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StarTopic Sonic Frontiers |ST| Open Zone of the Enders [Final Horizon DLC out now! Includes new story and new playable characters]

Jahranimo said:
I'm confused, is this not from DLC2? I haven't played DLC3 yet.
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It's entirely possible? I dunno. I just loaded up the game after installing the available update and it gave me like a dozen messages of new things so it probably downloaded several DLC packs at once.
 
Yeah, the new control options are from the last update.

I still haven’t changed from the default settings, though, ‘cause I believe they don’t apply to Cyber Space so I feel like it’d be jarring to switch back and forth between two different control settings like that.
 
Tye said:
Yeah, the new control options are from the last update.

I still haven’t changed from the default settings, though, ‘cause I believe they don’t apply to Cyber Space so I feel like it’d be jarring to switch back and forth between two different control settings like that.
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I'm pretty sure the cyberspace levels have different default settings anyway, because I could tell I was moving a lot more slowly in those than I was in free roam. But either way, a lot of the handling settings have separate settings for free roam vs cyberspace iirc, so you can tune each to your liking (or tune them both similarly).

As far as the jump deceleration setting I was gushing about, I'd recommend at least trying that, as it said pretty clearly in the menu that it applies to both 3D and 2D gameplay (and I looked up some articles that show it working in cyberspace as well) so I don't think it'd be jarring. Matter of fact the handling is less jarring with it turned way down imo (between 0-30), as retaining momentum while jumping makes Sonic jump sorta more how I'd expect. Feels more natural. I used to fight with the jumping physics in this game, made me feel like I was hitting an invisible wall anytime I jumped, made platforming really tough on my brain, but now it feels fantastic.
 
Quoted by: Tye
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totofogo said:



It’s so unhinged that adding new characters was prioritized above fixing pop in and I love it
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IIRC someone found beta data in the PS version and found the pop-in wasn't near as bad before the Switch version was optimized, after which point Sega seemed to set the draw distance of all console versions to match that of the Switch. For some reason. If that's the case then I don't see the pop-in as being a thing for them to fix as much as it was a deliberate choice for one reason or another.
 
chocolate_supra said:
I'm pretty sure the cyberspace levels have different default settings anyway, because I could tell I was moving a lot more slowly in those than I was in free roam. But either way, a lot of the handling settings have separate settings for free roam vs cyberspace iirc, so you can tune each to your liking (or tune them both similarly).

As far as the jump deceleration setting I was gushing about, I'd recommend at least trying that, as it said pretty clearly in the menu that it applies to both 3D and 2D gameplay (and I looked up some articles that show it working in cyberspace as well) so I don't think it'd be jarring. Matter of fact the handling is less jarring with it turned way down imo (between 0-30), as retaining momentum while jumping makes Sonic jump sorta more how I'd expect. Feels more natural. I used to fight with the jumping physics in this game, made me feel like I was hitting an invisible wall anytime I jumped, made platforming really tough on my brain, but now it feels fantastic.
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Okay, thanks, I’ll have to check it out. I’m just very intimidated by all the sliders and such and have no idea which control settings to change or what to set them to…

chocolate_supra said:
IIRC someone found beta data in the PS version and found the pop-in wasn't near as bad before the Switch version was optimized, after which point Sega seemed to set the draw distance of all console versions to match that of the Switch. For some reason. If that's the case then I don't see the pop-in as being a thing for them to fix as much as it was a deliberate choice for one reason or another.
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Surely they did that so that the inevitable best selling version of the game didn’t look terrible in comparison to the other versions. They’ve learned a bit from Colors: Ultimate, it seems! =P (Really, though, they should just design the game from the ground up specifically for Switch as the primary platform from the beginning and then scale it upward for other consoles, not the other way around…)
 
Really enjoyed the new content overall. A few potentially spoiler-fueled thoughts below:

  • Since the story script was datamined from Update 2 i've been really looking forward to seeing this alternate take on the game's finale. All-in-all it's a huge improvement over the original, but it would not have worked as well if the game didn't launch with the story it had. Much less emotional impact from Sage surviving this time if the original ending wasn't experienced first.
  • Really glad to have multiple playable characters again; though I am quite a bit let down in Knuckles specifically. Was looking forward to playing him the most in this style of game, but his glide feels terrible to use, and you can only climb specific walls (the walls Sonic could run up before, and his own exclusive red walls). The other two were very fun to mess around with. Tails using the Cyclone was great fanservice for my SA2 loving heart; but also that ability is maybe too good at breaking any platforming challenges the game wants to force you through, lol. I find the pivot to Amy being all about the tarot cards a little jarring, but giving her a magic focus does differentiate her from Tails' technological prowess and Knuckles' brute strength; I feel that was the balance they tried to strike at least.
  • The new cyberspace stages are by far the best in the game. Shame they're still stuck using the same level aesthetics, because they impressed me in how tightly they were designed (in spite of being built on some of the base game stages). A lot of ramps built to be used for Spin Dash jumps; new types of challenges that change the way you need to approach them; very cool stuff.
  • The towers and challenges are some of the toughest content to ever be in a Sonic game. It was very tempting to swap over to Easy (which does add extra balloons for you to save yourself with) for certain towers, and for one in particular that I kept falling on, I did. The boss rush pretty much requires a perfect run to complete in time and it took me quite a few attempts.
  • I thought the shoot-em-up sequence the original story ended on was fun but anti-climactic, so the new final boss is a huge improvement. It took a few attempts to figure out exactly what the game wanted me to do in certain circumstances though; swapping targets to the cable, cylooping that particular spot on the back, how to make that spot open for attack in the first place, how to make the health drain past halfway, etc. A lot of trial and error involved in finding the right sequence here.
  • Wish we got to control full-power Cyber Super Sonic ourselves, but it only shows up for a cutscene. Still a pretty cool design though.
 
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Tye said:
Okay, thanks, I’ll have to check it out. I’m just very intimidated by all the sliders and such and have no idea which control settings to change or what to set them to…
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If it helps, I think the only sliders I've messed with are the one for camera speed and the new one for jumping, and I also turned on "boost while jumping" (which might be a bit extreme because you can absolutely launch yourself that way but I love it.) I tried messing with some of the others in the beginning but I couldn't tell much difference so I just set them back to default. Default sliders with jump deceleration turned down seems to be the way to go (y)

Tye said:
Surely they did that so that the inevitable best selling version of the game didn’t look terrible in comparison to the other versions. They’ve learned a bit from Colors: Ultimate, it seems! =P (Really, though, they should just design the game from the ground up specifically for Switch as the primary platform from the beginning and then scale it upward for other consoles, not the other way around…)
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Not to bring contested theories outside of the containment thread but there is a possibility it was designed to fit a slightly more powerful Switch that Sega thought we were gonna get and then didn't 😅
 
This feels like a really smart use of resources. Reuse of assets etc. lets the majority of the team probably move on to early work on the sequel, whereas the more technical folks could focus on testing and play grounding concepts as well. I almost see this as a public early playtest for the next game, which is encouraging.

Even the Koko platforming sets added in update 2 are a clear path to update 3’s difficulty



Outstanding review / overview
 
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I haven't played Frontiers in a while and I'm hearing the new story is really tough. Am I going to be okay jumping into this with a foggy memory, or should I replay the game and level up my character to max stats before starting?
 
haloPrism said:
I haven't played Frontiers in a while and I'm hearing the new story is really tough. Am I going to be okay jumping into this with a foggy memory, or should I replay the game and level up my character to max stats before starting?
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for the most difficult parts of the new chapter, sonic's stats explicitly do not matter
 
Ugh. The update broke the game on integrated graphics, and so my replay on my PC version gets further delayed… It ran great before and now can barely get through the menus lol.
 
Area 3 Boss fight down.

That area was drab gray the most frustrating level design with all the 2D and linear paths, but also the most interesting with Tails story (personal fave and well done) and the cool underground stuff.

The boss fight for the area was tons of fun too. So freakin epic no matter the jank.

This is one of those games that I’m well aware is a 7, but I just adore.


First peek of area 4 and it’s… so weird they are just acting like it’s a new island lol.
 
Other than the new cyberspace stages I am having a miserable time.

These Getting Over It towers and that forced boss rush were already tedious enough, but now the final boss just keeps regenerating and I'm just not in the mood to figure out how to deal with it, as my patience is dead.

I'm glad I didn't spend money on this.
 
totofogo said:
Ugh. The update broke the game on integrated graphics, and so my replay on my PC version gets further delayed… It ran great before and now can barely get through the menus lol.
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patch better come soon

I don't really want to have to return to the Switch version to play the update...
 
So I was initially waiting to play through Final Horizon because I wanted to finish Sea of Stars first but now I'm kinda also waiting to see if Sega does any updates to make it a bit less kaizo after everything I'm hearing here and in other parts of the web 😅
 
Yeah I was looking to get back into this with the new update after stalling out last year, but the commentary about it being Sonic Unleashed DLC level difficulty has put me off trying it again. I can’t enjoy super difficult games as much as many do unfortunately
 
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chocolate_supra said:
So I was initially waiting to play through Final Horizon because I wanted to finish Sea of Stars first but now I'm kinda also waiting to see if Sega does any updates to make it a bit less kaizo after everything I'm hearing here and in other parts of the web 😅
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I finally got to the new content today and tbh have been having a blast in my first hour with it. Prior to the difficult content you get to explore around plenty with the new characters, I’m blown away by the scope of things.

Having different challenges layered over each other really makes the world design here work so much better. And the diversity of playstyle, even only having played as Amy so far, is so refreshing.
 
You can set the difficulty to Easy to make the towers—which I believe are supposed to be the hardest part of the update—MUCH more manageable, just so you know. I’ve been watching my partner play and they had to do that because at first they were playing on Hard and it’s just ridiculously unforgiving, lol. It’s not too bad on Easy, though, but still…not the greatest design, I feel, unfortunately.
 
Still waiting for the update to download (blame my shitty internet) but I can't wait to get back into it.
It's not a perfect game by any means, heck few if any of the 3D Sonic's are, but it recaptured the soul of the older games and bloody hell it's fun.
I struggle to think of a series in recent memory that jumped in quality between releases this hard.
 
Tye said:
You can set the difficulty to Easy to make the towers—which I believe are supposed to be the hardest part of the update—MUCH more manageable, just so you know. I’ve been watching my partner play and they had to do that because at first they were playing on Hard and it’s just ridiculously unforgiving, lol. It’s not too bad on Easy, though, but still…not the greatest design, I feel, unfortunately.
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The boss rush is much worse than (most) of the towers imo; they're more just obnoxious because there's zero checkpointing if you screw up even once. I did them on hard but my understanding is on easy they literally just let you skip most of the challenges? That doesn't seem very well balanced to me if the option is obnoxious tedium or just skipping what were elaborately designed vertical tower challenges. By comparison the boss rush trial even on easy is just a total nightmare and none of this update feels playtested all that much to me.

Yeah it's free so I can't be too mad but I don't even remember finding the hard mode dlc stuff for Unleashed this much of a total nightmare, and unlike that being an optional thing billed as being very difficult this DLC feels primed as the 'real' ending to the game. At most the new characters are fun to mess around with (Knuckles absolutely needs his climbing/gliding worked on though) and would serve as a fun blueprint for a sequel that integrates them better?
 
AstroOhHey said:
The boss rush is much worse than (most) of the towers imo; they're more just obnoxious because there's zero checkpointing if you screw up even once. I did them on hard but my understanding is on easy they literally just let you skip most of the challenges? That doesn't seem very well balanced to me if the option is obnoxious tedium or just skipping what were elaborately designed vertical tower challenges. By comparison the boss rush trial even on easy is just a total nightmare and none of this update feels playtested all that much to me.

Yeah it's free so I can't be too mad but I don't even remember finding the hard mode dlc stuff for Unleashed this much of a total nightmare, and unlike that being an optional thing billed as being very difficult this DLC feels primed as the 'real' ending to the game. At most the new characters are fun to mess around with (Knuckles absolutely needs his climbing/gliding worked on though) and would serve as a fun blueprint for a sequel that integrates them better?
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Yeah, it feels like, yet again, an overcorrection from Sonic Team attempting to respond to criticism; the base game was largely thought to be too easy, so they turned up the difficulty to a ridiculous degree here (despite making it an absolutely miserable, frustrating experience because of that). Much like how after Lost World bombed (which was mostly because it was on Wii U, sadly…) they totally ditched the new gameplay direction they started exploring (despite it showing a lot of promise) and went right back to the same boost gameplay with Forces, or like how they totally ditched having playable characters beyond Sonic after everybody memed the whole “Sonic’s shitty friends” thing (plus ‘06 being the catastrophe that it was due to the state it was released in surely contributed, too). And, of course, making the games not take themselves seriously anymore from Colors onward, which has only finally changed now with Frontiers (and Forces to a bit of a lesser extent).

That said, I’m very happy to finally have other characters be playable in a main Sonic game again, and hopefully this new story ends up being even better than the base game’s.
 
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Welp, I turned in my time with Amy way too soon without realizing I was going to. I hope I’ll get access back before the super tough content. Edit: ugh. Nope lol. But apparently you loop back to the characters after one cycle. Then unlock ability to switch.

Knuckles feels ok so far, if he’s the worst of the controls I’m relieved. I don’t mind the gliding, the only thing annoying me more so is the glitch when climbing corners to fall off. Be sure to hold the stick perfectly horizontal!

Edit: I like how the holographic look for the friends is kind of a nod to them being beta movesets lol
 
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totofogo said:
My own interpretation of it haha. The friends all have a holographic look to them per the games canon, but I interpret it as a nod from the devs saying “here’s a peek behind the curtain as we experiment for the next game, thanks for play testing”
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Oooooooh you mean beta movesets for the next game, where they'll all be playable from the beginning? Gotcha
 
And I made it to tails!

Wow, this is beyond my expectations in terms of scale. The island is jam packed and the overlap of different characters level design is so fun. Cyberstages next I assume, but I’m done for the weekend. I can’t wait for a sequel where you can hopefully character swap on demand, with more balance between sonic and the friends.

chocolate_supra said:
you mean beta movesets for the next game, where they'll all be playable from the beginning? Gotcha
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Eeexactly
 
I got really excited because I thought the first new Cyber Space level was a reskin of a Lost World level…but apparently, despite having a very similar design theme to a specific Lost World level, it’s just a remix of 1-4 from the base game? Damn, I would’ve loved if they slipped in some more levels from past games that were excluded from the base game like Lost World, Forces, Heroes, and Adventure.
 
Tye said:
I got really excited because I thought the first new Cyber Space level was a reskin of a Lost World level…but apparently, despite having a very similar design theme to a specific Lost World level, it’s just a remix of 1-4 from the base game? Damn, I would’ve loved if they slipped in some more levels from past games that were excluded from the base game like Lost World, Forces, Heroes, and Adventure.
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the cyberspace stages should really be considered all new, not just remixes (or at least, the geometry they do borrow are significantly rearranged enough that i'll fight that battle). they share some aesthetic choice and platforms but that one in particular has a wild amount of brand new mechanics and objects added that you're going way beyond the original bounds and layout of the level
 
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Tried the update over the weekend and I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of content they put in for free and having multiple playable characters again in a 3D Sonic is fantastic even if I had a couple of issues with Knuckles' gliding and homing attacks being on the same button as their regular attacks.
Unfortunately the difficulty of the update meant I dropped it at the Master King Koco trial. I just don't have the time to waste trying to get a near perfect run on a boss rush where if you fail you start over at the beginning again. I was already frustrated with the towers and having to re climb them from the beginning after falling down them and while easy mode does alleviate some of the frustration, the punishment for any mistake is just too time consuming for me when I have a massive backlog of stuff I would enjoy more.

It's a shame because I adored base game Frontiers to the point where it was the first 3D Sonic I S ranked every stage and I was really looking forward to the update and the new playable characters. At the very least though I have some great new music to listen to
 
Boyfriend said:
the cyberspace stages should really be considered all new, not just remixes (or at least, the geometry they do borrow are significantly rearranged enough that i'll fight that battle). they share some aesthetic choice and platforms but that one in particular has a wild amount of brand new mechanics and objects added that you're going way beyond the original bounds and layout of the level
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Yeah, I wouldn’t have even thought it was a remix of a base game level in any way if it wasn’t for having looked it up on Sonic wiki, lol. At first I was convinced that it was supposed to be based on Lost World’s Desert Ruins Zone 2 (AKA Honeycomb Highway) but I guess the level design isn’t really the same at all.
 
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Played the DLC until the Sonic part and think I'm gonna bail out. Amy felt pretty fun at first, but Knuckles and Tails are clunky and remind me of 06. The rest of the DLC is basically all the worst parts of Frontiers magnified. It's giving Sonic in unreal engine vibes, but this time it's kaizo.

I fear for the future of 3D Sonic if they're doubling down this open zone road.
 
First tower wasnt bad at all, but my first taste of a trial is enough to turn me away from this for now.

I’ll be revisiting whenever they fix the PC version for a full replay without the Switch graphics and frame rate!


Really positive review here. While a bit further than I go, I agree mostly that this is great if you meet it where it’s at contextually as a free DLC. Can’t wait to see where these ideas head with real custom assets budget and direction!

 
totofogo said:
First tower wasnt bad at all, but my first taste of a trial is enough to turn me away from this for now.

I’ll be revisiting whenever they fix the PC version for a full replay without the Switch graphics and frame rate!


Really positive review here. While a bit further than I go, I agree mostly that this is great if you meet it where it’s at contextually as a free DLC. Can’t wait to see where these ideas head with real custom assets budget and direction!

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Jon from GVG on the other hand did not enjoy it. I agree with his point that these characters feel incomplete, eg. Knuckles not measuring up to Sonic in combat, but again it goes back to expectations for me. I honestly expected the new characters to be segmented off in a "test" environment and maybe doing so would have set better expectations... but I can't help but be excited for what a game designed with them from the onset will look like.
 
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Okay, yeah, I now see what people mean about the boss rush. What the hell. This is just prohibitively difficult to beat even on Easy, and for no good reason. I shouldn’t have to feel like I’m literally speedrunning a game just to reach the end of new story content… Not only is it super frustrating and gives you hardly any room for error, but it also demands so much of your time, too, because you have to start over from the beginning every time you fail… How in the world did they think this was okay?? And I say this as someone who has a very high tolerance for what most people would consider “3D Sonic bullshit” but even I can’t excuse this.
 
BozPaggs said:
Still waiting for the update to download (blame my shitty internet) but I can't wait to get back into it.
It's not a perfect game by any means, heck few if any of the 3D Sonic's are, but it recaptured the soul of the older games and bloody hell it's fun.
I struggle to think of a series in recent memory that jumped in quality between releases this hard.
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I regret everything.
 
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