my mind and I actually feel bad if I can't help in time.
"I go out of my way to help other players": Lawful Good
"I don't particularly care one way or another": True Neutral
"I actively run away from ghosts just to watch people suffer": Chaotic Evil
 
Probably already shared somewhere here but I got this email. Hope I've got enough plat points.

 
Just finished my first 100% run, Mario only, no badges except when forced obviously. I probably spent about 15 hours or so on it, taking my time. Stream of consciousness immediate reactions: Overall it was really good, but just a tad short of spectacular. Firstly, it has TONS of personality, something we all were longing for after incredibly sterile NSMB series. It finally felt like a step forward for the series. Some really unique art direction, great animations, and decent music. Controls like a dream, fantastic sound effects, and mostly great level design. Mechanically super solid just to move around through the levels running, jumping, and attacking. Impeccable game feel, so to speak. One level even felt like a Mega Man level to me, it was awesome. The finale (last handful of levels, not the Special world) was super impressive and I was smiling the whole time. I also can't praise the world map enough. I spent a lot of time just combing through the maps looking for secrets. World 4 was my favorite in this regard. I also loved most of the new enemies.

It's crazy how much they took from Donkey Kong Country Returns specifically. The heavy use of foreground/background elements, directly ripping off level designs/mechanics/artstyles seen in Sunset Shores, Bombs Away, and Handy Hazards.

Wonder mechanic is a mixed bag. There was a ton of truly inventive stuff, and at times it really wowed me and added another layer of depth and surprise to the levels. But I felt a lot of the time the ideas they were presenting weren't fleshed out enough. Like here I am on my way to do something that looks really cool, but then it ends as quickly as it began. Also, it can really interrupt the flow of the levels themselves, and there were definitely some repeats that got kinda old after a bit. I do think overall though it was a nice addition to the game, and helped to differentiate it from other games in the series.

I do have some criticisms though. The main levels themselves felt short even though they were in line with the rest of the series. I think this is because a good chunk of the level was often "on rails" due to the setpiece wonder flower moments. This meant that less of the level was made for just running and jumping around as normal. It's not necessarily a bad thing, just not something I really vibed with. Bosses were extremely underwhelming, and I expected a much better effort there. I also can't say I'm the biggest fan of some of the mini activities they had in between main levels. I get that it adds to the variety, but I would have preferred they just made more proper levels. My biggest criticism is the difficulty. Yes, the special world could be challenging, and tons of fun, and I appreciate that. But 90% of the game just doesn't push back hard enough. Most of the ideas presented weren't pushed quite as far as I would have liked them. This was a far easier game than the NSMB games, and to me that's a bummer. The final level was indeed a doozie though. Not quite Champions Road, but it kicked my ass pretty hard and it felt great. I started it with around 40 lives and beat it with 1 life remaining haha.

All that said, this is definitely one of the better 2D Mario games methinks. I'm not sure if I'd rank it third or fourth. 3 is first, World is second. I'm tempted to put Wonder 3rd, but NSMB Wii, despite following it's bland template, is just such a masterclass in level design, and provided a satisfying challenge. I'll just say their tied haha. Now if only we can get a proper 2D Zelda!
Wow. I beat the game last night, and this is almost word for word the review I was going to give it. Like, bar for bar. From speficially pointing out how much it takes from Retro's two DKC games in particular (to great effect) to how the level design/wonder ideas are amazing but slightly undercooked, to how some levels felt a bit like "holders" for a set-piece event rather than proper platforming tests, to the main problem being difficulty. Amazing.

My conclusion was going to be that if New Super Luigi U had the charm and visuals of this game it would actually be the far superior platformer, and that I wonder what the reaction to this game would have been if it had been called NSMB 5, as that's still what it felt like to me.

Overall, I couldn't help the feeling that after 30 minutes I was happy to put it down, and I felt no pressing urge to pick it back up when I arrived home. Ultimately I think that's just because there wasn't enough challenge.

Still a charming, wonderful game. A 4 out of 5 for me.
 
I'm sorry but....I had to use yoshi for the final level, literally everything was doable except the invisible balloon fish jumping. That was just too much
 
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I'm really close to 100% and I will say the same thing I keep saying about Metroid Dread as well. This is the best 2D Mario unless you're blinded by nostalgia.
I grew up with the nes and the snes, so the older games are part of my childhood, but there's no way that either SMB3 or World are better than Wonder, no way.
world is way better imo, the levels themselves flow together much more naturally, and have tighter design in regards to platforming.

imo its not close between them, world is so far ahead of other mario games in terms of level design.

i started world 3 weeks ago and finished it this week.
 
Is there any way to map the butt stomp to the SNES controller’s L button?? I like playing with it and don’t want to have to use the tiny ZL or down button.
 
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Already clearing up the last world before facing Bowser, and I can confirm that Wonder gave me far more earworms than any 2D Mario games ever did. Especially the unique wonder flower themes.
All musical wonder effects are just a joy to play tbh.

My expectation was already set from 1-2 but it keeps delivering me pleasant suprises. A Boo singing opera and a Ninji raving party will never escape my head in the incoming months lol. The setup for the latter is even more brilliant: the stage itself is underground, and we can hear the rave music getting louder when we get near the stage lmao.
 


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