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StarTopic Super Mario Bros. Wonder |ST| It’s a Wonderful Extra Life

At last, I've cleared the Final Final Level.

The game was an absolute bliss from a gameplay perspective and a feast in visual terms.

But I'll say I wish the critical path and even some of the special levels were a bit harder. Plus, some challenge stages could have been more developed. I also felt a little bit like that regarding some regular stages and wonder effects. It seems that since they had to essentially pack two ideas into every course (the main gimmick of the level plus the wonder effect) sometimes one or the two facets were not as fully realized as they could have been.

Still, this is safely contending for the spot of my favorite 2D Mario ever.
 
totofogo said:


Watching this video before my latest wonder play session tonight made me realize that I had even more rose colored glasses on than I realized regarding NSMB…
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Looking back at the NSMB series while having Wonder to compare it to now only highlights the flaws even further.
 
Quoted by: em
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Phendrift said:
It’s funny looking back at all the debates pre-release over if this looked super new or too much like NSMBU, only for the game to remind me of 3D World more than anything now that it’s in my hands.

Can’t really even pinpoint an easy reason why, probably a lot of it comes down to style and presentation. A bunch of aspects just mesh together beautifully in a similar way that they did for 3D World.
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Yup, definitely has been my thought going through it; I mean, first of all the look and progression of the world map is very similar to 3D World, and of course the levels themselves are very much steeped in the modern Mario sensibilities of both introducing, developing and then discarding unique ideas in each level, which 3D World has a lot of. In general it's very much in the vein of 3D World, Odyssey (side-note: the shop in Wonder is basically the shop from Odyssey) and Bowser's Fury, but they let the gameplay be pure 2D Mario. While I enjoy 3D World, I like that in the Switch era they've let 2D- and 3D Mario be their own things, but just made them better.
 
Djehuty said:
Well I just finished the final test and wow


That was a disappointment of a final level, piss easy and I suck at platformers, it doesn’t even have all the wonder. Effects, half of it you are in a start and the rest of it you are riding a pipe or a boat, and the only time you aren’t is a super easy platforming section, litteraly every other Mario postgame has been better than this one frankly it’s pathetic in 2023 that they can’t even get a better postgame than games form 30 years ago, it doenst stack up to any other Mario game in terms of difficulty and content, what’s there is quality but lack of bosses, a lot of thrown away gimmick and wonder reuse that feels more padding than actual content I’m gonna have to put it at a 7/10, it’s a really good game with excellent level design but it is deeply flawed, and while it caught up it still doesn’t compare to any other modern platformer in terms of level design, what it has over others is a massive team and a giant budget.

I have found out that was not the final level but none of my thoughts have changed and a badge marathon is not that interesting anyway, still falls flat to the others
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I will say I mostly agree with you on the final test. I personally didn't like that it felt more like an easy victory lap than a post-game challenge level like the rest of the levels in that world. I also wish the levels in the Special World had their own unique Wonder Effect. Still for me the post-game content was pretty good.
 
0
World 4's pretty cool.

And that i say that, someone who normally hates desert-themed things, is telling.

Also, that Ninji rythm level ... nice.
 
KingOnion said:
Bowser Jr. should be tried in the Hague for taking water from people who live in a desert.
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A boot to the head

gamerguy said:
Lol this flower telling me to 'Relax' and 'Focus' every time I fell in this platforming challenge had me rolling.

I also want to throttle it by the stem. Love it.

also cool:

www.gamesradar.com

5 people made the original Super Mario Bros. - all of them were still at Nintendo to ship Wonder 38 years later

Nintendo's top devs have been at it for four decades
www.gamesradar.com www.gamesradar.com
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I always laugh at the flower that tells you “I believe in you”

Bulgowski said:
Despite being generally unenthusiastic for Mario as an IP, I have to say I was really impressed with this game. It's just pure fun and has such great pacing with it's creative set pieces and level design as well as just feeling great to play.
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My sentiments exactly. I’m generally indifferent towards Mario besides the spinoffs, but I am enjoying this game a lot!

Bonejack said:
World 4's pretty cool.

And that i say that, someone who normally hates desert-themed things, is telling.

Also, that Ninji rythm level ... nice.
Click to expand...
OMG, me too!
I also hate and bore desert and snow themed levels.
 
chocolate_supra said:
What's really really weird is I've had several occasions where I collected a big purple coin, died, and it didn't count. Had to find and collect it again on my retry. It doesn't happen all the time but it has happened a few times by now. Not sure why.
Click to expand...
I think that only happens during badge challenges since you don't lose a life when you 'die' in those challenges.
 
KeijiKG said:
and I also don't wanna go back to Princess-less rosters in future 2D Mario adventures.
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Me neither. Daisy is my least favourite of the Mario princesses but I've adored playing as her here.

Mario/Luigi and Peach/Daisy should be a doable default roster from here on, given their design similarities. Then you can throw in the Toads, Nabbit and Yoshi afterwards like in Wonder.

I'm hoping we see Wario, Rosalina etc in the future. They could even make badges with their unique abilities - I.e the shoulder barge and spin attack/jump.
 
I see the game being so generous with extra lives is so you have a nice cushion for the last extra level. 🥲
 
KeijiKG said:
I wish Shining Falls was longer.

and I also don't wanna go back to Princess-less rosters in future 2D Mario adventures.
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It really feels like the mario luigi peach daisy will be the new default character select going forward, at least for multiplayer mario games. Especially after the explanation for daisy inclusion by the director I don't see them taking away this choices. Kind of crazy that with might have seen the end of peache gets captured in 2d mario games.
 
zumaddy said:
I cannot figure out what to do in the Wonder Flower section of Secrets of Shova Mansion, can someone give me a hint without completely telling me?
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I believe there’s a talking flower that gives you a hint at the last second if you haven’t figured it out by then!
but otherwise you gotta find something to shove…and it’s not the giant bowser statue
 
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zumaddy said:
I cannot figure out what to do in the Wonder Flower section of Secrets of Shova Mansion, can someone give me a hint without completely telling me?

Edit: I am so stupid
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lol I had that spoiled by a video on socials and probably would have struggled too otherwise
 
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So sometimes on the detail screen for the courses, the seeds are circled, and sometimes not.

Does that mean there's a secret seed I should look for? It seems like some of these courses are 100%, but there's no circle around the seeds.
 
chocolate_supra said:
What's really really weird is I've had several occasions where I collected a big purple coin, died, and it didn't count. Had to find and collect it again on my retry. It doesn't happen all the time but it has happened a few times by now. Not sure why.
Click to expand...
Did you restart (or exit) the level? There's been a few times - mostly on Special World levels - where I've restarted to avoid losing a life, only to lose all three 10-coins I'd already collected on previous failed attempts lol
 
zumaddy said:
I cannot figure out what to do in the Wonder Flower section of Secrets of Shova Mansion, can someone give me a hint without completely telling me?

Edit: I am so stupid
Click to expand...
If it is any consolation, when playing with online on, you can see that pretty much everyone dies at least once trying to figure out what to even do.
 
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gamerguy said:
So sometimes on the detail screen for the courses, the seeds are circled, and sometimes not.

Does that mean there's a secret seed I should look for? It seems like some of these courses are 100%, but there's no circle around the seeds.
Click to expand...

It was the secret exit, you Luigi... the secret exit
 
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gamerguy said:
So sometimes on the detail screen for the courses, the seeds are circled, and sometimes not.

Does that mean there's a secret seed I should look for? It seems like some of these courses are 100%, but there's no circle around the seeds.
Click to expand...
When you don't see that green circle it means the level is not truly completed.

It most likely has a secret exit you have to find.

edit: I just realized you were the one that quoted yourself XD
 
hologram said:
Did you restart (or exit) the level? There's been a few times - mostly on Special World levels - where I've restarted to avoid losing a life, only to lose all three 10-coins I'd already collected on previous failed attempts lol
Click to expand...
I have made that mistake but no, I'm talking about grabbing a big coin, very soon after falling to my death, then the coin is back and I have to grab it again. It's probably what @hk-rara said about badge challenges.

ziggyrivers said:
A boot to the head
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nah-nah~
 
Enpsty said:
Although the boss fights are the weakest part of the game the final boss is 10/10. Definitely the best boss of all 2D Marios and up there with the best of the 3D ones.
Click to expand...
Personally it was very weak for me,

It’s all spectacle no gameplay and for that it’s honestly my least favourite Mario boss in the whole series sans sunshine and Mario 1
 
Lugia667 said:
some people are saying it's too easy and others are saying it's really hard lol
Click to expand...

It has checkpoints, so that already makes it easier than some of the past games. However, skill wise, I think it might be on par.
 
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Enpsty said:
Although the boss fights are the weakest part of the game the final boss is 10/10. Definitely the best boss of all 2D Marios and up there with the best of the 3D ones.
Click to expand...

I was very disappointed by the final boss fight in Wonder -- I truly expected another form or some changing Wonder effects. NSMB Wii had a fantastic final battle with Bowser that actually made use of the game's strengths and some of the Special World levels here mix things up nicely, so it's not like Nintendo doesn't know how.
 
Lucifer said:
Looking back at the NSMB series while having Wonder to compare it to now only highlights the flaws even further.
Click to expand...

Many of the "flaws" pointed out in the video apply equally (or even more so) to Wonder, such as the large open spaces, recycled gimmicks, and item boxes at the start of each level. There are even limited visibility levels, which the YTer seemed to hate most of all. Wonder does have a more kinetic style and better pacing with less end-loading than, e.g., NSMB Wii.

Edit: I'm discussing the linked NSMB retrospective, all, not personally complaining about Wonder, which I agree is a great game and better than the NSMB series (apart from bosses).

Cheetah6442 said:
What do you mean by no gameplay?
Click to expand...

You just stand there and jump to the beat. Mechanically trivial.
 
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em said:
Many of the flaws pointed out in the video apply equally (or even more so) to Wonder, such as the large open spaces, recycled gimmicks, and item boxes at the start of each level. There are even limited visibility levels, which the YTer seemed to hate most of all. Wonder does have a more kinetic style and better pacing with less end-loading than, e.g., NSMB Wii.



You just stand there and jump to the beat. Mechanically trivial.
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Did we play the same game here? That's not true amigo, especially with the open space bit. Most of the complaints are non-existent or are kept to a minimum in SMBW. The only real issue is the bosses(and lack of it too).
 
One thing that bugs me is when you approach a level on the map, it only tells you if you have all the Wonder Seeds. If you want to know how many coins you need to get or if you got the top of the flagpole you have to pull up the level list.
 
em said:
Many of the flaws pointed out in the video apply equally (or even more so) to Wonder, such as the large open spaces, recycled gimmicks, and item boxes at the start of each level. There are even limited visibility levels, which the YTer seemed to hate most of all. Wonder does have a more kinetic style and better pacing with less end-loading than, e.g., NSMB Wii.



You just stand there and jump to the beat. Mechanically trivial.
Click to expand...

I wasn't necessarily referring to the video itself, but even then I'd disagree. Item boxes at the start of a level are far from the biggest issues of the NSMB series.

NSMB has been recycling gimmicks between games, as was pointed out in the video. Wonder recycling its own gimmicks is not the same. The recycling is quite limited even. There's no other 2D Mario with so many unique enemies, ideas and elements that only appear a few times throughout the game.

NSMB has been recycling gimmicks, assets, music, enemies, you could go on, throughout the whole series.... at the end it just sort of ends up being an HD version of SMB3/World with a very lacklustre art style and soundtrack.
 
em said:
Many of the flaws pointed out in the video apply equally (or even more so) to Wonder, such as the large open spaces, recycled gimmicks, and item boxes at the start of each level. There are even limited visibility levels, which the YTer seemed to hate most of all. Wonder does have a more kinetic style and better pacing with less end-loading than, e.g., NSMB Wii.



You just stand there and jump to the beat. Mechanically trivial.
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nah wonder is significantly better, go back and actually play the "New" games if you think they have the same problems
 
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the only recycling i have seen so far is the musical levels and even those are quite different from each other
 
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Saying that Wonder has recycled gimmicks is quite the take. In fact if anything, I wish it recycled its gimmicks more. Stuff like the fireworks item, the green snake lift, and the blocks you shoot up were such good gimmicks that I wish we had other levels that expanded on them.
 
It would’ve been an amazing and interesting achievement if wonder had literally no repeated ideas, but ultimately that’s an unreasonable thing to expect. I think we should have higher expectations of certain things like the boss fights, but a few repeat wonders doesn’t feel like legitimate criticism to me.
 
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It's okay if people dislike NSMB

images
 
You can tell how proud they were of them new enemy roster by how so many of the courses are named after the primary enemy they feature.

Feel like most of Mario’s bestiary went unnamed to me unless I went to Mariowiki, but not here
 
I'm really looking forward to seeing what people think about this game in a few years. Wonder makes some big improvements but has notable weak spots as well. I think that people are going to say that the game is pretty good overall, because it shines where it counts the most (level design, with the visuals being an extra perk that we really needed at the time).
 
ProngoLuvr said:
I'm really looking forward to seeing what people think about this game in a few years. Wonder makes some big improvements but has notable weak spots as well. I think that people are going to say that the game is pretty good overall, because it shines where it counts the most (level design, with the visuals being an extra perk that we really needed at the time).
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Maybe in 6 years when they’ll have released super mario bros wonderfour with the same graphics, enemies, design and same flower kingdom people will beg for the good ol days of the new super mario series
 
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ProngoLuvr said:
I'm really looking forward to seeing what people think about this game in a few years. Wonder makes some big improvements but has notable weak spots as well. I think that people are going to say that the game is pretty good overall, because it shines where it counts the most (level design, with the visuals being an extra perk that we really needed at the time).
Click to expand...
Sometimes a game being more good is more important than it being less bad
 
Huh, I just discovered that if you end the stage in elephant warm with water in your trunk, your character will water the Poplin.
 
ProngoLuvr said:
I'm really looking forward to seeing what people think about this game in a few years. Wonder makes some big improvements but has notable weak spots as well. I think that people are going to say that the game is pretty good overall, because it shines where it counts the most (level design, with the visuals being an extra perk that we really needed at the time).
Click to expand...

I'm personally waiting for the "Super Mario Wonder is Bad, Actually." essay that comes with every critically acclaimed video game.

I give it six months, maybe three.
 
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Enpsty said:
Although the boss fights are the weakest part of the game the final boss is 10/10. Definitely the best boss of all 2D Marios and up there with the best of the 3D ones.
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The final boss in galaxy, 64, 3D world, 3D Land, and odyssey are all so much better IMO, the final boss is wonder is way to short and anticlimactic
 
Gotta join most of the crowd in finding most of the bosses in this game (i.e. Bowser Jr. and no one other than Bowser Jr., seriously, why?) to be pretty middling. Castle Bowser was a good final boss -- a bit too short, but still fun and the music was an absolute bop -- but NSMBWii continues to hold the crown for best final boss in an 2D Mario if we don't count Yoshi's Island.
 
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