Pre-Release Super Mario Bros. Wonder — Pre-release Discussion Thread

[chocolate_supra]

3 and World are very different from each other. NSMBU physics are a combination of the best aspects of both. For example:

Turning at p-speed:

SMB3 is by far the "slipperiest" and takes the longest to get moving the opposite way. SMW is the fastest with nearly no momentum. NSMBU is in-between.

Air control:

SMB3 Mario barely makes it around the block. SMW Mario clears it by several blocks. NSMBU Mario is closer to SMB3 but has a little bit more clearance.

Jump height/distance at p-speed:

Mario Jumps much further in SMB3 while NSMBU's jump arc is close to SMW's.

This.

This is good stuff. Thank you.

 

[squinters]

3 and World are very different from each other. NSMBU physics are a combination of the best aspects of both. For example:

Turning at p-speed:

SMB3 is by far the "slipperiest" and takes the longest to get moving the opposite way. SMW is the fastest with nearly no momentum. NSMBU is in-between.

Air control:

SMB3 Mario barely makes it around the block. SMW Mario clears it by several blocks. NSMBU Mario is closer to SMB3 but has a little bit more clearance.

Jump height/distance at p-speed:

Mario Jumps much further in SMB3 while NSMBU's jump arc is close to SMW's.

I feel like that Air Control comparison highlights why I feel NSMB can seem loose to me even if the physics are the same for Wonder. When Mario touches the ground in the NSMBU gif his feet glide on the ground for a few frames like it's ice. Even if it doesn't actually cause him to move it tricks my mind. I start to subconsciously course-correct with the controls to make sure he doesn't start moving too far left, which only means I start moving him more right than I truly meant to

 

[Forkball]

No, but it sends you to a "choose a badge screen" before you can go back to the level.



I've been doing that. The physics are NSMBU physics (obviously).

Mario's speed, acceleration, jump height, jump distance, etc. is all NSMBU/Mario Maker. It seems like they may have made Mario slide down walls more slowly to make walljumps easier.

In the comparison above the Nintendo player released the run button a few blocks before jumping which allowed them to turn around faster, but that's replicable in Mario Maker:

Turning might be SLIGHTLY faster but it's a bit inconclusive until I can do a more controlled test.

Here's me turning at full p-speed in Mario Maker:

And turning at full p-speed in the demo:

The wonder turn is 5 frames faster (15 vs 20) but I don't know if that's due to differences in the captures.

Overall playing the demo it felt almost exactly like NSMBU/Mario Maker except no triple jump, you can walk/crawl while crouching, and you can throw shells up.

Ground pound cancels are still here.

Thank you king

 

[Charamiwa]

The weird thing is that what I'm most excited about is the music, the world map, the side content... The levels are going to be good as usual but it's the whole package that I want to dive into, discover what a Super Mario game looks like in 2023.

 

[Magic-Man]

The more we learn about this game the more I'm surprised they're not charging 70 dollars for it

 

[hologram]

No it doesn't.

Oh my god that is HUGE

 

[hologram]

No, but it sends you to a "choose a badge screen" before you can go back to the level.



I've been doing that. The physics are NSMBU physics (obviously).

Mario's speed, acceleration, jump height, jump distance, etc. is all NSMBU/Mario Maker. It seems like they may have made Mario slide down walls more slowly to make walljumps easier.

In the comparison above the Nintendo player released the run button a few blocks before jumping which allowed them to turn around faster, but that's replicable in Mario Maker:

Turning might be SLIGHTLY faster but it's a bit inconclusive until I can do a more controlled test.

Here's me turning at full p-speed in Mario Maker:

And turning at full p-speed in the demo:

The wonder turn is 5 frames faster (15 vs 20) but I don't know if that's due to differences in the captures.

Overall playing the demo it felt almost exactly like NSMBU/Mario Maker except no triple jump, you can walk/crawl while crouching, and you can throw shells up.

Ground pound cancels are still here.

Hmm I've seen other analyses which don't agree with this conclusion. Mario's jump speed seems much faster in Wonder than NSMB, and his gravity is less floaty as well. Overall Wonder seems like it's going to have faster movement which will make speedrunning more interesting

 

[Adulfzen]

Hmm I've seen other analyses which don't agree with this conclusion. Mario's jump speed seems much faster in Wonder than NSMB, and his gravity is less floaty as well. Overall Wonder seems like it's going to have faster movement which will make speedrunning more interesting

more analysises will definitely need to be made once the game is released to compare with previous games (particularly the input lag) but ultimately a lot of the impressions saying the game feels less floaty will be in a big part due to the great animation work with strong posing and also less interpolation between key poses (so the characters actually switches from poses to poses way faster) resulting in a snappier looking game.

cannot wait for the video game animation based youtubers to do more deep dives on Mario Wonder since this is a major step up from the New Series and dare I say all previous 2D mario games.

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

Turning at p-speed:

Seeing all of the animations back to back is further proof of my feelings on animations! Objectively, Mario's turning in NSMBU is faster than the turning in SMB3. But the devil is on the details. In the other two games (and Mario Wonder, thankfully), while skidding, Mario is already turned around. Him moving in that direction afterward feels good! But that's not what NSMB(U) goes for. The fact that Mario slides to a stop while going forward and then turns around abruptly at the end to start running the other way never felt rights to me.

Wonder is taking all of the right lessons in animation from the classics. That alone has me extremely excited.

 

[em]

I played through the demo levels a few times today at GameStop while my kid did Pokemon TCG stuff and I'm not feeling it with Wonder, TBH. Obviously it's only a few early levels, but it feels like more of NSMB with some different power-ups/gimmicks rather than anything as revolutionary as 3/World/3D World. :/

 

[Giancarlo]

that must've been thought up by the same person who coined the "secret stones"

sacred Tears would be a better name for this macfiuns

 

[Cheetah6442]

I played through the demo levels a few times today at GameStop while my kid did Pokemon TCG stuff and I'm not feeling it with Wonder, TBH. Obviously it's only a few early levels, but it feels like more of NSMB with some different power-ups/gimmicks rather than anything as revolutionary as 3/World/3D World. :/

Strong disagree. This game is bursting with creativity, and the powerups and Wonder Flowers add a creative and fun layer to the game that those games didn't. Nothing about this feels like another NSMB title. Not to mention, the new art direction carrying it.

Edit: Need to also point out that 3D World is moreso a 3D title like 3D Land rather than a 2D one.

 

[Giancarlo]

I wonder why we haven't seen more than two seconds of boss fight gameplay? Like what are the bosses of this game going to look like? Outside of Bowser Jr, Bowser, and King Boo of course.


Nah, that's just not what Mario is. It might also scare away the casual audience as well.

i hoping theres unique bosses now and ditch the 3 hit boss formula, i would be so disapoited if Super Mario Bros Wonder bosses is just Bowser Jr with a different Wonder flower effect

 

[Adulfzen]

I'm happy nintendo hasn't revealed too much since a big appeal of Mario Wonder will be seeing a lot of the Wonder Flower effect for the first time during levels and boss fights (and I'm sure there are unrevealed powerups too).

 

[RagnarokX]

Hmm I've seen other analyses which don't agree with this conclusion. Mario's jump speed seems much faster in Wonder than NSMB, and his gravity is less floaty as well. Overall Wonder seems like it's going to have faster movement which will make speedrunning more interesting

Well I'm not asking you to trust me. I'm asking you to trust your own eyes.

Standing jump:

Forward jump no run button:

Jumping around a block (air control):

P-speed jump:

Same physics.

 

[em]

Strong disagree. This game is bursting with creativity, and the powerups and Wonder Flowers add a creative and fun layer to the game that those games didn't. Nothing about this feels like another NSMB title. Not to mention, the new art direction carrying it.

Edit: Need to also point out that 3D World is moreso a 3D title like 3D Land rather than a 2D one.

Respectfully, have you played it yet? Those are my impressions from my time playing Wonder.

 

[Cheetah6442]

Respectfully, have you played it yet? Those are my impressions from my time playing Wonder.

Yes, just like you I played a demo of it. From just a few short minutes, I can tell how this game feels fresh and new.

 

[Raccoon]

tfw opinions

 

[AngryAlchemist]

tfw opinions

I fucking hate those

How dare someone not be hyped for Mario Blunder

 

[Mekanos]

Well I'm not asking you to trust me. I'm asking you to trust your own eyes.

Standing jump:

Forward jump no run button:

Jumping around a block (air control):

P-speed jump:

Same physics.

If this is reflected in the final game, I wonder if this will just be the default for 2D Mario going forward, since it was in all of the Mario Maker styles.

 

[Lucifer]

If this is reflected in the final game, I wonder if this will just be the default for 2D Mario going forward, since it was in all of the Mario Maker styles.

No reason to change them up a lot as they're really good physics, it's the look and animations of NSMB that can make them feel off.

 

[BassForever]

Played the first two stages of the demo this morning, this game truly is New Super Mario Bros Switch. How it feels to control Mario, the way the levels are designed/paced, and how star/blue coins are hidden through the level. Obviously Nintendo made the right move by separating this title away from the New game from a marketing perspective (despite all the new games selling incredibly well but I digress). Overall if you're someone who didn't like playing the New Mario games I don't think you're going to like Wonder in the end. If you liked New and wanted it with modern graphics and some new ideas/gimmicks, this is for you.

 

[Cheetah6442]

Played the first two stages of the demo this morning, this game truly is New Super Mario Bros Switch. How it feels to control Mario, the way the levels are designed/paced, and how star/blue coins are hidden through the level. Obviously Nintendo made the right move by separating this title away from the New game from a marketing perspective (despite all the new games selling incredibly well but I digress). Overall if you're someone who didn't like playing the New Mario games I don't think you're going to like Wonder in the end. If you liked New and wanted it with modern graphics and some new ideas/gimmicks, this is for you.

Star/blue coins? The title of the game is not just for marketing purposes. Also just because a game may control like them doesn't mean they are like them. The NSMB gamss are bland and stagnate in their presentation and gameplay.

 

[SpaceGodzilla]

 

[JR436]

Well I'm not asking you to trust me. I'm asking you to trust your own eyes.

Standing jump:

Forward jump no run button:

Jumping around a block (air control):

P-speed jump:

Same physics.

Thanks for all your work on this btw.

If there is one thing that could be brought over from NSMB wholesale, I think the controls/physics are it.

Sure, people might have preferences for the older games and their intricacies, but I can't recall anyone taking real issue with how the NSMB games controlled.

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

"New Super Mario Bros. but with improved presentation, way more original ideas, and more interesting stuff going on with the map" is all I could ask for, really.

The NSMB games, on a fundamental level, were solid! Let's not pretend that they had horrid controls or terrible level design (maybe a bit broad but that's a multiplayer consideration) or anything like that. They play pretty well, some awkward animations aside (Mario Maker uses the same physics just fine for its core themes), and they have pretty good courses. The problems were a bland presentation reused across multiple games and a lack of original ideas for courses and gimmicks. Again, I must stress how deflating it was to have New Super Mario Bros. U, supposedly the best of the subseries, mostly just reuse gimmick concepts from New Super Mario Bros. Wii, let alone the reuse of music and other mechanics.

Gimme new enemies and a slew of new level mechanics? Gimme animations that better convey actions of players and enemies while also pushing a really fun classic style? Gimme new powers that introduce new ideas or remix concepts from older games? Gimme more intrigue around progression with the more open world maps? Make the multiplayer less annoying by removing the bumping into your friends? I mean, that last one is more subjective, but otherwise, this sounds like Wonder fixes most of the core problems of NSMB to me.

 

[BassForever]

Star/blue coins? Also just because a game may control like them doesn't mean they are like them. The NSMB are bland and stagnate.

There are exactly 3 things this game is doing that the New series didn't do

1) Added the wonder seed segments, which are heavily inspired by the challenges from Mario U.

2) The ability to pick a different ability besides air twirl (the hat glide is basically a buffed air twirl)

3) Introduced open areas from 3D World to let you play small segments of levels in a non linear order

Those are all really minor additions to the New formula, and would not have felt out of place in a NSMBS. The animation improvements, new enemies, and new power ups were a given because it's been a decade since the last New Mario game. People tend to forget NSMBU was Nintendo's first HD game, Nintendo has come a long way since then.

For the record I love the New series of Mario games. They were all incredibly well designed titles that the internet hates far too much. What this game is was more or less what I expected to see from NSMBS.

 

[Cheetah6442]

There are exactly 3 things this game is doing that the New series didn't do

1) Added the wonder seed segments, which are heavily inspired by the challenges from Mario U.

2) The ability to pick a different ability besides air twirl (the hat glide is basically a buffed air twirl)

3) Introduced open areas from 3D World to let you play small segments of levels in a non linear order

Those are all really minor additions to the New formula, and would not have felt out of place in a NSMBS. The animation improvements, new enemies, and new power ups were a given because it's been a decade since the last New Mario game. People tend to forget NSMBU was Nintendo's first HD game, Nintendo has come a long way since then.

For the record I love the New series of Mario games. They were all incredibly well designed titles that the internet hates far too much. What this game is was more or less what I expected to see from NSMBS.

You make good points. Still, I don't think the title of the game is just so people don't complain that it's just another NSMB title. Trust me, they would name it as such if that was the intention, regardless of the Wonder mechanic. But it's clear based on what I played thar it's not just an iteration of the New series.

 

[YolkFolk]

Played the first two stages of the demo this morning, this game truly is New Super Mario Bros Switch. How it feels to control Mario, the way the levels are designed/paced, and how star/blue coins are hidden through the level. Obviously Nintendo made the right move by separating this title away from the New game from a marketing perspective (despite all the new games selling incredibly well but I digress). Overall if you're someone who didn't like playing the New Mario games I don't think you're going to like Wonder in the end. If you liked New and wanted it with modern graphics and some new ideas/gimmicks, this is for you.

You played two levels haha. No where near enough to warrant such an observation. Early levels especially are often designed quite similar to help bring people into the game. Think you’ve just got a bit carried away with the controls feeling the same there.

 

[BassForever]

You played two levels haha. No where near enough to warrant such an observation. Early levels especially are often designed quite similar to help bring people into the game.

How much do you wanna bet the game will keep consistent level pacing the entire game? The way every 2D Mario game (or 2d inspired like 3D Land/World) has?

 

[OctoSplattack]

Would Wonder having similar gameplay feel as New Super Mario Bros. U really be a bad thing? The biggest flaw of the New games wasn't their gameplay after all, it was the presentation. Not saying that the current conversation is necessarily an example, but the kneejerk way I've seen some people act towards the idea that Wonder shares any similarities with the past twenty years of the 2D games is just kinda odd.

 

[YolkFolk]

How much do you wanna bet the game will keep consistent level pacing the entire game? The way every 2D Mario game (or 2d inspired like 3D Land/World) has?

Pretty sure someone could play the first 2 levels of SMB3 and be like “Doesn’t seem that interesting or on the level of U”.

You brought up it being a New game with a new lick of paint but now you’re comparing it to 3D Land and 3D World.

The New games got criticism for their recycled presentation and level design which basically stayed the same.

We’ve seen enough just from the trailers to know those won’t be issues with Wonder especially considering those previewing the game seem to be majorly excited with what they’ve seen.

 

[Raccoon]

let's wait until the game is out before cutting it down as new soup 5 alright gang?

 

[Dark Cloud]

Basing a whole game off a small 2 levels demo lmao.

I think I’ll go with the vast majority of people who’ve played the game and have praised the it. It’s the most excited people have been for a 2D Mario since Yoshi’s Island (well SMBW lol).

 

[Hocot8]

i do love me some rushed hot takes before the release of a new game.

 

[BassForever]

Basing a whole game off a small 2 levels demo lmao.

I think I’ll go with the vast majority of people who’ve played the game and have praised the it. It’s the most excited people have been for a 2D Mario since Yoshi’s Island (well SMBW lol).

The brain rot here is insane. I love the game from the demo. I also think the game feels like New Super Mario Bros Switch. I've felt that way since the reveal trailer, felt that way more after the direct, and even further felt that way after playing it. New Super Mario Bros U is my favorite Mario game. Thinking the game looks/feels amazing, and thinking the game is closer to the New subseries (that I love) has nothing to do with me trying to tear down Wonder, it's about me defending the New games.

 

[AngryAlchemist]

It's funny to look back at all the flack flung towards people making New Super Mario Bros. comparisons now that the general consensus is that ... there are valid comparisons to New Super Mario Bros.

Obviously it's a lot more creative but people need to stop being so reactionary sometimes

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

I do think it's imperative to note that "This is just like NSMBU" means different things to different people. Like, when someone says:

For the record I love the New series of Mario games. They were all incredibly well designed titles that the internet hates far too much. What this game is was more or less what I expected to see from NSMBS.

...then that implies a much more positive opinion than many of the folks who see "NSMB" and think "bland and unoriginal." Let's be reasonable, folks.

 

[JR436]

I definitely feel like the reputation that the NSMB series has developed since 2012 has led to somewhat OTT reactions when it comes to any comparisons being made to it.

We all wanted a new 2D Mario to take a different tack to NSMB after so long - Wonder taking anything from NSMB does not mean it has failed to do so.

 

[Mekanos]

Would Wonder having similar gameplay feel as New Super Mario Bros. U really be a bad thing? The biggest flaw of the New games wasn't their gameplay after all, it was the presentation. Not saying that the current conversation is necessarily an example, but the kneejerk way I've seen some people act towards the idea that Wonder shares any similarities with the past twenty years of the 2D games is just kinda odd.

Personally, no. NSMB's physics and general gameplay are fine. But I do know some people who were hoping they would radically reimagine the physics and gameplay, and they might end up disappointed.

 

[Cheetah6442]

I will say that I love that the world map is a mixture between SMW and SM3DW.

 

[neon]

They already tried it once in the beginning

the one without the saddle and segmented tail is even better

 

[Phendrift]

I don’t even need to wait til the game comes out, I can literally see with my own eyes in the trailers what differentiates this game from my problems with NSMB.

Like we have a fuckton of screenshots of environments that are way more creative than anything in NSMB

 

[O. W. Funnyname]

There are exactly 3 things this game is doing that the New series didn't do

1) Added the wonder seed segments, which are heavily inspired by the challenges from Mario U.

2) The ability to pick a different ability besides air twirl (the hat glide is basically a buffed air twirl)

3) Introduced open areas from 3D World to let you play small segments of levels in a non linear order

There's more.

4) No level time limit
5) No score system
6) The ability to push and pull certain objects
7) Levels that have sections in the foreground and background
8) The ability to use coins to buy items from shops
9) Doesn't kick you to the world map if you lose a life
10) Graduated Yoshi from power-up mount to fully playable character
11) Reworked multiplayer; dead players turn into ghosts and can move on their own, players no longer bump into each other, etc
12) Enemies no longer hop and dance to the music

 

[AtomicZach]

These are all good questions, but one question that won't be answered until release is this:

Will this game have for some reason have one voice line that is weirdly sexy for no reason at all?

...
...
...what? You heard me. Ludwig's "oh?" remark in NSMB Wii is unnervingly sexy for some odd reason and I need to know if Wonder follows the tradition.

This is critical to the game's scoring!

 

[entut1]

I don’t even need to wait til the game comes out, I can literally see with my own eyes in the trailers what differentiates this game from my problems with NSMB.

Like we have a fuckton of screenshots of environments that are way more creative than anything in NSMB

This game has something else NSMB hasn't.

It's self-aware


That's very promising if anything.

 

[Mekanos]

I don’t even need to wait til the game comes out, I can literally see with my own eyes in the trailers what differentiates this game from my problems with NSMB.

Like we have a fuckton of screenshots of environments that are way more creative than anything in NSMB

oh shit you’re a moderator

…anyway I’m looking forward to Wonder

 

[chocolate_supra]

the one without the saddle and segmented tail is even better

"Better" being in heavy air quotes

This game has something else NSMB hasn't.

It's self-aware


That's very promising if anything.

Okay that's fanastic

 

[zumaddy]

So do multiple people in local co-up get to equip their different badges? Or is it one badge for everyone?

 

[VolcanicDynamo]

So do multiple people in local co-up get to equip their different badges? Or is it one badge for everyone?

One badge for everyone.